Power Kite Forum

Is a foil kite easier to fly then a stunt lite?

STONEDEF - 31-3-2013 at 03:41 PM

I just flew my stunt kite I got off eBay for $25 dollars and it was hard. I would get it in the air and then it would be coasting then there would slack in my lines and I would back peddle to get the slack out and it would crash. I am not sure if it was me or if the wind died down to much. I just had a hard time keeping the slack out of the lines.That is my first time flying a two handle kite. Is a foil kite like a prism snapshot easier to keep in the air? Thanks!

B-Roc - 31-3-2013 at 03:47 PM

It depends. I flew stunt kites for 10+ years before I picked up my first foil so I had an excellent understanding of the wind window and how to fly the lines not the kite and fund foils on handles much easier to fly compared to tricking a sport kite and having total command of the lines and pitch of the delta. But if I had never had that experience and had to fly a soft, frameless foil, in crap wind.... well, I imagine that could be a challenge to learn.

Smooth wind makes up for a lot of pilot error. Crap wind retards the learning.

B-Roc - 31-3-2013 at 05:11 PM

One of the problematic things I think many new pilots (especially in sport kite world) do is over control the kite and thus pull it out of the sky in light winds or collapse the foil or cause it to spin and then over correct it into another problem spin or canopy collapse.

One of the best things you can do is learn how to finesse the kite, fly the lines and not overcontrol the kite. While strops are required for harnesses (which you should not be using when learning) strops are also great to limit the amount of throw you can add to the kite and thus teach good habits from the get-go. I'd recommend you add a strop to your handles and learn to fly with pull turns, push turns, brake turns and combos of each. Then you can fly the lines and control but never over-control the kite. Picture of a strop below. Proper strop length is, at most, the length of your shoulder to your wrist - but never longer, as that length when hooked in to a harness will always allow you to reach the handle if you drop one side and the handle is in the furthest position away from you that the strop allows.


STONEDEF - 31-3-2013 at 06:40 PM

Maybe it was crap wind. It was never steady for very long. But when it was in the air for alittle while. It was a big rush. I have not flown a kite since I was alittle kid.

pongnut - 31-3-2013 at 07:44 PM

Sounds like classic crap wind. You need to try someone's foil kite - once you go foil, you'll be hooked. If you have no one around with a foil kite to try, then save up for a 2 to 3 meter, 4-line foil kite from HQ, Peter Lynn, Flexifoil, PKD, Ozone, Prism, Skydog Kites, or other reputable manufacturer. Heck, somebody on the forum here may even be willing to let one go for much less than new... :spin:

Welcome to the "power" side.

STONEDEF - 1-4-2013 at 07:27 AM

Thanks pongnut. I was thinking of going with the Prism Snapshot 2.5 for my first power kite when I save up enough money. It has two handles, but can convert to a quad line if you buy the extra stuff. I am wondering if this would be a good starter one or if anybody else has some suggestions, I would be glad to hear them. Thanks

pongnut - 1-4-2013 at 08:39 AM

Hey, I found 2 more cents... for a few bucks more, I'd skip the 2-line Prism and get yourself a 4-line kite with handles - way easier re-launching and landing, and the extra lines add a dimension of control that 2-lines won't provide. There, my pocket is empty now. ;)

STONEDEF - 1-4-2013 at 10:47 AM

Can anybody point me in a Brand direction for a 2.5m kite with quad lines that is decent price? I liked the 2.5 snapshot because of the price. I have found some 2.5 kites with 3 lines and a bar. How would that work? I am having a hard time searching the internet for one. Thanks

mahgnillig - 1-4-2013 at 10:52 AM

In my (albeit limited) experience, larger kites are easier to fly than small ones because they turn slower and are less twitchy. You may very well find that a 2.5m foil will be easier to control than a small 2-line stunt kite... I know I did! They are different beasts. I started out flying 2-line stunt kites and have a Prism Nexus and a 4D. When you compare the Nexus to a larger kite like a Quantum, the Quantum feels easier to fly because you need more user input to get it to turn. With the Nexus, it's easy to make too big a movement and then over correct it, leading to a nosedive or somesuch. The smaller the kite gets, the smaller the movements needed to control it. Having said that, it sounds like you were flying in nasty, lumpy winds, and no kite is easy to fly under those circumstances.

awindofchange - 1-4-2013 at 11:36 AM

You can pick up a brand new Cross Kites Quattro 2.5m for $165.00. This is a very nice entry level four line kite.

Here is the link:
http://www.awindofchange.com/product/cross-quattro.html

Hope that helps.

B-Roc - 1-4-2013 at 01:20 PM

HQ beamer is a popular entry level kite too.

John Holgate - 1-4-2013 at 01:50 PM

I would also go a four line power kite on handles rather than the prism snapshot. I have a snapshot and while it's a great little kite, I very rarely fly it now that I have a good selection of 4 line kites. 4 lines are much easier to manage and relaunch. 2.5m Ozone Imp Quattro, Zebra Checka or Z1, Peter lynn Hornet, HQ Beamer, Flexifoil Sting or Rage - all really good kites - if you can a find one new or s/h in the 2-3m range at the price you like, do it!

