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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Nasa Stars are friggin' sweet! It really is a unique kite.
I'm in Nasa Star euphoria after 6 hours of playing with them again today.
We need a circle group where we can light a candle and sing a funky chant  .
Maybe we could get abkayak to join? 
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
 
http://hint.fm/wind/
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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Join us abkayak
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soliver
Posts: 3913
Registered: 12-15-2011
Location: somewhere, far, far away
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Mood: sleepy
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YES... we must convert more!... there must be MORE followers,
I'm going to take a nap now
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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A funny thing has happened in the past couple of days when I've tried to use my 8.5m NS3 for buggy propulsion. Borderline too little wind. Everything
is going fine until the kite decides to fly BACKWARDS. I think it is when I get ahead of the kite with the buggy but I'm not sure. Also, sometimes it
does this downward all the way to the ground. Weird. Never had a kite do that before.
Is this pilot error (my suspicion)? There doesn't really seem to be anything to adjust. Anybody have any thoughts or tips?
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Get a 10m Steve. Lol. Be 100% sure you don't have any tension on the depower line. This will promote backstall in lower winds. I've also seen
backstall if I'm not edging upwind just right while the kite is at the edge of the window. They are most happy sitting deep in the window. At least my
NASA Star 2s are anyway.
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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You make a good point Jason about the tension of the center line. I was thinking it may be too tight. The question is going to become how to lengthen
it. I may be able to cheat an inch or so from the loops that are down by the bar. Honestly, I like the chicken loop but don't really see the big need
to the quick release safety line clip in. I may be able to reduce that to buy some more center line length. Another idea would be to put some knots it
the thick part of the brake lines down near the bar, effectively making the center line longer by relation. I'll play with it.
Now, about that 10m NS3.... First things first, I would need a longer bar. I do have a WANTED posting for a used Navigator bar. No bites so far, but
it is only the first day of that posting.
I do think my next Star will be a 7m Long Star. It looked sweet! I loved the clip system with its color coding. With the fabled Ultra Star haunting
in the wings I think I will hold off on an even bigger NS3 in case Steffen delivers this fall with a large Ultra that I just NEED to have. 
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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soliver
Posts: 3913
Registered: 12-15-2011
Location: somewhere, far, far away
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Mood: sleepy
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Jason's right, there should only be tension on the center line when you pull the yellow ball or let the bar out to depow the kite... My 7m does the
backward motion bit too sometimes... I always just chalked it up to it being something that all Nasas and NPW's do... I may shorten my power leaders a
bit (move the knot back an inch or so) to add some length to my center line...
My next NS3 is hopefully a 10m... maybe this fall.
I'm going to take a nap now
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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Back stall only happens in ultralight wind when kite is not in motion. The can be corrected by piloting to a degree. Generally if wind is that
inconsistent or light then motion is hampered causing me to call it quits anyway. The 8.5 is big enough that you might need to extend the center line
a touch to ensure there is not tension.
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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Thanks Spencer, Sean, and of course Jason! I think you all are on the money. I will fiddle with my set up and see if I can tease some more length
out of the control line.I've got a feeling that the 8.5m and up kites are not completely accounted for in the Born-Kite system. I notice in Steffen's
video library that he states that a single bar works for the entire NS3 line up, but then puts up to 7.0m in parentheses or something like that.
Sean, if I called it quits every time the wind died down I'd never get any kiting in!  Just the nature of my "janky" winds I guess.
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Steve, with your 8.5, is your kite's larkshead knot already at the end of the Bar's center line? There should be different preset knots for different
sized kites. The the smaller the kite, the closer the knot gets to the bar. And visa versa for the larger kites. You should also adjust the cam cleat
for each size kite. If set too far out, your Star can go inside out making relaunch a tangled mess. You want the cleat just far enough out that when
you let the bar go, the the nose fully collapses to about the trailing edge. Any more, and the kite will turn inside out. I like to use different
colored sharpies on my center line. A mark for each sized kite so I know where to set the cleat.
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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It seems as if I may be the only soul out there with a Born-Kite over 7m. I've seen plenty of aspirational thinking around the fabled 10m NS3 but has
anybody actually gotten one? How about the Big Kahuna, the 12.5m? I know when I ordered my 8.5m from Steffen that it was a special order of sorts
that I believe got built in Hungary or someplace, but not at his main facility. I suspect the 8.0, 10.0, and 12.5 are all going to be special orders.
I'm also wondering if the center line issue I seem to be experiencing (viz., it being perhaps too short) is only going to get worse as the sizes get
bigger. I would certainly think that the single smaller diameter bar is going to become progressively too small as the NS3 size goes up.
