Power Kite Forum

General Flysurfer Peak kite discussion

 Pages:  1    3  ..  5

Windstruck - 7-18-2015 at 06:01 AM

Let me start with a shout out to Jason (3shot) who originated a kite-line specific thread a couple of days ago for the Born-Kites. I loved the idea and thought that the Flysurfer Peak series could use some similar love. Jason's thread can be found here:

Quote:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30721


It seems that Peaks come up a lot in threads about what sort of kites folks should think about buying when vacillating between FB and DP. Personally, my 12M Peak2 has saved more buggy sessions this summer than I care to count. Time after time I head out with about a half dozen kites in the back of my ride, sometimes fitfully launching one or two in what is inevitably light and variable winds, only to pack them all up and pull out my trusty P2! I long for the days where I am besieged with enough steady wind to allow me to work through my entire quiver, but lately it's been my 12M P2 or bust.

Something I thought I'd share in this opening post is a positive experience I had yesterday. I had recently purchased and installed a simple stall handle / break crossover strap for $25 (thanks Chris!):

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/line-sets.html

One of these came standard with my PL Lynx DP set up and I really missed not having it on my P2 rigging.

I was buggying yesterday with my 12M P2 in what became increasingly strong and gusty winds right before a storm came in. It was far and away the most wind I had flown this kite in and I was trimmed in at the clem-cleat adjuster, sheeting like crazy, and flying the kite high in the window just to keep it from yanking me out of my buggy. A big bolt of lightening flashed and I knew I needed to pack up in a hurry (no Ben Franklin I)!

Getting a big kite down alone in high winds isn't the simplest of tasks as we all know. Once out of my buggy and standing still the kite pretty much auto-zenithed and was pulling me upward pretty hard. What the heck I thought, let's give this a go! I pulled the crossover line hard towards me and son of a gun, my kite curtsied like a lady and backed straight down all the way to the ground. I couldn't believe how well behaved she was! I hooked the crossover strap onto my buggy and she stayed pinned to the ground. I folded her up that way, straight downwind, with my three gravel bags to keep things in line. This session wrap up went so much better than expected!

Needless to say, I'm suggesting folks consider rigging their P2s (not sure about P1s as I've never flown one) with one of these crossover straps. This was the most graceful landing I had ever experienced in high winds with this kite so I was thrilled. The crossover strap also worked fantastically well for a reverse launch, sending her about 30 feet into the air before I let go and swung her around.

Hail the Peak! :yes:

dangerdan - 7-18-2015 at 07:32 AM

I'm still new to some of the language used on this forum. I understand the concept of this brake cross over strap but cant visualize how to connect it. A picture is worth a thousand words.

bobalooie57 - 7-18-2015 at 08:06 AM

If you run a strap, or cord from one brake line to the other, at the end if the pig tails (where the brake lines attach to the lines coming off the bar) you will have a way to (by pulling on the center of the strap) back the kite down, or, when LE is down, pull strap to get the kite to re-launch.

Windstruck - 7-18-2015 at 08:41 AM

Dangerdan - I will post a picture later today, but bobalooie is right on the mark.

Windstruck - 7-18-2015 at 07:23 PM

Here is a photo of the cross strap in place on the Peak2 rigging. Since the picture was taken I tied an overhand know in the Pigtails right above the cross strap so that it wouldn't sneak up the brake lines and get out of reach.

image1 (4).JPG - 162kB

robinsonpr - 7-19-2015 at 01:04 AM

Steve I am jealous of your 12m Peak! I have a 6m Peak 1 which is by far my most used kite, but I do need a bigger size for lighter wind.

The only thing putting me off a bigger Peak 2 is reading through the "tip tucking" threads. It sounds like they need to be perfectly tuned to minimise this phenomenon, which puts me off a bit.

Was thinking of picking up a used 9m Peak 1 but I do like the sound of the Peak 2 bar with the cleat. Do you find you use the trim much other than this high wind experience you just had? How high were the winds by the way?

The brake crossover...Was thinking of putting one on my Peak 1. At the moment if I want to back it down I just grab the brake lines by the balls, one in each hand (!). It is a bit daunting though, especially in high winds. I might find it easier with a crossover.

Ever tried stall landing it but from the very edge of the window at 3 or 9 o'clock?

Windstruck - 7-19-2015 at 03:29 AM

Robinsonpr - yes, the dreaded "tip tuck". I do get it now and then. I recently pulled back the foam floaters and moved the lines up (shorter) one knot which seemed to help. I bought my P2 used from Chris (feyd) over a Hardwater. It had been one of his demos. He seems to have far and away the most experience of anyone chirping in on PKF when it comes to the Peaks. He and I discussed tip tuck (it was my principle concern too) and he told me he had dialed the kite in before I was getting it so it shouldn't be too much of an issue. I bring that up because I don't know what these kites are like "stock" so to speak. What he also told me, and this turned out to be completely true, is that you will experience fewer tip tucks once you get some hours with the kite. Hard to tell what I'm doing different, but tip tuck went from being a regular occurrence (a couple of times per session) when I first got the kite to a relative rarity now (most sessions have no tip tuck). Bottom line, for all the positives these kites have, I for one would not make tip tuck a show stopper. If you ever come across the "perfect" kite, please do your dear friends here on PKF a solid and let us all know about it! :thumbup:

I don't know how high the winds were in the episode I described above when I was sheeting out and trimming up. A storm was coming in as I said. When I was unpacking from my car the winds were light and variable (4-8 knots). My session began with just barely enough wind to get the buggy moving. With the storm clouds moving in the winds went up considerably. Purely a guess here, but I'd say up to 20 knots. I'm surprised I wasn't yanked into an OBE with a couple of the gusts, but it seems that maybe I'm getting the hang of this DP thing (or maybe luck is just as useful as skill in these settings).