Here's a 3 year old Imp Quattro still flying pretty well....

STONEDEF - 1-4-2013 at 04:16 PM

Thank yall so much for all the info on brands and types. I am going to look at them all!

AnnieO - 1-4-2013 at 04:17 PM

As others stated just go for a 4-line right off the bat. My first power kite was a Prism Stylus P3 which was the predecessor to the 2.5 Snapshot. I bought it because it was cheap and I didn't ask on here first. In hindsight I would have just put what I spent on the P3 towards my first 4-line kite which was a 2M Hornet. I still have the Hornet and it does get to come out in really high wind days. I still have the P3 but I can't even venture to guess the last time it was out of it's stuff sack.

STONEDEF - 2-4-2013 at 11:08 AM

I have checked all of the prices and the kites and brands that you all mentioned above. I am thinking of going with the cross kite Quattro 2.5 when I get the money. Have to some how get it with out making my wife to mad at me. Also forgot to mention that I weigh 130lbs, so I am guessing the 2.5 will pull me some good?? I live in Charlotte, North Carolina which is not near the beach. So hopefully there will be constant wind sometime to keep it up in the air instead of the lumpy air I had the other day. LOL

Bladerunner - 2-4-2013 at 05:28 PM

Just a word of warning.

This sport gets very addictive. You will notice that almost all of us have a few kites. In general you won't be happy until you have a low , med' and high wind kite. Best thing is to get the Wife interested as well. Makes buying all those kites for her a worthwhile gift ! ;-)

STONEDEF - 3-4-2013 at 06:33 AM

What is the difference in a high,medium and low wind kite? I am looking for a LOW to medium wind kite since I don't live in a high wind area. Some days where I live there does not seem to be much wind. Is the Cross Kite Quattro 2.5 a low to medium wind kite??? Thanks

abkayak - 3-4-2013 at 09:20 AM

we are talking size for the moment...small kites for big winds, big kites for small winds that kinda deal...the cross will be fine for you

jeepersjoey - 4-4-2013 at 10:49 PM

Remember that the dual line will pull you on a buggy (what most people are here for anyway).

I flew my Prism Quantum today at Ivanpah and it pulled me to 23.1mph.

Not too shabby!

Btw...I have owned them all. Skip the P2 and/or slingshot and get a proper 4-line and never look back. The control you get on the quad-line is much much better.

SFKITER - 7-4-2013 at 11:38 PM

Ok come on guys some people dont need to move instantly to the 4 line kite ha. I mean yes I love flying the HQ Beamer practically every single day......, but 2 line foils are still pretty fantastic! I personally think stunt kites are stupid and pointless, but the revolution was a beast!

Its a process learn how to fly the 2 lines in every single wind condition and learn the different sizes before you jump into the 4 line kites! Just my oppinion, I just think everyone should have a quiver of all sorts to show and give their friends kites to practice on also. I mean Im not gonna give my 4 line kite to one of my friends right away before he can fly the 2 line properly :)


Respect for the Kite.................... My Passion....... KITES....... Eat, Sleep, Dream Kites

B-Roc - 8-4-2013 at 03:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFKITER
Ok come on guys some people dont need to move instantly to the 4 line kite ...

.... I mean Im not gonna give my 4 line kite to one of my friends right away before he can fly the 2 line properly :)



Why would you slow someones progress to a 4 line kite down? One has way more control with a four line than a 2 line, they tend to handle poor wind better and the ability to recover and relaunch is siginigicantly better if you are by yourself.

Additionally, there is no reason not to give a total newbie a 4 line kite since they can always fly it like its a 2 line kite by simply initiating pull turns and forgetting about the brakes.

People can fly whatever they want but no one is going to progress too far in this sport with just a 2 line kite (I recognize that some have modified Blades, etc. to 2 line configs and jump just fine but most will not go that route).

pongnut - 8-4-2013 at 09:17 AM

Yeah, go 4-line. Why, just yesterday, a friend of mine, his girlfriend's 14 yr old son, and myself were out flying static. The 14 yr old had only flown 2-line foils twice before, so was already familiar with the mechanics. He was flying a PL Vibe 2.6 (2-line) for a little while and had a smile the whole time. After explaining to him the basics of 4 lines, I let him take my 3m Beamer for a spin - his smile turned into chuckles of amusement when he realized he could back the kite down into the power zone and fly back out. He also crashed it leading edge down and began yanking the lines to get the kite to flip back over. I told him to simply apply the brake lines when the kite pops up, turn it and fly away - he did, and as the kite floated up, rolled over, and launched, I knew he was hooked. He exclaimed that he likes the 4-lines way better - we had to pry his hands from the handles when we were done ;-)

SFKITER - 8-4-2013 at 11:28 AM

My movements on the 4 line are a lot crisper since I started on the 2 line instead of the 4 line. Yes its great to have so much control but at the same time not everyone wants the larger pull and is more comfortable on a smaller 1.2 or 1.4 the objective is to get them interested. Not all parents want there kids going straight into a $200 and higher kite not knowing if they are going to like it.

