Not in that runway. You'll definitely need much longer lines. With the brightly colored kite you'll probably still be able to see it up there. Maybe
Big Kid has an extra set of 220's?
In the field at Dorothea which you visited, I'm using 30's now. It makes for a smaller field to be sure. It's kinda weird to fly over the tree line,
but when you drop into a more usual angle the wind goes away.
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
I've wondered how that location works with all the trees up there. At my fairgrounds location I've gone up to 25 M lines, but it is still not above
the tree line all the time - in part because of the slope of the site. I guess I could just add more lines (and I've got plenty) but for longer lines
I prefer my g-kites (single skin foil) over my NPW's anyway.
An interesting bar and 3-line setup for NS2-4s called the bungee bar. It has been a long time since I've buggied with an NS kite in a FB 3-line
configuration, but this setup might be useful if you find yourself buggying with a bit too much kite in the air.
I wondered too why it wouldn't simply unwind. Maybe it is purposely a little sticky...
I had seen that he had recently upgraded the StreetStar with the BODAPAR lines and some further refinements. I don't have personal use for these
street kites so I had done the unusual thing (for me) of not posting about it. I fly his kites exclusively and like them but it's not as if I'm
sponsored or anything like that.
Now that I've converted to DP I actually get a little spooked flying FB in the buggy. No real power throttle like you get with DP. I suppose his
perma-DP setting with this new bungee-bar might ease that a bit, but it has been my experience on the wide open playa of Ivanpah that I don't care for
how NasaStars behave with their noses scrunched. Yes, they generate less power so in that way they are "depowered", but I've also found that such a
deformation makes them fall way back in the wind window and create even more side pull than they already do which is considerable as-is IMHO. The
RaceStars and RS+ kites sit distinctly farther forward in the window than the NasaStars so the pull is more comfortable in the buggy when you are
going for long, long laps on the playa. I doubt this would be an issue in comparatively smaller areas like soccer fields, etc., but when your tack
line goes on for miles and miles any little things that bug you or make you uncomfortable sort of magnify and where the kite sits in the window is one
of those things.
Yes, I know, a true 1st World problem!
Bottom line, I love that Steffan continues to innovate and I'm here to support him for that. Sits with me like buying at a local coffee shop versus
Starbucks.
I'm thinking now the scrolling method probably works because the 3rd line doesn't normally have that much tension on it. The 2 main lines are
carrying the load. I'm wondering also if his NS bridling may have evolved enough so that the problems you mention are now mitigated. Might be worth
trying with your new NS4 even if just while flying static. For my NS2's I've never seen much value in the depower function (though I have never
tried bridle mods based on PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s posts.) Maybe in NS4 it is now better.
The Street Star innovation seems like it might work pretty well.
I'm thinking now the scrolling method probably works because the 3rd line doesn't normally have that much tension on it. The 2 main lines are
carrying the load. I'm wondering also if his NS bridling may have evolved enough so that the problems you mention are now mitigated. Might be worth
trying with your new NS4 even if just while flying static. For my NS2's I've never seen much value in the depower function (though I have never
tried bridle mods based on PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s posts.) Maybe in NS4 it is now better.
The Street Star innovation seems like it might work pretty well.
Good points. I will say that when I was bugging with NS3s "back in the day" that I used the 3rd line as a safety from time to time that worked well.
Now I really only use my NS4 with 4 lines, handles, and split z-bridles. My "third" line is coiled up and secured to the nose with its little yellow
retention loop.
So I had a chance to test the Dutch Flying Object 7m against the Nasa Star 4 7m.
Not very often do I get wind steady enough for a length of time to get two kites up under the same conditions. This day it was 8 mph from the NW.
Straight down the field for a perpendicular run across the field. No hill.
Here is an comparison without controlled conditions, no control subject, and pilot with questionable credential.
The Nasa Star is faster in the air. The profile of the Born kite is flatter than the DFO.
