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Nasa Star 2

ssayre - 5-9-2014 at 07:29 AM

Finally arrived. I'll start the review with shipping. Born-Kites were on a 2 week back order when I ordered them and it took DHL, customs, and USPS a little over 3 weeks to deliver. Tracking is useless until it reaches USPS. This isn't any fault of Born-Kites but just a heads up on overseas orders. I haven't flown them yet but will add to this when I do.

First impressions: Today I was able to spend a fair amount of time with both the 4 meter and the 5.5. The set up I'm using is the 3 line depower bar. Winds were not good at first. I flew them both for about an hour a piece in winds around 4-6 mph. They both flew great and as no surprise there wasn't much I could do with them besides loops and figure 8's in that wind, but I must say they are the easiest kites I've ever flown. They somehow relaunch easily even though its flown like a 2 line kite. They also turn and loop extremely well. The wind picked up to around 10 give or take. This is where it got interesting. It's absolutely the most confidence inspiring kite while hooked in and having some power in the gusts. All grunt and no surprises. I thought I would give the buggy a try even though I knew there was not enough wind for my 5.3 viper and the grass on the field was 8" tall and wet with some soft areas. To my surprise I was able to get moving and plow through the tall grass. I was also surprised I was able to keep moving in conditions I know I would have been frustrated in with my foils. The cool thing was i could operate the bar one handed and not have to work so hard. I never once stalled or crashed or had to get out of the bug to relaunch. Once it's in the air it stays there with very little input. I can easily let go of the bar and get in and out of the buggy. I tested the safety and it's awesome. Once released all you have to do is reach out and grab the bar and the kite pops back open. It's also nice that you can launch unhooked using the depower system and hook in when your ready. To sum it up, this is the best kite for what I do and my conditions that I have flown yet. I really can't imagine going back to my foils except maybe for some variety. They were worth the wait and I'm going to get more. :thumbup:

Flight Characteristics: Think semi-truck vs sports car. This would be a great touring kite for any type of land based traction.

Here is a link to John Holgate's review with more information and video

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=21568#pid20...

soliver - 5-9-2014 at 10:08 AM

Wuhoo!!!! They're finally here!!!! :wee:

ssayre - 6-9-2014 at 08:51 PM

First flight info added.

soliver - 7-9-2014 at 05:08 AM

awesome... glad you like them

3shot - 7-9-2014 at 06:04 AM

Congrats bud! Did you go with their bar? I apologize. I can't remember if you told me.
Time for some pics!!

ssayre - 7-9-2014 at 07:12 AM

Yes, I went with their bar. They have 2 bar set ups. The pro depower bar and the 3 line depower bar. I have the 3 line dp bar. It's hard to explain them because it's so different then other bar set ups. I'll post some pics which will help. I'm glad I got it, the safety features are very nice.

3shot - 9-9-2014 at 08:42 AM

OK. So the janky is broke down into two sub catagories: shifty, and gusty/lull.
Shifty is tough on any brand/ model foil kite in my experience with some flying better than others. Seems all the info I gather on the NS2 is they like sitting back deep in the window resulting in the trademark hard pull.

Have you had a chance to work the upwind much with these NS2?

How do they compair to the conventional foil that you have to build speed and apparent wind before steering upwind and holding a course?

ssayre - 9-9-2014 at 09:00 AM

I've only been in the buggy once with it so my experience is limited, but I was shocked to even be moving in the winds I was flying in. I definitely would not have moved more than 20' intervals with the my viper in the same size. Not only was I moving but I was able to go back and forth and give up little ground. When the wind did die enough that I stopped breifly, the kite stayed flying no problem and I got moving when the wind picked up. With my foil, that would have resulted in the kite stalling and most likely I would have had to get out and relaunch. I'm pretty confident from my brief experience that I will not have trouble staying upwind with better wind conditions. Also, from what I've read from John Holgate's former review, he doesn't have trouble with upwind ability. I'm sure, if given smooth beach wind conditions, that a mid aspect foil would probably be better upwind and be faster, but I could tell that the 5.5 I was flying is going to have plenty of speed for my liking on my fields that I fly in. I will gps the speeds the next chance I can to give an idea. What I like best is getting moving and staying moving even when the wind is challenging. I also like the smooth hard pull. When a couple of gusts came up, I went faster at a more comfortable pace and when a hard gust hit, I would slide sideways a bit and then speed up but it didn't feel like it was going to yank me from the buggy. I felt ultra comfortable being hooked in which was another goal of mine. When I'm hooked to my viper, It would accelerate rapidly and I didn't have an effective means of release. I just made sure I had plenty of room to turn downwind. I can't wait to test them out more thoroughly but so far I think they are a game changer for me. Also, Ive been told that the smaller sizes can achieve much greater speeds. Not unlike how smaller foils are faster than larger foils. That's why I got the 2.5. Hopefully I'll get a chance and wind to test it's top speed.

