Power Kite Forum

Gin enters the monoskin world

B-Roc - 1-3-2018 at 01:01 PM

With the 4, 6, 9, 12m Shaman






video: https://www.ginkites.com/videos/products/

Product info: https://www.ginkites.com/product/shaman-snowkite-freeride/

And if history is an indicator of the future... it's probably not coming to America anytime soon :(

jeffnyc - 1-3-2018 at 04:11 PM

Do you know if they killed off the Eskimo? It's not listed on their site any more. That would be a shame.

Has anyone flown a Shaman yet? How does it compare to the Peak or the Long Star?

Was out with my 14m today, but unfortunately less than no wind... beach was pretty in all it's stillness, though. Calm before the storm tonight.

B-Roc - 1-3-2018 at 05:54 PM

I'm actually surprised they released a mono skin and wouldn't be surprised if the Eskimo line was dead. They've spent much more money on their tube kites and water side of the business than anything else and when Gin was closed/sold/bought they originally lost the rights to the Eskimo name but then re-obtained it. IMO, everything after the 3 series was a step backwards. That series only needed a minor tweak to the rear bridle or leaders and it was perfect. I do see they've incorporated some of the 4 series Eskimo in the Shaman. It looks super stable which is no surprise as Gin has always offered a solid canopy but we'll have to see what the Euros say. I have a contact in Germany who snow kites and has spent time demoing the new Gin gear as it comes out. I will ask if he's had any experience. I wish they had a US presence but they have all but abandoned this market. They were always an affordable, high performance alternative to Ozone for me but not any more given the import fees.

nate76 - 1-3-2018 at 07:57 PM

Ya, its too bad its so hard for some of these smaller companies to have a presence in the US. I think its good to have fresh minds and perspectives involved pushing the sport forward.

Some of the stuff I've been seeing with the Shaman looks like they made a pretty sweet kite. Take a look at this video:

https://vimeo.com/249196751


RedSky - 1-3-2018 at 09:29 PM

Look at the way it turns, end on end, no folding of the canopy. I can tell instinctively that this is a good kite.

jeffnyc - 1-4-2018 at 10:20 AM

I saw that too - those turns looked more like a FB. In this video (turn on CC if you don't speak french) https://vimeo.com/243502533 he talks about the wingtips being closed cell so they don't collapse. Novel idea. Add a little of that to the LE and you have a single surface water kite (ala Monjet). Born also did something to fix the flapping (I forget whether it was battens or bridles), and Peak markets the flapping as a feature (kidding!).


IFlyKites - 1-4-2018 at 11:35 AM

Flysurfer has some competition :o No wing flapping is definitely an upgrade along with the design.

Wonder how the lift is on the Shaman compared to the Peak?

Blitzhound - 1-4-2018 at 11:43 AM

When I first started flying the peak I did not like the flapping. I think that is because I did not understand it. I Buggy with my peak on a regular basis. By regular, I mean, I live two miles from the beach and Buggy weekly. Once you learn to control the flapping. It can be a great asset. It allows the wing to distort their by spilling the air pressure underneath. Essentially dropping off a majority of the load. BUT. You have to learn to control the flapping. With the Shaman being able to better maintain its shape I am curious if it is able to unload as much. After a little research they are the same AR and very similar PA. So it should be very similar in performance to a Peak. It will be interesting to see what people have to say as more of these hit the market.

jeffnyc - 1-4-2018 at 12:59 PM

I could also see the flapping being useful for feedback the same way a sailboat sail luffs.

Seems like the trend is trying to build a single surface that acts like a double surface. Less material and work, so less expensive (so far) - makes a lot of sense if you can get close to the performance of a double surface.

I'm super happy with the kites I have now, but the whole single surface thing sure is interesting. Back when I was hang gliding, single surface were pretty much relegated to beginners. I don't know if that's still true now, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case with these kites. I'm also looking forward to seeing regular joes riding these. The guys in the videos could fly a dumpster and make it look cool.

Windstruck - 1-4-2018 at 01:39 PM


Quote: Originally posted by jeffnyc  
I could also see the flapping being useful for feedback the same way a sailboat sail luffs.

Seems like the trend is trying to build a single surface that acts like a double surface. Less material and work, so less expensive (so far) - makes a lot of sense if you can get close to the performance of a double surface.