I think it's flatter in general tha the NS3. This is more apparent on the larger sizes, of course it would be. The DFO is very adjustable, the Born
kite needed no adjustment. For me this is great, some might prefer to tweak according to need. I just need it to fly well without adjustment.
This has to be a first look comment, cause I just don't have the skill to objectively look at all the right parameters. The Born 7m is the latest
model, the DFO hasn't evolved to I guess it's the current model also.
The Born kite does not fly well over water, It took way more than a month to get here from DE.
Now that I have it though it flys faster across the field which is more important to this comment.
I flew the DFO first and it was kicking. I think it knew it was about to be judged, and was on its best behavior. I had it adjusted to fly as forward
as possible with little regard for the pull. I returned the adjustments to center, and flew it for about 2 miles. No complaints.
I meant to do a mile for each kite, but you know......I was having fun so it went 2 miles
Next the Born. I needed to adjust the new kite to my bar...Wait a minute, no I didn't.
I used the bar set up for the NS3 5.5m and it was spot on.
Isn't consistency wonderful. The DFO kite requires more throw in the bar and has its own bar, so I used the shorter bar for the NS4 test. I was happy
to find that the shorter bar was every bit as responsive as the longer bar I used on the DFO.
I like the idea of a shorter bar doing the same work as one 5cm longer.
So how did it turn out? Here it is 2miles for the DFO, 1 mile for the NS4.
Then it rained on me and I quit for the day.
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
Thanks for the write up Ed about the DFO vs NS4. Interesting. I've never seen a DFO in the flesh. In the build up to launch of the 4th Gen NS, Steffen
did a FB posting about them being flatter in the sky than their predecessors. I'm wondering if by "flatter" that somehow translates to more projected
area and thus more grunt per square meter of kite? I don't know enough about kite design to fully understand the trade offs as one "flattens" a kite
via different bridling schemes.
My experience with the 4th Gen has been limited to static flying on handles of the 2.5m NS4. As you were saying, it seemed to "come out of the bag"
strung evenly and was well controlled and predictable in the sky. I love these simple workhorses.
Funny Steve, when you called the NS4 simple workhorse I got triggered a little.
Think I have a little patriotism left over from the 4th of July Speech. All fired up.
Born did a great job with this thing though. I have used his NS3 and it performs better for me than the way they talk about it on the forum as being
simple and kind of a compromise.
Being an interested amateur at control line power kites doesn't qualify me to argue with the prevailing wisdom. Having only an inland field at my
disposal that thinks it's a mix master blender makes it impossible to stretch any kites legs properly. But the field is what it is and my kites need
to respond to what .i have.wind wise. No racing kite for ed.
If the other sizes fly as well as the 7m I'll be thrilled. The real contest is between Steve's old 5.5 NS3 and the new one. That 5.5 3 model is one
of the special ones.
I feel good enough about the new model to commit to 3 new bars and offer Born my intention to purchase the larger sizes as they become available.
Goals have to match conditions if you can't change the conditions, so my goal is to be able to out buggy anyone on this kind of field no matter what
kite they are using. I believe The NS4 is my weapon of choice.
Edit. I just read what I wrote. Full compliment, no reservations, no buts or ifs. I strongly approve of this kite.
On the one hand my next order might ship faster, on the other hand I may have increased pricing on the large kites when they appear.
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
Funny Steve, when you called the NS4 simple workhorse I got triggered a little.
Think I have a little patriotism left over from the 4th of July Speech. All fired up.
"Simple workhorse" - in my book a high compliment. All of the function, none of the frills.
You know all the big brothers had a strap, and the little one wants to be all grown up.
It hasn't flown yet in NC. I did shorten the leaders some.
We could have saved on shipping if it was cleaned. I think we were almost at the point where I could have claimed "land ownership" in Utah.
Thanks for combining the bridles.
I will love it and feed it, and care for it, and pet, it and call it Hurricane.