3shot - 9-9-2014 at 10:22 AM

Dang. I need to make a trip to Indy now. Fly your NS2, then hop over to Chicagoland to try Demo's 2013 reactors lol.

I have great kites for oceanfront riding. That assortment is more than covered lol. My inland quiver is what needs a little more attention. They all fly, but some are better than others. I could simply stop and settle with my Ozone Flow quiver. Even though they are lower AR, they are very reliable in the janky. However, I am a kite addict. I like em all LMAO. I just love to fly! The NS2 is high on the radar as well as the 2013 reactors. Im downsizing the Toxics, and still just may fill in the gaps in my Rage quiver.

I just love the out of the ordinary appeal of the NS2
Decisions decisions. :thumbup:

ssayre - 9-9-2014 at 01:43 PM

Your always welcome in my neck of the woods. Errol's Beach is awesome in the winter to so you should plan a family trip to chicago and accidentally bring your buggy or use one of ours. You have to be careful when his sand freezes. There's jagged little seashells and debris that snags bridles and ripstop if your not careful. I've only been there once but it's quite an experience in negative wind chill. The surface is rock hard from being frozen but it's also bumpy with the occasional ice patch that can be frightening when your going fast.

John Holgate - 9-9-2014 at 03:14 PM

A frozen beach? Wow! The coast is always a couple of degrees warmer here during winter than inland. I've never even imagined a frozen beach.

I think my top speed with the NS2's might be about 52kph. I think the Methods would have been between 10 to 15kph faster in the same conditions. Upwind is similar to a low aspect foil - maybe a degree or two less and you need to be powered. Another advantage in being so non-lifty is that you can put them above and behind you to slow you down in a hurry with much less chance of a nasty surprise than a foil.

Craig Hansen and a friend are doing 'Mad way Mongolia' at the moment (crossing Mongolia with kites). Craig is closely tied with Peter Lynn (I think) so I expect he can take his pick of kites.....what they're using this time is single skin kites designed by Michel Dekker - some a variant on the NPW design and others look very much like a Peak. Some good pictures on their facebook page here: Mad Way Mongolia

3shot - 9-9-2014 at 03:43 PM

Wow John. Thanks for the input on the lift, and upwind factor. :thumbup:

Thanks for the offer Sean. I'm gonna have a hard time getting wifey to vaca in sub zero :lol:

John Holgate - 9-9-2014 at 08:30 PM

Not wanting to hijack Sean's thread...but...

This vid probably gives a good idea of the Nasa Star 2's upwind ability. The inlet goes around a big curve and I go as far upwind as I can before I stop and stretch the legs - you can see by where the kite is as I start back that it's gone a good way upwind.

The evening before this we had a ripper run in 20knots or so - I started with the 2m octane and as the wind began to drop off a little, put the 2.5m Nasa Star 2 up not expecting to be able to go as far upwind - but with the extra power of the NS2, I managed to get quite a bit more upwind than the Octane.

ssayre - 10-9-2014 at 03:17 AM

I was hoping you would chime in. I probably should have just added on to your review to keep all the information in one spot.

ssayre - 10-9-2014 at 05:53 AM

Jason, I think you would really like these. It's almost too easy, it feels like cheating. For static flying they are nice for a relaxed session but my foils are more fun and exciting for static flying. I regard these as a supreme pulling engine for challenging wind and high rolling resistance such as grass. I also think they would be great for landboard and snowkiting as well as long as jumping is not the goal. I plan on making a snow buggy or maybe getting some skis at some point.

