smug stacy
Posts: 19
Registered: 5-28-2013
Member Is Offline
|
|
Control bar setup
I seem to be having interesting control bar issues with my 2014 Access 10m.
OK - so it's my understanding that back on the bar (pulling it towards my body) is supposed to result in more power and faster turning. Pushing the
bar away from my body (upwards) is supposed to result in less power and slower turning.
For some reason, my kite seems to be doing the complete opposite as far as power is concerned. If I pull the bar all the way towards me, it turns
faster --- but tends to fall backwards and decrease altitude. If I move the bar to fully depowered (all the way away from me), I get slower
steering.... but a massive boost in power and the kite flies higher in the sky.
I've already triple checked my lines to make sure everything is connected properly and it is. I'm guessing this may need to adjust the trim somewhere?
I'm starting to get used to it though. I'll dive it into the power, get rolling, then lean back and push the bar out to speed up.... but it has an
annoying habit of eventually moving out of the power since it wants to keep going forward. I think I'd rather just get it set up correctly LOL.
|
|
|
BeamerBob
Posts: 8308
Registered: 5-11-2007
Location: Down on the bayou
Member Is Offline
|
|
You seem to be set up correctly but you just aren't well powered enough or moving fast enough to get the kite working like it is designed to. I'm not
sure what you are rolling on but as the wind increases and/or your speed increases, the kite will start to behave like you expect. Think of it like a
gymkhana racer expecting his rear brake to have the same effect at 15 mph as it does when he is fully lit. When your kite is flying in light winds
and you pull the bar in, it's like putting the brakes on instead of making more power by catching more wind.
Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
|
|
|
elnica
Posts: 363
Registered: 12-12-2010
Location: Miami, FL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Pulling in the bar creates a surge of power instantly but also slows the kite down. Sheeting out decreases the projected area but also allows the kite
to fly faster and the faster you go the more apparent wind and power. Sometimes when I am overpowered going too fast and sheeting out doesn't help
(decreasing the projected area), I pull the bar in to slow the kite down. That's on water though, I wouldn't want to be overpowered on land.
Too many kites, boards, and etceteras.
|
|
|
PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
|
|
when the kite is depowered (bar out) it should move to the edge of the window. as soon as you are moving after surge of power , pull in til you find
the sweet spot for current speed of travel.
trim the kite in about half and keep adjusting it in until theres no back stall...you want the agile and speedy with solid power stroke as bar is
pulled in.
|
|
|
Chrisz
Posts: 295
Registered: 11-8-2013
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Member Is Offline
|
|
How much wind are you in, what knot are you using on the power lines and where do you have the trim strap? It sounds like you are pulling the bar too
far in for how you have the knots tied and the trim strap pulled, you will need to adjust for the wind conditions each time depending on where you
want the bar to be when you hit that sweet spot.
Down load the manual off the HQ website that will explain fine tuning.
So many kites so little money! Really I'm Broke!
HQ 5.5m, 8m & 11m Apex 4
Ozone Frenzy 11m
Cabrinha Switch Blade 14m & 10m
Cabrinha Stylus 155cm
|
|
|
Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
|
|
The term depower causes so much trouble.
Try and not think about depower but front line / back line input. + Angle of Attack. + Speed = Power.
That front line / back line input effects the kite a bit differently depending on the wind speed and if you are in motion as well or not.
With front line input your kite will want to travel fast through the window creating power boost during the speed. Speed = Power . Once it has hit the
edge it will fly farther into the window and be spilling the most wind possible due to AOA ( hand flat out the car window ) . Back line tension is
required to influence your turn.
With back line - brake input your kite will not travel through the window as fast. This lower speed of travel will produce less power. Once the kite
is at the edge of the window it will sit back a bit on the back lines. This AOA catches some of the wind and creates more lift / pull. ( Hand tipped a
bit up out the car window ) . When in motion with the kite at the edge pulling in the bar makes for a noticeable power boost . That is how it got the
name but that only applies properly in motion with proper winds.
It sounds like you are feeling things correctly and learning to adjust. 
