Another noob here asking the same question, what kite to buy. I've been reading for dozens of hours the last couple weeks, but I'm a typical sufferer
of analysis paralysis and hoping for a push. Even though I've read enough to know the answer borders on "they're all great kites," certain statements
here and there make it hard to decide.
I've decided on a 3M as per the usual recommendation, but unsure of model.
Where are you? Southeast Michigan
Where do you fly? Inland park is most convenient, some beaches when I can.
What kiting experience do you already have? Flown Prism Synapse 170 a few times, only one day with good pulling winds.
What aspect of powerkiting are you interested in? Strictly static. I injure easily and the remoteness of traction sport locations would make it too
rare for the expense. I like the pull of static, and some stunting is interesting too.
What are your local winds like? Google says Detroit area avg 9mph. The one good day was a bit gusty.
How much do you weigh? 6'2", 200lbs.
What kind of budget are you looking at? I can go in the $300+, but everyone loves a bargain.
The main choices are (and not all may be accurate as I read things here and there, cluttered by different model years, opinions, etc.):
Peter Lynn Hornet 3M. Good all around, handles gusts, A/R 3.0, best look IMO. Some statements lead me to believe it's more boring than others,
perhaps because of the lower aspect ratio.
HQ Beamer 3M. Good all around, always recommended, A/R 3.5, OK design. Higher friction in lines so able to get fewer twists? Less gust control may
pull me off my feet, roll an already less than stellar ankle.
PKD Buster Soulfly Pro 3.3M. Good all around, good bargain (though I never see prices to know how good), A/R 3.4, OK design. 3.3 too big? Lower
price because of fewer features (ex. no sewn bridles)? I really don't know if this is "better" than others or people just like the equal quality at
lower a price, but people seem to be big fans.
These come up the most and so I really didn't want to continue further analysis into the other options of Fexifoil Rage, Skydog, Prism Tensor, etc. I
like the Tensor look and handle/bar combo, but that's probably not needed and not many talk the Tensor up.
Some day I may venture into a smaller foil for more speed/stunt, a Rev, or make a Symphony 2.2.4, but for now I think a 3M is a good start. May pick
up a Symphony Beach 2.2 as an in-betweener on the cheap, but may disagree once I try a 4 line.
Sorry for the novel, and I appreciate any help even though I think the "you'll be happy with any of them" will be true. Not a big kite area, so
nowhere to try before I buy.
My personal opinion is that you are right, they are all very similar kites designed for exactly what you want to use them for.
Friction in lines that you mentioned makes no difference. The difference between 3 and 3.3 meters makes very little difference. Sewn bridles? You'll
never notice.
I would take a look at price, the quality of the bag, kite killers and ground stake. I've had lots of experience with Beamers and found the quality
of the bag, handles, kite killers and ground stake to be very good. The PKD stuff is allright, but not as good. For example, the PKD kite killers
are more awkward to put on since you lay the strap across your wrist and then lay the other velcro strap across it, all one handed. The HQ killers
stay in a circle, you put your wrist through and then pull it tight. Way nicer. At least that's the way it was last time I was using kite killers a
lot, you can research this yourself.
Welcome to PKF Mich! May you enjoy true traction kiting as much as the rest of us! I was a static flyer for many years and always really liked it.
The 3m (or thereabouts) size you have landed on in your mind is "right-sized" for your needs and size. When the wind picks up you'll find yourself
sitting down and digging in your heels into the grass to resist its force.
You certainly can't go wrong with any of the kites you are considering. Jim brought up some great points about considering the whole kit. Good stuff.
I'll throw one extra small wrench into the situation. You may want to take a gander at the 2.5m Peter Lynn Uniq Quad. This will check all the boxes
for a good basic static flyer and is made by the same folks (and has the same level of quality) as the Hornet. Two things put it in play IMHO for
your needs. First, it will be much lighter and smaller packed up. No, the other kites aren't big and heavy, but why not take small and light when
you can get it? Second, and this may be a bigger deal, the Uniq Quad is a so-called "single skin" or SS kite. The others you are considering are
so-called "foil" kites consisting of two skins separated with internal baffling. Think down sleeping bag. The advantage of SS in your hands will be
that it will not react to being driven into the ground (again and again). When you are learning that will happen (again and again). SS kites by
their very nature don't have "cells" to explode while foil kites do. A foil kite inflates to create a more or less rigid three dimensional shape in
the air when filled with air and pulling hard on the lines. If you smash it full speed into the ground nose first like a Kamikaze on his final flight
you may burst a cell in the foil. Not guaranteed but it can happen and will suck. There aren't any cells to burst in a SS kite so pile drive it into
the ground at will.
