Power Kite Forum - Before you ask, What kite Should I buy?

Before you ask, What kite Should I buy?

riffclown - 28-6-2014 at 11:09 AM

First WELCOME to the wonderful world of powerkiting. If your question is
"What kite should I buy?"

The answer is "it depends." What you will be asked by most of us is,
Where are you?
Where do you fly? (or want to)
What kiting experience do you already have?
What aspect of powerkiting are you interested in? (Buggying, Landboarding, Snow Kiting Kite Surfing, Jumping, etc..)
What are your local winds like? (Averages, gustiness etc.)
How much do you weigh? (Not trying to be personal, Bigger people are less likely to be overpowered by marginally bigger kites and most of us want to start you on a kite that will teach you without hurting you.)
What kind of budget are you looking at? (just to narrow choices)

On average, the most popular answer if you are looking to START in the sports of power kiting is a 2-3M Fixed Bridle Kite. It can be flown in low winds as a static kite to learn on and will most likely be a kite you keep as your moderate to high wind kite as you progress in the sport..

If you are a stunt flyer, let us know up front because you might not be happy with a 3M kite if you want to do spins and dive stops. That's where kites like the Spiderkite Smithi most often enter into the conversation.

If you want to jump, STOP, wait a sec and listen to the wisdom of the advanced kiters here. To safely jump you'll want a kite at least 5M square with some float so you can land safely. DO NOT be tempted to just start with a 5M kite and think you can jump.. You will get yourself hurt or worse. The advice here is still a 3M or so kite and once you know EVERY characteristic of how the wind affects you holding the handles, then move up and seek the advice/counsel of our experience Kite jumpers. (Skydiving reasoning seems applicable here. It doesn't take a parachute to sky dive.. It takes a parachute to sky dive twice.)

(Disclaimer: These lists are not by any means comprehensive. They are merely first-hand examples or kites I've seen highly recommended by a few more experienced fellow PKF members.

Sport Kite
Most often these are 2 line foils and are sized by span (2.2 being 2.2 meters wide) This is the kite you find in stores very often and is a great first exposure to foils and a great place to start if you've not flown a multiline kite before.

Examples of Sport Foils are:

*HQ Symphony (Multiple sizes)
*Prism Snapshot (Multiple Sizes) ** the 2.5 size is already bridled for four lines

Trainers
These are often Sports kites geared towards learning to fly on a bar. Sometimes they are sized like sport kites others are sized in Square meters like Power Kites.

Examples of Trainers are:

*HQ Hydra
*HQ Kites Rush Pro
*Ozone Imp Trainer
*Peter Lynn Impulse TR

Fixed Bridle Power Foils
These are 4 line kites measured in Square Meters and are geared towards pulling and/or lifting. These are powerful kites and the dangers here are complicated by new fliers assuming the sizing is consistent with the Sport variety. It is not!! A small power foil can really do a lot of damage to you if you aren't ready for the big difference in pull. These kites are most often used for buggying but are not limited to that aspect of the sport.

Examples of Fixed Bridle Foils are:

*HQ Beamer
*HQ Toxic
*Peter Lynn Hornet
*Peter Lynn Reactor
*Peter Lynn Voltage
*Skydog Powerfoil
*Buster Soulfly
*Ozone Flow
*Ozone Octane
*Flexifoil Bullet
*Flexifoil Rage

Depower Kites
These are multiline kites most often used for Board Sports, WaterSports and Buggying. They are able to be depowered (or sheeted) and are flown with a control bar. A fixed Bridle kite on a bar does not make it a Depower kite) Depowers are generally larger than Fixed bridles for the same conditions and tend to be able to ride out gusts more gracefully. Depowers also tend to be more expensive due to materials and control mechanisms. They also tend to have a wider wind range for a given size than their FB counterparts so a single DP kite may cover wind ranges you'd need multiple FB kites to navigate comfortably.