Here is a picture of the bar set up and it comes with a separate piece that attaches to the spreader bar to attach the 3rd depower line to.

3shot - 10-9-2014 at 05:36 PM

Mmmmmmm. Snow sled. Makes me wish I still had my PL buggy. Been looking hard at these NS2 I tell ya.

Have you tried the Z bridle and a set of handles yet?

ssayre - 10-9-2014 at 05:55 PM

Ns3 is suppose to be out sometime this fall. I'm not sure how it will be different yet.

rofer - 10-9-2014 at 06:03 PM

Every couple of days I load up their website to see if the NS3 is out. If it's the same price as the NS2s then I'll probably buy one right away.
I'm hoping something in the 8-10m range will be what it takes to actually get me moving in my Summer winds.

ssayre - 11-9-2014 at 05:20 AM

Rofer, do you fly right off handles or did you add some extensions? I don't have enough experience with them to know what would work for you yet.

rofer - 11-9-2014 at 07:53 AM

I've got ~10m lines on it, but I still need some degree of cooperation from the wind which has been hard to find. Last time I went out the air was pretty still except for gusts that came from directions I couldn't predict.
I think a lot of my problem is even my best places are surrounded by trees. I doubt anything will let me fly most summer days, but I think something a bit bigger would definitely expand my options some.

kitemaker4 - 11-9-2014 at 07:56 AM

It seems that most fly the ns2 off of a bar. I know that you can fly the npw9 with handles and any length line set or you can attach the kite directly to the handles and fly them.

Susan (npw goddess)

rofer - 11-9-2014 at 01:54 PM

I've heard the NS2 flies fine on handles too, but they seem to be pushing using it with a bar for some reason. If I get one I definitely don't plan on spending the money on the bar to go with it.

ssayre - 11-9-2014 at 02:22 PM

The bar is not necessary, but I like being able to use a bar for a couple reasons. I can sit facing forward in a more comfortable position, It frees up a hand, they turn well on 2 lines (I'm assuming that's a trait of all nasa wings), it has an effective means of release, and the depower function is handy when launching (I don't anticipate on using the depower function when moving.) I think it would be fairly easy to rig any NPW on a bar using the same method that John shows in his video above (z bridle would be needed I think), but I didn't have any bar to experiment with so it was easier just to buy. I will experiment with handles eventually and I may find I like it better.

IMK - 11-9-2014 at 02:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rofer

I've heard the NS2 flies fine on handles too, but they seem to be pushing using it with a bar for some reason. If I get one I definitely don't plan on spending the money on the bar to go with it.

It could be because their primary market includes street kiting, snow kiting and land boarding. For these markets, the bar is more popular. I like flying FB on handles, but when it comes to NS2's I'm currently using the bar - it works so well and is so simple to use. I too would like to give handles a try on the NS2's one day.

3shot - 11-9-2014 at 04:47 PM

Really diggin' this thread!!!

kitemaker4 - 11-9-2014 at 05:21 PM

I like to fly nasa wings as a four line kite and that has to be done with handles. It gives you more control of the kite.

Susan (npw goddess)

herc - 12-9-2014 at 04:59 AM

exactly ! if you have smooth constant coastal winds, a bar is fine.
in gusty inland winds you are much better off with handles - avoids that dreaded backward flying behaviour of all nasawings. (except maybe the new one from peter lynn, the skin?)

ssayre - 12-9-2014 at 05:42 AM

Hmm, I'm inland and I didn't notice any bad behaviors on the bar at all. The only time I noticed any backwards flying is in really light wind and only if I didn't keep it moving. I buggied with the 5.5 in 10ish winds and it worked great on the bar.

herc - 12-9-2014 at 05:44 AM

yes - on long lines it is usually ok. but on short or no lines a nasastar behaves - in my opinion - much better on handles..

ssayre - 12-9-2014 at 05:49 AM

I haven't got around to short lines yet. Good to know, thanks.