One downside of SS kites versus foils is that SS kites need more extensive bridling (the little strings on the kite itself) to form and maintain its
structure in the air. Those bridles can tangle and take a little (frustrating) time to sort out. Foils tend to have fewer and shorter bridle lines
than SS kites which is nice. I'd also mention that the "wind window" is a bit smaller for the Uniq Quad than, for example, the PL Hornet. As a
static flyer that likely won't matter much, but a larger wind window will make for a wider arc of powered flying as you fly the kite back and forth.
Like anything, SS versus foil is a trade off. Just food for thought. If you go foil you will be well served. I'm a particular fan of SS kites and
just felt duty bound to bring them up! Good luck, please wear a helmet, and have fun!
As a noob myself I can tell you these folks here have been great patiently answering all my(many) questions
and giving great advice.
I started with a Symphony 2.2, still have it and love to fly it in high winds. Just bought a quiver of Rages. Excellent quality and on sale(kite
only). I will agree on the 3/3.5 range as a good all around kite. Buy what you want/ like that is a good quality. You will have it a long time.
Go right for the 4 liners with handles and master them(Im working on it) Thats pretty much the basis of it all. Just watch your winds with a 3+ at
first. If they kick up or are gusty you may have a wild ride. A 3+ will fly in lighter winds, a good place to start. I like my 3.5.
I'm also relatively new to quad line power kiting (about 2 years but I'm retired and able to put in lots of flying time), only fly static, and am an
inland flyer (variable and gusty winds).
You can tell from my signature what's in my quiver. I also have a full set of HQ Symphony Pro dual line foils and a PL Vibe II 2.6. I started on dual
line about 4 years ago and still use the dual line foils to teach beginners. The advantage of having different sizes is you can adjust to different
wind conditions.
My first quad line was the HQ Beamer V 4m. I'm 5' 8" and 155lbs. It's slow and stable which is good for beginners and gusty winds. There were a couple
of times when the wind picked up that the kite was too much to handle; however, the key is to figure out your limits, know when to avoid the power
zone, and pack up to fly another day. It's part of the learning process.
If you can find someone else in your area that is a more experienced pilot, that's a better way to go. I've been lucky to have a few experienced
mentors who have helped me and let me fly their kites. Hopefully someone may shake out in your area due to your post here.
You are probably right about the 3m size to start.
I haven't had any issues with the build quality of the Beamer. I haven't owned a PL Hornet, but do have a Voltage (and Vibe II). From my limited
sample set I'd say the PL kites are built better (like tanks) but sometimes need more wind and fly a bit sluggish. I've considered getting a 3m Hornet
myself mainly to teach beginners.
I don't fly the Beamer much anymore. I would use it to teach beginners if the wind is lighter.
You might want to consider the Rage, probably a 2.5. The Rage is more fun to fly than the Beamer IMO. I have an original version 2.5 and a Rage II
1.8. I'd say the build quality is better on the original version but the Rage II is still good. Both have mesh on the leading edge which helps the
cells to stay open. The Rage II has an AOA bridle adjustment which requires a bit of experimentation to figure out, but starting out you don't need to
mess with it. Surprisingly I still get lots of use out of the 1.8. When the wind picks up and I'm tired of battling my other larger kites, I break out
the 1.8. You've probably noticed the Rage II is available on Amazon (not the 3.5). It's kite only, so you would need to get handles and lines
elsewhere.
Obviously the advantage of the Beamer or Hornet is they are RTF (ready to fly).
Hopefully some that helps. If you end up liking quad line power kiting you'll have a new time and money sink.
Have you considered a Spiderkites Smithi? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBAyb19p_Y
If you are into stunting, it would be a great choice! It has a nice pull to it when winds pick up, (although it is more for stunting than for power).
I've owned a 3m Hornet and have nothing bad to say about it. It's a nice, well behaved kite. Excellent quality as always with Peter Lynn. Having only
a 3m will leave you wanting more kites so you might just have to get a 2m, then a 4m, 5m to compliment it
Take a look at Flexifoil Rages. 2.5m/3.5m sizes are perfect and have enough pull to drag you around.
Other options include Ozone Flow, Imp, Method, (these are discontinued so be on the lookout for when they pop up).