Examples of Depower kites are:

*HQ Apex
*HQ Montana
*HQ Matrixx
*Ozone Access
*Ozone summit
*Ozone Frenzy

a few other notes
Another aspect of kite design is open or closed cell and LEI (leading edge inflatable) Open cell kites are typically limited to land activites and are inflated by the wind. Land them in water and they stay in the water until you rescue them..

Closed cell kites are either inflated via pump or inflated by the wind while flying but have valves or baffles to prevent them from deflating. If landed on the water, they simply float until relaunched.
LEIs have the similar water launch capabilities as closed cell foils but are inflated with a pump and are generally single skin designs for simplicity. Thanks goes out to Feyd for pointing out some items I overlooked. edited 5-22-15

As for the bottom line, On average, the most popular answer if you are looking to START in the sports of power kiting is a 2-3M Fixed Bridle Kite. It can be flown in low winds as a static kite to learn on and will most likely be a kite you keep as your moderate to high wind kite as you progress in the sport.. The suggested starting size can go up or down based upon your weight , experience and local flying conditions..

Wear a helmet and above all BE SAFE!!..

The NPW Addendum courtesy of ssayre4-15-16

NPW or Nasa ParaWing Kites

The Nasa ParaWing was invented by Francis Rogallo in 1961 as part of research as a means of space capsule recovery. Since then it has been modified into several variations of steerable kites. They are a fixed bridle kite that are flown using 2 lines or 4 lines. The exception being the Nasa Star which is flown as a 2 line kite but utilizes a 3rd line that will partially or totally collapse the nose to reduce or kill power when used with an adapted 3 line bar.

This style of kite has some distinct advantages and disadvantages over traditional foil power kites.

The advantages: They are single skin which allows them to fly in light wind and maintain their shape during lulls in the wind. They sit deep in the window providing tractor like pulling power to keep you moving. They fly very well on any length of line allowing them to be used for "streetkiting" in confined areas. They are very quick turning when flown in either 2 line or 4 line configuration allowing you to place the kite where you need it in the window quickly. They are comparatively inexpensive to their fixed bridle foil counter parts. They are a solid choice and provide reliable power for inland fliers looking to get in motion.

The disadvantages: They have a smaller window which does a couple things. Their upwind ability is less than traditional fixed bridle foils and they are not as fast flying through the window. This coupled with smaller window makes them a poor choice for someone looking for a kite that is exciting and fun for static flying. They generate low lift which is either good or bad depending on what you want to do. If not kept moving in light wind they can have a tendency to fly backwards. They are not readily available commercially and must be purchased from a kite maker or purchased from Born-Kite, the only known manufacturer in Germany.

888huskers - 29-6-2014 at 01:13 AM

Thumbs up for a good post

WackyWindsurfer - 29-6-2014 at 01:28 AM

Second that!
:thumbup:

I feel a sticky coming up...

riffclown - 30-6-2014 at 07:39 PM

Thanks. It wasn't too long ago that I was askng the same question. Just wanted to save someone who might be a lurker some time.

RedSky - 30-6-2014 at 08:08 PM

Good post. :thumbup:

It might be worth suggesting a new category. Maybe something titled "The Most Frequently Asked Questions" to which your post should be placed.

3shot - 30-6-2014 at 08:27 PM

Agreed. A FAQ would be great! I've spent hours digging through old threads trying to be educated. This would save a lot of time, and be more organized with the common asked questions.

soliver - 30-6-2014 at 08:28 PM

Let's also go so far as to say, typically, some of the best kites to start out with in the 2-4m range are:

Peter Lynn Hornet
Peter Lynn Twister
HQ Beamer
PKD Buster Soulfly
Ozone Octane
Flexifoil Sting
Flexifoil Rage

I'm sure there are others I just can't think of right now.

These makes and models all offer a strong pull, good response to input, and very good stability, all of which you will want when learning kite control.

Remember that in the beginning, the point is to learn how to CONTROL the kite, not just to SURVIVE the kite.

riffclown - 6-8-2014 at 03:03 PM

Know your limits and then expand on them..