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
|
|
|
RedSky
Posts: 1743
Registered: 9-7-2009
Member Is Offline
|
|
I agree with all the comments above. Trim for more depower to avoid backstall in low wind.
|
|
|
Cheddarhead
Posts: 1402
Registered: 12-4-2009
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
|
|
If your riding on thick grass or a slow surface like I am in the summer, you need a lot of power to keep rolling to make your kite work like it
should. Sounds exactly what I encounter with my buggy on soft grass. Rolling resistance is so great that the rider always wants to slow down. It's
hard to build apparent wind with that senario if not properly powered.
SS Turbine 17m
SS Rally 14m
SS Rally 12m
SS RPM 10m
SS Rally 8m
SS Rally 6m
FS Speed 3 15m dlx
FS Peak 2 6m
Ozone Frenzy 9m
Ozone Access XT 6m
PL Farc 1200
What I ride:
Home brew buggy
Volkl race tiger DH 210
Dynastar DH 218
Blizzard Cochise 185
Steepwater 179 twin tip
Aboards Reverse 161
|
|
|
smug stacy
Posts: 19
Registered: 5-28-2013
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: |
You seem to be set up correctly but you just aren't well powered enough or moving fast enough to get the kite working like it is designed to. I'm not
sure what you are rolling on but as the wind increases and/or your speed increases, the kite will start to behave like you expect. Think of it like a
gymkhana racer expecting his rear brake to have the same effect at 15 mph as it does when he is fully lit. When your kite is flying in light winds and
you pull the bar in, it's like putting the brakes on instead of making more power by catching more wind.
|
I'm on a mountainboard BeamerBob. Your reply is a load off my mind as far as being worried that I was not set up correctly. I thought I was just
building up bad habits working with a kludgy setup.
I'm able to get moving pretty quickly but also do a whole lot of nursing the kite back into the power
From putting together you, PHREEDIDER's and Elnica's posts sounds like I just need to get into the habit of pulling in the bar after that first boost.
| Quote: |
Pulling in the bar creates a surge of power instantly but also slows the kite down. Sheeting out decreases the projected area but also allows the kite
to fly faster and the faster you go the more apparent wind and power. Sometimes when I am overpowered going too fast and sheeting out doesn't help
(decreasing the projected area), I pull the bar in to slow the kite down. That's on water though, I wouldn't want to be overpowered on land.
|
That further confirms the "pull the bar towards the body once moving" part. When I have the bar all the way out in the beginning, I keep expecting
that energy to be constant.
| Quote: |
when the kite is depowered (bar out) it should move to the edge of the window. as soon as you are moving after surge of power , pull in til you find
the sweet spot for current speed of travel.
trim the kite in about half and keep adjusting it in until theres no back stall...you want the agile and speedy with solid power stroke as bar is
pulled in.
|
That was precisely what was happening. I kept having to hard steer it back into the power whenever it would drift too far into the edge, and what was
really the only time I would pull it in.
We're getting some decent winds tomorrow (crossing fingers) so I look forward to trying this out.
| Quote: |
How much wind are you in, what knot are you using on the power lines and where do you have the trim strap? It sounds like you are pulling the bar too
far in for how you have the knots tied and the trim strap pulled, you will need to adjust for the wind conditions each time depending on where you
want the bar to be when you hit that sweet spot.
Down load the manual off the HQ website that will explain fine tuning.
|
Chrisz, I typically don't leave the house unless it's around 10 knots or more. With my Ozone access, I'm using the basic setup and haven't changed
any of the knots to alternate positions yet. The trim strap is fully out (never really used it yet either).
I have the Ozone manual, but will also download the HQ one too.
| Quote: |
The term depower causes so much trouble.
Try and not think about depower but front line / back line input. + Angle of Attack. + Speed = Power.
That front line / back line input effects the kite a bit differently depending on the wind speed and if you are in motion as well or not.
With front line input your kite will want to travel fast through the window creating power boost during the speed. Speed = Power . Once it has hit the
edge it will fly farther into the window and be spilling the most wind possible due to AOA ( hand flat out the car window ) . Back line tension is
required to influence your turn.
