From some of the reviews I have read, they seem to be "arc-like". They seem like they would behave similar to a twinskin being they hay to support
there shape.
As for the future... I think the future will be foils. Tubes won the battle over foils in the beginning hence why they are so popular today. Tubes
have been about pushed to there design limit. Compared to foils they aren't very efficient. They are heavy and the one skin causes lots of drag and
inefficiencies . The main advantage of tubes is the sled boosting effect. Basically the kite wants to stay in a high lift state as long as possible
when jumping. Foils (especially arcs) do about the opposite as they want to get rid of the lift as fast as possible. They get lift from speed and
efficiency. New foil designs are increasing the sled boosting effect while new tube designs are decreasing the sled boosting effect.
These are a step forward but I still believe foils will win in the end.
Arcs - Charger I 8m, 10m, 12m, Venom I 13m - F-Arc 1200, 1600
Single Skin - Born-Kite LongStar2
Fixed Bridles - Pansh Legend 4.5m - Peter Lynn Voltage 3m
Nah, I think tubes will always be here. They're so much less hassle in general - comparing a foil to a tube IS like comparing a Ferrari to a Toyota...
but sometimes you just don't want to be bothered with all the tuning and maintenance.
Snake, very good points. But I think Kami is right about market appeal. Foils are fringe. I steal this saying from helicopter pilots but... Any Idiot
can fly a tube kite, it takes a special idiot to fly a foil.
Kami, what do you mean tubes are less maintenance? Tubes have leaky valves and popped bladders. I've never done any maintenance to my arcs. Prefilling
is pretty much equivalent to pumping. Flysurfers are about the only foil that I know of that need regular tune-ups, but they also have that Ferrari
price tag and if I was spending that much on a kite I definitely want it to preform at it's best at all times. I'm not saying the future will be
tubeless. I'm saying that most will switch to foils. I always read "I'll never go back to tubes now that I tried a flysurfer speed 3" but I never hear
it the other way around.
Arcs - Charger I 8m, 10m, 12m, Venom I 13m - F-Arc 1200, 1600
Single Skin - Born-Kite LongStar2
Fixed Bridles - Pansh Legend 4.5m - Peter Lynn Voltage 3m
Kami, what do you mean tubes are less maintenance? Tubes have leaky valves and popped bladders............I'm not saying the future will be tubeless.
I'm saying that most will switch to foils. I always read "I'll never go back to tubes now that I tried a flysurfer speed 3" but I never hear it the
other way around.
You seem to be calling your personal anecdotes "data" and that doesn't work very well.(or you're just repeating "something" that "someone" told you,
which is MUCH worse....) I've seen plenty of posts about stuck zippers on arcs, but that never stopped me from trying one. I personally fly two
LEI's that are 4 &5 years old and no leaks. Popped one bladder in my life on a 8 year old Slingshot fuel.
A wing is a wing. Treat it right, and it'll treat you right. Beat it up, and it'll fail.
I personally think this kind of discourse is best left at the zoo, have seen & participated in too many arguments from PumpMeUp to ever debate
foil VS Lei again. (Oh god, a quick google shows a first rant on this subject in 2002. I had no idea.)
Still waiting for a hybrid mix foil with bladder that offers the best of both worlds. That design looks like it has shed a good amount of weight from
struts. Foil vs tube has been beaten to death far too many times. Fly what you like, because you are gonna do best with what you are most comfortable
with. I doubt either design will ever completely overtake the other.
what I fly/ride:
19m Flysurfer Speed 2 SA
12m Flysurfer Speed2
6m Ozone access xt
1.5m Ozone imp trainer
144cm Airush Switch
152cm lib tech skate banana
MBS Pro 90
Jereme Leafe Pro 95
Kami, what do you mean tubes are less maintenance? Tubes have leaky valves and popped bladders. I've never done any maintenance to my arcs. Prefilling
is pretty much equivalent to pumping. Flysurfers are about the only foil that I know of that need regular tune-ups, but they also have that Ferrari
price tag and if I was spending that much on a kite I definitely want it to preform at it's best at all times. I'm not saying the future will be
tubeless. I'm saying that most will switch to foils. I always read "I'll never go back to tubes now that I tried a flysurfer speed 3" but I never hear
it the other way around.
