We have the new Explores in stock and demo. In spite of the lackluster snowkite season here in NE so far, we have been getting the Explores out and
getting some time on them. So far the responses have been very good.
My assessment thus far...
The new Explore V2 is much more refined than the original. When the V1 came out I frankly couldn't stand it. It was literally no better than the
original Flysurfer Peak. It wasn't the worst kite in the world but it was being put into a market where other single skins were much more refined.
The Explore, unlike the Shaman which was essentially a clone of the Peak 3 with some improvements, was designed exclusively by Ozone and based on
their single skin paraglider designs. They essentially scaled-down the glider technology and struggled in the process which is why it was so long to
get to market. And once there, it was as if it was an unfinished product. They were bad enough that I returned the demos that I had as I was also
selling Gin and Flysurfers in the inventory and they flew better and cost less.
The V2 is very much on par with the the current state of the art but has some interesting flight characteristics that I need more time with to really
form a solid opinion on. They did a good job muting the bar feedback when sheeted out though not as smooth as the Shaman 3 or Peak 4, it's still more
than tolerable and really only noticeable fully sheeted out and heavily trimmed. Generally, if I need to depower that much, the minimal flutter is
not much a concern as I'm focused on other things.
The turn rate on the V2s is nothing short of excellent. Faster than the Shaman 3 and possibly the Peak4. I will have the Peaks back in stock soon so
I can do a side by side comparison. The 12m compared to the smaller sizes seems a bit slower than you would expect but is easily on par with other
kites in that size range maybe a bit faster. I can get the other single skins to turn this fast but it usually involves inducing tip stall and the
resulting bleed off in power. The V2 snaps turns and maintains power. This was a hugely pleasant surprise.
BAR PRESSURE IS AMAZING. Flying side by side with the Shaman 3, everyone has been shocked and how light the pressure is on the Explore. Or how high
it is on the Shamans. Generally, I'm a fan of higher bar pressure but when flown side by side, the Explore really is a lot less work, especially when
the wind get rowdy.
Upwind is near identical to the other single skins on the market. Just under the upwind of a kite like the FS Speed 5. Which is actually pretty good
for a low AR touring kite. Downwind it hammers.
Lift. I can say that IMO the lift of the Explore is better than the Shaman and earlier Peaks. Lift and timing are just like any dual skin foil and
the turn rate makes jumping even for a sad sad jumper like myself, intuitive. No doubt. And with the faster turn rate, it's really nice. Power
delivery is smooth and natural.
The Explorer feels much more like a dual skin, looks like a dual skin from a distance due to the amount of camber in the canopy.
We did a light wind test on New Year's Day. Firm surface conditions. Winds were less than 3kts gusting to about 6kts. Did a side-by-side comparison
of the 12m V1 with the 18m Chrono V4. it obviously wasn't as good as the Chrono but I was able to ride (slightly underpowered) and mostly keep up
with the Chrono, though at times at a distance. I'm 200lbs.
During that session, I put a student, with ZERO depow skill and 120lbs on the 12m. She was able to ride with it and use it with surprising success
given her lack of skill and experience. Especially in light winds.
Like most single skins, it's a great budget light wind option though costlier than the competition. Until I get the Peaks in I can't compare it to FS
but compared to the Shaman the build is more robust and I can only assume will be more durable over time.
The safety system is more refined than the Shaman 2 and 3. It doesn't get as messy as the Shaman does. All my personal Shamans and half the demos
were converted to 4-line FLS as the 5th kinda sucked in turbulent winds when it inverts and sometimes when activating the safety. Ever notice the Gin
videos never actually show anyone relaunching the Shaman after using the 5th line safety? The system on the Shaman is great for killing power but it's
clunky. The ReRide on the Explore works very much like the ReRide on Ozone's other offerings and
I am trying to figure out a 4 line setup for the Ozone. Just in case someone wants to go that route and to make it more compatible with more bars.
The Explore 6m in the bag with the booklet is smaller and lighter than the Shaman 3 6m. And the 6m Ozone is standard material for high-wind
durability while the Shaman is ultra-lite. I don't know how Ozone managed it but they did.
The depow is amazing. Better than any single skin I've flown so far. I had a student yesterday on the 6m. She's very petite. I had the 6m Explore V2
trimmed about 1/3. The kite handled like it was not trimmed at all, retained a fast turn rate, etc... After her session, I landed the 12m and took
the 6m she was on. Initially underpowered until I saw that it was still trimmed. I was going just fine but couldn't lean deeply into the harness. I
let the trim out and it came alive. Flew like the 12m with 1/4 trim. But turned like a stunt kite. It was a joy to fly.
