rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Mood: Praying for wind
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Downturning?
So, I've often seen it suggested to avoid turning up at the edges of the window to avoid losing speed and causing the kite to luff.
However, I have to confess I can't seem to figure out how to turn down. I get the idea, if the kite is flying to the right just pull on the right
power line (and possibly the right brake too), but in practice it never seems to work for me. I can make figure eights turning up no problem (if the
wind permits), but I manage to luff the kite as soon as I try and turn down.
I'm not quite sure what's happening, but when I try and turn down I often end up with slack in the lines causing the kite to luff. In the cases were
it doesn't the kite never seems to want to turn any further than straight down. Thus far I think I've only managed to successfully turn a kite down
and around once.
I'm wondering if anyone might have a clue as to what I'm doing wrong. I wonder if my light and inconsistent wind might have something to do with it,
but that certainly can't be everything because I can manage to turn up in winds where I can't turn down. I have this problem with all three of my
kites.
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crazyherb
Posts: 462
Registered: 7-13-2005
Location: Buckeye, AZ
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Mood: Where's the water?
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Maybe get a faster turning kite?
Seriously though...before a down-turn (back looping the kite) I run the kite all the way to the edge of the window where the lines almost go slack
BEFORE down looping...edge hard till it comes back up way back in the window and sheet out and ride off!!
NAPKA US70
Switch Element 2 15M, Element 3 11M, Helium 18M
Liquid Force Proof 161, MTH Custom (Water)
Flexboardz Haize (Land)
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Mood: Praying for wind
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I'm mostly trying this flying static actually. Very rarely do I have to wind to even try getting on my board.
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ssayre
Posts: 3586
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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Try down turning higher. If your too low you might not have the room to bring it around.
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WELDNGOD
Posts: 5143
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Use more brake input to turn it. When you get good at it ,the kite will seemingly pivot on its tip. With the big boy ,it's gonna take full brake and
pull back to turn it.
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RedSky
Posts: 1739
Registered: 9-7-2009
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Strange one this. Have you come to a complete stop at the edge of the window before you downturn? If so then try and downturn just before you come to
a complete stop and before you reach the edge. Downturn while you still have some speed.
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soliver
Posts: 3913
Registered: 12-15-2011
Location: somewhere, far, far away
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Mood: sleepy
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My process includes all of the above, ... as I approach the edge of the window, I bring the kite upwards (to make some room to bring it over) then I
pull the handle for the direction I'm turning just before I get to the edge of the window adding a little bit of brake tension to tighten the turn...
so really its a matter for me of giving myself a little altitude first and not coming all the way to the edge, i.e. starting the maneuver before you
"get there" ... and most important thing is to keep it moving.
all downturns in my most recent vid: https://vimeo.com/106352452 if that helps... good examples at 1:18 and 1:50, all with my big boy, the 8.6m
I'm going to take a nap now
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
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Work on doing kite loops turning down ( starting high ) . They are just a bit easier since you remain committed until the kite heads back up.
Once you are comfortable looping that way work on straightening out your handles / lines just as the kite turns in the opposite direction. A down turn
is sort of a kite loop that you shorten and run across the window instead of back up. Send the kite low and straight through the power zone for a long
power stroke. The reason a down loop is so valuable in motion.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
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Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Mood: Praying for wind
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I think part of my problem might be that I don't actually get much power down low. Because of my poor locations and wind I usually find the most power
higher up in the window rather than where the power zone should be. Most often I have to walk back a bit to get my kites in the air at all.
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Speed equals power.
If you do it correctly and get on the front lines to speed up the kite the apparent wind should be all you need to run it through and back up the
other side ?
Get the loops down 1st.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
Registered: 9-5-2013
Location: Hamilton Ontario
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You could be flying to far to the edge of the window, then its to late
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indigo_wolf
Posts: 5101
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Mood: Weaned by leopards, raised by wolves...