Buying used kites will give you a chance to catch a bargain so I suggest looking around PKF first and check classifieds frequently. Good luck with
your search!
Jimbocz, you make a great point. If they're all good kites, I should look at what may separate them on other levels as opposed to imagining a minor
detail greatly effecting flight. Price, quality of the accessories, looks, etc. may be a deciding factor.
Windstruck, I had actually considered the Uniq Quad because of it's durability. When I originally researched it I put it aside for two reasons. One,
I didn't see anyone selling it in the States for quick and cheap shipping (any overseas shops worth buying from?). And two, I had read mention of
it's limited window, which I believe was indeed straight from you. That turned
me off more since my wind days seemed weak as they were and thought a good window would increase my flyable days. Would that be accurate?
I haven't bombed the Synapse into the ground since day one. 3rd time out I was diving and turning at last second. My friend however continually bombs
my Synapse, so not letting her near the quad for awhile if I go with cells.
Oldben, you're right this is a great forum and I've seen a lot of great and patient answers. I saw the Rage on sale at Amazon and was about to bite
the other day until I saw that it was kite only. I tried to price out the full cost with lines and handles, and it brought it back up to around $320.
Which was the same as the RTF 3M Hornet and Beamer, but at the reduced 2.5m size. Question though, if I bought one of the 3M RTF kites, could I use
their lines/handles for the 2.5M Rage? Or do they not all have the same type of bridles and connections? Because it might be a good heavier wind
kite to build a quiver with while on sale. Not sure how much of a hassle it is to disconnect and reconnect lines to various kites though.
MadHungarian, thanks for the info. Do you think your Rage is more fun than the Beamer because of the 4M size, making it more sluggish? Is the Rage
on Amazon the II? I'm not sure what AOA bridle adjustment is. I've been spending a lot of time reading and trying to pick a kite that I haven't
gotten into the details yet. I like the idea of adding a Rage, especially if I can use lines from an RTF kite I may buy.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any kiters while out, no talk in local area, and nothing for sale on Craigslist to suggest there is a local following.
Being in Michigan by lakes there is kite surfing, but haven't seen any static kites. I'd love to find some MI folks in the area.
Hi IFlyKites, I have considered the Smithi. Seemed like another one devoid from retailers in the States. Plus, I wasn't sure if I wanted to
concentrate on Power or Stunting for now. Ultimately I sided towards power for the pull and exercise as I consider a lot of stunting as well. Then
when I have some practice in to where I can stunt better, may look into things like the Rev.
Do you think a 2.5M Rage has about the same pull as a 3M Hornet/Beamer? Aspect ratio is closer to the Beamer, so I imagine it gains a little even
with smaller size.
The Imp Quattro was one of my first considered as I first stumbled upon AWindOfChange when looking to upgrade to 4 line. Of course as a noob I looked
at price, not knowing which were the most recommended. The Imp was one of the cheaper ones. That site seems to sell all of the outdated models, as
even the Beamer and Hornet are previous gen. Not saying that's a bad thing as I don't really know the differences between them.
I've been checking PKF For Sale and craigslist every day, so far nothing in the range I'm looking.
As far as the Rages they all can fly on the same lines or any lines of proper poundage and equal length. If you dont have a 4 line set you can
probably scare a set up here.
I have the 1.8, 2.5, and 4.7 Rage. The 3.5 is non existant at the moment. My 3.5 is a Cross Quattro. Its a cheaper kite but it flies well. A bit more
sedate than the Rage 2.5. Havent flown the 4.7 yet. The Triple A adjuster is pretty cool in that it allows adjustment of the kites power/flying
characteristics. All mine came with it.
I also have an older Beamer 5m. Havent flown it yet either but it seems a bridle party compared to my other kites. I believe the newer series has
reduced bridles.
Hi IFlyKites, I have considered the Smithi. Seemed like another one devoid from retailers in the States. Plus, I wasn't sure if I wanted to
concentrate on Power or Stunting for now. Ultimately I sided towards power for the pull and exercise as I consider a lot of stunting as well. Then
when I have some practice in to where I can stunt better, may look into things like the Rev.
Do you think a 2.5M Rage has about the same pull as a 3M Hornet/Beamer? Aspect ratio is closer to the Beamer, so I imagine it gains a little even
with smaller size.
