Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
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Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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Phantom
Thought I'd throw a line out and see if I get any bites. I'd like to find a 9m Phantom II. If anyone has or knows someone that might be interested in
parting ways with one please let me know. I have a 15m and I absolutely love it. It's my normal go to. But by the time I feel OP it's blowing pretty
good. All my high wind kites are FB. I'd like to add a nice high wind DP to the collection.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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BeamerBob
Posts: 8308
Registered: 5-11-2007
Location: Down on the bayou
Member Is Offline
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I owned one and flew another and both were unstable when the speeds got high. I went faster on my 12m. It was near perfect.
Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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So you think the 12m would be a better pairing with the 15m? Good to know about the 9m. I'm pretty comfortable with the 15m up to about 18-20mph I
have a 10m Venom but the Phantom just out performs the Venom in handling. She's also beginning to show her age. I'm open to suggestions on a good high
wind pairing with my 15m Phantom. Sub 7m.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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BeamerBob
Posts: 8308
Registered: 5-11-2007
Location: Down on the bayou
Member Is Offline
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I flew the 12 in winds up to 28 mph but that was crazy overpowered. I couldn't turn upwind at the end of the run and had to turn downwind far enough
to get rid of some speed so I could turn around. So not really a high wind kite but the 12 would add some top end above your 15.
Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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shehatesmyhobbies
Posts: 3670
Registered: 2-23-2009
Location: Clayton, DE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serious Buggy withdraws!
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edited, just realized you were looking for 9m phantom II
Rich
NAPKA President
US 66
www.napka.org
302 480 6008
Phantoms!
My ride: GT Rapide
Check out the Wildwood Buggy Bash Facebook page!
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Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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Bobby says the 9m is unstable I'll take his word for it. I'm open to other possibilities. In high winds the last thing I want is a squirrelly kite. I
just really liked my 15m Phantom II and thought the 9 would be just as good. Maybe a small Venom II or a Synergy? Of are the smaller arcs not as good
as the larger ones? I've had my 10m Venom in 35mph wind. Was a very well behaved kite for such a nasty day.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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BeamerBob
Posts: 8308
Registered: 5-11-2007
Location: Down on the bayou
Member Is Offline
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I only flew two of the 9m P IIs but they both flew the same. There are some videos of me flying the 12m in my YouTube link. Sounds like the 12 flies
like your 15.
Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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shehatesmyhobbies
Posts: 3670
Registered: 2-23-2009
Location: Clayton, DE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serious Buggy withdraws!
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I really like my Original Phantom 9m on a wider bar, same bar I fly the 12m and 18m. In my opinion it changes the in air shape just enough to slow
down herky jerky movements in higher end winds. It does however make the kite respond fairly fast so you need to be prepared. I haven't had the
Phantom II's out enough to really tweak them as I always go for my faithful Phantoms
Rich
NAPKA President
US 66
www.napka.org
302 480 6008
Phantoms!
My ride: GT Rapide
Check out the Wildwood Buggy Bash Facebook page!
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
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If I was spending money on a depower kite and already had your quiver I would be looking at the new Born Kite Nasa Star 3 . Maybe I am just
encouraging you because I desperately want to try it at IBX!
What is wrong with your 8m Neo? Too much power in high winds? Sounds like your 10m Venom II is doing the job?
Personally, If my 7m Pulse or 10m Synergy is too much kite I revert to survival kiting. For that I use my almost no lift 2.5 profoil. Probably similar
to your legend?
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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Hey Bladerunner. The 10m Venom is a first gen. It's getting old and has a lot of repairs. It's just well abused and getting wore out. She does indeed
do the job and I like her as a high wind kite. But she's kind of a pig in the turns. That's really the only complaint I have. So basically I was thing
of finding her a replacement and retiring her. I like my Phantom so much, she turns on a dime and thought a smaller size like the 10m Venom might be a
good choice. The Neo is a solid kite. I was just looking for something a little smaller. All though you do bring up a good point. There is nothing
wrong with the kite but it needs better safety. Maybe that might be the better option to just find an updated bar. I feel very safe under my Arcs. I
know if I pop the safety I'm going to lose all power right now. I also know that if I pop the safety on my Neo in high winds it isn't going to do much
good. She's still gonna have plenty of pull. Maybe that's why I never gave it any consideration. It's not a very safe high wind kite. I know this from
experience. I popped the top hat safety after getting yarded out of the buggy and all it did was relieve some of the power. It still kept dragging me.