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Quote: Originally posted by rofer | I'm not quite sure what's happening, but when I try and turn down I often end up with slack in the lines causing the kite to luff. In the cases were
it doesn't the kite never seems to want to turn any further than straight down. Thus far I think I've only managed to successfully turn a kite down
and around once.
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Quote: Originally posted by rofer | I'm mostly trying this flying static actually. Very rarely do I have to wind to even try getting on my board. |
In a word.... move.
If you are flying static and the kite starts to luff, move back... even to the point of running backwards to get tension back into the lines.
Note: Walking an unfamilar field before flying it gives you a chance to take note of all the surface irregularities, gopher holes, scrap rebar, etc. so moving backwards on the field is relative safe.
Too often, flying static gets equated with essentially anchoring your feet to the ground, and you lose out on a lot when you do that.
Even if you aren't on/in a board or buggy. You actually physically moving in relationship to the kite adds another dimension to things.
Moving/Running towards the kite detensions the lines and slows down the kite... always a good habit to get into if you find yourself heading for a
nose plant you can't avoid.
Moving, running back away from the kite adds tension/power/speed to the kite and can prevent marginal luffs.
Moving sides to side, reorients the wind window and changes where the kite is in the wind window when you come to a stop.
Although it is geared towards dual and quad line stunt kites, there some stuff that is applicable to all kites in two articles called:
Kitelife Issue 39: Milking the Breeze - Part 1
Kitelife Issue 40: Milking the Breeze - Part 2
ATB,
Sam
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12 - Jesus, does anyone?" - The Body by Stephen King
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B-Roc
Posts: 3158
Registered: 3-9-2006
Location: Massachusetts
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So, why are you trying to do this again? Sounds like you are switching from a technique that was mostly working to one that isn't working at all
because someone told you to. Stick with what works, I say. If the winds are cleaner up high, don't bother with a down loop. You are aware that if
you get it right, down loops often carry significantly more power through the turn, correct? So keep in mind if you get it right you may get yanked
off your feet and then ask yourself again,,. why is this better?
Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
Rides: Ground Industries
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Mood: Praying for wind
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B-Roc: I'm trying to do this because I'm regularly flying in very little wind and my goal is usually just to keep the kite fast enough that it stays
in the air. I'd be pretty amazed if I actually got yanked off my feet in most of the winds I've been in. I'd also just like to improve my kite skills
so I can better handle whatever wind conditions I find.
Bladerunner: Part of my problem is I seem to lose speed as I turn it down which feels like the opposite of what I should be experiencing.
dangerdan: Flying too close to the edge very well may be my problem.
indigo_wolf: I often am moving about when I fly static. Partially to try and make up for the space I lose when I have to run back to launch my kites
and partially to keep them from pulling me over, but for some reason I never step back when I'm turning down. I think it's because I always feel like
I shouldn't have to then. Next time I'm out I will try that though.
I feel like this would be a lot easier if I could just practice more, but my winds rarely cooperate and on the few days they do I generally end up
sticking with what I know I can do so the kite stays in the air. Hopefully as it gets colder the wind will improve and I'll have more chances to try
some of this and figure out what's going wrong. Also recently got an action cam so I might try and get some footage of my flying so people can point
out what I'm missing.
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crazyherb
Posts: 462
Registered: 7-13-2005
Location: Buckeye, AZ
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Mood: Where's the water?
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Movement is key...this gives you the "edging" capability to keep tension on the lines..
Couple good downloops on my ride here:
http://vimeo.com/98305417
NAPKA US70
Switch Element 2 15M, Element 3 11M, Helium 18M
Liquid Force Proof 161, MTH Custom (Water)
Flexboardz Haize (Land)
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Mood: Praying for wind
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Problem is I don't have enough wind to get me moving most days I fly. If I wasn't so desperate to get my kites in the air I'd probably only get once
in every 3-4 days I get them out now.
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RedSky
Posts: 1739
Registered: 9-7-2009
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You mentioned earlier that you experience little or no wind down low. I've experienced this too within spitting distance of buildings and trees.
Double length lines should cure this. I understand your space is limited but I'd give that a go.
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