PHREERIDER - 6-8-2014 at 07:25 PM

gotta pheed the lurkers ...they're just days away from greatest ....see one , do one , PRO! ohyeah!

riffclown - 19-9-2014 at 04:23 PM

It's almost always the first question.. It was my first question here..

riffclown - 22-5-2015 at 06:16 AM

and still gets asked frequently..

Feyd - 22-5-2015 at 09:57 AM

This would make really needed sticky for sure.

I would add that depower kites have a broader wind range than their FB counterparts. A given depower will cover the wind range of 2-3 fixed bridles depending on design and model.

I'm noticing a lack of kite skiing/snowkiting mentioned as an aspect. :P

There may be a need to mention depower differences and common applications. Such as LEI/Closed cell/Open Cell.

Short list on depower options compared to FB. Ozone Summit, or Frenzy would be good additions. Flysurfer Peak, Speeds? Peter Lynn Arcs. Some flavor of LEI as well?

Maybe in the trainer kites it would be worth mentioning Depower trainers like the Flysurfer Viron or HQ Rush V School 300.

riffclown - 22-5-2015 at 10:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

This would make really needed sticky for sure.

I would add that depower kites have a broader wind range than their FB counterparts. A given depower will cover the wind range of 2-3 fixed bridles depending on design and model.

I'm noticing a lack of kite skiing/snowkiting mentioned as an aspect. :P

There may be a need to mention depower differences and common applications. Such as LEI/Closed cell/Open Cell.

Short list on depower options compared to FB. Ozone Summit, or Frenzy would be good additions. Flysurfer Peak, Speeds? Peter Lynn Arcs. Some flavor of LEI as well?

Maybe in the trainer kites it would be worth mentioning Depower trainers like the Flysurfer Viron or HQ Rush V School 300.

Good points indeed.. I edited the original post accordingly.

Feyd - 22-5-2015 at 10:52 AM

:thumbup:

riffclown - 6-9-2015 at 03:43 AM

FiniteState - 6-9-2015 at 07:34 PM

This was a helpful post for a newbie like me. What exactly is it about the design or bridling of a fixed bridle or depower kite that makes it such? When you attach a FB kite on a bar, how does it behave differently from a depower kite on a bar? Thanks.

abkayak - 7-9-2015 at 05:27 AM

Fb and Dp kites are two different designs so the bars are designed to do what each of the kites needs...1st most of us agree that a fb is better off on handles, put it on a bar and it loses some of its performance...put it on a bar and the power lines are on the outside brake lines attach to the center and all the bar will do is turn the kite...a Dp kite will have the power lines run thru the center of the bar and attach to the flyer, the in and out motion of the bar will change how the kite catches the wind in the air, think the angle of attack of the kite...so you controll how much power the kite is generating...than brake or steering lines attach on the outside or the bar to controll turning
Ok who's gonna add to that?

Windstruck - 7-9-2015 at 05:56 AM

"Add" abkayak? Heck no. Just compliment you on a nice succinct explanation. I had all these same questions when I was a newbie; funny how we all seem to go through a similar progression with similar questions.

@FiniteState - my humble suggestion to you is to fly FB off of handles. I liken a bar for FB is like giving the kite a lobotomy. If you have the urge to get a bar in order to hook into a harness, I would suggest you get a DP kite to go along with it. I am a fan of single skin kites myself but they are a somewhat special breed. There has been a lot of great write ups on PKF supportive of the Ozone Access DP kite. I've no personal experience but it seems extremely forgiving and stable, likely good things for a first DP.

RedSky - 7-9-2015 at 07:54 AM

Its a hot summers day and your driving along in your car with your arm out the window. You feel resistance and lift as you tilt your hand away from flat. Its the same thing with a depower kite, you can alter its angle of attack through the bar to produce more or less power/lift.

Now stick your hand out the window again but this time pretend you cannot move it, this is what we call a fixed bridle kite (FB).
The power of the kite or its angle of attack is set at the factory where its made.

Using a bar on a fixed bridle kite cannot depower it as mentioned above, the kite is set at the factory through the use of bridling.