Here's a student on the 6m. This was her first day riding. She did amazing and I have to give her a lot of the credit but the V2 emboldened her to
really test the waters and push her comfort zone with minimal apprehension.
Side note, the bar. The bar is great. Well made and clean. Awesome how easy it is to work with. It's going to make my teaching work a lot easier.
And now has a dual center leader which means we can easily install a stopper.
Yesterday was supposed to nuke here. Forecasted winds gusting over 35kts. I was excited to get out and try the 4m as 35kts with my weight is the sweet
spot for that kite. My hope is that it will be a suitable replacement for the 4m Access V6 and 7. Which locally and beyond is the gold standard for
high wind fun.
Unfortunately, we didn't get the winds we were supposed to and we got about 12" of powder. I opted to give it a shot anyway not expecting anything.
To my surprise, I was able to work it and actually get a short powered session out of it. I didn't measure the wind but the other people with me were
lighter and on 12m Speeds 5s, and 6m Peaks and Explore V2s.
When I got tired of zooming that little 4m across the sky I switched to the 12m Explore and rode lazily for a bit. Like the Shamans and the Peaks,
the wind ranges of theses kite in experienced hands is mind-blowing.
If we had a firm surface the 4m would have been a hoot.
Initially, I was not thrilled about the Explore V2. When I unpacked it and saw that the trailing edge lacked the isolators that you find on the Shaman
and the Peak 4 I figure it was just going to feel much like the V1 did. I'm happy to say that this is not the case.
In the small amount of time I've had with them, I've definitely changed my feelings about it. These are my initial thoughts on the Explore V2. If
you can visit, we have them in the demo fleet to try. if you have experience on other single skins, you should come check 'em out.
Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, Flysurfer, HQ kites. www.hardwaterkiter.com 603-986-2784
Some of us used our time and made a real effort to share with the OP what single skins are like in size, power, performance, gusts, useable depower
and wind range, safety and so on and how they DIFFER from twin skins.
To be fair to anyone who reads the Feyd review here: it needs a full disclosure as an outright advertisement on the forum. What's the value
proposition being offered by his review? Feyd is selling them and he realized HIS profit margins are better with the ozone explore than other single
skins and he can drop-ship from the US ozone distributor.
Probably a good single skin. Lame and very manipulative sales tactics and dubious review that is off in lala land with Speed5 comparisons, and
dozens of batty remarks like:
Quote:
When the V1 came out I frankly couldn't stand it.... They were bad enough that I returned the demos
Wow, a
Rob Whittal Ozone mountain touring kite that wasn't good enough for you on your ice lake? But now that you've switched your inventory, the V2 is so
much better at everything compared to other single skins? Seems like Ozone might have changed the name if the product was really that much different;
naming a model a V2 indicates the V1 was good with some refinements.
Quote:
Ever notice the Gin videos never actually show anyone relaunching the Shaman after using the 5th line safety?
For kinda an obscure kite in the US, you sure have a Shaman fixation and a lotta projection going. Both the Peak4 and Shaman3 will
accordion the kite just like the ozone. There are plenty of online videos showing this (Sweet vid with the relaunch at the 1 minute mark):
Quote:
Just under the upwind of a kite like the FS Speed 5
The physics laws of single skins don't even allow for statements like this. The design objective of SS is tons of grunt in a small package; looping
uphill is their forte, which means deep window, not high aspect efficiency.
Quote:
In spite of the lackluster snowkite season here
Quote:
Unfortunately... we got about 12" of powder
Then hold off on giving a review of a way under-powered 4M
that day and go do something like... actually shred some pow for the pure fun of it with a legitimate size kite!
This was a painful and dubious "review" by Hard Water Kiter. The good news is that single skins are a whole different category of kite. Many of us
are doing things in the mountains much more safely because of single skins. Don't get worked up over brands because the physics is inherently the
same among all SS and you'll have fun on any of the current single skins out there.
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
Wow, have to say that's a pretty crazy post and remarks Sojo, commenting on a guy that has actively given so much to the kiting community in so many
ways. Anyone who knows him on PKF knows who he Is and what he does. A solid kite review from a man with so much experience on so many levels in the
kiting community if it helps someone great, if you don't like it move along. Way to much drama for this forum.