After using tubes and foils side-by-side for the past 3 years, I've finally got a slow leak in one of the struts… I wash them occasionally and tune
the bar once a year and that's all I've done to them.
The Speeds, on the other hand there's always something to fiddle
with.
Performance-wise, the Speed3 is well ahead but it comes at a price—finicky handling. Punchy wind is not their friend either. For just sheeting in
and going, LEIs take the cake.
Pre-felling is like pumping, if you stand around with the pump in one hand, doing nothing can't beat my Speeds for hitting the beach, unrolling the kite and lines and just getting onto the water in a HURRY!
I'll leave the leaking kite with the shop guy for a day and it'll be fixed for a couple of bucks
Its an interesting development for sure. Some manufacturers (airush, boardriders) are going for big light wind designs and Naish at least are using
packability for travel as the selling point. The prototype is a 10m.
I think they will be an option in these 2 markets but thats all. Strong &/or gusty winds need a high tension canopy and lots of struts.
Nobody really considers foils as a serious choice for general use on the water. They are better in light wind but kitesurfing is not much fun in light
wind anyway. On land its the other way round, LEI have a few specialist benefits (Boost, float and stability) but they are an unpractical choice for
the majority of land based riders.
If foil sales couldn't compete with LEI when LEI had limited wind range, useless depower, awkward re-launch and dubious safety and construction I
really can't see them becoming dominant now. I can't fault the newer LEIs i have flown.
I think its more personal preference these days. All the types of kite are good and you can just fly what you want.
I got to use that Airush One 18m strutless in super-light wind in Thailand this summer... you gotta make sure it's pumped right the hell up or it'll
fold the wing tips when you load it up. I wouldn't trust it jumping when over-powered like I do my XB16 or Flite 17... but for mowing the lawn, it
seems to do ok. Speed3 21 is far more fun though, despite being a lot slower. I personally wasn't impressed with the power the Airush made in turns so
don't see it as an option for light wind.
The Naish Ride 10m I've seen here a few times, used by directional riders... seems ok for what it does - for little riders.
Tried Airush 18m in 7-8 knot wind. Pulls well, BUT it sits a lot further in the wind window and I don't think wakestyle and low wind mix well. Upwind
sucked. Lot of flutter when depowered is usual for strutless or one strut but that doesn't bother me that much.
I'd much rather fly my LF NRG Light Breeze 16m on 30m lines or my Speed3 19m Deluxe in the same conditions but it's just my personal preference. Flew
Turbine on the same day - it needed extension lines badly.
I love the theory about "big kite for a fat guy" and a "big lightwind kite"
Do not expect 14m Slingshot RPM to be your low wind savior.
Three things I would prioritize as follows.
1. A door or proper lightwind surfboard
2. Long lines - 30-35m lines give you whole lot of a apparent wind to get going
3. True lightwind kite, not a depower paper bag
I've got all 3 on my kite shelf. I regularly fly fixed bridle kites, have some large foils on my wishlist, and an LEI has high promises to be my next
go fast kite. An LEI took me faster this spring than I've ever been in the buggy. My 8m Montana 8 is one of the best kites I've ever flown. Don't
miss the chance to fly a great kite because of how it's made.
I wonder about the possibilities of rigid strut framed kites we haven't seen yet for land use. We aren't in the golden era of kite power yet, but we
have some great stuff available right now.
Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore IvanpahBuggyExpo.com Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
I'd use LEI's because the kite keeps its shape and I love the security of depower. However, 40+mph with a fixed bridle takes much more balls than I'm
willing to lose.
Few more years and looks like the strutless kites are here to stay.
The one strut LF Solo looks like a nice compromise too.
Enjoyed the development history video on the 3 generations of cloud strutless kites that founder/designer/rider Greg Drexler shared.
Watching the video of his riding style and listening to his passion for hydrofoil-boarding is also inspiring.
![[*]](images/perspective/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
there's always something to fiddle
with.
can't beat my Speeds for hitting the beach, unrolling the kite and lines and just getting onto the water in a HURRY!