Would you buy your kid a $200 ( Big Kid Toy ) :) with out complete assurance that it wont just be another waste of money? Parents see price tag and instantly want the small kite


You guys can obviously all say sure stick him on a 4 line kite, nothing to lose, but flying kites is what happens on this forum because most dont fly as often as we do either.


sorry not trying to create an arguement just showing the other side also

pongnut - 8-4-2013 at 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFKITER
Not all parents want there kids going straight into a $200 and higher kite not knowing if they are going to like it.

Would you buy your kid a $200 ( Big Kid Toy ) :) with out complete assurance that it wont just be another waste of money? Parents see price tag and instantly want the small kite


STONEDEF is 33 and married, I don't think his parents will care if he spends $150 on a kite, his wife on the other hand... ;-)

STONEDEF - 9-4-2013 at 07:16 AM

LOL..yeah..33 and married with a new baby.. I have already figured out its going to be hard to fly the kite whenever I want to because we have a baby now. I was able to fly my stunt kite for the second time on Sunday at a park with good smooth wind and was able to keep it up in the sky for a real long time and get a good feel for flying and keeping the kite in the wind window. The stunt kite was real fun to fly.(being my second time flying a kite since I was alittle kid). It is a stunt kite I bought on ebay for $25.00. But from what I am learning on here now, a Quad line foil kite is alot more fun??? I planning on buying a Prism Quantum or the Quad line Cross kite Quattro 2.5. I plan to make the purchase within the next two weeks for sure. Just have to figure out which one would be the most fun.....
Thanks, StoneDef

knkmannthey - 9-4-2013 at 06:27 PM

Flying stunt is different the a foil. I have all kids of stunt and foils. A 2 line foil tends to be a slower Moving kite that you can crash with out fear of breaking rods. For learning a foil is perfect two line foil is a great trainer. If you want to do tricks then a god delta stunt is a great kite kite. 4 line kite are a different kind of control. I have a revulation sle that is a 4 line wing that is a amazing kite to fly beace of that it can do (fly backward)
Foils can deliver different power depending on how they are set up and what wind you are flying them in. Be careful with power kite until you know there the wind window and how to fly around it.

mahgnillig - 10-4-2013 at 01:08 PM

Both will be fun, but in different ways. If you want to get pulled around and have something you can use with blades/buggy/skis etc. then the foil is the way to go, but you won't be doing too many tricks with it (basic loops in low wind and stuff). If you like the trick flying aspect then go with a good stunt kite... the frame allows you to do the kind of slack line tricks that you'd never be able to do with a foil, but it won't pull you along like a power kite. Or better yet, get one of each ;)

Windy Heap - 10-4-2013 at 02:03 PM

I wish I could even do 1% of the stunts that Dodd can pull off with my twin line stunts, foils make you way more sore and sweaty though, so yah, buy both. I'm new to foils, and they're fun, just different than a true stunt kite.


Master Instructor/Designer Dodd Gross

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2323diSKmGY

WELDNGOD - 10-4-2013 at 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by STONEDEF
Can anybody point me in a Brand direction for a 2.5m kite with quad lines that is decent price? I liked the 2.5 snapshot because of the price. I have found some 2.5 kites with 3 lines and a bar. How would that work? I am having a hard time searching the internet for one. Thanks



Big Kid Kites.... PKD!!!!:wee::wee::wee:
http://www.pkdkitesusa.com/products/Buster-Soulfly.html
This will do ya right And just so you don't think you are gonna"outgrow" it,here is a vid of me with a 2.2m Buster filming my buddy with a 1.5m Buster.
https://vimeo.com/53914152

Coldsnap - 16-4-2013 at 02:11 PM

As previous posters said, a stunter and a 4-liner are both fun to fly, but in different ways. The Quantum is an excellent kite, stable and easy to handle because of its size, and the shock absorbers make it nearly indestructable. For a quad, the PL Hornet 3M is an excellent choice if you want something big enough to pull you around, if you'd rather start small I really, really recommend the Flexifoil Sting 1.7M or 2.4M for learning quad basics. :)

Here's a link to it at the shop I usually buy my gear from: http://www.powerkiteshop.com/kites/flexifoilsting07.htm

MDK - 16-4-2013 at 07:31 PM

I started with a 4 line for the simple fact that they are easier to launch and land by yourself, no volunteer needed to put their life at risk :) you can fly a 4 line just like a two line, just ignore the brake lines except to launch and land until you start to discover what they can do in flight :)
The Buster Soulfly 3.3m is a fantastic beginner kite that you will never outgrow. Here the Buster took me to nearly 48 MPH in a bug! http://youtu.be/_1zLq0xt0n4

pkdkitesusa.com

MDK - 16-4-2013 at 07:39 PM

I have to add, I watched a guy destroy a 2 line foil at the beach trying to land, then I let him fly a buster with a couple pointers and he did fine.