Glad to hear you are willing to, err, "take matters into your own hands" when backing down the kite. I'm not sure I'd want both hands off the bar at times like that. I suspect you were sweating that one a bit.

I have tried stall landing at the edges. I can land with success, but my problem comes with the kite tumbling once it is one ground before I can secure it with sand bags. I suspect I'll be backing the kite down with the cross over strap more than stall landing at the edges in high winds.

robinsonpr - 7-19-2015 at 06:16 AM

Maybe pilot skill comes into play some with the tip tuck? As in keeping the kite powered up and not giving the tips that opportunity to collapse? Maybe you are just naturally doing something slightl different with experience!

Still very torn between the 9 and the 12 (aswell as the 1 vs 2). I know there have been other threads on this subject!

Windstruck - 7-19-2015 at 04:08 PM

Next chapter - 5m line extensions! To further combat the low-wind summer blues I recently installed some 5m line extensions on my 12m P2, also courtesy of Chris over at Hardwater:

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/line-sets.html

Lines cost me $75. According to Chris, he feels that this upgrade was akin to upgrading my 12m to a (non-existent) 14m P2!

A couple of impressions. First, as advertised the longer lines results in more power. I've gotten some pretty good speed on grass with my BigFoot in pretty marginal conditions. Big Plus. Second, the extensions made an already slow turning kite even slower. I'd say the proportional gain in power was directly traded off for this decrease in swiftiness. What ever is the exact opposite of "zippy" now describes my kite. There's no free lunch. Small Minus. Third, the front lines and brake lines can get sort of stuck together where the 5m extension lines attached to the main lines. There are lark head knots, little tags indicating what lines each are, and the lines get thick and flat where they terminate. They don't get tangled but it bothers me to look up and see them stuck together like that (should be about 2 feet apart at that point). Vigorous shakes of the bar usually breaks them free. I'm not sure if this affects how the pulley system works. Small Minus. Finally, the longer lines make me think more about where I'm turning around on the soccer fields I've been riding on as of late. The extra distance has the kite arcing over stuff I wouldn't want to crash it down into when I'm making my turns if I go to the ends of the runs. Risky, but heck, live on the edge. Very Small Minus.

So... all in all this was a worthwhile upgrade and something I'd recommend if you are trying to eek out some more power in week summer conditions.

robinsonpr - 7-20-2015 at 01:00 PM

I've got an old set of extensions, they are only 3m long though. I might give them a go on my 6m Peak and see if that eeks me out a bit more power!!

Windstruck - 7-20-2015 at 01:11 PM

It's all deadly! Not sure how much 3m will do but it can't reduce the power. In another thread about Born Kites ( http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30721 ) we recently discussed eeking more power out of my 8.5m NS3. John Holgate suggested increasing length by 50-100% (out to 30-40m; stock being 20m). I do notice a difference with the 5m extensions but as I detailed there are pluses and minuses. No free lunch, but the experiment is one far cry cheaper than new larger kites. Have you noticed that kites for some reason get more expensive when the wind dies down? You'd think it would be the other way around... :mad:

robinsonpr - 7-20-2015 at 01:31 PM

Yeah I've been looking at the prices of a new 12m Peak 2 but it's just way out of my price range at the moment having recently bought a new Access and that beast of a buggy!!

Windstruck - 7-20-2015 at 01:50 PM

I hear you brotha! That new buggy is bad assed!! Did you get the rear axle thing worked out? It's great how the whole PKF family descended on your thread to solve the problem. Lots of engineer cooks in that kitchen! I choke on the prices of the new kites too, most particularly the big ones. Say your prayers that you never get the kitesurfing bug; have you seen those prices??? I bought my 12m P2 used from Chris (feyd) at Hardwater. It was one of his demos and was in great shape. Who knows, maybe he has another one? You could always flip him a U2U. Great guy to deal with. I appreciate that we are all stateside (shipping, our accents, etc.).

3shot - 7-28-2015 at 11:51 AM

I just realized I'll be able to play in this thread too :D

robinsonpr - 7-28-2015 at 12:05 PM

I've got a bit of a dilemma. I fancy a bigger Peak for low wind, to compliment my 6m.

I've been waiting around for a used 12m but I can't see one coming up in the UK anytime soon.

However I've got the chance of a new 9m Peak 1 at a fairly good price (about 60% of the price of a new 12m Peak 2). It's tempting, but if I get it I don't want to regret it and wish I'd got a 12m Peak 2.

Guessing there will be quite a bit of overlap between my 6m and a 9m.

And my new buggy is really heavy, I'd probably be glad of that extra bit of grunt a 12m would give me.

Thoughts?

3shot - 7-28-2015 at 01:52 PM

Yes. Pass on the 9 and send me the seller info! :evil::evil::evil:
Lmao

Windstruck - 7-28-2015 at 02:56 PM

Robinson - The P2's have so much depower that I'm afraid there would be quite a bit of overlap between the 6m and 9m Peaks. One of the things that happened when Flysurfer went to the 2nd gen for the Peaks is they added a cleat to the line system for trimming. I certainly take advantage of that feature in higher winds on my 12m P2, doing a combination of trimming in at the cleat and sheeting out at the bar. You can shed a huge amount of wind that way giving the 12m very impressive higher wind range. For lower wind you aren't going to be able to come close to the 12m, particularly with a heavier buggy IMHO.

