Lots of discussion around the peaks in here, so since I'm considering getting one, I am wondering what the largest size would be that is still usable in something like 30mph wind?

It sounds like they are very fast but I don't mind a responsive kite if it's actually stable enough to fly with one hand. If a 6m is the choice then I think that's the right gap to my next foil @ 11m, so I guess I'd really only need to consider one more kite. Although if I got a 4m size, maybe I'd have a more than slightly uncomfortable gap in the range?

I'm probably not qualified to answer as I don't snow kite and I would not use my 6 or 9 in 30 mph and do not have a 4 meter, BUT I will say I feel good on the 6m up to 20ish and it's powered at 12 and I can handle the occasional higher gust but I wouldn't want to ride with sustained 20+ wind for my personal liking. Feyd has talked about using the 6 in higher wind. Feyd's write up compared the access 6m and 4m peak and sounded like the access came out ahead but it's a little more dough

Congrats Sean!!!... Me want!!!

You have your helmet on in that pic?

Thanks Spencer. As far as the helmet, we have covered this multiple times. When you see the camera that low to the ground, than it is mounted to my helmet which is not on my head. But, I only filmed a few passes and promptly, landed and removed the camera and wore the helmet. I've actually been much, much more safety conscience lately.

When does you 10m arrive?

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I'm probably not qualified to answer as I don't snow kite and I would not use my 6 or 9 in 30 mph and do not have a 4 meter, BUT I will say I feel good on the 6m up to 20ish and it's powered at 12 and I can handle the occasional higher gust but I wouldn't want to ride with sustained 20+ wind for my personal liking. Feyd has talked about using the 6 in higher wind. Feyd's write up compared the access 6m and 4m peak and sounded like the access came out ahead but it's a little more dough

Yeah I did read that writeup. Always helpful to hear what others think though. Newer access kites are definitely more $$$ but I have flown older ones (2009ish) and I have the sense that anything since then is probably pretty solid in terms of stability in high wind.

Feyd probably has 15 times my flying hours, although I am not afraid to hook on to big kites in high wind. The immense depower of those flysurfer kites keeps things manageable.

I've also seen reasonably cheap flysurfer Virons in small sizes. I wonder if anyone here can compare those? Besides the peaks probably having a wider range with the really stretched low-end (for their size), I wonder if anyone has any direct experience with those?

Quote: Originally posted by yeti

Lots of discussion around the peaks in here, so since I'm considering getting one, I am wondering what the largest size would be that is still usable in something like 30mph wind? It sounds like they are very fast but I don't mind a responsive kite if it's actually stable enough to fly with one hand. If a 6m is the choice then I think that's the right gap to my next foil @ 11m, so I guess I'd really only need to consider one more kite. Although if I got a 4m size, maybe I'd have a more than slightly uncomfortable gap in the range?

Yeti - glad to hear you are considering a Peak! I have the complete quiver of Peak-2s and swear by them. I have used them quite a bit this year seated in the buggy and have come to really appreciate their design and function. Yes, you can ride with one hand on the bar if need be, but expect to need to come back with the other hand from time to time.

I've not yet done any snowkiting but plan to do a lot of it this winter using my P2s. On the XK forum I recently wrote the descriptions below about my supposed wind ranges. Your experience could differ and I suppose snowkiting could set up different sorts of resistance patterns too which could change these. Offsetting these hypothetical variables is the very real variable that cold wind is denser than warm wind so 20 mph wind in the dead of winter packs more punch than the same wind in summer.

In simplest terms I'd break them down like this:

4m: "wasp on a string". Highly caffeinated Peak with all the DP capability that you enjoy on other peaks. Starts to shine in base winds in the high teens with gust 20+ mph. I've had this kite up in winds with gusts well over 25 mph and felt in control.

6m: great kite, slightly more subdued than the 4m. Good in a wide range of winds from Low to high teens in mph. Starts feeling like a lot of kite in gusts exceeding 20 mph if you need to turn around a lot

9m: best in the lot. Great for winds over over 10 mph. Starts feeling like a lot of kite in winds over 15 and darn right scary over 20.