3shot - 12-9-2014 at 05:49 PM

John, I have watched all your NS2 vids like twenty times each! :cool:

IMK - 13-9-2014 at 01:00 AM

Me too :thumbup:

bigE123 - 13-9-2014 at 07:26 AM

From what I have seen of the NS 2 the bar option is due to the fact the brake and power bridles are connected together, a third line goes to the centre top to "de-power" (I use the term loosely, as it's not de-power as we know it). On normal NPWs we have separate power / brake bridles for a four line set-up.
A compromise on the four line set-up is to add a "Z" bridle so that even with no brake input at the handles / bar the tension is held on the brakes at the kite end and no nose collapse.
On my NPWs they only fly backwards with too much brake input, being able to do this means you can fly it straight down, pull on the brakes and stop the kite dead, making it hover upside down, not a buggy trick but good for static control.
A turbo bar works a treat if a bar is your thing, the only thing I found is that it needs a longer brake line leader adding. Won't be long before there is a big roll out of the new breed of single skin kites.
I haven't flown a Peak yet but the one I made knocks the pants off my NPWs and that really does pain me to say it. The extra power and window would be difficult for any type of kite to match.

Interesting days :D

PS NPW type kites are by comparison an extremely simplistic design with very little wastage on building, the new single skins are much more complex to build. That said try altering an NPW and you realise they are not a simple design, just very well designed.

ssayre - 13-9-2014 at 09:21 AM

BigE, does your new single skin fly more like a foil? I really like the nasa wing because it sits deep in the window and provides consistent pull. I don't think I would want a newer style single skin if it behaved more like a fb foil unless I had clean wind. Or does it combine the best traits of both?

ssayre - 13-9-2014 at 11:43 AM

Here's a short video I made today. Winds would have been better for a 7 meter but it still worked well. I felt so comfortable I was able to use my helmet for more important things like camera angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8cU9wHYNPU

3shot - 13-9-2014 at 02:42 PM

:D :thumbup:

Awesome bro!!!! Man I'm really liking those the more I see them!
Does it look like there is any way to mod the NASA bar to accept a swivel style chicken loop to be able to just spin the bar to untwist the lines after multiple loops?

ssayre - 13-9-2014 at 02:56 PM

If you had an old bar with a chicken loop then you could probably mod it in some way. Since I have the harness loop I suppose I could run it through a swivel pulley. I thought about that too before I got it but I've just been looping the kite as I go when I need to. I always wondered why I wouldn't see john down loop the kite in a turn. I understand now. You really don't get that whoosh of power from a nasa wing on a downturn. It seems to have exactly the same effect upturning or downturning. I can still slide in the turns but it's definitely not the same type of power as when flying a foil well powered. For an adrenaline rush the foil wins, but I have way more all around fun with these because they deliver good consistent power and are so stable.

3shot - 13-9-2014 at 03:08 PM

The only downside to a swivel pully is not being able to simply lift the Nasa loop out like a regular spreader bar hook. I have an extra swivel chicken loop to play with. Not so much to unspin the lines from simple downturns, but more so to keep line wear to a minimum from being twisted if one was to do a few loops.

Heck. Look at me talk like I already own a few Nasa stars. Lmao ( :ninja:

:evil: )

ssayre - 13-9-2014 at 03:17 PM

Modification wise, These things lend themselves only to the imagination since they can be flown in so many configurations. Good idea on the swivel chicken loop. We've been having wimpy wind on the weekends lately, I'm turbo jacked up to get some 4 meter wind!!

3shot - 13-9-2014 at 03:27 PM

Im turbo jacked up for you bro. Lately I'm really lovin' some NS2 media. Lol

ssayre - 13-9-2014 at 11:26 PM

Thanks. Hopefully we all get some decent fall wind.

bigE123 - 14-9-2014 at 01:37 AM

@ssayre

Quote:

BigE, does your new single skin fly more like a foil? I really like the nasa wing because it sits deep in the window and provides consistent pull. I don't think I would want a newer style single skin if it behaved more like a fb foil unless I had clean wind. Or does it combine the best traits of both?

It does combine both, I've built a 10m as a low wind machine and tbh I may have gone too big, it has the NPW traits of low wind flying where a foil would just not fly, power is immediate and smooth, it doesn't luff and without brake input will over fly the window. If the wind drops it just slows down, but as it gusts the power really kicks in, 99% of my flying is inland so I need a kite that behaves in the gusty conditions. It also creates more lift, with my NPWs I'm very comfortable with sending them straight up (unless I'm really powered up and should be on a smaller kite), where as the new one I need to treat it more like a blade. With NPWs the problem is nose collapse to varying degrees these things there is none, the only thing I get is the wing tip flutters at times on turns the full LE never falters, when there is no wind the kite just slides down.