Members who aren't me or Windstruck, Mr Steve consented to transfer his little 1.5m NS3.
One of these days I'll figure how to bless him back.
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
You know all the big brothers had a strap, and the little one wants to be all grown up.
It hasn't flown yet in NC. I did shorten the leaders some.
We could have saved on shipping if it was cleaned. I think we were almost at the point where I could have claimed "land ownership" in Utah.
Thanks for combining the bridles.
I will love it and feed it, and care for it, and pet, it and call it Hurricane.
Members who aren't me or Windstruck, Mr Steve consented to transfer his little 1.5m NS3.
One of these days I'll figure how to bless him back.
What your got Ed at no extra charge with "Hurricane" was genuine Ivanpah Playa dust. Accept no imitations! Every year people travel from as far away
as Israel to coat their kites with this precious, dare we say, magic element. I simply didn't have the heart to rinse it off, especially after hearing
you sniffle and wimper about not being able to get to any of the Eastern or Western organized power kiting events. I thought I'd bring a little of the
IBX love to you! Your welcome.
Thanks for the sample. How could you know I collect dirt?
Most of my terrestrial samples are shatter cones but I do have dirt.
These i are the oldest samples. One from Spain and the other is german.
Iridium KT or Kpg if you're young.
Thing is I'm going to need a bigger sample so next time send a bigger kite
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
In the past few months I've been revisiting the Born NS2 depower scheme. I've never really used as anything but a kite killer partly due to lack of a
convenient way to use it. I tried my DIY version of the new ideas shown on Born's videos using the 2 handle method and the "bungee bar". Both seem
to work, though the 2 handle method is a little difficult to get used to after using conventional handles and brake turns for a long time. Also the
issue of backstalls and reverse launches remained.
Here's my latest idea. I've converted my NS2 to 4 line and put it together with a single line handle ala Paraski. I added a cleat to lock in the
depower and used my Paraski type harness/quick release. I'm pretty happy so far with the way it works. It addresses of the issues with flying these
kites on a bar including a quick was to depower/repower; counter backstalls and reverse launch.
Of course, it is limited to short lines, though that's usually all I fly these days for a lot of reasons. I think this could be used with a 2 handle
system with a little more innovating.
I see you're using the panic snap as your quick release.. which is also used for the Paraski Flex harness system. A very inexpensive manual quick
release, that works quite well.
This just in: 8.5m NS4 now available for shipment from Born. I'm not in the market for this large a fixed bridle but I do own the 2.5, 4.0, 5.5, and
7.0m NS4s and can confidently attest that they are a nice evolutionary step beyond the earlier models.
Got one of these on order! I'm excited to put my NS4s to work again in the buggy. They are so unbelievably calming after working my RS+ kites. This
looks like a great DP solution. Whupp!
Does look like a really good setup and probably easier to use than the one with the bungee cords.
Have you found that the NS-4 Stars are more de-powerable than the earlier versions? I've got 5.5 NS2's and have gotten into using the DP with it
lately. I don't seem to get that much DP, but it is useful in taking the edge off enough to avoid just killing the kite.
Does look like a really good setup and probably easier to use than the one with the bungee cords.
Have you found that the NS-4 Stars are more de-powerable than the earlier versions? I've got 5.5 NS2's and have gotten into using the DP with it
lately. I don't seem to get that much DP, but it is useful in taking the edge off enough to avoid just killing the kite.
It has been years since I've flown my NS kites (of either 3rd or 4th gen variety) using three lines and a bar as I've had them set up with z-bridles
for four-line handled flying, most of which have been static.
Memory serves that when using them in the buggy that scrunching the nose sort of depowers the kite, but it does so by making them crappier flyers and
certainly not by affecting AOA in any way as you typically think about with a pulley-rigged DP kite.
Buggy riding on a long run on the Ivanpah playa I remember that scrunching the nose decreased the kite's pull at the price of dropping it further and
further back in the wind window. Too much scrunch and the kite flew so poorly that it dropped too far back. There is probably some sort of
equilibrium point you could reach, but I'll have to test all that. Hope to do just so at IBX2021!