12m: I nick named this kite "Session Saver". Will launch in 3 mph winds and provides good motive power starting at 5 mph. You will wish you had a smaller kite in the air if the wind gets over 15 mph.

You mention wind over 30 mph. Not sure if you mean base wind or gusts. If it were base winds no Peak over 4m would ever get launched by me. The couple times I've had the 6m up in winds with gusts hitting at around 25 mph in warm weather had me sheeting out and trimming the kite at the cleat. Doable, but pretty nerve racking. This is in the buggy. On skis I know you can slide sideways to take out some power, assuming you've got the room to do this.

Hope this helps. Chris (feyd) would be the best person to comment on this.

Excellent Sean!! Love that blue bonnet too!!
Jealous, but happy:D

It's making me want a Peak more now.. :o
Congrats on the Peak 9m Sean!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Yeti - glad to hear you are considering a Peak! I have the complete quiver of Peak-2s and swear by them. I have used them quite a bit this year seated in the buggy and have come to really appreciate their design and function. Yes, you can ride with one hand on the bar if need be, but expect to need to come back with the other hand from time to time.

We probably have different scales for what is the right amount of power. Getting moving on wheels is most likely easier than sliding on snow.

I don't tend to consider myself overpowered unless the kite is starting to lift me with the bar sheeted out, flying it statically, kite at zenith. I tend to ride with pretty close to the same amount of power as on water, unless the surface is crusty or hard packed. Wearing about 30 lbs more gear in the winter tends to require a little extra oomph. Once I'm dressed with skis on my feet, I probably weigh close to 200 lbs.

20mph is not out of the question with something like an 11m frenzy or a 15m speed 3 as long as the gusts are not much more. A 10mph baseline speed works good for me on those wings, but up to 20mph is acceptable. The speed 3 can easily work down below 10mph depending on the surface conditions. I'm sure a peak 12 is a much better light-wind kite but I have to assume the 9m is probably close in power aside from the fact that it will probably still launch and fly alright in less than 7mph wind.

I have to assume the 4m peak would be more like a 5-6m foil kite. And from what I'm reading about the depower range here, using it in 30mph wind must be great as long as you don't mind the wasp effect?

Yeti - I think you are right. I'd take all my recommendations and shift then one kite size based on what you said. Good luck! BTW, the wasp on a string stuff is actually pretty fun.

Yeti, rolling on thick grass in buggy takes some power and your momentum stops as soon as power is lost. However buggy on a harder surface is a different story. Probably similar to trying to snowkite through a crust with soft under versus snowkite on ice. I'm almost guessing it would be similar power needed for buggy on grass versus snowkite on soft stuff. Just a guess.

Hey Brad,
I'd say the Peaks do not compare size wise to what you are used to....I can hold my 12 Peak 2 down on snow in just about anything....but it is mostly my absolute light wind kite. Any high wind and I'll be either on my 7 Razor or 4.5 RPM. I'll use the Peak when I can't get anything else to stay in the sky but as soon as I hit the 12+mph range I'll go 14 meter Nitro instead. They (Peak) are a pretty different animal (in my opinion)

Knowing how much kite you can and do carry I'd say in 30mph you could hold down pretty much anything :D. The Peaks will fly in almost no wind but they don't generate power in the same way.

Yeti is right. "Powered" is a relative term. As he describes the kite generating lift at 12:00, that IMO is well powered in some areas but OP'd in others. As he points out it can vary depending on gust factor. For example in our area we never sit with the kite at 12:00 due to the gust factor and powered can be anything from 15 to 40 kts depending on the location, surface and kite.

20mph on the snow is not terrible with a 12m but it is at the top end of it's range and much beyond that and you are likely to be flying it sheeted out a little and dumping power through the flutter. Unless you have pretty deep snow. Then it will be sick. :D 9m is pretty much the sweet spot IMO. With all my gear on I weigh between 220-230lbs. FWIW the 9m PK 1 with 3m line extensions can hold its own against the Speed 3 15m in terms of power and out performs it in light wind.