I know it is more bucks, but if you ask me an ideal combo would be two Peaks, the 6m and 12m. I'm trying as we speak to get hold of a 6m P2 to do just that.

3shot - 7-28-2015 at 05:47 PM

I cant wait to fly my Peak!!!!!!!!

robinsonpr - 7-29-2015 at 12:01 AM

3shot - how long till you get it!? Looking forward to hearing your write up! The wind range on these things is amazing. Even in fairly low winds down to about 12mph I can cruise around on grass with my 6m, sometimes looping it if needs be, it packs quite a punch per square metre! The quoted "max" from FS on the 6m is 20 knots. It does really pull hard in those winds but I've had mine out in 25mph and with all that depower you can still stay safe. Super quick setup and pack down are an added bonus!

Crying out for a larger size to fill that 8-13mph range during these summer months. Sadly I think Steve is right and I'll be better off with a 12m. I'm gonna pass on that 9m Peak 1 :(

3shot - 7-29-2015 at 03:44 AM

Mine should be here tomorrow.

Windstruck - 7-29-2015 at 05:31 AM

Sad but likely true. With the sick range of depow these buggers have I just think you'll be overlapping a lot at 9m and not getting the low end you are seeking without flying the 12m. I suspect a well trimmed in / sheeted out 6m would have somewhat comparable grunt to a non-trimmed / non-sheeted 9m. :(

3shot - 7-29-2015 at 12:16 PM

Christmas in July. Literally..:D

3shot - 7-30-2015 at 04:03 PM

Just received my 6m Peak!!
Wow!!
Damn this is one sweet kite.



Yes. I've had a few beers from excitement. Yes, I do need a shave.....

Windstruck - 7-30-2015 at 04:08 PM

Dang Jason, you are one sexy beast! :lol:

If we were tuned to our usual channel I'd be cracking about that shot being Born Porn. I'm just thankful that you didn't go all Playgirl Burt Reynolds on us. That could have been a haunting visual to shake. :o

TEDWESLEY - 7-30-2015 at 04:27 PM

I have a 6m P1 and the 12m & 4m P2 and have had time in the seat with
the 6m & 12m. The 4m has only been flown static as we don't have the wind in the summer
and it's new. I agree with Windstruck . The 6m & 12m are an almost complete quiver if you fly in the normal
wind ranges. I don't worry about the upper range on the 12m, by the time you're in the middle of its range,
the 6m is pulling real well. I've flown the 6m in 30+ gusts on skis. It starts to pull well in 7-8, and loves 10-20.
I've flown the 12m in 15-17 with no problem. It starts pulling 4-5, flying static 2.5-3.5. I got the 4m to be able to
cruise in 20+ without flying on the edge. It's fairly zippy as well.

Holly gave me the 4m for my birthday along with a new helmet.
Go fast
Crash softly
Do over

TEDWESLEY - 7-30-2015 at 04:30 PM

You gonna look like a million bucks in that!

Windstruck - 7-30-2015 at 04:42 PM

Ted - super cool to hear from you with real life experience regarding wind ranges and overlap of the various Peaks. My reasoning had be purely hypothetical having never flown the small peaks. Chris (feyd) also has a lot of experience with these Peaks and has made similar observations.

Great timing on your thread comment too because Paul (robinsonpr) and I had just been discussing this whole wind range overlap over U2U. He's a devoted 6m guy looking to extend his light wind range in the Peaks, and I'm in turn loving my 12m but preparing for winter with wanting to pick up a 6m Peak 2. I'd been thinking he should go for the 12m and I think your post confirms those thoughts.


ssayre - 7-30-2015 at 04:57 PM

Congrats on the new to you Peak Jason! Looking forward to what you think of it.

Ted, I'm really jealous of the 4m peak you have. I think that would make a really nice street kite. You basically step down a size on asphalt so the 6m peak is my preferred light wind kite for longboard. The 4 meter would be a nice change of pace to the stars for moderate wind on pavement. I would very rarely get the wind for buggy on grass for a 4 meter I would suspect.

3shot - 7-30-2015 at 05:14 PM

Lol Steve. A couple more beers and my wife might be getting a "Burt Reynolds". :lol:

Thanks Sean. I could not believe my eyes when I picked up the box just how lite the kite is. At first before I opened it I was thinking something must have been left out!!

Ted. That 4m would have been nice to have this past JIBE during sandmageddon. Watching you work that 6m up and down the beach as far as I could see was impressive!


robinsonpr - 7-31-2015 at 07:10 AM

Yeah nice one Ted for the comments on the 6 + 12 quiver. I've been deliberating as I was considering a 9m Peak 1 to go with my 6m, but I think I need to go 6 + 12 :)

TEDWESLEY - 7-31-2015 at 03:52 PM

ssayer- the 4m would work well as it is very controllable a lot more like the small FB foils in turn speed, but with full depower. It should be
real zippy on short lines.
Jason- sandgeddon was one of the reasons I got the 4m. We get that kind of wind here mostly in the winter on the lakes snowkiting. I'm
pretty sure it will be flyable in any wind that I'd knowingly go out in. The 6m did well that day but flying beyond the edge takes too much
attention. You're going to love the 6m........ Just ran out to the van to make sure Holly hadn't sent mine to Amanda for you to roll around in.