I had to completely release and pop the chicken loop. Kinda intense but a blast. I might be kinda an odd duck. I like the DP's and I like the FB's.
There both a different kind of ride. My goal is to build two quivers essentially. A FB quiver and a DP quiver. But as it stands if the wind picks up
too much for my smallest DP. I have to switch to a FB. My fav FB in high winds is my 2.6m ViperS. The Legend suck balls! No offense to pansh fans. But
it's super unstable and unpredictable. It's like putting a leash on a cat then putting said cat in a bag. Shaking it up and letting it go and trying
to hold on to the leash. It's either going to kill you or it's gonna be one hell of a ride.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
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I wonder if you couldn't use a single line flag out system on your Neo like on your Venom? Maybe even the same bar?
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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I feel like an idiot. I never even thought about that. Did I mention I lack a functioning brain.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Offline
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you confirmed my suspensions of top hat safety. I haven't owned one but always figured they would work as good as fixed bridles on kite killers when
in high wind and all tension is thrown on back lines when deployed. Which means it SUCKS. HQ hung onto top hat safety as long as they could lol.
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BeamerBob
Posts: 8308
Registered: 5-11-2007
Location: Down on the bayou
Member Is Offline
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Are you mixing up top hat safety with a flag system? The issue on the NEO was that you still had a fully inflated kite that could catch the wind. On
the Montana, when I've had to pull the safety under duress, it flags to the back lines and might flop around a bit on its way down, but the power is
gone and the kite can't fly again until you reset the safety.
Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  | | Are you mixing up top hat safety with a flag system? The issue on the NEO was that you still had a fully inflated kite that could catch the wind. On
the Montana, when I've had to pull the safety under duress, it flags to the back lines and might flop around a bit on its way down, but the power is
gone and the kite can't fly again until you reset the safety. |
Not sure what a flag system is other than front line or back line flag?? Since I haven't used one in the flesh, maybe I don't understand how a top
hat works. When you pull the top hat does it release both of the front lines at once? That's how I always thought of it. Maybe incorrectly.
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Offline
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After googling top hat safety, it led me to hardwarter kites site and the Zeekai coincidentally. A top hat works as I thought releasing tension from
front lines and inducing a stall. My point is, that it's similar to releasing front line tension on fixed bridle (letting go to kite killers). At
least in theory. I haven't used a top hat safety but I have used kite killers. MOST of the time releasing to kite killers will work, however, when
it's decently windy, I've had situations where the kite is still powered enough to fly backwards and drag you.
I had a situation with a blade that I couldn't get away from the power until I was able to remove a kite killer. Never wore them again nor would I
trust any system that doesn't flag to a single line.
Only depower I've flown are arcs and peaks. Both fls. Although anything can happen, I felt very safe when deploying the fls. Which is not all that
infrequent in my wind.
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
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As I understand the term " Top Hat " is the Red Knob that slid off of my Peter Lynn 07 bar last month.
Chris from hardwater tells me this not uncommon with the 07 !!!!!! Thanks Chris for the knowledge and FREE new top hat! 
Blitzhound's issue with the Neo is that it stalls on both back lines like you picture but being close cell is still grabs wind on the ground instead
of crumpling up.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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pbc
Posts: 830
Registered: 5-9-2009
Location: Gainesville, FL
Member Is Offline
Mood: Updated, edited, and published
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| Quote: Originally posted by ssayre | After googling top hat safety, it led me to hardwarter kites site and the Zeekai coincidentally. A top hat works as I thought releasing tension from
front lines and inducing a stall. My point is, that it's similar to releasing front line tension on fixed bridle (letting go to kite killers). At
least in theory. I haven't used a top hat safety but I have used kite killers. MOST of the time releasing to kite killers will work, however, when
it's decently windy, I've had situations where the kite is still powered enough to fly backwards and drag you.