But as Jeff said even the 12m can be pretty manageable in pretty stout winds. My first thoughts on my first test of the 12m was "This is as close to a one kite quiver as I've ever seen." I still kinda feel that way but it will be dependent on your size and ability. I think the 9m is more versatile in terms of fun factor vs. getting the job done in the broadest conditions. Sure I can fly the 12m in 20+ but it kinda sucks. The bar pressure alone turns me off of that. But if you want powered, like really powered all the time and pretty damn good light wind performance, the 12m is killer. It saved many a lesson day when winds were light. It's the kind of kite I can safely put a beginner on when there's no wind (say 4-6kts) but not worry about it when an 8-10kt gust rolls through. On firm snow though, the 6m is still my favorite.

There was some discussion about the Viron. If we are talking the original Viron IMO it was a total dog. Slow turning (which can be good to a point in a trainer kite) and for lack of a better term, really kinda "clunky" Flysurfer sent us one to try out for our school and we found it almost unusable. It handled gusts pretty well, buy the turn rate and response time mated with the AUTO LAUNCH feature just didn't work for us.

The Viron 2 on the other hand, a completely different kite IMO. Launches better in less, turns faster but only if you want it to. Handles gusts well and depowers nearly to the point, if not as well, as the Peak. A lot of it's improved performance could likely be attributed to the fact that it's made of DLX material unlike the original which was made stock fabric. Initially as a kite, in spite of it's size it was not recommended (to us by Flysurfer) as a kite for prolonged high wind duty. That has since changed and the Viron seems to be transforming into a all around, relatively inexpensive, entry level/high wind kite that is darn near numpty proof (borrowing a term from Kami) and water relaunchable. The wind specs are pretty sweet.

In fact Flysurfer has added an 8m size to the Viron mix which will be available shortly. I'm told it's a pretty sweet wave kite. http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/viron-2-dlx.html

The Viron is a kite that we at HWK haven't put much thought into lately but I suspect that will change. I've played with them a bit over the last year+ and they've been very nice. I played with them in the water and they relaunch amazingly well.

Steve, check ur u2u. ;-)

"FWIW the 9m PK 1 with 3m line extensions can hold its own against the Speed 3 15m in terms of power and out performs it in light wind. "

Feyd, not sure which one your referring to. Is this the one :D

That's a beauty!!

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

"FWIW the 9m PK 1 with 3m line extensions can hold its own against the Speed 3 15m in terms of power and out performs it in light wind. " Feyd, not sure which one your referring to. Is this the one :D

Schwing!

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Hey Brad, I'd say the Peaks do not compare size wise to what you are used to....I can hold my 12 Peak 2 down on snow in just about anything....but it is mostly my absolute light wind kite. Any high wind and I'll be either on my 7 Razor or 4.5 RPM. I'll use the Peak when I can't get anything else to stay in the sky but as soon as I hit the 12+mph range I'll go 14 meter Nitro instead. They (Peak) are a pretty different animal (in my opinion) Knowing how much kite you can and do carry I'd say in 30mph you could hold down pretty much anything :D. The Peaks will fly in almost no wind but they don't generate power in the same way.

only flown 6 and 9 p1's but I know enough to know your not going to do anything more than JUST hold a 12 down in 30 and flapping like mad. I doubt you would be doing any good riding under those circumstances. I'm not disputing at all that you guys ride powered, but there is a difference in holding something down versus using it. I would welcome video of using it in the 30's if you have it. :evil:

Also all kites are different and build power in different ways, but what is similar with peak and all the kites I've flown so far is apparent wind will kick in and it will generate the similar exponential amounts of power.

Wow Sean,... super jealous.... that's gorgeous.

Ssayre,
Didn't say I'd choose to hold down my 12 in 30 - I referenced Brad's ability to hold what I'd consider a large amount of kite when I'm on something smaller (we've kited same wind when he was on a 15m speed 3 and I was teaching a buddy to snow kite on a 5.5 meter Apex) so his mileage would vary dramatically. That basically any of the kites he specifically asked for info about (smaller peak sizes) may fit the bill.