I'm tempted to purchase a 10m NS3 but am a little leary. I certainly want to secure a 65cm bar before pulling that particular trigger. Also, we now
know that the Long Stars are only going up to 7m (at least initially), but what of the fabled Ultra Star? I'm going to email Steffen and ask him if
the Ultra Star is slated to come in these larger sizes. His answer to that question may lead me to buy a 10m one sooner than later. I'm also going
to ask him about the center line length and bar width issues for his larger NS3s. If I learn anything relevant for this devoted NASA following I will
post it.
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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John Holgate had a custom 10m NASA Star 2 made a year or so ago. He made no mention of centerline length issues. The easiest thing I would do is to
add a pigtail section to the end of the bar's centerline if you think it may indeed be too short. You want just a little bit of slack on the depower
line. Too much, and it can get wraped around the power lines in tight turns.
With any quiver of any brand kite, the smaller sizes will always be more nimble than the larger ones. Different bar lengths can compensate for this to
an extent. The longer the bar, the faster the kite will turn. But, it will still be a larger kite with large kite characteristics.
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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Jason - my thinking too. I'm going to see first if I can squeeze some more center line length out of the set up around the bar first and then if that
is a no-go it's pigtail city. 
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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I think Steffen has a great system for his kites. As far as his bars, I think the 21" is a good medium for covering all kite sizes. From what I played
with this weekend, I would not want to fly a 2.5 or 4m on a 65cm bar. That would be like over steering a car thats hydroplaning lol. The same goes for
a 8.5 or 10m. I would not like a short bar for those. That would be like under steering. The larger sizes (8.5 and up) is just pure speculation based
on my experiences with the 2.5 through the 7m. The 5.5 and the 7 just felt better to me on a longer bar. BUT, that is my opinion only (except for
that surfer dude from Maui). I now have two bars. A shorty, and a long. That is whats going to work best for me. Doesnt mean its right. Doesnt mean
its wrong. Kiting is 100% about feel. No two people are alike. The large Navigator bar was the first thing that popped into my head yesterday after I
saw how much better my 7m flew on the longer bar. At 55-65cm you get one bar, ALL size kites.
Your mileage may vary...
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  | | Jason - my thinking too. I'm going to see first if I can squeeze some more center line length out of the set up around the bar first and then if that
is a no-go it's pigtail city. |
Pig tail is not completely necessary. You can always tie another knot further in on the leaders on each side. Does the same thing without the need
for anything added to the set up and you can quickly change the position of the outside lines when going from your largest size to a smaller size.
But, if you get bored, making unnecessary pig tails is fun too.
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John Holgate
Posts: 1512
Registered: 6-9-2009
Location: Australia
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Mood: Cruising...
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| Quote: |
John Holgate had a custom 10m NASA Star 2 made a year or so ago. He made no mention of centerline length issues.
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My center line has several knots in it and I tend to use the same knots for the 2.5, & 4m. then maybe 2 inches longer for the 5.5/7m and a couple
inches longer again for the 10m. I just adjust the knots as I change kites. You'll know if it's too tight as the nose will be just starting to fold.
Doesn't seem to matter if it's a bit slack.
I'm not aware of it affecting the back-stalling issue. This is simply what happens when there's not enough air flow over the kite - it's starts to
fall and then voila, magically starts flying backwards. Just steer it round in a reverse loop and get it moving again. It's very rarely an issue if
your either moving or have a bit of wind, but if you try to hold it at the edge of the window in light wind and you get a small lull, then it can go
backwards. I've found it more prone to doing that if you're on really short lines too.
On the coast, I find I need about 5.5 to 6 knots to have enough to park 'n ride with the 10m. The 7m probably needs about 1.5knots more. If you
already have the 8.5m, I wouldn't bother with the 10m. Instead, you might try a 30m to 40m lineset for the light winds.....
Also, if you do need an extra inch or two on your center line, what about just tying a knot in your power line leaders either side of the bar and
larks heading around them....or replace the center line altogether with one six inches longer with room for a few more knots...
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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I was able to find about two inches of line last night down by the bar. As folks know there are two plastic tubes separated by a rectangular metal
ring that the safety carabiner clips into. The one closest to the end of the line was set about two inches from the bar sort of blocked up against
where the line gets thicker and more rectangular. I simply stuffed the thicker rectangular section down the tube and voila two more inches! I can
see by the pictures from Jason's action shots that his little tube is all the way up next to the control bar (though not in his original picture that
started this thread). Time will tell if this little bit of extra length will be enough.
John - I like the idea of different knots up at the kite end of the depower line for the center line larkshead tie in. I have two knots in the end of
the depower line now and set the 8.5m to the longer one. More knots would be nice, but of course that means less total depower line length. I may
play with knots on the thick power lines down by the bar as suggested for further adjustability. Lots to play with!
Jason - The sharpie suggestion for the cleat is great too - good thinking!