I'm a big fan of the NPWs as you need to fly them and the control you develop I don't believe you would learn from any other kite they seem just too easy to fly. After building and developing my NPWs curiosity got the better of me to see how the new ones are, next is a de-power on the 10m and later a 6m build.

skimtwashington - 14-9-2014 at 05:27 AM

Peter Lynn should take notes from bigE on his new high performance skin.

Peter Lynn's SKIN -from the responses of those that tried it-was not a great success in performance.

It was, though, an inexpensive kite at about $99.
I heard he's redesigning it.

The fact that PL was willing to share the design plans for those that want to build their own was admirable. But better to share a really good plan...if he improves or radically changes it.

But just starting with the shape of BigE's new single skin...it seems he was on the right track and had thought out a better plan.... or at least a better one for a higher performance SS(single skin) kite.

As a big reason for using NPW's is their stability..if BigE's newest SS has simililar stability- PLUS- "knocks the pants off" other NPWs in high performance(power/per/meter, upwind, etc) - then it's fantastic. As an NPW user(mostly in winter these days)...I would certainly like to try his. A new video would be nice to watch at least!

Prussik - 14-9-2014 at 08:29 AM

Any R&D done on single skins in general and Nasa’s in particular is admirable. My feeling is that even the simplistic Nasa design suffers from the lack of innovation and possible improvements that could make it a better kite. But it is not surprising considering how time consuming the testing can be (as I found out for myself) with no profit potential.

After well over 4000 km of flying NS2’s alternatively with foils and many hours adjusting bridles, measuring angles and speeds I think I have a fair idea of what I like about them and what I don’t. Being quite impressed initially with their performance I felt I had to find the answer why I need all those foils. As I described in the posting of 10-2-13 – “Nasa Star”, I adjusted the AOA and the pull on the trailing edge to what seemed to be close to the optimal setting. In addition I added 1-4 cm (depending on kite size) to the length of B2 bridle. The mods widened the window by 6-8 deg. (measured statically) and made it indistinguishable from foils in light to moderate loading. Whether this improvement is maintained dynamically can be debated but I have no compelling evidence that it does not. This convinced me that the observed narrower window of Nasas is there by the CHOICE of bridle lengths and it is not an inherent feature of the design – at least up to moderate loads. In fact in underpowered conditions my NS2’s are pointing a little higher than foils and in lightly to moderately powered conditions there is no difference. However in fully powered and close do overpowered conditions the Nasa’s window is narrower and the overpowering downwind pull occurs sooner than with foils. The net effect is that in light to moderate conditions my speed is on average the same for Nasas as for foils. At fully powered situation though I could not match with NS2’s the speed of foils and maintain the same reaching angle. I feel it is easier to go fast, heavily powered up with a foil, with less side pull. My cut-off point is somewhere around 35- 40 km/h for low drag conditions, lower for higher drag. There is a chance that it will be possible to improve this high wind performance by more fiddling with the bridles but this will require more time. For now I feel I found the answer why I still need my foils. In lighter conditions Nasas perform very well and are unbeatable in underpowered situations. As I mentioned before, I fly NS2 on 5 lines and to me this gives maximum control. I started flying them on short lines (3-5 m) and was quite happy with the performance in reasonably mild conditions. However in extreme wind conditions of gusts and directional shifts they were difficult to control. If a wind gust/shift kicks the kite back by a couple of meters – this puts it in the middle of the window on short lines – hardly noticeable on longer lines. Also gybing with any kind of speed is difficult with short lines. For these reasons I moved to longer lines: 10 m for the 7.0 and progressively up to 25 m for 2.5. As with any kite, the faster the kite flies, the greater the benefit of longer lines. I should still get a 1.5 for those days when I use now my 1.5 JOJO sometimes reduced to 1.2.