3shot - 7-31-2015 at 09:51 PM

Lol Ted. I just had to roll around it. I couldn't control myself. I bet Holly got a kick out of that. Man I am so stoked to have a Flysurfer. Single skin at that!! I should fall right into it from flying my Nasa Stars. Hope so anyway.

robinsonpr - 7-31-2015 at 11:50 PM

Review!
Review!
Review!

3shot - 8-1-2015 at 08:09 AM

I need.....

Wind!
Wind!
Wind!

TEDWESLEY - 8-1-2015 at 06:50 PM

Had the same problem. Had good wind early - the soccer fields were all in use. Went back 2hrs. later
The people were gone and so was the wind
DRAT!

ssayre - 8-2-2015 at 06:19 AM

Peak Porn. We had a beautiful day yesterday. Only light wind but enough to switch my short lines for long ones and test fly


Windstruck - 8-2-2015 at 06:22 AM

Sean - that is a work of art!!! Beautiful kite. You've got to be stoked. Can you please take a look at the post I just put up on inserting photos? You just did exactly what I want to do! :thumbup:

ssayre - 8-2-2015 at 06:30 AM

Steve it took me 2 years to figure it out so you'll have to wait ;)

I tried a hundred different ways and the only way I could get it to work was to do what 1oldkid told me to do which was use photo bucket. I created an account, then you upload photos. Once photos are uploaded you click on the desired picture, then, to the right of the picture click on IMG. When you do that it will say copied. I then right click in my post on pkf and paste the link. That's it, easy. For whatever reason copying and pasting from iphoto or other online accounts haven't worked for me but photobucket seemed to be the magic ticket

Windstruck - 8-2-2015 at 06:34 AM

Sounds good! I know there is an insert photo butto, but it asks for a URL so what you are making total sense. Thanks buddy; I'll play around with it. :thumbup:

3shot - 8-2-2015 at 06:45 AM

PEAK PORN!!!!!!
Jealous.......

0 gusting 5 again today..

Heat index of 105 today. Maybe I can float my Peak on thermals..:(

ssayre - 8-2-2015 at 06:45 AM

Just in case anyone needs or wants to change lines on a peak 1 and they don't pay attention when separating the front line from the fls line as I did, here is what flysurfer sent me. This is a critical connection point for a few reasons and needs to be right. I sent 2 emails, one to flysurferusa and one to the german flysurfer. They each emailed me a different way, so after more research, the designer of the kite himself sent me this method and said the other method was wrong.








3shot - 8-2-2015 at 06:51 AM

Thanks!!!!!!

ssayre - 8-2-2015 at 07:00 AM

Jason, hopefully some of this pleasant weather is heading your way. We just got through a high humidity now wind week up here.

3shot - 8-2-2015 at 07:58 AM

Hope so. Hell, I just want to static fly it at this point.

robinsonpr - 8-3-2015 at 04:56 AM

Woohoo, ex-demo 12m Peak II en route!!!! :cool:

Windstruck - 8-4-2015 at 07:56 AM

Flysurfer 6m P2 secured. Let's rock this joint!!!!


3shot - 8-4-2015 at 05:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
Flysurfer 6m P2 secured. Let's rock this joint!!!!



Funny I pictured you doing the Saturday Night Fever :dunno:

Congrats!!




Windstruck - 8-4-2015 at 05:41 PM

I like the way you're thinking Jason! Carey has nothing over Travolta on the dance floor, but then again, Carey got to dance with Cameron Diaz and that can't be a bad thing! :D

Windstruck - 8-6-2015 at 07:03 PM

Got my new 6m P2 in the mail today from Chris (feyd). It was in spectacular shape as would be expected coming from him. New kite curse; there wasn't enough wind for a dandelion to bend. I stood all suited up with the bar in my hands waiting for 45 minutes while little hints of a breeze would come by and then sputter out. I'll get pictures and action videos posted once it is up in the air.

Beautiful colors! Yellow with touches of black. The yellow reminded me of the old Lange ski boots if anybody remembers those.

3shot - 8-7-2015 at 04:56 PM

Congrats on the new skin Steve. Not flown mine yet either. I did get my brake strap together though.

Windstruck - 8-7-2015 at 08:02 PM

Some wind kicked up today somewhat unexpectedly ahead of a great thunderstorm and I got my new 6m P2 up in the air! This was the very first time I ever flew this kite and I've definitely got some work to do before I'm smooth with it. There was barely enough wind for it; I would have preferred to have my 12m up but I really wanted to try the new one out!


ssayre - 8-8-2015 at 03:04 AM

Glad you got the 6m flying. I need about 12mph+ before I consider using mine but I feel comfortable with it up to low 20's

Windstruck - 8-8-2015 at 03:11 AM

This video loaded after mine on youtube. Dude is sick in the head to be on ice that thin :o :puzzled: :crazy:


Windstruck - 8-8-2015 at 05:23 AM

Sean - I'm with you brotha. Way too little wind for a proper voyage. I just wanted to take my new stallion out for a little trot! :P

ssayre - 8-8-2015 at 05:41 AM

Set up is great with these. Unwind and launch. It would be nice to acquire a bar and lines for all of the stars so they are all ready to go. The only reason I don't is because I'm switching between long and short lines. So in a perfect world I would need 2 complete sets of of nasa stars with both long and short lines. Not likely to happen :)

TEDWESLEY - 8-8-2015 at 06:33 AM

Is there a point system for running down other "sportsmen" using the field ?
The ebb and flow of people using the recreation fields is amazing.