I'm super happy with the kites I have now, but the whole single surface thing sure is interesting. Back when I was hang gliding, single surface were pretty much relegated to beginners. I don't know if that's still true now, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case with these kites. I'm also looking forward to seeing regular joes riding these. The guys in the videos could fly a dumpster and make it look cool.


PKF members that know me and my postings know I'm one of the bedsheet chimps in the Monkey House. Where SS versus dual skin kites seem to shine in my book is primarily for three reasons. First, they are awesome (particularly in their large sizes) as low wind engines. They tend to get off the ground with minimal ground level wind and can be often be kept aloft during wind lulls with some creative flying more so than their size matched heavier cousins in the dual skin world. Second, they pack up smaller and lighter than size matched dual skin kites.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, they are just flat out way cooler than the more common dual skin kites. I mean, anybody can own and fly a dual skin kite, but it really takes someone special to own and fly SS. :moon:

abkayak - 1-4-2018 at 02:38 PM

lets stop this nonsense...
there is nothing inherently cool about a SS...i could go on but thats not like me
of course...always fly what you like, anything

that said...and me being mostly fb
i kinda never have my bar pulled in as much as that??? it was like the the whole ride ??
I'm not knocking anything here...jusayin, maybe I'm doing this all wrong??

Randy - 1-4-2018 at 06:02 PM

I just think all kites matter.


Windstruck - 1-4-2018 at 06:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
lets stop this nonsense...
there is nothing inherently cool about a SS...


I knew you would take this bait! The truth of the matter is I'm flat out just not tough enough to fly FB like you.

TEDWESLEY - 1-5-2018 at 01:32 PM

Hey guys, remember when the Peaks came out and we were all speculating on what would come next?
Well here they are. The gauntlet was thrown and technology responds with new and different.

Kober - 1-12-2018 at 02:03 AM

I probably should say something here ...... hmmmm... goog kite .... very good kite .....

Now , seriously , I am actually thinking about getting one or two for snowkiting trips , my friend call Gin and may be getting set instead of peaks . I will ask him what it was that help him with that decission .

jeffnyc - 2-11-2018 at 12:42 PM

So, some vids starting to trickle in... looks like a nice kite. Still no reviews that I've seen (at least not in english). Looking at the earlier designer video, he had designed a single surface paraglider and based it on that design.
https://vimeo.com/249509451

Snow:
https://vimeo.com/250159167

also:


Bug: (Gin distributor in Portugal)
https://vimeo.com/251995186

Water!: (This was around before, I think I missed it earlier)
https://vimeo.com/241235458
I wonder if the closed cell wingtips help with water relaunch... more than likely I'd assume you just don't want to drop it...

So no one on either side of the pond has pulled the trigger yet? :evil:

Kober - 2-15-2018 at 10:26 AM

I may be able to help if someone decide to get one ...

jeffnyc - 3-7-2018 at 12:52 PM

2 more Shaman videos (nicely done)

https://vimeo.com/257915878

https://vimeo.com/250622285

Bladerunner - 3-7-2018 at 02:38 PM

That is about the best float I have seen with a SS kite.

Do you think it is the kite or rider that is special?

B-Roc - 3-7-2018 at 08:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
That is about the best float I have seen with a SS kite.

Do you think it is the kite or rider that is special?


I think it is neither but simply the conditions and riding down a slope where the wind is blowing up. The float is impressive but there are other times in the videos where they hit a lip or drop off a small ridge with zero float or pop.

To me it seems to be the most impressive monoskin but none seem to be able to touch a traditional twinskin foil for jumping.

skimtwashington - 3-7-2018 at 08:49 PM

Super nice stuff...

Love the synchronization @ 1:47 in first video.

The snow and terrain look heavenly. It's adding another dimension to snow kiting when you ascend and descend...and the ultimate -for me, not yet achieved. Good example of using kite to ascend a ridge.

Nothing dreamier than the gentle floats downhill.

One might also put the kite away to have just an untethered downhill.

utahtami - 3-7-2018 at 09:09 PM

6m Shaman with iced bar on its swift way to me!

jeffnyc - 3-7-2018 at 10:24 PM

Cool Tami - be great to hear what you think of it. What flavor did you get? :)

Is the shipping/taxes painful, or how did you deal with that?

utahtami - 3-7-2018 at 10:39 PM

The 6m is lime flavored but I thought kiwi sounds better. Haven't received it yet to find out about VAT or customs. Stay tuned.