I do like the idea of trying line extensions to eek some more power out of the 8.5m as compared to going up to the 10m (certainly less money
involved!). The lines that come with the kites are 20m long. Your 30-40m suggestion has me going up 50-100% on that! I just got a second lineset
with the 3.2m (thank you very much John!) that aren't even out of their plastic pouch. As an experiment I could add those on to the existing lines.
I better bring a pair of binoculars to see the kite! I buggy on some soccer fields that have some obstacles off the ends of them that I'll have to be
wary of. I don't want to bring the kite down into an ongoing softball game if I luff it in a turn! 
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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I think I posted this before, but I got a great email from Steffen a while back with a suggestion for packing up Star kites. I tried his arm sweep
with crouch technique for the first time today and it worked beautifully! 
A little trick, as you can quickly fold the NS3.
1. Remove the bar.
2. Fasten the bridle lines on the transport loops on the kite.
3. Grab the kite at the nose right and left.
4. Stand up to the wind with her back
5. With a quick bow movement hands inwards and the wingtips fold inward.
6. When folding the tips, squat. On the floor then fold.
The more wind, the better it works.
Here is a copy and paste from his email:
Here you can see the procedure.
See minute 2:28 to 2:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwIHBPLhFGc
See minute 2:43 to 2:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvRc08IvJo0
I did this on the 8.5m NS3. Love it!
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Get in my buggy!
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Fellow Star fans - I "solved" my length issue for the center line this afternoon. I removed the two plastic tubes and the the strap that has the
carabiner on it. Trade off for the 8-10 inches of extra center line gained was the loss of the emergency rip cord. Honestly it was getting in the
way; it would block my hook in to my Spreader. If I need to bail I'll unhook from the Spreader and hold onto the little yellow ball....
New question - has anybody tried flying a NS3 (or any Star for that matter) without the center line at all? This would involve leaving the yellow DP
bridle attached to its little larks head cord on the leading edge. Yes, I know this would disable the "DP" Star feature and its ability to flag out,
but I'm just curious. I haven't tried it but I bet it would fly just fine.
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Offline
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They do fly just fine without the third line
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soliver
Posts: 3913
Registered: 12-15-2011
Location: somewhere, far, far away
Member Is Offline
Mood: sleepy
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I'm thinking that it kind of would eliminate your "safety" system if you have to pull the QR on the chicken loop you essentially just end up
jettisoning the kite, then you have to chase it down.
Steve I used to get really frustrated with the carabiner and other pieces of the third line getting in the way trying to hook in. What I did was to
move the clip in velcro apparatus that came with the bar to the right of my spreader bar hook. and when I hook the third line in, I make sure it is
run UNDER the chicken loop... That way it sort of helps to keep the chicken loop in place and kinda helps to get it hooked in when its not.
I'm going to take a nap now
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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You guys are funny. I don't see how the carabiner or other bits get in the
way at all. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I have personally never had any inconvenience caused by them.
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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I guess everyone has their 3rd line attachment strap above the hook? I also fold it back out of the way when flying a different kite. I fold it back
behind the bar between the spreader pad.
I've never had a problem with the 3rd line hardware getting in the way either. Its always above my hook. I hook in an out with no obstructions because
the 3rd line stays above the hook. 
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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I agree Jason. It doesn't get in the way of anything including when I use the peak or fb kite on handles and strop. It justs sits on top not bothering
anybody.
Maybe they are hooking in then trying to attach the biner. You want to attach the biner first then hook in.
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Yes Sean. I usually take a knee, attach the depower line (above the hook), stand back up, then launch the Star. Once up in the air, I pull the bar
down to my waist and hook in. The 3rd line stuff always stays out of my way. At least to date anyway. Then, depending on the wind speed, I may pull
the yellow ball just a bit until I get situated in the buggy.
At the end of a run, I let the Star pull my a$$ up out of the seat, cause I'm lazy like that 
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Another represent shot. Riff sent me this one. I'm in the left background with the unmistakable bat profile 
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
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Mood: Get in my buggy!
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Jason - that is a sweet little hook in spot! I don't have one like that on my spreader but I sure do see how it could be useful. I have a PL Devine
harness. With longer leashes I hook into the metal rings at either end of the spreader bar, but with a short line setup like on the Star bar I end up
clipping into the spreader hook itself which is why I get messed up. Your picture is excellent and the strap with the hook in metal rectangle looks
to be a simple piece of stout webbing in a larkshead knot over the spreader bar. I'm suspecting it came with your particular brand of harness. Is
that right or was this aftermarket?
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Offline
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Negative Steve. That should have come with your born kite bar.
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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I have the exact same thing as Jason and it came from born with the bar
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Steve. I have a standard PL spreader bar. That little ring strap is what came with both my bars from Steffen. Its made specifically for the 3rd line.
Did you not get this piece??
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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