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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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Flying with little to no wind
So, when there's very little to no wind obviously I'm not going to be able to be able to get moving on anything, but I've read it's still possible to
fly large kites static. So, on the days where I can't do much I figured I might as well work on learning to fly my big 8m Century II.
I'm wondering what exactly I need to be doing to keep a kite like this in the air. After shortening the power lines at my handles I've been able to
reliably get my Century up into the air with a combination of walking backwards and pulling sharply on the handles, but I've yet to be able to keep it
in the air for long. Once I get it up to 45 or so what should I be doing? Should I be turning it down to start figure eights?
Also, is it possible hold my position once I get the kite in the air or will I need to constantly be moving a bit backwards to keep it from falling
out of the sky?
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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A kite that size should stay up in a light breeze without walking backwards. If there are periods of no wind that last more than a few seconds than
you'll probably have to step back. Keep it moving and try and turn it before your get to the edge of the window to prevent stalling. I could fly my
8 meter toxic in 2-4 winds but it takes some work. 4-7 should be easy flying.
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cheezycheese
Posts: 3760
Registered: 8-18-2009
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ready for action !!!
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You should not have to move at all. The main thing is to keep the kite moving. Figure 8's are great for this. Low wind flying will help you gain the
finesse needed later down the line. But I would imagine that even in little to no wind that kite will still pull you pretty good when swooped down
thru the powerzone.
US888
PL- Aero v1 11m / Phantom 6/9/12/15/18
Ozone Chrono v2 9m
Liquid Force Elite 6.5m
Flysurfer - Peak 3 4m
PKD - Century 2.5m, Soulfly 3.5m
Ted's Profoil-1m/3.5m
Custom NABX Rev
GT Rapide V/VTT-XR+ Special
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
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Naturally you can't fly in zero wind for long. I have found I am riding through a complete lull when in motion before but that is different.
Once the kite has lifted turn it and fly it across the power zone. Your wind window will not be as big so turn it back early. Work on doing down turns
rather than turning the kite up. Gravity helps with this move. Keep the kite in motion and moving through the power zone as much as possible .
Generally I find flying big kites in super low wind a bit of a drag. Too much like work. If you get it down you can fly a 3m kite in some amazing low
winds. Again the key is keeping the kite in motion and away from the edges.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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When I say little to no wind I mean the local weather station is reporting gusts around 4mph with the average wind being something like 1-2mph. The
only time I've seen the wind average around 6mph was when we had 25mph gusts. Add to that the fact that I don't have anywhere with terribly clean
wind, especially at the ground and I can be pretty sure I'll need to step back to launch.
Mostly wondering how what to do if there's pretty much no powerzone because the wind is essentially stopped.
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RedSky
Posts: 1742
Registered: 9-7-2009
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Have you ever considered Chess. 
oh deary me, I do make myself laugh sometimes. I echo Bladerunners comment. Smaller kites that are lighter and can be quickly manipulated stand a
better chance for static flying. The big kites only really come into their own once on the move with the apparent wind effect helping them along. Keep
a nice fluid motion going, walk back if you have to but then walk forwards to regain your ground when the kite is in a dive or when the wind gets up.
Avoid upturns at the edge. Use gravity to assist with the kites motion and consider that actually there might not be enough wind to fly. I like your
dedication though.
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John Holgate
Posts: 1512
Registered: 6-9-2009
Location: Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cruising...
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Sounds like a good time to do some 360's 
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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Oooh, hadn't considered that. Sounds like a good way to keep running out of space.
Also, just tried to get it out in some wind that I could only occasionally feel on my face. After realizing I had some of the power bridles tangled
and fixing that it was really able to pull! Look forward to trying this on a day that actually has a little wind.
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WELDNGOD
Posts: 5143
Registered: 10-11-2006
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Mood: Dyin' to go flyin'
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When you do downloops it will generate considerable force. And you have to start turning before you hit the edge of the window. And as stated earlier
,regain ground when powered. I think once you learn to "powerfly" it, you'll be getting one heck of a workout,flying in next to no wind.
WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342
NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Brooza IV 3.0 prototype
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3 (lost at sea)
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!
RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER
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Aaeolien
Posts: 43
Registered: 9-5-2014
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My suggestion for those low winds. Invest in a RC airplane or helicopter or quadcopter. LOL Thats exactly what we do when the winds are that low. We
bring out the airplanes. We actually got into the kite thing because we couldn't fly the planes in the wind.
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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| Quote: | Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD  | | When you do downloops it will generate considerable force. And you have to start turning before you hit the edge of the window. And as stated earlier
,regain ground when powered. I think once you learn to "powerfly" it, you'll be getting one heck of a workout,flying in next to no wind. |
That's exactly what I was hoping to hear (and from the person I'd expect to know this kite best)! Definitely getting better with this kite and
enjoying it more and more.
[quote&author=Aaeolien]
My suggestion for those low winds. Invest in a RC airplane or helicopter or quadcopter. LOL Thats exactly what we do when the winds are that low. We
bring out the airplanes. We actually got into the kite thing because we couldn't fly the planes in the wind. |
But kiting is my obsession right now! Recently when I need to get out and the kites won't fly I've just been practicing with the mountain board. I
figure those skill will come in handy once the wind starts to improve.
Besides, I can't afford any RC stuff, I need to save that money for more kites!
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shehatesmyhobbies
Posts: 3670
Registered: 2-23-2009
Location: Clayton, DE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serious Buggy withdraws!
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Check and make sure that your back lines are a little slack, not so much that there is a huge difference from the front lines. If your back lines,
"brake"lines are too tight you will struggle to keep the kite in the air as well. They should have a slight droop to them
Rich
NAPKA President
US 66
www.napka.org
302 480 6008
Phantoms!
My ride: GT Rapide
Check out the Wildwood Buggy Bash Facebook page!
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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Yeah, I had that problem initially until I decided to make knots closer to my handles on the leader. Now that I've done that I'm able to actually fly
it a bit.
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rtz
Posts: 1106
Registered: 10-12-2010
Location: Edmond, OK
Member Is Offline
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Can a 360 be done with all size kites? I've never pulled one off; but in the video's I've seen is always with a large kite.
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markite
Posts: 1769
Registered: 3-8-2004
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada
Member Is Offline
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For me I like flying a larger kite that is a light kite and also a fast kite - so even in zero wind i can get it inflated with a few pumps and walking
back but once flying it doesn't take running just a gentle walk to get the kite to fly all round in any direction, very much like indoor kite flying.
But having a lighter kite that wants to fly and has a nice easy glide helps. Heavier kites take more pumping and smaller kites need a bit more speed
so depending on the kite size you may need a bit more of a jog to get the kite around. Out of all my kites the 6.5 Spirit is one of the nicest
handling when I'm playing around in zero wind. What you want is to really get a feel for the kite when to pump it a little and when to let it glide
and walk forward letting gravity help in a dive while slowing the kite down for nice gentle movements and less tiring to keep it flying smooth. All
this light wind flying will develop a really good kite sense that will help you get the most out of your kites when you need it.
Mark Groshens NAPKA KC 13
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn Arcs: Charger2 22.5 +18 + 15 + 6.5, Charger I 6, Scorpion 16 + 10, Phantom II 12 + 9, Orig Phantom 9 + 6, Synergy 10 + 8, F 1200, S 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17 + 12, Rise 13 + 10 + 7, Razor 9 + 6
Foils: PL Leopards and Lynx, Airea Raptors, some PL Reactor IIs + IIIs, Libre Spirits, Cross Kite Sonics, Ozone Flow
Peter Lynn Kite Cat for cruising the lakes
buggies: PL XR+, Cameleon Pagona, custom bigfoot, PL Bigfoot, custom ice buggy
Boards: 2 custom directionals, O.R Surf series 6-3 and 5-11, Mako Duke, Mako Skinny, Mako 140 Wide, Mako 150 Wide, Mako King, Brunotti
lots of old school skis, snowboard
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Brant
Posts: 59
Registered: 8-18-2014
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: Missing the snow
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I've been having the same problems, but the way I see it, at least I'm getting LOTS of practice laying out and packing up the kite.