The Imp Quattro was one of my first considered as I first stumbled upon AWindOfChange when looking to upgrade to 4 line. Of course as a noob I looked
at price, not knowing which were the most recommended. The Imp was one of the cheaper ones. That site seems to sell all of the outdated models, as
even the Beamer and Hornet are previous gen. Not saying that's a bad thing as I don't really know the differences between them.
I've been checking PKF For Sale and craigslist every day, so far nothing in the range I'm looking.
The 2.5m Rage flies quickly through the window and you will gain more pull through speed and as you work it. I would say the 2.5m Rage is equivalent
to a 3m Hornet in terms of pull.
Personally, if I were to get only one static flying kite, it would have to be either the Flexifoil Rage 2.5m or a Peter Lynn ViperS 2.6m. Reason being
is it will allow you to fly in higher winds later on, once you learn to fly it in lighter winds.
It may not drag you in lighter winds but it will still be fun to fly and teach you the power that power kites can generate. Don't be fooled by 2m
kites, they can bite!
You can't go wrong with any of the 3m kites you mentioned.
Windstruck, I had actually considered the Uniq Quad because of it's durability. When I originally researched it I put it aside for two reasons. One,
I didn't see anyone selling it in the States for quick and cheap shipping (any overseas shops worth buying from?). And two, I had read mention of
it's limited window, which I believe was indeed straight from you. That turned
me off more since my wind days seemed weak as they were and thought a good window would increase my flyable days. Would that be accurate?
Ahh, you are a close scholar of these fine pages. Yes, it was me that wrote about the comparatively small wind window of the Uniq Quad.
Please appreciate that my comments at the time were geared towards its utility as I perceived it as a means of motive power, not for static flying.
For static purposes as you are stating is how you will be using these fine kites you are choosing among, I for one don't think that a slightly
diminished wind window would be a deterrent. Wind window and reaction of wind strength don't really have much to do with each other, btw, rather, the
width of the wind window for a static flyer will be in how the pull feels on the handles as you sweep the kite back and forth downwind from where you
are standing or sitting. The wider the wind window the broader a sweep you'll be able to achieve with reasonable pull on the lines. The Uniq Quad
IMO had a band of high power about 90 degrees wide (or thereabouts) and then it dropped off as you swept it farther and farther to one side or the
other. The 4m Hornet which I owned at the time (my Uniq Quad was a 4.5m) seemed to have a broader window of strong pull when I flew it static.
Without the two kites to compare back to back with each other I'm not sure if I would have reacted to the Uniq's window. I was actively looking for
differences between those two kites so I may have been nitpicking a bit.
It is the Rage II being sold on Amazon. As was stated, the 3.5 is out of stock.
I fly my Rages on HQ line sets and handles that came with the Beamer and Toxic. Works fine. Not much of a hassle to change out the kite you are flying
on the line set. I typically don't do it in the field but you can.
Yes, I find the Rage 2.5 and more so the 1.8 to be more zippy and nimble than the Beamer 4m.
Buying either a 3m Beamer or Hornet RTF will get you started. You'll have a line set then. Then you can consider buying kite only after that. The Rage
2.5 is going to be close to a 3m Beamer or Hornet, so you might think about a 1.8 for days when the wind is stronger.
You can make yourself crazy weighing all the options.
My first kite was a Beamer. I really enjoy it still. Good quality kite. I can't speak to the others as I've never flown them. I wouldn't worry about
blowing out cells to much. If you'd seen how many times I've pile drived my Beamer into the ground you'd think I was chopping wood with it. Haha. I
also have an HQ Alpha. It's nothing fancy but it's cheap and it's a fun kite to fly. It's mostly for the kids. But I enjoy it too and I think they've
chopped a lot of wood with that kite. If I may suggest though. Buy a used one. You can usually pick up a used kite for almost half the price as a new
one. And they fly the same for less money. Although there is something to be said about the crispy crinkle of a new kite, Hehe! I don't think you'd be
disappointed in any of the kites you've mentioned.
I wouldn't worry about blowing out cells to much. If you'd seen how many times I've pile drived my Beamer into the ground you'd think I was chopping
wood with it.
That's a good visual right there!
I've chopped, split, and stacked a lot of cord wood in my day and that's a good analogy. Glad to hear the risk isn't too great. Lord knows I've
absolutely slammed many a kite into the ground, though these have been mostly of the SS variety, thus my naivete about foil fragility. Twice I've
seen blown cells at Ivanpah which is what had me thinking about that. Rock hard surface there; maybe grass is a tad more forgiving, maybe just bad
luck I saw.