Take a few minutes to read the other posts in the thread. They're helpful, unbiased and have no ulterior motive. Maybe Feyd will be more careful
with his write-ups because he isn't the unquestioned authority in my mind- particularly if he is a dealer who has just switched SS brand marketing.
I'm glad he likes the explore. It's just that he didn't like it and now loves it after dumping his previous SS love. Yes, the drama.
Feyd didn't give any objective answers to the OP about the fundamental characteristics of single skins and how they fly different. I would have been
pretty annoyed if no one spoke up and let me know that an 8M single skin isn't the same power if I wanted the approximate equivalent power of an 8M
apex.
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
while I was out asked the guy at the post office to throw each kite on the scale for comparison. The Explore V2 6m in the bag (a bag with straps and
buckles, not just a sack like the Gin) is 3oz lighter than the 6m ShamanV3.
A bag with straps and buckles, not just a sack. Far out.
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
What in the wild world of sports is going on here? Sojourner, did you just come off your meds? Chris (Feyd) is a good man and a solid contributor
here on PKF. I don't want to bother going back to your 5 earlier posts, and if they're anything like your latest three in this thread I want nothing
to do with them.
Well, kites are dang expensive and people are hoping to find the least biased review possible. There was a productive general conversation going and
then Feyd posted his written commercial intended to smear other brands. Some of us are spending our hard-earned money on kites, not making money off
off them. Just a slight question of ethics.
I'd like to see Feyd post about the Longstar or Racestar in the same "this explore V2 is so much better than that Born kite" style review, all while,
as a dealer, he makes false remarks about the Born kites. Unfortunately, he has written an advertisement built upon disparaging other brands so that
folks will buy what he is selling.
No doubt the explore is a good SS, but why try so hard to write about it as better than something else?
The irony of all this is that I may be one of his past model SS customers who really likes my kite but can see he is deliberately trying to suck the
air out of other models.
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
Wow. Ya so that got a little crazy. Not sure what got Sojourner worked up; I did notice HWK no longer has Gin stuff on his website, so maybe he's
implying a bias there?
I know that most of what I knew about Gin Shamans - before actually getting to fly one - came from this forum, and that included Feyd's excellent
writeup on the Shaman V2 which I found really informative. Most or all of the folks on this forum who had flown the kites had universally positive
things to say about them. When I had the chance to fly an 8m Peak4 and a 9m Shaman V2, I personally preferred the Shaman a little more, but
differences were subtle and both were great. I never had a chance to fly an Explore V1.
Feyd's review of the Explore V2 had quite a few references to the Shaman, so I might add add a few notes to those comments, only because that's the
only thing I really have experience with. I'd like to try to bring everyone back together so we can have a group hug and move on. Windstruck is
right - these are only kites.
The Explore v2 looks like it is going to be a great kite. Its good to see more options on the market. I don't think we live in a blind kite
development environment; if the Shaman was clone of the Peak3, I know Gin would argue that the Peak4 was a clone of the Shaman 2/3 - with the closed
tips being their big claim to fame that seemed to have legitimate benefits.
The Shaman IMO does not use lightweight fabrics - that was one thing that stood out to me when I first tried it out. It uses Porcher Skytex 38, which
is Porcher's regular-weight fabric [Skytex is made in 40(for ribs), 38(regular), 32 (lite), and 27 (UL)]. The Explore V2 uses 20D on the larger 8 -
12m sizes and 30D for the 4 and 6m sizes. 20D is normally considered a UL material, and 30D a lite material - with 40D being kind of "regular". So
it makes sense to me that the Explore V2 is lighter w/ a smaller pack size - although I might be inclined to think that the Skytex 38 would be a
little more durable over time, if that was a big concern for someone.
AS far as 5th line safety on the Shaman 3 - I've found it to work really well. My understanding is that the 5th line was one of the big changes
between the v2 and v3 - with the v2 doing more of a flagoutish type 5th line. On the V3 it uses a ring system that both accordions the kite and kind
of folds it in half spanwise. Gin's new bar (just released in the last few months) has also moved to what seems to be the new standard "click-in"
chickenloop. I have some pretty boring video of what I believe was literally my 1st flight on the 6m Shaman3, and you can see a 5th line test there at
the 4:54 minute mark:
It sounds like the Explore V2 is higher AR than many of the previous SS kites and that it is paying legitimate benefits. Windstruck, it would be
great if you could get your hands on one at some point and test it against your Racestar! That's another kite that gets too often overlooked it seems
- would love to try one at some point.