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bigkid
Posts: 4178
Registered: 4-12-2009
Location: Somewhere over there -->
Member Is Offline
Mood: :-)
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To bad you know nothing about long lines. How about a 10m Century on 210' lines in ZERO wind and reaching 15mph in the buggy?
Guess fletch is the only other one that knows.
Appex buggy, Libre hardcore buggies.
Flexboardz. Blokarts.
PKD Century Soulflys. NPW's. Nasa Stars.
A few other less flown oddballs,
Line sets from 10" to 328" or 2m to 100m.
worlds only AQR that works.
North American distributor for PKD.
"Kite Bugging is not an addiction until you try to quit".
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BigMikesKites
Posts: 960
Registered: 12-24-2008
Location: Dallas (Area), TX
Member Is Offline
Mood: Go away RAIN
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Keep it moving and you should be good. Sometimes it is more of a workout than if you actually had some good wind.
Here are a few videos of low or no wind flying.
Skydog 9.3
http://youtu.be/bqUEWS-Kxws?list=UUGjDfgtjUP4bT_9ByIwrMuQ
Voltage 8.5m
http://youtu.be/n2684j6dY3A?list=UUGjDfgtjUP4bT_9ByIwrMuQ
Reactor 6.9m
http://youtu.be/1R3YF9P7bPA?list=UUGjDfgtjUP4bT_9ByIwrMuQ
Mike
Owner Big Mike's Kites
http://www.BigMikesKites.com
Kites: Most of them
Buggy: VTT BLACK WIDOW...The best
Peter Lynn XR+ w VTT Rail Kit
Landboard: Not a chance
Water: still trying |
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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| Quote: Originally posted by bigkid | To bad you know nothing about long lines. How about a 10m Century on 210' lines in ZERO wind and reaching 15mph in the buggy?
Guess fletch is the only other one that knows. |
I've seen the difference long lines can make, unfortunately I don't have the space for them. Having my Century II on my 20m lines means I only have a
little room to back up in some of my spots. Very jealous of your spot where you can put out 210' lines and still have room to move.
I feel like I'm flying in some of the worst conditions. I don't have much wind and I'm generally in a rather enclosed space surrounded by trees. I'm
managing somehow though and things are only getting better as Winter approaches.
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Online
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always keep an eye out for spots. My spots range from 5 minutes away to an hour away.
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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My problem is as an undergrad my time is very constrained. Combine that with my lack of a car and there aren't a whole lot of places I can go. My
furthest is maybe half an hour away, but pretty good when I can get out there. Once it snows over and there are fewer other people around I imagine
it'll get a lot better.
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bigE123
Posts: 442
Registered: 1-26-2012
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Flying in a tight spot surrounded by trees is really adding difficulty to flying. My 8m NPW needs @6mph but step up to the 11.5m and that will fly
easily in @3mph (that just feel the slight wind on your face time). I find taking a couple of steps back to get it lifted then keep it moving around
the centre of the window and keep working on those down turns to get some speed. As you take it across the centre that's the time to move forward
again. Low wind flying may not be adrenalin pumping stuff but you do really improve your skills.
Blade V 4.9m & 8.5m VIP,Ozone Frenzy 11m, SS Flexifoil buggy, PL hybrid suspension buggy (PTW), MBS core 95.
homemade:
NPW 9b: 7m (Union Jack). NPW 9b HA 3m (Damien) and 10m (Jolly R). NPW21 3m, 5m (aka Zombie), 8m (Batman), 11.5m (NASA), NPW 21 HA 6.8m
The Hammers 5m, 7.2m & 12m
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SpecialK
Posts: 135
Registered: 4-9-2014
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> My problem is as an undergrad my time is very constrained.
Haha.. as an undergrad, I don't think you know what constrained time is yet! Enjoy that while it lasts!