A 12 is not a high wind kite and there is no way I'd want to kite with mine in 30 - if I gave that impression then yeah - that is absurd...not sure where you read that because I specifically stated that in 30mph I'm on my 7 razor. Regards to my 12...my pigtails on my centers reduced my upper wind range.

If at 10,000 feet (much diminished air density) in deep snow with my center pigtails removed would holding down my 12 be possible...yeah but...it would be survival kiting and terrible...so would I want to? Heck no.
Jeff

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Ssayre, Didn't say I'd choose to hold down my 12 in 30 - I referenced Brad's ability to hold what I'd consider a large amount of kite when I'm on something smaller (we've kited same wind when he was on a 15m speed 3 and I was teaching a buddy to snow kite on a 5.5 meter Apex) so his mileage would vary dramatically. That basically any of the kites he specifically asked for info about (smaller peak sizes) may fit the bill. A 12 is not a high wind kite and there is no way I'd want to kite with mine in 30 - if I gave that impression then yeah - that is absurd...not sure where you read that because I specifically stated that in 30mph I'm on my 7 razor. Regards to my 12...my pigtails on my centers reduced my upper wind range. If at 10,000 feet (much diminished air density) in deep snow with my center pigtails removed would holding down my 12 be possible...yeah but...it would be survival kiting and terrible...so would I want to? Heck no. Jeff

I'm with you Jeff! Survival kiting is right with a 12m P2 in those conditions. It would likely become a Code Brown event for me. You and I likely experience comparable winds (mine being in the Wasatch between 7000 and 9000 where I'm likely snowkiting). I suspect I'll be pulling my 4m P2 out of the bag if the winds include 30+ mph gusts. I figure any conditions that I'm willing to kite in that include 30+ likely have a base wind in the low 20's. Plenty enough for little old me!

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Ssayre, Didn't say I'd choose to hold down my 12 in 30 - I referenced Brad's ability to hold what I'd consider a large amount of kite when I'm on something smaller (we've kited same wind when he was on a 15m speed 3 and I was teaching a buddy to snow kite on a 5.5 meter Apex) so his mileage would vary dramatically. That basically any of the kites he specifically asked for info about (smaller peak sizes) may fit the bill. A 12 is not a high wind kite and there is no way I'd want to kite with mine in 30 - if I gave that impression then yeah - that is absurd...not sure where you read that because I specifically stated that in 30mph I'm on my 7 razor. Regards to my 12...my pigtails on my centers reduced my upper wind range. If at 10,000 feet (much diminished air density) in deep snow with my center pigtails removed would holding down my 12 be possible...yeah but...it would be survival kiting and terrible...so would I want to? Heck no. Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I get it. Just didn't want some poor unsuspecting newbie thinking the peaks are forgiving enough to go straight for the big ones for low and high wind.

As far as a high wind engine, I'm not sure if I would choose 4m peak or not. I so rarely have usable high wind that it's never been a big consideration for me. I will say that single skin is great for unpredictable moderate wind and low wind because they handle lulls so well and are very light. When you get to high wind engines, the single skin becomes less of a consideration and stability / depower becomes the main focus. Not flown the LEI's but it sure looks like those are great performers as you guys in the mountains seam to universally like them and also beamerbob recently in the desert and of course Redsky in his epic 60mph wind and 5m bet waroo video. (I think that was the kite)

The 4m can be used as a high wind kite but it isn't really suited for it. In Peak terms it is the high wind size. And like all Peaks you can dump a ton of power and the 4m can be flown by experienced riders in 30-40kts, heck the Peak 1 and 2 6m can be manageable, even fun in 35kts+ but you spend a good portion of that time dumping power and inducing serious flutter and the accompanying bar feedback which in a longer session, 5-8hrs, becomes pretty fatiguing. But still, it's a riot.

But in general terms, with a factory wind spec of 4-28 kts the Peak 2 4m is not a high wind kite. Not in the same realm as an Ozone Access 4m or 8m Arc or LEI.