You can use a bar on a fixed bridle kite where you have a pulley operating the brake lines that make turning much easier but not all FB kites like it. There is a short incomplete list of suitable kite and bar combos on this site.

FiniteState - 7-9-2015 at 12:21 PM

Thanks, RedSky, abkayak, and Windstruck. Is the pulley setup the same thing as what I've read as "UDS" - universal depower system?

RedSky - 7-9-2015 at 02:32 PM

No not the same. The bar & lines I refer to are the { Flexifoil traction extreme bar } which allow the brake lines to run free through a pulley to aid in turning and it works very well with the Flexifoil Blade series and I imagine many other brands too.

If memory serves, the UDS is something completely different. It requires that you send your fixed bridle kite off to an expert tuner who replaces the bridle for one that can be adjusted on the fly. They will offer a UDS bar as part of the package.

riffclown - 1-10-2015 at 03:12 PM

OK, I give.. Who wants to write the NPW addendum?

Dayhiker - 2-10-2015 at 12:25 PM

This great post should be the welcome screen for new viewers somehow. Many forums have jargon that is difficult to sort through when you first start reading them. As an example "LEI" is used frequently in posts but as only an experienced sport kite flyer I had "Know Eye Deer" of what it meant in the Power Kite World. Overall this is a great forum IMHO. I am still trying to learn modern texting initialisms. I even made my own up for fun. SHBKF

PS And now I finally understand the depower brake set up a little bit.

super_squirrel - 7-12-2015 at 02:48 PM

Thanks for this. I am worried as I bought my kites from ebay. found a great deal on a Venom II 13m on ebay and jumped on it. But there is no way I am starting on that...

So i got a 4m Ozone access which i found for cheap but still it seems everyone is saying that might be to large to start with. I am 250lbs so maybe its ok?

I do have a tiny (insignificant) experience when i had a few kite surfing lessons when i was 14/15. But never really carried it through.

Im looking to Landboard for now as I am based in London.

Windstruck - 7-12-2015 at 03:16 PM

Super squirrel - great to see you taking advantage of this thread. It helped me a great deal too at first. There are different styles of kites out there as you've been reading about. The Access is a De-Power kite or DP. It has a control bar and a set of pulleys up at the kite. When you slide the bar away from you you work the pulleys up at the kite and effectively decrease the pull or lift of the kite, "de powering" it. The 3m kite size you see getting recommended the most is a so-called Fixed Bridle kite or FB. The bridle are the little lines coming right off the kite and they are "fixed" without pulleys so you can't depower the kite in the same way as you can a DP kite. FB kites are typically flown off of handles.

While there will certainly be exceptions to what I'm about to say, in general, a give square meter size FB kite has a heck of a lot more pull than the same size DP. At 250 lbs you are plenty big enough to handle a 4m FB, but you still might want to get a 3m FB for its flight characteristics. A 3m FB is generally pretty zippy in the air while a 4m FB tends to lumber along a bit more. Again, generalities.

The 4m Access you own for your size is likely going to become your "high wind" kite after a while. It won't provide enough pull in winds much below 20 mph to motor you around too aggressively. I own a 6m Access and love it; don't worry that you have a dud kite.

What you will hear a lot of folks say here on PKF (and these are folks with years of experience) is that there is little substitution for developing foundational skills on a small (i.e. 3m) FB. Like your Access, after a while a 3m FB will become another high wind kite.

Good luck !

Quote: Originally posted by super_squirrel

Thanks for this. I am worried as I bought my kites from ebay. found a great deal on a Venom II 13m on ebay and jumped on it. But there is no way I am starting on that...

So i got a 4m Ozone access which i found for cheap but still it seems everyone is saying that might be to large to start with. I am 250lbs so maybe its ok?

I do have a tiny (insignificant) experience when i had a few kite surfing lessons when i was 14/15. But never really carried it through.

Im looking to Landboard for now as I am based in London.

abkayak - 11-12-2015 at 11:41 AM

bump for our newest

you can thank Riff

riffclown - 16-3-2016 at 12:54 PM

Thank you for the support

3shot - 16-3-2016 at 01:00 PM

This really needs a sticky!

riffclown - 14-4-2016 at 11:58 AM

I appreciate the support..

ssayre - 14-4-2016 at 04:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

OK, I give.. Who wants to write the NPW addendum?