As to the use of handles vs. bar with NS2. To me the depower function is quite valuable and the kites perform surprisingly well depowered considering the primitive way this is accomplished. In overpowering conditions and the extreme depower setting however, surging becomes a handling problem which I may try to reduce by more bridle adjustments in the future. It is also worth keeping in mind that holding down NS2 on brakes in strong conditions is harder than with a high aspect foil, with much stronger pull which can make things quite uncomfortable. With a bar this is not a problem, neither it is with 5 lines.

I haven’t been able to find an elegant way of folding these things in any kind of wind, usually ending up with a messy bundle that won’t fit in the bag and needs repacking off the wind at home. As trivial as it is, it can be a potential problem for a multi-day trip when untangling a mess in the wind and cold would not be my favourite activity.

bigE123 - 14-9-2014 at 10:32 AM

Firstly I've got to hold my hands up, my latest build was not my design, it was a set of plans made available for single skin para-gliders. The plans had a lot of variables associated with them, in terms of AoA, profile, aspect ratio etc. Which I altered to create a kite, with the work I have done on NPWs I realised that their primary function was not as a kite but as a re-entry chute which happened to fly well as a kite. The original reversing tendencies and narrow window was a function of it's original design. Like Prussik I have spent many hours tinkering with AoA, aspect and bridle configurations on NPWs. The upshot is I think I have now taken my NPW21 design as far as it can go which is a slightly narrower window than a foil, but with all the NPW power traits.

The new 10m I built is tbh a bit too big (and needs a de-power set-up) which I think is why the biggest Peak is a 9m, I flew my 8m NPW in 2-5 mph wind and it was a real easy fly (static) figure 8s etc no problem little pull, putting the 10m up the power difference was enough to scud and would have easily got you going on a board. I know the size difference is not a fair comparison but even so made me realise just how much more power is being developed.

As for the PL skin it was pretty similar in performance to my NPWs, but would need more time to build compared to a NPW. Seeing a vid of PLs new single skin which looks more like the Peak, they are obviously not far of a new release.

As for folding here's something to try: with the kite lines staked down, walk behind the kite, hold the LE and have your feet below the TE now walk forward a bit, the wings will blow down each side of you, leave go of the LE (or tuck it under your chin) now take hold of the wings folding them in to the front of your body. You can now fold it from the LE down. It's easier to do than explain.

ssayre - 20-9-2014 at 03:23 PM

Today was a great janky wind test. Winds were all over the place. I started out with the 4 meter that suited the gusts well but the thick weeds and grass and rough terrain did not like the lulls. I switched to the 5.5 and decided to temper the gusts by steering down wind a bit when overpowered. Intellicast had our winds at 13 mph with gusts to 22 and lulls of probably 7. The 5.5 did extremely well. I had to hit the safety once and it worked like a charm and fast to reset. I was able to get a much better glimpse of what these are capable of speed wise. My field is bumpy and the grass and weeds are retaining moisture and growing like crazy for this time of year which is slowing me up. This summer my fastest speed, on grass, with the viper s is 19 mph. Today I was able to hit 23 mph with the NS2 and If the wind wasn't so on and off, I think I would have been able to go much faster. These definitely have some get up and go to them. I know those speeds aren't fast by beach or wide open area standards but I was very happy with them given my field conditions. All I need now is a backrest in the worst way.

3shot - 20-9-2014 at 03:30 PM

Just put her in four wheel drive and plow through that janky!!
My arm has now been twisted to the point of breakage LMAO.
Good job bud!! :thumbup:

ssayre - 20-9-2014 at 03:41 PM

Thanks bro! I will say though, that they aren't magic. When the wind died down long enough, I was lucky to be going at a quick walking pace :lol:

3shot - 20-9-2014 at 03:50 PM

:D

soliver - 20-9-2014 at 03:56 PM

Awesome... 23mph is fast on grass IMHO, super happy you found your jank controller. For me it's all about the RII's right now.

3shot - 20-9-2014 at 04:10 PM

I know a certain person in VA that has a 6.9 RII :ninja:

ssayre - 20-9-2014 at 04:25 PM

Did you get an rII 3shot?

Thanks soliver. It was a weird wind day. I would be underpowered and giving up ground slowly to the point I was running out of room to being almost overpowered to the point of almost hitting the safety and gaining all my ground back. One thing that was nice was I was able to remain hooked in all day and hold down more kite. That wind would have made me very nervous on my foils.