Hey all,
No worries Ssayre.
Personally I don't like anything "foily" as my nuker since here high winds usually mean direction shifting gusts. I could imagine the 4 peak being a fluttery monster. Anything serious and I go to my 4.5 meter RPM (used to use the 5.5 Apex)

windstruck-indeed our winds are probably similar! I saw that you are itching to try the skis - HECK yeah-super fun. Hopefully someday our paths will cross!

On second thought, of course I would get a 4m peak if I was in the market for high wind depow. The first thing I would do is put it on handles and short line and unleash it from the shackles of factory control. Then hit the pavement.

Ok, I got a little carried away :D

Actually, the 4m on 15m lines would do a good job in high winds.

Or 3m lines on handle s.

Just want to share my experience and have a question to owners of Peak2.
I have a Peak2 9m and enjoy from 2015. Got it from dealer. I looked to a repair kit on flysurfer website and seems to me I saw a spare depower grey rope. When I got a kite I didn't find that spare rope. Asked dealer who said that I don't need it because those ropes are tested and of a good quality and will last for years.

For the first time I use infinity bar which comes with Peak2 and depower grey rope looks worned out to me after about 20 sessions. I used it on water kitesurfing and doing snowkiting. I'm 70kg, so no extra tension on lines. Take care about equipment.


Is it OK or I have to replace it already? Does anybody else have the same situation?

Hi Lesha, welcome to the forum!

It is OK. Your rope is showing wear but nothing to be concerned about yet. It does take a long time before wear becomes a problem but eventually, especially in conditions where the kite is exposed to sand and water, you will need to replace the line.

We have replacements in stock at HARDWATERKITER.COM but it looks like you are okay for now.

If you want more information about tuning and performance add ons for your Peak 1 please check out our Peak 1 resource page.

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/peak-1-resource-page.html


On a different note, I'm currently making some changes to our old Peak 1 demo. Its already a great kite but I want to make it even more reliable and failure proof. I want to remove the specialized components like the front line leader with the alloy ring so that you can replace it with anything, anywhere. I'm also removing the pulleys. Not that I've had a single issue, just because I think they are a weak link in kites and I have something that will work as well.

Maybe.

Oooh man.... More Peak 1 mods??

Hey, anyone out there with experience flying both the outlaw and the peak? Looks like FS hasn't made updates to the outlaw in a while, but now I'm a little curious whether the design is considered up to date with the rest of the stuff out there in terms of performance. All reviews basically say "yes". I would not be surprised if the peak wind range is much wider, but I guess I'm interested in the comparison to the other open cell foils out there (with the peak in mind). I've also been eyeing small psycho4's which seem like they'd be comparable to speed 3s (one of which I already own and know it well).

The Outlaw has been discontinued for a while now. We sold a few of the last ones the last two winters that were made in Silver Arrow fabric and then they were done. The Psycho 4 has been out of production for a while now as well. As the Speeds kept getting lower and lower AR and becoming more freestyle oriented than speed oriented my guess is there was too much overlap and they opted to dump the Psycho. Faster turning and more grunt IMO which is why I opted to get the P4 over Speeds. The 19m SA DLX was a phenomenal light wind rig and I've put it up against the Speeds up to 21m in light winds and the P4 kills it if the wind is light and dirty. (our wind is always dirty)

In terms of Comparisons between the Peaks and the Outlaw, there really is very little. They are different animals both in design and intended use. The Outlaw was at the time a snow kite designed to be more on the user friendly end of the spectrum with a hint of freestyle kite, essentially a Pulse 2 but in open cell. Not really a touring kite but more of an all rounder. In perfect conditions it can be a great kite. In less than perfect it has shown to be a bit of work. When the winds come up it can be a beast.

The Peaks have always been a purpose built touring kite/beginner kite. It's got a much, MUCH broader wind range than the Outlaw. Though the posted wind ranges for the Peak are pretty conservative in comparison to what we've seen first hand, they still span the wind ranges of about 2 Outlaws.

Both kites have attributes that work for and against. The Peak, it's clearly a weird kite by most standards. Great at what it does but still lacks the smooth silky flight quality of a kite like the Outlaw. Especially and Outlaw DLX.