I ended up using what amount to a single bar turned vertical rather than horizonal with the brake at the bottom of the bar and the power at the top.
The two power lines connect at the top of the bar (usually with a leader of 1m or so) and the two brake connect at the bottom of the bar (also with a
leader line.)
I control the nose scrunch with a 3 rd line and a cleat. This is basically a paraski control system and only works with short lines. The advantage
is that when the nose is scrunched I can back off on the brake tension and eliminate dropping back into the window. Basically the same idea as
PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s 5 line control, but with short lines you don't need two bars. I was pretty happy with the way it works, though the amount of
DP you get is still limited. I use much bigger kites now - 5.5 is now about the smallest I go, and I've gone to 8m with my NPW 21. With short lines
you control the power mostly through the window placement, which is much quicker than when the kite is on 80 m lines. In theory losing a lot by using
short lines, but in practice in the janky field where I ride, I spend a lot more time launching and relaunching the kite with long lines. With short
lines it only takes a second to relaunch most of the time.
New innovation from Born. Replaces all of the "ribs" in Long Star with spars that fold for transport. I think this is pretty brilliant in its'
simplicity. One thing I've learned from my own experiments with my round flex kites - a simple spar (in my case the leading edge) can greatly improve
performance at very low cost and can also avoid a lot of bridles and sewing.
From the Born facebook page:
"Why does the LongStar4 have such a high flying speed?
One reason for this : .... Even the LS4 has moved in its "fraction".
The new sector kiel (patent pending) smooths out the single skin surfaces at the fixings of the scales. Through the combination of relatively stiff
(carbon) and foldable (polypropylene) sectors, a very high form stability is achieved with very low air resistance, without sacrificing a minimal
packing measure for transport. The crash-safe processing of the sector cones promises the usual durability of BORN Kites."
New innovation from Born. Replaces all of the "ribs" in Long Star with spars that fold for transport. I think this is pretty brilliant in its'
simplicity. One thing I've learned from my own experiments with my round flex kites - a simple spar (in my case the leading edge) can greatly improve
performance at very low cost and can also avoid a lot of bridles and sewing.
From the Born facebook page:
"Why does the LongStar4 have such a high flying speed?
One reason for this : .... Even the LS4 has moved in its "fraction".
The new sector kiel (patent pending) smooths out the single skin surfaces at the fixings of the scales. Through the combination of relatively stiff
(carbon) and foldable (polypropylene) sectors, a very high form stability is achieved with very low air resistance, without sacrificing a minimal
packing measure for transport. The crash-safe processing of the sector cones promises the usual durability of BORN Kites."
Steffen Born has been a consistent innovator over the years. He introduced semi-flexible vertical spines to his RaceStar+ kites (the RaceStar kites
did not have the spines). The spines went about 3/4 of the way from the leading edge towards the trailing edge in a regularly repeating fashion along
the "ribs" of the kites. I owned and flew both the RS and RS+ kites on the Ivanpah Playa for many miles each and vastly preferred the RS+ over RS
kites. When fully inflated and cruising it probably made little difference, but these ribs really helped in punch winds and for providing some
structure to the long 6:1 AR ribbons when taking off, landing, or in light or irregular winds when the kites might collapse, bow tie, etc.
The LongStar4 combination of hinged stiff and semi-flexible sections seem a nice evolution and I suspect a RS2 is in the works with theses
refinements. He no longer lists the RS on his site, just the RS+. Pure speculation on my part.
The lack of extensive "undercarriage" is doubtless because the added structure afforded from all these ribs and spines makes them superfluous. Again,
nice evolution!
I don't end up kiting all that frequently these days so I'm unsure if I'll want to upgrade my RS+ quiver with any of these anticipated RS2s. Maybe
the 3.0m because I trashed my original one.
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