I agree with others. Got to get something in your hands and start flying!
Just got back from flying the Synapse 170 and I've got to say two things. One, I need a bigger kite. This thing does not pull much, except in a
really good wind. Two, I'd say my inland wind is gusty. Not gusty strong per se, but inconsistent gusty. I'll try to hit the beach tomorrow, but
last time it wasn't off the lake and was inconsistent gusty too. 3M Hornet seems to be one recommended for gusts.
Oldben, IFlyKites and MadHungarian, you're making a good argument for the 2.5M Rage. Any recommendations on lines/handles? The sets I priced out a
few days ago were just a quick sample to see the cost and it would have meant buying from 3 places for the 3 parts. I do still like the idea of
getting a 3M RTF and adding a Rage for some quiver variety, but MadH makes a good point that 1.8 may be the better second addition if I go that route.
Windstruck, is there a place to buy the Uniq in the States? I think I know how non-Americans feel now when it's difficult to buy things. Always
seems like they get the short end of the variety and price stick, but with with kite shopping I keep ending up on overseas sites. Numerous
brands/models that I'm not finding on US sites.
Trancein1, I'm not familiar with the Radsail, I'll have to look into it.
Blitzhound, thank you for the comments on durability, it's reassuring. I've avoided dive bombing after day one, but I'm sure I'll still do it as I
learn and push the envelope.
All 3 and the Rage are still in the running, even though not much push for the PKD so unless it's a steal it might be out. Sure, I'd like to buy used
but I don't want to wait too much longer as vacay is coming up. Leaning toward Hornet for looks and gust, Beamer for all-in-one fun, and Rage if
building a set isn't a hassle or maybe just as an addition. I know the new hobby drill, spend money.
I notice he doesn't list them on his website at the moment but if you contact him through the site I suspect he could get one for you. Mike is a good
trustworthy guy and a PKF member of long, good standing.
BigMike was the first place I checked, and likely where I'll go if I choose the Beamer or Hornet. I'll see what he says about the Uniq. I'll be on
vacay soon and should have a chance at some good lake winds I won't want to pass up.
If I was in your spot I would be seriously considering the Radsail .
This kite will do everything you want it to and leave you with money towards your next kite.
As you seem to know that the Revolution kites will be endless stunting fun.
Oldben, IFlyKites and MadHungarian, you're making a good argument for the 2.5M Rage. Any recommendations on lines/handles? The sets I priced out a
few days ago were just a quick sample to see the cost and it would have meant buying from 3 places for the 3 parts. I do still like the idea of
getting a 3M RTF and adding a Rage for some quiver variety, but MadH makes a good point that 1.8 may be the better second addition if I go that route.
If I were to get the 2.5m Rage, get it complete with lines/handles. The flexifoil handles it comes with are amazing and probably the best I have used
for handles on FB kites.
michkite - want to try a rage 2.5? say when. hornet 3m? same. will have a rage 1.8 on tuesday, if the shipping info is correct.
what about a 3.5? skydog powerfoil 3.5 for 212 bucks interest you? i'll dig up the link, if so.
lines/handles? pansh still has their half off sale going. stuff ships very fast. i'm using a pansh set on my rage right now, actually.
i have a version 2 beamer 3m coming from the UK any time now. you can play with that as well.
i'll likely convert a rush pro 350 to 4 line soon. it's 3.5m, and should mod very easily.
i'm in lincoln park. just south of deeetroit.
tom
tomdiving@yahoo.com
Still don't know why I ever sold my Rage 3.5. It was my go-to kite when the sands smoked (winds 20 + mph). Flixifoil line sets are great with those
little pull-tabs on the loops.
MichKite, your choices and reasoning are sound. At this point go for cost or aesthetics.
Avoid Pansh as they have a reputation for needing tweaking; something that a newbie might be frustrated with.
Angus Campbell Coastal Wind Sports
where life is better when it blows!
912-577-3920 new number
PKD Buster Soulfly Pro 3.3M. Good all around, good bargain (though I never see prices to know how good), A/R 3.4, OK design. 3.3 too big? Lower
price because of fewer features (ex. no sewn bridles)?
Who told you that lie? I'm holding one in my hands and the bridles are VERY SEWN.
All good choices. I have them all. They will all run 30+mph in a kite buggy.
The current model Hornet is a very well behaved and refined kite. I didn't care much for the previous model Hornet II.