I'll work on the npw addendum if you don't mind. They are a versatile work horse and deserve mention IMO.

I'll u2u you my best description and I'll let you tidy it up and add it if you deem acceptable.

riffclown - 14-4-2016 at 05:04 PM

Repost of original topic start for reference

First WELCOME to the wonderful world of powerkiting. If your question is
"What kite should I buy?"

The answer is "it depends." What you will be asked by most of us is,
Where are you?
Where do you fly? (or want to)
What kiting experience do you already have?
What aspect of powerkiting are you interested in? (Buggying, Landboarding, Snow Kiting Kite Surfing, Jumping, etc..)
What are your local winds like? (Averages, gustiness etc.)
How much do you weigh? (Not trying to be personal, Bigger people are less likely to be overpowered by marginally bigger kites and most of us want to start you on a kite that will teach you without hurting you.)
What kind of budget are you looking at? (just to narrow choices)

On average, the most popular answer if you are looking to START in the sports of power kiting is a 2-3M Fixed Bridle Kite. It can be flown in low winds as a static kite to learn on and will most likely be a kite you keep as your moderate to high wind kite as you progress in the sport..

If you are a stunt flyer, let us know up front because you might not be happy with a 3M kite if you want to do spins and dive stops. That's where kites like the Spiderkite Smithi most often enter into the conversation.

If you want to jump, STOP, wait a sec and listen to the wisdom of the advanced kiters here. To safely jump you'll want a kite at least 5M square with some float so you can land safely. DO NOT be tempted to just start with a 5M kite and think you can jump.. You will get yourself hurt or worse. The advice here is still a 3M or so kite and once you know EVERY characteristic of how the wind affects you holding the handles, then move up and seek the advice/counsel of our experience Kite jumpers. (Skydiving reasoning seems applicable here. It doesn't take a parachute to sky dive.. It takes a parachute to sky dive twice.)

(Disclaimer: These lists are not by any means comprehensive. They are merely first-hand examples or kites I've seen highly recommended by a few more experienced fellow PKF members.

Sport Kite
Most often these are 2 line foils and are sized by span (2.2 being 2.2 meters wide) This is the kite you find in stores very often and is a great first exposure to foils and a great place to start if you've not flown a multiline kite before.

Examples of Sport Foils are:

*HQ Symphony (Multiple sizes)
*Prism Snapshot (Multiple Sizes) ** the 2.5 size is already bridled for four lines

Trainers
These are often Sports kites geared towards learning to fly on a bar. Sometimes they are sized like sport kites others are sized in Square meters like Power Kites.

Examples of Trainers are:

*HQ Hydra
*HQ Kites Rush Pro
*Ozone Imp Trainer
*Peter Lynn Impulse TR

Fixed Bridle Power Foils
These are 4 line kites measured in Square Meters and are geared towards pulling and/or lifting. These are powerful kites and the dangers here are complicated by new fliers assuming the sizing is consistent with the Sport variety. It is not!! A small power foil can really do a lot of damage to you if you aren't ready for the big difference in pull. These kites are most often used for buggying but are not limited to that aspect of the sport.

Examples of Fixed Bridle Foils are:

*HQ Beamer
*HQ Toxic
*Peter Lynn Hornet
*Peter Lynn Reactor
*Peter Lynn Voltage
*Skydog Powerfoil
*Buster Soulfly
*Ozone Flow
*Ozone Octane
*Flexifoil Bullet
*Flexifoil Rage

Depower Kites
These are multiline kites most often used for Board Sports, WaterSports and Buggying. They are able to be depowered (or sheeted) and are flown with a control bar. A fixed Bridle kite on a bar does not make it a Depower kite) Depowers are generally larger than Fixed bridles for the same conditions and tend to be able to ride out gusts more gracefully. Depowers also tend to be more expensive due to materials and control mechanisms. They also tend to have a wider wind range for a given size than their FB counterparts so a single DP kite may cover wind ranges you'd need multiple FB kites to navigate comfortably.