3shot - 8-8-2015 at 07:04 AM

Like I said on the Born thread, I really like your vids bro. The music sets the fun!! Damn I cant wait to fly my Peak. Another weekend of NW winds here so no go at my soccer fields. Last weekend was no wind... Getting really old seeing Pink Betty sitting in the corner...

Glad you got to fly your new baby!! Looks good. :thumbup:


Windstruck - 8-8-2015 at 07:18 AM

Jason - glad you liked the music! My son is home from college this summer. He walked by me last night while I was working on these videos and said "Dad, why are you always putting that cheesy jazz on your videos?" :lol::lol:

Ted - most certainly extra points for running down stage extras! :P What you don't hear on the video is me yelling "Incoming!" and the kid shouting "That is SO COOL!" He had been playing soccer by himself as the only other person on the fields. He stood rock still for about 15 minutes with his jaw on the ground watching me cruise back and forth. Fan-boy! :D

3shot - 8-8-2015 at 07:36 AM

We really need "like" buttons in this forum.....

Were you able to find the kite only or complete? I see the landing strap on the 6m too :thumbup: :thumbup:

Windstruck - 8-8-2015 at 07:16 PM

Peak fans: here is a Peak 2 6.0m vs 12.0m face-off!

I ended up having great winds today, pretty steady at 12+ mph with a lot of 15+ mph mixed in with even a couple of 20 mph gusts for good measure.

I flew my two P2s back to back to compare the two of them. I'd say that the 6.0m was at mildly under powered when the winds were under 15 mph and the 12.0m was mildly over powered when the winds got stronger than that. The behavior of the two kites are very different from each other as I hope the video demonstrates. I haven't taken a tape measure to the bars, but the bigger kite's bar is quite a bit longer than its little brother.

The 6 is highly maneuverable and responds really well to pilot input. I liken it to a turbo charged 4 cylinder rice burner. Tons of power build up in steep fast dives. The 12, on the other hand, is just an all-American muscle car with a big bored-out V8. Tons of fun to fly both! :lol:

Still a lot to learn on my part to control these two optimally but I was way better on the 6m today than yesterday so I'm on the way up the learning curve. It took some serious sheeting out and upwind turning to scrub speed before the turn with the 12m today. Amazing depow!!! :thumbup::thumbup:




3shot - 8-9-2015 at 07:12 AM

Excellent video Steve!!!!!
That a great buggy spot bud!
So each Peak has its own bar length?
I must say I'm pretty impressed that one can fly a 6m and a 12m in the same wind. Amazing depower it looks like!!

Windstruck - 8-9-2015 at 08:39 AM

Jason - you asked if I got my 6m kite-only or RTF.

RTF. Glad for that too because now I see that the bars are quite different in size. I wouldn't have wanted to try controlling the 6m from the 12m bar; way too much pilot input.

3shot - 8-9-2015 at 08:44 AM

Cool Steve. Glad to see Flysurfer proportioning the bars to the kites!!!

Windstruck - 8-9-2015 at 08:55 AM

Not sure how many different bars they offer for the P2s. Maybe just large and small? I'd take a wider bar if I could get one for the 12m for turning purposes. Compared to the 6m it turns like a Mississippi River Barge. Of course too wide a bar would have its own issues. Not a biggie, but I have to be concious of the bar length when turning on the buggy and bringing the bar across my body. If I've got my GoPro mounted on the up tube for glorified selfie shots I have to be careful not to hit it coming across. :)

John Holgate - 8-9-2015 at 03:33 PM

Nice one, Steve. How are you finding the upwind ability of the Peaks v NS3's ?

Windstruck - 8-9-2015 at 04:56 PM

John, I haven't really gone head to head yet with, say, 4.0m NS3 vs 6.0 P2 but my gist so far is that the Peaks have better upwind capability. Someday when the wind is right I'll purposefully do a head to head NS3 vs P2.

I've got a 10.0 NS3 on order from Steffen. On a light wind day I'd like to try this kite vs my 12m P2.

Yesterday with strong winds for the 12m P2 I was able to get some serious upwind tacks. Not going fast of course but I wasn't rushed; rather just trying to eat up some vertical to get back up to the upper corner of the field. I'd say I was about 20 deg short of dead upwind.

The day before I worked my way upwind with my 8.5m NS3 but it took me about 15 tacks to eat up the length of a soccer field (short tacks the width of a soccer field).

I have high hopes that the LongStar will improve on this, not to mention the fabled UltraStar.

Windstruck - 8-19-2015 at 09:38 PM

A little more Peak 2 fun on a nice afternoon. The 6m really shines once the wind picks up! What can I say, I was bored! :lol:


robinsonpr - 8-19-2015 at 11:29 PM

Another great vid Steve! With that nippy 6m in those winds it would be nice to see some powered downturn transitions!!! ;)

John Holgate - 8-20-2015 at 03:51 AM

Hey, speaking of powered downturns, I think we've spoken about the NS2/3 not really making any more or less power when either upturned or downturned. What about the Peak?