Overall, I'm glad to see these companies challenging each other in development (and hopefully in cost too!) - I think it can only mean good things for
the customers. I have a buddy who recently got a 12m Explore V2, so I'll be sure to post my thoughts if I get a chance to ride it. Otherwise, I look
forward to hearing other people's thoughts on these kites.
Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils. http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Marabou
Skis: Something w/ Marker Baron or Duke Bindings
Boards: Litewave Wing, Naish Jet 2000, OR Mako 140
Nice job Nate trying to bring this all together. Group hug would be nice, and I for one would like to include sojourner. Dude - I was harsh on you
above with my "meds" comment. Hair comes up on my neck when it seems like folks are outright accusing others of being dishonest, blatantly biased,
whatever on this forum. There is so terribly much negativity on the web these days; I love coming to our kiting site and exhaling a happy sigh and
think about kiting for a while. In this particular case I happen to feel that Feyd deserves defending. I've done business with him, spoken a lot on
the phone with him, gotten tons of great advice from him, and while I've never shaken the man's hand, I like to think I'm a pretty good judge of
character, and how you are characterizing him doesn't synch with my impressions, not even close.
Now, about those RaceStars, and particularly those RaceStar+ kites! I would love to test them against all other said SS's, particularly the latest
iterations of the now plethora of kites to choose from. I'm thrilled that SSs are seeing a resurgence of late. If more of my kiting were up in Oregon
on the beach I'd be very willing to lend mine out and would also happily try others. Much of my kiting, however, is on Ivanpah and the surface is so
harsh on kites that I neither lend my kites there nor borrow others. Too big a chance of inadvertent damage putting tension into valuable friendships.
I've owned Peak2, Peak3, and Peak4 kites (bought from Feyd!) and have a pretty good feel for them in the buggy. The RaceStar and RaceStar+ offer
significantly greater upwind clawing capability. They are vastly more responsive with their aggressive 6:1 AR as you'd expect. In the smaller 3 and 5m
sizes in high winds they can be darn right scary at first.
I would not say they pull any harder square meter for square meter that Peaks. I say that because once up in Oregon on a very long beach run I had a
11m RaceStar up and Eric and John both had 12 Peaks up and I couldn't quite keep up with them. Almost, but not quite. They were in larger more stable
buggies than me and their tires were ribbed while mine where smooth Bigfoot's but still the Peak 12 seemed to move them a touch faster than my
RaceStar 11.
I would love to get to try one of the Born kites, simply because he has stayed passionate about single skins from the start.
We're in a golden age of Single Skins and a diversity of options is what we hope for. We are having more fun in more places with skis and kites
because of the developments in single skins. I wanted to share the fun and maybe some lessons learned with the OP. Attempting to equivocate SS kites
into absolute comparative statements of power and character is a red herring, because as Windstruck mentioned, it could be the surface, kiter style,
other gear or even just personal preference. (Even Flysurfer admits that the peak4 5M is actually larger, but it's sized for the correct spacing in
their Peak4 line, so sizes are not meant to be absolute facts. Also, for example, the 5M and 8M in the same line up have very different flying
characteristics.)
As far as buying decisions go, if you have, say, a 10M Access or Apex and need a higher wind kite, then buying a 6M
explore/peak/shaman/firefly/lonestar is the "intuitive" choice, HOWEVER, you'll end up with basically the exact same power as the kite you already
own. This fact was going unaddressed in the OP's inquiry and it seems that as a community, PKF should be focused on getting a user the appropriate
kite, not just a brand. So, in real world terms, the forum can save folks a lot of consternation and anxiety (and maybe a minor mental break down) in
dropping $1200+ and not effectively rounding out their quiver. Not too many of us are dentists and it took me years to get to where I could buy the
kites I want. An ounce of prevention through good kite advice can save a lot on those psych meds.
I didn't get the local USPS postmaster at my little post office to weigh kites for me, but I did manage to weigh an 8M Peak4 and an 11M Frenzy, which
in my opinion have comparable power. But it's not the weight of the kite that matters nearly as much as developments and design trajectory across all
BC ski gear that makes the weight issue add up to a matter of consequence. I know what 3oz is lol and it was given with an intention to make an
assessment sound technically detailed.