B-Roc - 3-8-2018 at 02:13 PM

So you bought directly from Gin? Please do let us know the final cost and post up a review when you can. I know I had some of the very first Yeti's to make it to America so glad to see someone getting a Shaman!!

Bladerunner - 3-8-2018 at 04:21 PM

I agree that the guy in the video was not floating like the Flysurfers and LEI under the same conditions. I was kind of wondering how much was his skill and how much was simply the perfect location. Without matching the float from other back country specific kites I wonder how popular SS will ever get?

Please do give us a write up Tami.


utahtami - 3-8-2018 at 05:28 PM

I did buy direct from Gin in Switzerland. They generously covered the shipping. And I can expect to pay VAT and Customs upon delivery. I could have paid with an international money transfer to them but my bank charges $45. I went with PayPal that charged $43 but offers me some protection. So, with iced bar and 6m it was $1220. I was tempted to get the whole quiver and save 10% but I let the fever pass and just bought the one kite. The Peak3 was not at all to my liking. That made me a bit more cautious. I think the Peak2s have more of a flapping issue than the original Peaks, but more depower as well. It seems the cells on the end of the Shaman might provide the perfect solution. The depower bar range on the Shaman is 55cm which is less than the Peak2 but more than the Peak. That seems acceptable for my short reach. And who doesn't like a new kite!

utahtami - 3-10-2018 at 02:08 PM

I purchased the Shaman online Tuesday before they opened. The kite was delivered Friday noon. How did they do that!
Not expecting the kite that soon I had it delivered to Utah while I am in Colorado. However I am going to pick up the kite on my way to Jackson Hole area for kite skiing next week. There were NO additional charges for the kite ref. customs or taxes.

jeffnyc - 3-14-2018 at 11:02 AM



12m Shaman crossing from Switzerland to Italy (that looks fun!). He tests out the safety as well. Turn on the cc for english translations.

TEDWESLEY - 3-14-2018 at 11:21 AM

Whew, and just when I was wondering WHAT'S NEXT !!!

B-Roc - 3-14-2018 at 11:37 AM

Someone better warn the Italians - looks like a handful of Swiss ski bums are making illegal border crossings :o ;)

jeffnyc - 3-14-2018 at 01:37 PM

Pretty sure he's Czech (I see a lot of carons in the text)... someone warn the entire EU!

Kober - 3-17-2018 at 11:20 AM

Looking at this post and the kite makes me wonder if I can manage to find a reason and money to get a set ..... grrrrr.... dammm kites ... always tempting with new kite smell ...

utahtami .... yehh .. I usually did get my kites 3 days later with DHL express ...
customs and duty fees if any come in mail few days later and if they are i payd anything form $40-$80 ....


utahtami - 3-17-2018 at 06:47 PM

I hate to report - I love the Shaman!
Today was the third day in a row kite skiing Togwotee Pass north of Jackson Hole area. (As far as I'm concerned it is so much nicer than Skyline.)
The previous 2 days I was out on the 12m Peak2. Today was my first chance to use the 6m Shaman. My partner in crime was on the Peak 6m. I consider that to be the sweetest of Peaks. It's stabile, not flappy, quite responsive.
The 6m Shaman was even nicer. I would estimate a little more depower, no flap, and an effective trim adjustment. (Peak2s have the trim but don't respond well if you trim them in more than a couple inches.) Relaunching out of the "taco" (sides folded in) and "burrito" (doubling up lengthwise) configurations went well. The wind was typical mountain gusts.
I was satisfied with the Gin iced bar. I am happy with the ease of wrapping up the Peaks due to the minimalist approach of no pads, no brake strap, etc. Obviously there are advantages to those extras.
The material of the kite feels paper thin. I think this gives it a light wind advantage over the Peak. The majority of the length of the lines are not color coded. Maybe this isn't much of an issue. I never used the 5th line so I can't comment on it. I like the looks of the Shaman.
Windstruck, don't you think I need a whole quiver?