Examples of Depower kites are:

*HQ Apex
*HQ Montana
*HQ Matrixx
*Ozone Access
*Ozone summit
*Ozone Frenzy

a few other notes
Another aspect of kite design is open or closed cell and LEI (leading edge inflatable) Open cell kites are typically limited to land activites and are inflated by the wind. Land them in water and they stay in the water until you rescue them..

Closed cell kites are either inflated via pump or inflated by the wind while flying but have valves or baffles to prevent them from deflating. If landed on the water, they simply float until relaunched.
LEIs have the similar water launch capabilities as closed cell foils but are inflated with a pump and are generally single skin designs for simplicity. Thanks goes out to Feyd for pointing out some items I overlooked. edited 5-22-15

As for the bottom line, On average, the most popular answer if you are looking to START in the sports of power kiting is a 2-3M Fixed Bridle Kite. It can be flown in low winds as a static kite to learn on and will most likely be a kite you keep as your moderate to high wind kite as you progress in the sport.. The suggested starting size can go up or down based upon your weight , experience and local flying conditions..

Wear a helmet and above all BE SAFE!!..
Reposted for Second page..4-14-16

The NPW Addendum courtesy of ssayre

NPW or Nasa ParaWing Kites

The Nasa ParaWing was invented by Francis Rogallo in 1961 as part of research as a means of space capsule recovery. Since then it has been modified into several variations of steerable kites. They are a fixed bridle kite that are flown using 2 lines or 4 lines. The exception being the Nasa Star which is flown as a 2 line kite but utilizes a 3rd line that will partially or totally collapse the nose to reduce or kill power when used with an adapted 3 line bar.

This style of kite has some distinct advantages and disadvantages over traditional foil power kites.

The advantages: They are single skin which allows them to fly in light wind and maintain their shape during lulls in the wind. They sit deep in the window providing tractor like pulling power to keep you moving. They fly very well on any length of line allowing them to be used for "streetkiting" in confined areas. They are very quick turning when flown in either 2 line or 4 line configuration allowing you to place the kite where you need it in the window quickly. They are comparatively inexpensive to their fixed bridle foil counter parts. They are a solid choice and provide reliable power for inland fliers looking to get in motion.

The disadvantages: They have a smaller window which does a couple things. Their upwind ability is less than traditional fixed bridle foils and they are not as fast flying through the window. This coupled with smaller window makes them a poor choice for someone looking for a kite that is exciting and fun for static flying. They generate low lift which is either good or bad depending on what you want to do. If not kept moving in light wind they can have a tendency to fly backwards. They are not readily available commercially and must be purchased from a kite maker or purchased from Born-Kite, the only known manufacturer in Germany.

riffclown - 14-4-2016 at 05:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

OK, I give.. Who wants to write the NPW addendum?

Would love it.. Looking forward to it.. You're the perfect advocate for the NPW..

Updated above.. I'd like to add the NPW is less prone to structural baffle damage in a impact. It has no baffles and therefore doesn't create the internal pressure of a standard foil during a ground impact..

ssayre - 5-6-2016 at 06:51 PM

bump for new pilots

riffclown - 7-7-2016 at 06:12 PM

Thanks for the support

riffclown - 26-8-2016 at 05:17 PM

riffclown - 12-1-2017 at 04:40 PM

This hasn't been to the top in a while.. Cheers..

riffclown - 22-3-2017 at 06:13 PM

Friendly Bump

Windstruck - 12-4-2017 at 07:27 PM

A "bump" for riffclown! :D

ssayre - 17-6-2017 at 04:30 PM

bump

Morgantwin11 - 29-1-2018 at 11:35 AM

Very helpful thread plus a quick bump!

riffclown - 5-9-2018 at 06:30 PM

riffclown - 21-9-2019 at 08:56 AM

annual bump.

riffclown - 23-6-2024 at 06:19 AM

been a while. Still relevant