11m Frenzy on Bar= 122oz. 8M Peak4 on carbon center-drilled MTB bar ($25 bucks)= 55oz
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
The physics laws of single skins don't even allow for statements like this. The design objective of SS is tons of grunt in a small package; looping
uphill is their forte, which means deep window, not high aspect efficiency.
This is not necessarily true.
At the low reynolds numbers that kites operate at, the profile doesn't matter too much for efficiency. Some of the best profiles for low reynolds
number are actually very flat. The biggest reason for lost efficiency on a single skin is the hooked training edge required to maintain chordwise skin
tension. Double surface wings use the high pressure at the inlets to maintain skin tension, which is usually the lower drag option. There are some
clever canopy deformation tricks single skins can employ for depower that reduce drag while still maintaining skin tension. With all the development
ozone has done on paragliders and kites, it wouldn't surprise me if they developed something that approached a freestyle kite in upwind ability.
Also, single skins often have more grunt deep in the window due to having a much higher drag coefficient at high angles of attack than double surface
wings. In the power zone, it acts more like a drag parachute than a wing. Not really a design goal just a byproduct of the hooked trailing edge and
cambered profile.
Arcs - Charger I 8m, 10m, 12m, Venom I 13m - F-Arc 1200, 1600
Single Skin - Born-Kite LongStar2
Fixed Bridles - Pansh Legend 4.5m - Peter Lynn Voltage 3m
So essentially, the SS needs the trailing edge to act as a scoop to create the "air foil", somewhat correct? I assume this is part of the reason SS
have more drag and sit further back in the window, and probably don't penetrate as far into the window. My guess work doesn't extend beyond seeing
the "hooked" trailing edge. For now, this is a great benefit in gusts and stability.
Hearing that there is potential for higher efficiency is exciting news. I agree that the upwind of SS is completely functional, but when I switch back
to even a medium-aspect twin skin, it feels like I'm shooting upwind with a lot less edging.
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
Notice how the trailing edge curves toward the bridles? That is is the "hook". Other designs have a more subtle hooks and some the profile smoothly
rolls into it at a high angle of attack, like this nasa star
If you lose skin tension, you can get flapping, especially with agressive hook like on the longstar. On the explore the trailing edge looks like it is
billowing out alot, which makes me think that they maintain tension by having alot of hook under the rear bridle lines and almost none in the other
areas. Just a guess though.
Hey Snake, I appreciated reading your inputs - they got me thinking about a lot of different things.
Out of curiosity, what do you consider low Reynolds numbers? I was doing a little bit of crunching for my standard winter conditions and kite sizes
here in CO, and getting Re numbers in the 200,000 to 1,300,000 range - which I'm not sure I would categorize as being low. The only reason I'm asking
is that I was doing some recent reading about airfoil characteristics at low Reynolds numbers, and it kind of lined up with some of the stuff you were
mentioning. But it was dealing with Re numbers in the 10,000 to 100,000 range. This won't be everybody's cup of tea, but the report is here: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/1.C034415
The figure that really got my attention was this one (Figure 1):
That figure highlights the fact that the lift/drag efficiency for "traditional" airfoils degrades significantly at low Reynolds numbers, and kind of
to your point, flat surfaces actually become more efficient. That took me by surprise. I guess I was wondering if this was the sort of thing you
were alluding to. It sounds like you may have some experience with this.
For the larger audience - Reynolds number is a number that's important for understanding things like fluid flow around objects and airfoils - it kind
of takes all the important pieces of information like Air density, speed, size of the object and viscosity (think stickiness of the fluid ie peanut
butter vs oil vs water vs air) - and rolls them into one big dimensionless number. This number is important because it gives you an idea of how your
object (in our case, a kite wing) is going to behave - like if you can expect to have turbulent or laminar (smooth) air flow. At a basic level, you
can kind of think of the reynolds number as a drop of water rolling down the tip of your finger - if its moving slowly (low Reynolds number) it will
actually stay attached and make the turn at the tip of your finger quite a ways before falling off. If the drop is moving really quickly it will
detach much sooner. A little bit of a clunky analogy, but maybe helpful. Or here is what it means with regards to an actual sphere:
Sorry if this is way off-topic and useless; I just found Snake's comments very interesting and didn't want to leave other people out of the
conversation.
Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils. http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Marabou
Skis: Something w/ Marker Baron or Duke Bindings
Boards: Litewave Wing, Naish Jet 2000, OR Mako 140
Go off topic by all means! I'm a scientist by training, but I'm trained in the biological sciences. I love getting a peek (just the tip, just to see
how it feels) into whole other scientific worlds, particularly when they are relevant to things I'm interested in.
Learning more about Reynolds is new ground for me. As a common man, Bernie would probably tell me to be progressive upwind that what you have to see
is a bit of an entrenched power structure system issue?
It's the lack of structure on a SS that means less upwind but also makes it perfect for shedding gusts, being stable, forgiving, (and highly
pack-able), which is what the OP was hoping to find in his next kite.
It seems that a hang glider is a rigid structure Single Skin, and on 25 meter lines, you could probably go upwind like you were tied to a soviet
rocket. How you would launch and land it would be a bit of a problem, eh? Then you have inflatables, which are single skins that get their structure
from an external work input of manually pumping up tubes and struts and maybe they have a few bridle lines also. The wave kites with less struts
don't have the same upwind, or so I hear. A standard ram air twin skin has a fair amount of structure with ribbing, bridles, etc. Generally more
cells makes a more rigid wing that goes more upwind. The Olympic race foils have leading edge stiffeners. The more structure, the greater ability to
push to the very edge of the wind window and maximize upwind.
I think what Snake was stating about the trailing edge is exactly what I see. On a single skin, there is very little wind penetration structure, even
with all the bridles. The leading edge and the trailing edge both curve inward to trap air, which I think is what creates the actual air foil. The
trailing edge dams up air, pressurizing the "nose" of the kite, giving the single skin it's structure. The leading edge stiffeners seem to bear out
that structure is necessary to transform fabric into a wing. (When shopping, I was actually hoping to find a SS without any stiffeners for
pack-ability, but only the NPW are without them it seems).
Now that ultra-upwind hang glider on 25m lines would be useless to me in the mountains because a slight flying error while climbing the shallowest
grade hill would send me airborne with it's glide ratio. Then you have the current single skins, which have been purpose built for ski touring in the
mountains. The grunty power is what it's all about. Less lift, more drag and smaller surface area make them much safer. The upwind is an
intentional trade off to provide more pull in a smaller wing.
For flatter ground winter traveling, ozone offers the Chrono expedition, which lends to my point that the single skins don't provide the upwind of a
speed5.
To further support my guesswork on structure, I think I read that the Racestar+ has additional stiffeners.
Wanted to chime in that the drag of of SS is part of what makes them the right tool for their intended job. Hoping to learn more about the theoretical
effeciency potential of single skins and Reynolds.
The "hooked" trailing edge must be creating a fair amount of drag, but it is the very factor that gives the wing it's structure. Now the part I don't
fully understand is whether dammed air is "100%" trapped and is now the bottom surface "skin". It seems like this is where the fluid flow dynamic
part comes into play on whether a single skin can theoretically come close to a ram foil.
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
Sojourner - yes, Snake had some great points about the hooked edge and the camber causing additional drag; but as you pointed out it's necessary in
order for the SS kites to keep their shape. And to your point, there is some stagnant air behind the leading edge very similar to an inflatable kite
that will create kind of a virtual underskin but also cause some more drag. With the right mindset, all these unique characteristics can be taken
advantage of and seen as benefits - things like good drift and stability. I thought his comment about a single skin acting more like a drag
parachute in the power zone was really accurate. As with anything, a characteristic that makes it good at one thing will likely make it less-good at
another - so it's all about figuring out what's most important for you.
The Reynolds number stuff - honestly is probably more navel-gazing than anything else. It gives you some insights on how airflow will stay attached
to the wing surface, and might help you anticipate some of the wing/kite behavior a little bit - but really without test data, it's kind of useless.
You can muse about theoretical Reynolds numbers all you want, but until you go out and test it, you're really not going to have a feel for what's
actually going on. In fact, probably the biggest use for Reynolds number is that there are libraries of airfoils that have been tested - normally in
wind tunnels- at different Re numbers (think different sizes and speeds). They then make plots of the airfoil behavior at these different Reynolds
numbers - like how the lift and drag and stalling point change. For instance, Re number can actually have a pretty significant impact on when the
airfoil will stall. Anyhoo - if you were thinking of using that airfoil, then you would want to match the Re data for the Re number you think you'd
be operating in. But that's probably way more about Re numbers than anyone cares about.