Windstruck - 3-18-2018 at 06:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by utahtami  


Windstruck, don't you think I need a whole quiver?



Never met a quiver I didn't like! :lol:

Very pleased that you have become so enamored with the new Gin SS offerings. Makes me happy to know you are on a kite that works for you and that the SS world continues to evolve and seemingly improve.

Now, about that quiver. With there now but scant few days left before IBX might I suggest you hold off on the quiver until you've had a chance to try (if you'd like) or at least see my Born-Kite LS2s in action? They too represent nice incremental improvements over the Peaks. Hate to have you pull such a big trigger and then find yourself in raptured kite envy at Ivanpah! :karate:

Bladerunner - 3-19-2018 at 05:29 PM

I think that 3.5m LS2 was the kite that really caught my attention. The best behaved kite I have seen in nuking winds. It flies like a grown up when all the little 1.5 / 2.5m kites are zipping around like 4 year olds on Red Bull.

If by any chance you find the top end of your 6m there is a reasonable option.

utahtami - 3-24-2018 at 08:57 AM

I did receive a bill from FedEx for $40. I subsequently used the 5th line once and was quite disappointed.

B-Roc - 3-24-2018 at 05:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by utahtami  
I subsequently used the 5th line once and was quite disappointed.


Care to elaborate on that statement?

utahtami - 3-26-2018 at 11:19 AM

I kite skiied on the Shaman 3 days but only used the 5th line once. To get a more thorough feel for it I went to the park and kite buggyed with it yesterday expressly to use the 5th line. When the wind was light to moderate it worked great. When the wind was howling several times it tangled up the kite making relaunch impossible, a couple more times it didn't fully depower the kite - possibly because it tangled up lines. I naively was expecting something like Ozone's re-ride system where I could just pull in the line a few feet and have the kite sit there all docile.

Windstruck - 3-26-2018 at 11:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by utahtami  
I kite skiied on the Shaman 3 days but only used the 5th line once. To get a more thorough feel for it I went to the park and kite buggyed with it yesterday expressly to use the 5th line. When the wind was light to moderate it worked great. When the wind was howling several times it tangled up the kite making relaunch impossible, a couple more times it didn't fully depower the kite - possibly because it tangled up lines. I naively was expecting something like Ozone's re-ride system where I could just pull in the line a few feet and have the kite sit there all docile.


I've had the same (disappointing) reaction to the dedicated 5th line safety on the Born-Kite LS2s. Like Tami, I truly appreciated having the 5th Re-Ride line on my Ozone kites for snow kiting while I still owned them. I used them numerous times, either simply to rest (hand pulling the fifth line in a few yards from the metal ring in the chicken loop) or when I needed to pop the chicken loop for safety reasons. On the Born-Kite LS2s the kite will collapse and come to the ground but it won't necessarily stay untangled. There is so much bridling on a SS, and the kite without pressure on the lines to give it shape can easily fold onto itself in all sorts of undesirable ways. The thing is, once a SS is loose from its tight tethering it flags out with really virtually no pull anyway so a 5th line system may just be overkill on a SS foil.

In retrospect I probably could have simplified matters and simply gone with a single Born-Kite bar with a standard 4.5 line flag out system and not had the fifth line business built into my kites. I still may go that way if I end up with lots of time on my hands and a desire to fiddle with my lines. Note: that day may never come...

I too had my 5th line get caught up with my other four primary lines and cause me some headaches. Live and learn...

wilkinsbud - 11-18-2018 at 02:26 PM

made an account to contribute to this thread! but i found a place that sells gin stuff (including the shaman) online in $USD. i bought a 6m shaman from them about a month ago pretty smooothly. i don't know if its cool to say it explicitly, but you can just google "gin shaman for sale" and it'll be like the 3rd link.

utahtami - 11-18-2018 at 04:08 PM

Nice find, Wilkinsbud!

jeffnyc - 11-18-2018 at 04:39 PM

I don't think there's any rule about that here? Huh - just looked, guess there is a rule about posting store links.
Anyway, looks like they're in Jupiter, Fla. They stock some interesting brands... including Gin, Ten, Zeeko. I would imagine everyone else on the coast has a lock on the other major brands, or they're just trying to differentiate... Good to finally see some representation, hope they take off. Going to be tough now that Peak and Born have poofy tips.