Windstruck - 8-20-2015 at 05:33 AM

Peak 2s offers tons of extra power in downturns! I know I didn't do any downturns in this latest video, but that was much more a factor that I'm still hit or miss with them with my 6m (got it down with the 12). This particular field when run from end to end which I was has no-fail turn zones for the kite, hanging it way over some nasty sage-brush and other plant life and rocks I really didn't want the kite going down in. Even if I pulled off the downturn (which is by no means guaranteed with this pilot) I would have been swooping the kite too close for comfort to that stuff as it rocketed out at the bottom!

With the 6m being very responsive to turn input (compared to the 12m which I refer to as a barge for turning) I generate a ton of power with it by letting the bar out a tad to allow it to ascend high into the air, then pull the bar in for a power dive to the ground before swooping it forward. I believe I do that quite a bit in this latest video. I'm trying to smooth out that motion as it is still too erratic for my liking, but you get a big power boost doing this, similar to a downturn. For some reason I find it hard muscle-memory-wise to cross back and forth with the 6 and 12; I do too much with the bar with the 6.

And thank you both gentleman for your ongoing video compliments. My videos are amateur hour compared to yours John!

robinsonpr - 8-20-2015 at 08:01 AM

Peak Porn alert!!

Got back off my holiday (vacation :)) to find this little (big :)) beauty waiting for me!



It's in great shape, can't wait for to get it in the air, should be up over the next few days and I'll post a mini review :smilegrin:

3shot - 8-20-2015 at 01:57 PM

Nice 12 !!

3shot - 8-20-2015 at 04:21 PM

Another nice video Steve.

Windstruck - 8-20-2015 at 07:33 PM

12m FEVER! That is one beautiful kite Paul. I truly love the green on black; favorite color scheme in my quiver! Beware the bridles! There are a lot of long lines, no doubt the product of it being such a large DP Single Skin. Also be prepared for it to turn m-u-c-h slower than probably any other kite in your quiver. That being said, if your winds are anything like mine in the summer this beast will also be a "session saver" more than a couple of time. Time to get that beautiful buggy out under that gorgeous kite and let it rip!

Windstruck - 8-21-2015 at 04:25 AM

Thanks Jason! These are fun to make. My wife and son think I'm off the reservation making videos like these. :crazy:

robinsonpr - 8-21-2015 at 04:39 AM

Wives just don't appear to get it full stop. My wife thinks I'm a nutcase. My new Peak is safely in the boot of my car, she doesn't need to know I have a new green one ;)

Windstruck - 8-21-2015 at 04:43 AM

:yes:

robinsonpr - 8-22-2015 at 08:35 AM

Had my first flight with the 12m Peak today. I'm a bit disappointed. Probably marginal winds to blame (4-10mph) but I experienced a LOT of the dreaded tip tuck that folk on here have been discussing. I don't know if it was mostly because of the poor wind. But it seemed to happen more on 1 tip than the other. And sometimes they would both fold. When folded even a few sharp tugs on the bar didn't pop it/them back out.

I think it's just a case of not being able to power the kite up enough in the light wind. Or maybe it needs some bridle tuning (gulp).

I was mostly flying static, desperate to get it in the air! I did have my landboard in the car though which I haven't had much success with to date. I gave that a go and had a couple of decent runs! Seems to be easier to get first runs on a board with a big kite in light winds rather than vice versa!

I'll try the kite again over the next few days.

Steve I know yours is tuned by the legend himself. Have you experienced much of this tip collapse in light wind?

Windstruck - 8-22-2015 at 09:27 AM

Paul,

Sorry to hear about the dreaded tip-tuck. A couple of things; first, be patient as it will get better. There is something about just getting time with the kite to learn to keep tension on the lines in more conditions and more of the time that seems to help. Second, things should improve a lot once you get moving in that beautiful buggy of yours. I have not been a fan of flying my P2s static and they don't start to shine until you get moving. I theorize that the Peaks respond well to apparent wind and by moving it is easier to keep the kite from the extreme edge of the wind window which when flying static tends to slacken the lines in my experience. Downturns, sining, and dive bombing with P2s generate a lot of power which tells me I believe quite a lot about apparent wind with these kites. Third, since your kite is new it may in fact need some tuning. I wouldn't touch a thing until you get some decent wind up around 8-15 mph and you get moving on your buggy. I have a feeling you will have a completely different kite on your hands once that happens. Fourth, the P2s have a clem-cleat adjuster. I've fiddled with that a fair amount in recent months and seem to settle on the best position being with about four inches of line pulled through (so pretty far let out) through much of the wind range when I should be flying this kite and not something smaller for safety reasons. Fifth, you were in some pretty light winds and static. The thing I've found about single versus double skinned kites is that while the SS clearly launch in lighter winds, wind is wind, and kites don't really firm up and provide meaningful traction until they get into the meat of their wind range. Just because an SS launches doesn't mean it's going to be pretty, and I think that is certainly the case with the P2s. Finally, there is an adjustment under the foam tubes up by the bar. I found things got better once I shortened those outer lines one knot position.

Check out this thread: http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30194

Great discussion about this problem. Folks in that thread worked some things out with pigtails, but Chris (aka, The Legend) piped in with the reminder I stated here about the under-the-foam adjusters.

Chin up! It's a great kite. You'll be singing its praises in no time! :P

robinsonpr - 8-22-2015 at 11:36 AM

Yeah thanks Steve I suspect I was just trying to fly it in too light a wind. Like you say...just because it will launch doesn't mean it's going to respond and fly nice. Plus static as you pointed out.

When it was flying it was very nice, and I could tell it had heaps of grunt to dish out!