With back line - brake input your kite will not travel through the window as fast. This lower speed of travel will produce less power. Once the kite
is at the edge of the window it will sit back a bit on the back lines. This AOA catches some of the wind and creates more lift / pull. ( Hand tipped a
bit up out the car window ) . When in motion with the kite at the edge pulling in the bar makes for a noticeable power boost . That is how it got the
name but that only applies properly in motion with proper winds.
It sounds like you are feeling things correctly and learning to adjust.
|
That's very encouraging to hear Bladerunner. Also, your explanation of AOA reflects what I've been experiencing out in the field.
| Quote: |
If your riding on thick grass or a slow surface like I am in the summer, you need a lot of power to keep rolling to make your kite work like it
should. Sounds exactly what I encounter with my buggy on soft grass. Rolling resistance is so great that the rider always wants to slow down. It's
hard to build apparent wind with that senario if not properly powered.
|
Cheddarhead, I know the feeling. Actually, the best (biggest) field I've found so far (I'm in Nashville Tennessee) is a giant abandoned airfield East
of the city - but the grass is so thick and inconsistently cut that it's not worth it. It's not like smooth soccer field grass where you take off like
a rocket. More like "cut with a tractor" cow pasture kind of stuff where you just sorta static fly til it hits the power, then you immediately fall
over when the board doesn't decide to roll.
The field I use more often is a giant place close to downtown that has 9 adjacent soccer and football fields. Very smooth frequently trimmed grass.
|
|
|
alieen
Posts: 1
Registered: 12-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
With front line input your kite will want to travel fast through the window creating power boost during the speed. Speed = Power . Once it has hit the
edge it will fly farther into the window and be spilling the most wind possible due to AOA ( hand flat out the car window ) .
http://pass4-sure.me
|
|
|
robinsonpr
Posts: 351
Registered: 10-25-2014
Location: Stevenage UK
Member Is Offline
|
|
I notice you said you have the trim all the way out. I made the same mistake when first flying my Venom. Having it set like that will give you
maximum "potential" power and also maximum backstall when pulling the bar in. Also no room to let it out if you need to though.
I would try it trimmed half way in as Phreerider suggests and then fine tune from there! Of course it all depends on the winds but starting from half
way in will give you room to adjust either way.
I'm learning to board too and I had my first eureka moment when I was nicely powered and had my kite parked in one position. Like this pulling the
bar in (a little!) did noticeably speed me up and pushing out slightly dropped the power. that has only happened once, but once is enough to realise
how it should feel! Good luck!
Rev 1.5 SLE
PL Pepper 1.5m, Twister III 3m
Flysurfer Peak I 6m, Peak II 12m
Ozone Access V6 6m, 4m incoming!
Arcs Venom 13m, Synergy 15m
LEIs Slingshot Rally 7m, 9, 12m
Kheo Flyer Landboard
PTW SuperBug II
Nobile NHP Carbon Split
|
|
|
Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
|
|
Trim setting is a bit of a personal choice.
I start out trimmed in no matter the wind speed. We often have light wind so I only trim out about 20%. I fly the kite fast through the window on the
front lines and then pull in as I approach the edge to influence turning + not over fly.
In winds that are stronger I usually trim out to 50% or so. I only trim out fully when I am going to jump. I trim back in if I feel overpowered.
Most folks I know seem to open the strap full as soon as the wind is decent.
Now that you are a little more clear play with the trim strap and see what works for you. Robin sounds like he experienced the true feeling of
depower. It only really happens like you would expect when you are at speed with the kite at the edge or jumping. Then when you pull in the bar you
really feel the power come on. The kite drops back a bit in the window and getting upwind is a bit harder if it is overhead it gives you boost. Like
tipping the back of your hand out the car window.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
|
|
|
EddyP
Posts: 11
Registered: 12-17-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
I use a 7m bullet, which was set-up by a mate of mine and often needs adjusting itself, otherwise it's just uncomfortable. Sounds similar to yours;
it's set-up correctly but environment can have a massive effect on how your kite moves.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/perspective/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