3shot - 20-9-2014 at 04:42 PM

No. Flyguy0101 has the 6.9m.

ssayre - 21-9-2014 at 06:10 AM

Oh the elusive 6.9. It always seems to evade me. Now that I have a handle on my buggy engines for most conditions, I'm going to turn my attention to a homemade backrest until I save up for some sort of vtt buggy upgrade.

ssayre - 21-9-2014 at 01:43 PM

Tried the 4 meter in too much wind today. Winds were 20 gusting 30 with some lulls. Would have been a good day for the 2.5 which I don't have yet. Even though these are forgiving they have a limit. It had freakish power in that wind but I couldn't control it. Hit the safety twice, somehow ran over my own arm, then put it away and switched to the 2.6 viper. I'll have to wait for another day to test the 4 meter.

3shot - 21-9-2014 at 02:07 PM

:o 20-30 is some major wind. Heck, pushing 30 might even call for the 1.5

John Holgate - 21-9-2014 at 03:25 PM

20knots is my limit for the 4m - which I think is around 22mph. The 2.5m would have been just the shot.

soliver - 21-9-2014 at 04:19 PM

Is Scott selling the 6.9m?

3shot - 21-9-2014 at 04:26 PM

No Spencer. Was just saying he had one, and I know you are headed back this way in Oct :D

3shot - 22-9-2014 at 06:46 AM

Hey Sean!!!
:D :D :D ......
That is all.

ssayre - 22-9-2014 at 08:49 AM

:wee: :cool:

3shot - 30-9-2014 at 04:43 PM

I read this whole thread every day it feels like. Damn I can't wait!!

ssayre - 30-9-2014 at 04:49 PM

When I was waiting for my first round, I tortured myself with watching john's videos. Now I'm doing it again because we haven't had enough wind. I like his custom 10m and 3.2 custom.

Thanks for torturing us John.

3shot - 30-9-2014 at 04:55 PM

Yea no doubt. John's videos are addicting..

sadsack - 30-9-2014 at 05:17 PM

I am building one right now, can't wait untill it is done.

John Holgate - 30-9-2014 at 08:42 PM

Thanks guys. I occasionally watch them myself when the weathers crap and I need to be reminded of Sandy Point and the NS2's

3shot - 8-10-2014 at 05:29 PM

Oh soooo close now :D

ssayre - 13-10-2014 at 10:31 PM

Quote:

As I mentioned before, I fly NS2 on 5 lines and to me this gives maximum control

Prussik, can you elaborate on this? I assume your using handles with 4 lines and a fifth line to the nose for depower. Am I assuming correctly?

Prussik - 15-10-2014 at 08:44 AM

Yes. I have a slider gismo on the last 1 m or so of the 3 mm leader of the 5-th line, which binds under pull and slides easily when grabbed with the free (upwind) hand. This allows setting on the go of the desirable amount of depower. I can also grab the leader with the free hand to accommodate short gusts.

ssayre - 15-10-2014 at 12:28 PM

Post a picture of your fifth line set up if you can. That sounds fun to try and would look cool seeing 5 individual lines going up to the kite. The kite nerd portion of my brain is having a melt down with all of the different configurations. 2 line, 3 line, 4 line, 5 line. Heck, maybe a tail would give it 1 line capability. Hmm, maybe I'll try that.

shaner01 - 20-10-2014 at 01:18 PM

Besides not being water re-launchable, why would the Nasa Star 2 not be good to use on the water?

Just wanted to get feedback from people that use the Nasa Star 2 on a regular basis. Thanks!!!

ssayre - 20-10-2014 at 01:46 PM

I've haven't had the opportunity to have any water experience with mine but the designer of nasa star 2 kites has videos with him using them on water. If you did crash in the water, my guess is you could wad it up and pull it out since it doesn't have cells that would fill up as long as you got to it before it sank. My guess is someone that is already good at kitesurfing would probably easily be able to use them, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to learn on. I'm not much help since I'm guessing, but I'm not sure their will be too many responses since I haven't heard mention of anyone on here trying it. I could be wrong though. They are advertised to be able to be used in shallow water.

shaner01 - 20-10-2014 at 02:07 PM

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, I've seen the video of Steffan on the water with a 7m NS2. I want to try a NS2 with a strapless wakesurf board. Liquid Force Kitefish to be exact.