But back to more interesting stuff! A little anecdotal story to get us talking about single skins again: I had the chance recently
to snowkite with my 4m SS in some pretty stiff winds - I'm sure it was gusting over 30kts at times. It was kind of a surreal and bizarre experience
that had me giggling to myself most of the time I was out. I told my friend who was out there with me that I felt like I was on a Segway - that was
the best way I could describe it. The kite was so ridiculously benign that it became kind of transparent to the overall experience. It didn't feel
like I was snowkiting as much as that I had just strapped some sort of motor to my skis. The 4m seemed to have noticeably less lift than the 6m - I
tried jumping with it, and even in the stronger winds it was a complete fail. I noticed I was standing much more upright and not really leaning
against the kite; as a result, it was a totally different feel than normal - much more of a traditional ski feeling. It was kind of letting me motor
around anywhere I wanted to on this semi-flat terrain - upwind, directly downwind - it didn't really care. Work yourself into a boxed into a fence
corner? No worries, just turn the 4m Segway around and go back out. More than any other time I've been out - it felt like the kiting was completely
secondary to actual skiing - allowing you to lay down serpentine tracks wherever you wanted to. Such a weird - but enjoyable sensation. I just
couldn't stop laughing.
There must not be a lot of snow here in Colorado, because I never write this much on PKF, ha! Hopefully, Rectifier will get his 6m Explore V2 soon
and then post here to get things back on track....
Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils. http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Marabou
Skis: Something w/ Marker Baron or Duke Bindings
Boards: Litewave Wing, Naish Jet 2000, OR Mako 140
That sounds like such a fun day on a single skin. Getting out on skis and having times like that are what it's all about! I may take some photos to
bring some current, real-life winter fun to this thread.
The cultural significance of this shakespearean/quixotic thread...
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
I've been busy farming and battling the snow after a couple blizzards (lots in the yard, lots in the corrals, NONE on the fields for riding ) and my thread has been busy!
I, on the other hand, still don't have my new kite. Canada always gets the short end of the stick. But it's good to hear you got a hold of yours, Feyd
- and I would love to visit and fly one, but am a couple thousand kilometers away with livestock to feed. After reading your review I REALLY want to
get a hold of this thing and fly it. The review to me sounds like a guy who is excited about a new kite model... I've read many of Feyd's posts and
reviews over the years and he's always come off as honest and passionate about kiting. That's all I'll say to that part of the discussion.
Great to hear that they have refined the v2 since a lot of people agreed the v1 was excessively flappy, and that a 120lb rider can control it
properly. That means the bar throw should be plenty for my short arms. I agree sometimes it's nice to have more bar pressure, especially when you end
up on your back in powder and "rowing" the bar to get back up - light bar pressure feels weird and slack in this scenario. But for general riding
light pressure really lets you float the bar to eat up the gusts better. Sounds great and thanks for posting what is currently one of the only Explore
v2 videos on the internet.
Ozone kites are supposed to be coming in February. I'm now getting a light blue since after another region poached our kite order (kind of like what's
happened to our vaccine, but I won't get into that) the factory agreed to ship some from their custom colour stock to get us flying. So that's cool -
as long as I get my kite before the snow melts, that is.
I was watching a video, and a random kite I had never seen caught my eye.
I'll be danged if it wasn't a
Quote:
single skin that is 8m and can be zipped down to 6m.
Normally I'd think it was a gimmick. However, the
video showed this kite gliding next to Ozone's and Flysufer's best snowkiters, respectively. A 6m and 8m in one kite, that was holding it's ground
with Johann Civel and Lolo. https://youtu.be/mr05_i2dSS4
If it's not windy I ride the T-bar with my kiting harness
That's an awesome idea, if it holds up. Zippers have a bad habit of popping open in the cold, and having your kite suddenly change size (or half
change size, or split in half) would make for exciting flying! Don't think I would dare glide with something like this like the guys in the video.
The kite in that video could also be the S1 touring which is the same thing without the zippers. I just had to see this in action, here's a video of
it being changed in size: https://youtu.be/c9AfrtCHPGI
Weird setup and I really wonder how it performs, especially considering you change the AR of the kite so much. This might be why it has a simple
profile like the original Peak and no inflated cells.
I also don't like how the unused bridles go through the zipper, seems to be asking for chafing. Still, great to see a company try something completely
different.
Still waiting for my kite but it's -35 this week so it's not that bad to stay inside.
![[*]](images/perspective/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
) and my thread has been busy!