15m PL Charger II / 19m FS Speed 3 DLX / 13m PL Venom 1 / 9m HQ Montana 7 / 3m HQ Scout III / Trampa Holy Pro 15° /MBS Comp 90
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rofer
Posts: 315
Registered: 7-19-2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Praying for wind
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| Quote: Originally posted by SpecialK | > My problem is as an undergrad my time is very constrained.
Haha.. as an undergrad, I don't think you know what constrained time is yet! Enjoy that while it lasts!
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Heh, I'd argue otherwise. I generally work full-time over the summers and that's so much nicer. My time is really flexible now, but if I only have an
hour to spare that doesn't leave me with much I can do.
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Prioritize guys!! Fly all day, and work for one hour. Hard core kiters don't require much sustenance. The kite already serves as a hammock and shelter
after hours.
Joke of course... Lol
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
 
http://hint.fm/wind/
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Cerebite
Posts: 328
Registered: 5-6-2011
Location: China Lake Yacht Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: Is he using the same wind we are?
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Since I just about always have low winds I will chime in and or reiterate a couple of points made above:
Longer lines - I have just about completely given up on flying my big wings [8 -12m foils] on less than 30 m lines. At those sizes the ground
clearance for turning is severely compromised by the line length. The longer lines also help to get above the ground noise from your surroundings.
Chokes - different people have different terms for them, I call them chokes. This is a short [25 -30cm] auxiliary line that I use to connect the
drive lines to the brakes at the pigtails. I use a static connection at the drive and a dynamic connection at the brake ["o" or "d" ring]. These
effectively add about a meter of "area" to a kite by imposing constraint on the trailing edge and do wonders for finding power for the kites in low
wind.
NASA wings -1 to 12m [mostly KM4]
Foils -2 -12m [mostly PL & Pansh]
VTT Stinger on Midi's
Another day in Paradise...
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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Cerebite, that sounds interesting, can you post a picture of the chokes?
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kitemaker4
Posts: 1609
Registered: 10-3-2004
Location: Louisiana
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Mood: happy when buggying
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Just a note on nasa wings. You have to remember that foils are twin skin kites and nasa wings are single skin kites so they should do better in low
wind.
Susan (npw goddess)
PKD Brooza\'s 2, 3, 4 and 5.5 meter
Libre Bora\'s 6 and 7 meter
Libre stainless full race with standard and big foot light wheels
Nasa wings: npw5 0.4, 0.8, 1.2, 1.7, 2.4, 3.1, 3.9, 4.8, 5.8, 6.9 meters
npw9 3.4, 5.3, 6.0, 8.0, 9.0, 10.0, 11.0, 15.0 meters
Quadrifoil xm for sale
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Cerebite
Posts: 328
Registered: 5-6-2011
Location: China Lake Yacht Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: Is he using the same wind we are?
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I will have to see if I can find a photo. As I said a line [para-chord size] about 30 cm long after the knots are made [I also have some short ones
but they only work on the tiny [<2m] kites] with a c. 2 cm D or O ring on one end. Larkshead the end without the ring to the power lines and let
the ring end ride up and down [slide] on the brake lines.
The Z line that John H et al are doing on the NASA wings is a variant of the theme [fixed on both ends].
NASA wings -1 to 12m [mostly KM4]
Foils -2 -12m [mostly PL & Pansh]
VTT Stinger on Midi's
Another day in Paradise...
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robinsonpr
Posts: 351
Registered: 10-25-2014
Location: Stevenage UK
Member Is Offline
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I fly Revs to get a kite fix when there is no wind. They'll fly in a fart 
Rev 1.5 SLE
PL Pepper 1.5m, Twister III 3m
Flysurfer Peak I 6m, Peak II 12m
Ozone Access V6 6m, 4m incoming!
Arcs Venom 13m, Synergy 15m
LEIs Slingshot Rally 7m, 9, 12m
Kheo Flyer Landboard
PTW SuperBug II
Nobile NHP Carbon Split
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