The current Beamer VI is the best model yet of the Beamers. Very similar to to the Hornet; yet slightly different to the point that to this day; I
can't yet quantify the differences. If you could fly them both back to back; you would agree they are ever so slightly different.
The older Beamers were very different kites. The Beamer IV and older were very slow kites and gave the kite the reputation it has to those who flew
it back then. The Beamer V was better; but not nearly as good as the current model.
Both those kites used to be far lower cost. They are so pricey now; they are basically pricing themselves out of their own markets.
The Rage is more of an "advanced" kite. You might not initially think it is as refined as the two above kites; but you will never outgrow it as it is
more "stunt kite" like in my opinion. The downside to that is; initially flying it you might think it's not that great; but in time you would master
it and appreciate it.
That's not to say the above kites you could outgrow; at least not in a kite buggy. You would eventually just be able to fly them in stronger and
stronger winds. Much different then trying to anchor down all that power when static flying.
The PKD is very similar to the Rage in both its shape and flying characteristics to the point I have to wonder if it was influenced by and inspired
by the Rage. Each of them can "propeller spin" on their center access. The hornet/beamer don't do it exactly the same.
You'll have to contact Jeff Earl(bigkid) directly to see if he has any 3.3's on hand and the price.
Personally; the Pansh Flux for the price can't be beat. Grab one and fly the heck out of it. You might get bored of static flying kites. Or you
might want some kite that is bigger or smaller. At Least you only spent $60 or $80 on it and not $300+ like these other brands are wanting you to
do.
I have the 1.4, 2, 3, 4, 5m Flux kites and fly the heck out of them and have been for the past year or more with the kite buggy. They will run with
the best of them and I would love to race some people flying other kites to see how well they hold their own.
I would say though I would consider the Flux a more advanced kite. As said with the Rage; at first you might think "this kite is piece of junk"; but
once you learn its quirks and nuances; you can deal with them and the kite will really shine.
Granted; with the Beamers and Hornets; they don't have any quirks or nuances and they "just fly". They fly real nice indeed; but I guess I get bored
with them and choose something more quirky to liven things up a bit and see what I can make those other kites do.
Just depends on what you want.
Personally I couldn't decide and still wouldn't and couldn't so I just bought them all.
Hey Michkite and tomdiving, if you guys ever find yourselves down around Toledo, im not far away and i know of a couple decent spots for static and
motion.
HQ: Symphony Beach 1.3, 2.2.4, Crossfire II 5m, Apex II 5m
Peter Lynn: Pepper II 3m, Venom II 13M
Born: NS3 4m, 7m. NS2 5.5m
Oldben, IFlyKites and MadHungarian, you're making a good argument for the 2.5M Rage. Any recommendations on lines/handles? The sets I priced out a
few days ago were just a quick sample to see the cost and it would have meant buying from 3 places for the 3 parts. I do still like the idea of
getting a 3M RTF and adding a Rage for some quiver variety, but MadH makes a good point that 1.8 may be the better second addition if I go that route.
If I were to get the 2.5m Rage, get it complete with lines/handles. The flexifoil handles it comes with are amazing and probably the best I have used
for handles on FB kites.
They do look like some nice handles, where others just seem like foam around a bar. Not saying that's bad as I have no experience. Good thing Rage
is on sale at amazon, because if I go with it and it wasn't, the full Flexifoil package is the most expensive.
michkite - want to try a rage 2.5? say when. hornet 3m? same. will have a rage 1.8 on tuesday, if the shipping info is correct.
what about a 3.5? skydog powerfoil 3.5 for 212 bucks interest you? i'll dig up the link, if so.
lines/handles? pansh still has their half off sale going. stuff ships very fast. i'm using a pansh set on my rage right now, actually.
i have a version 2 beamer 3m coming from the UK any time now. you can play with that as well.
i'll likely convert a rush pro 350 to 4 line soon. it's 3.5m, and should mod very easily.
i'm in lincoln park. just south of deeetroit.
tom
tomdiving@yahoo.com
Do you believe this guy! I hit the jackpot with a local guy that has a quiver of many of my questioned options and more, and he's willing to let me
try them. I couldn't ask for such luck and I'm extremely grateful. Tom, I'll be contacting you of course, but had to make a public thank you as
well!
![[*]](images/perspective/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
That turned
me off more since my wind days seemed weak as they were and thought a good window would increase my flyable days. Would that be accurate?
Don't even get me started... 