Great bar on the II, I much prefer it to the MK I as it has the clam cleat, stopper ball and spinning chicken loop.

I'm not going to mess with the 12m, I'm sure I just need a touch more wind!

Will keep you posted, thanks again!

ssayre - 8-22-2015 at 07:26 PM

Light wind doesn't help but my peak 1 flies in a whisper and flies well as you probably know with yours Paul. And it doesn't exhibit any bad habits. I'm not sure if it's something with the p2's in general or just the large sizes that seem to have trouble once in awhile.

Here I was flying my p1 shortly after getting it in almost no wind.



Windstruck - 8-22-2015 at 08:14 PM

Combo Born-Porn and Peak-Porn all in one. A threesome!!!!! :evil:

That was hilarious Sean. Nice action out of that P1 BTW. The black and pink is such a great color scheme.


ssayre - 8-22-2015 at 09:24 PM

Thanks Steve! only video that I'm aware of with both kites. You and 3shot could also make a combo video.

Windstruck - 8-23-2015 at 04:43 AM

I can try! It was great. I don't remember right now who said it, but I too like the vertical color scheme better from the NS2s versus the NS3s. Oh well.

robinsonpr - 8-23-2015 at 12:32 PM

So, second time out with the 12m today, but this time with buggy in hand! And yeah Steve, you were spot on, totally different animal once it's got some apparent!!! I still had a bit of tucking during initial launch or if I botched a transition (still getting used to the barge turning :)) but once powered up and moving it was sublime. Winds were low, probably average around 8mph, lulls to barely a puff, but it still kept flying, gave me some nice power and even pulled me sideways a few times, great fun! I was looping the heck out of it during the lulls, and to be fair it doesn't move too bad for a big girl :evil:


Windstruck - 8-23-2015 at 12:53 PM

Great to hear that the Fat Lady sang for you my friend!!!! I knew you'd love her once you got her heated up. That's what all the guys say. :evil:

Cheddarhead - 8-23-2015 at 12:57 PM

Any tip tucking in the Peak 2 6 meter that you have experienced?

Windstruck - 8-23-2015 at 01:04 PM

Cheddar - only tip tuck with 6m P2 for me is an event I would attribute to Pilot Error. I only fly it in brisk winds that don't have many lulls. Any tip tuck (and it's been rare) has been line-slackening situations on my part, either due to poor turning technique or wind lulls.

Cheddarhead - 8-23-2015 at 06:07 PM

Must just be something inherent to the larger sizes. I REALLY REALLY want a 6m but don't want the same hassle I had with the 12.

Feyd - 8-24-2015 at 03:54 AM

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again . A vast amount of what people find to be problematics with the Peak (or any kite for that matter) can often be contributed to pilot inexperience.

Cheddar's 12m would be a good example. It was a kite purchased used. We don't know what the original owner of the kite did or did not do to tune it. They may have attempted to tune it themselves and made the kite more unstable than it may or may not have been originally. Then Cheddar gets ahold of it takes it out and hates it. So this puts him in a suck position because he has a kite, that may or may not have needed a tune, that may or may not be flhiing right but he can't tell due to lack of expirience. So he goes out when he can and tries to get it figured out but in frustration sends it to the NW to get it tuned. It comes back better, likely because whatever the first owner did was reversed by someone that knew how to adjust the kite properly, but still has some inherent "excessive" tip tuck or flutter.

There are very few Pk2 kites out there that have any issues. We've sent back 1 kite out of all the Peaks we've sold and it was a 4m. Some of the early releases required some level of tune but almost every other kite that we've had complaints about was a simple issue of the pilot not learning to fly the kite properly. They are different kites. They take different skills and practice to get the most performance out of them with the least amount of negative flight characteristics.

Time in the saddle will fix a lot of Peak2 "problems". Even just static flying (which I STRONGLY recommend with any kite to really get a good feel for it) will benefit you with the PK2. After a while you just adapt t the new type of kite and learn to avoid or offset the things that make it fly poorly. Especially in the bigger sizes.

In terms of Cheddars hassle. If he wasn't a lone wolf in the wilds of Green Bay and had someone like myself who is highly familiar with the kite to help him I suspect we would have resolved the issue in a few minutes. Diagnosis and feedback of a kite over the interwebs is not the best scenario for this type of thing. If I have the kite in my hands, things become evident very quickly.

By a 6m Cheddar and take some time off to come visit and we will get you dialed.:smilegrin:


Windstruck - 8-24-2015 at 06:15 AM

Well said (as always) Chris! We all wished we could spend time with you, with our without our kites! My folks live in Southern Vermont as I've mentioned to you before. Maybe on one of my visits I'll be able to make a shot up to North Conway!

When I got my 12m from you it was of course perfectly tuned and I'm sure in your skilled hands flew like a true lady. In my (then) inexperienced hands she flew like a drunken barfly until I got the hang of things. No real changes of the kite (save one move of the outside lines up one knot under the foam bars) but lots of hours later and tip tuck is a once in a few sessions event. It seems that this happens the least when I manage to finesse the kite such that good tension remains on the lines at all times. I'm sure there is more to it than that, but whatever I'm doing now just seems to make the kite behave much better than it did when I was starting out with it.

BTW, you are no doubt absolutely correct about the benefit of static flying Peaks or any other kite. My thing is that I like buggying about 1000% more than static flying so if I can buggy as compared to stand around that's what I'm doing!

robinsonpr - 8-24-2015 at 06:39 AM

Thanks Chris for your input.