I was worried about the NS2 not having much power at the edge of the window and me not being able to go upwind because of that, but based on threads like this and John Holgate's video's, I am so close to buying a couple NS2's with their 3 line depower bar. I want to use them for landboarding and kitesurfing. There is something about the simplicity of the NS2's that breeds confidence over the LEI's, not to mention their handling in lulls and gusts. (and price, too

Thats one thing I didnt like about learning with LEI's...if there was a lull the kite wanted to fall in the power zone unless it was steered aggressively.

I guess like most things it comes down to the user and his mastery of it all!

I asked Steffan about the Nasa Star 3 and he said it will be out late this year or next year, but didnt provide details on what the differences will be. Anyone know the differences between the NS2 and NS3?

John Holgate - 20-10-2014 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Anyone know the differences between the NS2 and NS3?

Last I heard (and Steffen may have changed it since then) the NS3 has an extra bridle leg on the trailing edge, it's a little higher AR and it turns a little quicker. The higher AR should allow it to point a little further into the window.

As for power at the edge of the window - it has a relatively small window (particularly compared to an LEI) so exhibits quite a lot of pull when it's at the edge - a very comfy harness is recommended for the buggy. I find going upwind is similar to a low aspect foil but with more pull. Not sure how that will go on a kiteboard. Considering the price, it's certainly worth a try :D let us know how you go.

shaner01 - 20-10-2014 at 02:28 PM

Thanks John! I might have to wait and see the NS3 fly now, the higher AR should make it better on the water.

3shot - 21-10-2014 at 05:17 AM

My babies are here!!!!!:D:D:D

soliver - 21-10-2014 at 08:20 AM

wuhoo!!!

rofer - 21-10-2014 at 09:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by shaner01

I asked Steffan about the Nasa Star 3 and he said it will be out late this year or next year, but didnt provide details on what the differences will be.

Damn, when I last asked I'd gotten an earlier estimate. Looks like I'm going to be stuck waiting a bit longer.
Probably a good thing though as I shouldn't be buying another kite so soon. I just really like the idea of something like my 6m NPW, but with a bigger window and a bit more pull.

ssayre - 22-10-2014 at 06:10 AM

Jason, I can't wait for you to try them out in the buggy. The first time you get some good wind and the nasa star 2 "locks in" it will be awesome. When you hit that wind that is park and ride they really grab hold of you. I tried my 4 meter on handles in the buggy very briefly before I was rained out. I think I'm spoiled by the bar because I didn't see much advantages the handles offered in the buggy and I can sit more comfortably using the bar as John has said in the past. If I'm flying them static, then the handles are more fun.

3shot - 22-10-2014 at 05:14 PM

I really am wanting to try a few of them this weekend. NW 10-15 forecasted though. Not good for the buggy direction wise

, so prolly only a static session.

3shot - 22-10-2014 at 05:44 PM

:D :D :D

soliver - 22-10-2014 at 08:54 PM

:thumbup:

ssayre - 23-10-2014 at 05:41 AM

Cool bags. They must have changed colors, mine are black.

shaner01 - 23-10-2014 at 08:59 AM

Nice 3shot! Would love to see some videos.

shaner01 - 23-10-2014 at 11:55 AM

Nice 3shot! Would love to see some videos.

3shot - 23-10-2014 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Cool bags. They must have changed colors, mine are black.

I was kinda hoping they were going to be the black ones lol. They had both on the website, but no option. Must depend on availability? No major though. First impressions are like you and John said. Very well built kite. Nice and clean bridles with superb stitching. I like the reinforced rib idea on the bridle rows as well. Pretty damn excited :D

Quote: Originally posted by shaner01

Nice 3shot! Would love to see some videos.

Thanks shaner. Will prolly be a few static flights at first til the winds give me some WSW winds.

alf - 26-10-2014 at 08:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dVxGEesyo4&list=UU91ChD5...

I tried without lines on water. Doesnt sink and easy relaunch