I had a situation with a blade that I couldn't get away from the power until I was able to remove a kite killer. Never wore them again nor would I
trust any system that doesn't flag to a single line.
Only depower I've flown are arcs and peaks. Both fls. Although anything can happen, I felt very safe when deploying the fls. Which is not all that
infrequent in my wind. |
If you are going to be tethered to a "flagged" kite you still need some mechanism to separate from the kite should the flagging fail. I have only ever
had two flagout-failures. On one the kite was low and ahead of the buggy near the ground. When I flagged the kite the bar it caught on the front fork.
I kicked it the bar off the fork and the flagout finished.
In the second event the bar caught on piled up line at about 70% flagout. This was very unpleasant. The kite spun under moderately high load all the
way to the ground.
In the latter case I really should have dumped the whole rig, but my downfield was not great, so I rode it out. It sucked and it was a pain to
untangle, but overall was not bad.
Make sure you have the ability to completely separate from the kite. You might just need it someday.
Philip
I fly: Charger II 6.5m * Charger II 8m * Charger II 10m * Scorpion 10 (for sale) * Phantom II 12m * F-Arc 1200 * Venom 13m
I ride: Peter Lynn XR+ on Midis * Flexifoil Midi/Barrow * Peter Lynn Comp on Barrows * Peter Lynn XR+ (needs a fork)
I build: Custom bars for buggy pilots
I write about kite stuff: at http://philipbchase.com
Philip Chase |
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Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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As Bladerunner said the top hat releases tension on both front lines. But in strong enough winds. This merely causes the kite to essentially fly
backwards. The kite stays inflated on the ground and continues to pull. It's not fun at all. I think I'll take Bladerunners suggestions and try the
Neo on my Navigator SL bar with a front line flagout setup. I hope it works. I really like the Neo! She's a beautiful kite. Fun to fly, just a bit
scary if the winds get too high.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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Blitzhound
Posts: 529
Registered: 7-10-2013
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: I got a sickness, and the only cure is more Buggyin!
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| Quote: Originally posted by ssayre | After googling top hat safety, it led me to hardwarter kites site and the Zeekai coincidentally. A top hat works as I thought releasing tension from
front lines and inducing a stall. My point is, that it's similar to releasing front line tension on fixed bridle (letting go to kite killers). At
least in theory. I haven't used a top hat safety but I have used kite killers. MOST of the time releasing to kite killers will work, however, when
it's decently windy, I've had situations where the kite is still powered enough to fly backwards and drag you.
I had a situation with a blade that I couldn't get away from the power until I was able to remove a kite killer. Never wore them again nor would I
trust any system that doesn't flag to a single line.
Only depower I've flown are arcs and peaks. Both fls. Although anything can happen, I felt very safe when deploying the fls. Which is not all that
infrequent in my wind. |
You're absolutely right about the top hats Ssayer. Pulling it releases one side of the doubled over trim line. Essentially lengthening the front lines
and causing a stall. Most of the time it works as intended. But if you're in an overpowered situation. It will Cause the kite to fly backwards to the
ground still inflated and powered up. While the power is reduced it's still pretty strong. Depending on wind of coarse. This has happened to me three
times now. Twice with the Neo and once with the Montana. The Montana was scary. I couldn't get the chicken loop to open it had gotten bound up and was
under tention. Luckily my brother was at the beach with me and was able to grab the kite. I'm sure there was a lot of things that I coulda and/or
shoulda done different...anyway. At this point I don't trust these kites in high wind. So when the wind starts picking up beyond my comfort zone. I
switch to my FB's. But I haven't tried flying them on a different bar. I have always just left them connected to the bars they came with. I'm gonna
have to try them on a newer bar.
NAPKA US541
HQ: Beamer V 5.0m,
Best: Bularoo 7m, Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD: Inferno 9m, 12m, 16.5m,
Ozone: SubZero: 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 13m, Access 6m, Pure 6m, Chrono V2 7m, V4 13m, Chrono EXP 7m, 9m, R1V3 21m
Buggies: GT-Revolt, GT-RazR,
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