From my point of view I hope it's not pilot inexperience that caused me to have issues with my 12m, as I've got a LOT of hours both static and buggying with my 6m Mk1.

I think I can put my problem with the 12m down to trying to fly it static in marginal winds. I know the 12m is a light wind kite, but in lulls of sub 5mph I think we are expecting too much of the kite to fly nicely and stay well inflated during the lulls without some anticipation and pilot input to keep the kite moving well during those lulls.

I too bought my kite used. It's from a UK distributor, an ex-demo kite. It may have had some tuning attempts, but I suspect it's "stock". It may or may not need a tweak. I'm not going to try and mess with it as I don't know what I'm doing and have no-one else around with the same kite to compare how another one behaves. I could end up putting it completely out of whack.

Hopefully it's cool as-is. If I hadn't read all the other posts about it I probably wouldn't have given it much consideration. I'll stick with mine for a few more flights before jumping up and down about it. It was great yesterday in the buggy so I suspect it's just those low wind lulls and shifts that can be troublesome. And I suspect most any kite will show some sort of unruly behaviour in those types of winds!

3shot - 8-24-2015 at 07:20 AM

Janky..... The root of all evil...:evil:

Feyd - 8-24-2015 at 11:07 AM

Thanks Steve. :-)

Robin, every second spent on any kite flying is time well spent and time that adds to your muscle memory. However in this case I should be more clear it's time on Peaks specifically on the Peak2 that is required. In fact a lot of people that seem to have the hardest time are pretty heavily experienced pilots that are used to using certain techniques and skills to manage more traditional dual skin kites. The Peaks, especially the Peak2, kinda operate outside what is "normal" for managing the behavior of a kite. The kite does things that other kites can't mostly good but a few weird ones too.

The next closest comparison I can come up with is the Chrono. I've flown a lot of hours on a lot of kites. The Chrono has a reputation for being not entirely user friendly. But when I got on the Chrono for the first time it felt as natural as can be. None of the issues I've hear presented themselves in any real way and it was a dream to fly. None of the Matrixx's, Frenies, Montana's, Rangers or anything had much of an influence on how that kite felt so good to me. The kite that gave me the muscle memory to simply hook in and go, was the F-arc. Another kite with a bad reputation that takes a lot of work to fly well. Another kite that is one of my all time favorites.

The Peak 1 is much simpler and easier to fly. Some of what you learned on that kite is directly applicable to the Pk2. But the PK2 with it's increased performance and sensitivity to tuning is a bit different and adds some considerable learning curve. Ironically, kiters with little experience seem to adapt to the PK2 quickly.

I'm sure the kite you got is fine as I'm sure most are fine. I suspect Cheddar's was pretty much okay but the tune was messed up.

Maybe it needs a tweak, maybe not. You're in the same boat as Cheddar as you have nothing to compare it too and nobody on hand that can throw it in the air for a few minutes and figure out what, if anything, is going on. It will just take some time to get it dialed in. Like Steve said, it happens gradually and it's really hard to put a finger on it.

Also, if you want to experiment with tuning without messing with the mixer, tune it at the floats. You can really do a lot there by changing the line position of even changing the knot positions. Just be sure to mark where you started. ;)


ssayre - 8-24-2015 at 11:22 AM

Sounds like I would be a good candidate for a Peak 2 since the only depower experience I've had is with a peak 1 and a pl arc. No traditional dp time at all and will remain that way :D

Also, I always static fly the colors off of all my kites before moving

3shot - 8-24-2015 at 12:47 PM

Good stuff. Same here. Heck a few weeks ago, me and riffclown flew for six hours. All static! Was quite refreshing actually.

Cheddarhead - 8-28-2015 at 06:51 PM

Look what showed up at my door today:D:D Absolutely stoked!! Now my 12m has a partner in crime. Up to my ears in work hours this weekend so it will have to wait till Monday for it's maiden flight. I have to give a huge thumbs up to Chris Krug for getting this to me so fast! From payment until it arrived on my door step was like three days total. Outstanding service to say the least:thumbup:

Now back to our regularly scheduled kite Porn:cool:

Windstruck - 8-28-2015 at 07:07 PM

@Cheddarhead - outstanding Peak Porn! That is one purdie kite you have yourself there. Once the wind kicks up over 15 mph you are going to have a blast with that thing. You'll notice that the bar in narrower than your 12's and that it will be far easier to pack up at the end of a session than the 12, particularly when it is windy out and the single skin beasts want to flop around all over the place on the ground.

I'll be most interested to hear how you fly with it compared to the 12m, particularly if you are buggying. I have a lot of ingrained muscle memory from steering my 12m P2, a kite I love, but refer to as a barge for turning. As such I tend to over steer the 6m, something that I've really had to focus on to quiet my actions down.

Outstanding that you got it through Chris! All three of my Peaks came from him and I couldn't be happier to do business with him.

Really happy for you!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Cheddarhead - 8-28-2015 at 07:27 PM

Thanks Steve! Here I thought the 12m Peak packed down small......this thing hardly takes up any room at all. A guy could carry a whole quiver of Peaks and not worry about too much weight. I think my 12m Peak, 6m Peak and 6m Ozone Access will prove to be a great three kite quiver. I'll be sure to test it with the buggy when we get some more wind, right now it's been pretty calm the last few days.

3shot - 8-28-2015 at 07:28 PM

Congrats Cheddar!
 Pages:  1    3  ..  5