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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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First set of Doom wheel constuction
I've been to the local bike shops and been searching for weeks online, now I finally think that ive found a suitable wheel:
Durchmesser: 310 mm
Breite Lauffläche: 55mm
Nabenbreite 54mm
Tragkraft: 75kg
Gewicht: ca. 980g
für Lagergröße 6201 oder 6002 (Aussendurchmesser 32mm)
they need these bearing:
Standard Kugellager 6002 2Z
Rillenkugellager, einreihig, DIN625
Standard Rillenkugellager der Größe 6002 2Z, mit beidseitigen Deckscheiben die den Innenbereich des Kugellagers vor eindringen von Schmutzpartikeln
schützen.
Innendurchmesser: 15mm
Außendurchmesser: 32mm
Breite: 9mm
My first question is will this be enough to keep dirt and sand out? Or should I look for another 32mm bearing? I'd use plenty of fett/grease on the
outside as a preventative measure. Since they call it the standard Kugellager 6002, and it's pretty inexpensive, i'm skeptical.
My second question is about the rails. I looked at a bunch of rollskis which all had plates mounted on the outside edge of an aluminum core. Does
this make sense fo Doom Wheels too? I've read through a lot of old posts and am curious to see what materials have stood up over time. Yes, the steel
rails 3/8 inch were the beginning, but Dan Doom's Moster Wheels look pretty sick and fuctional too.
thanks for input
Cheers
Peter
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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furbowski
Posts: 1470
Registered: 5-1-2008
Location: hong kong
Member Is Offline
Mood: stuck on a small island with big trees and tiny beaches...
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Can't help with the rails, but can with the bearings.
The ones in the picture are, as far as I know, not possible to maintain. The cover for the bearing race won't come out in good enough condition to
snap back in again, so one cannot clean and re-lubricate the bearing race.
However, the bearings will last well enough, depending on your conditions. I have the same on my coyotes, and they will only last two or three
sessions for me. However my conditions are worse case: fine, dirty sand on wet saltwater beach hardpack. In drier conditions, you would get quite a
bit more life out of them. The problem with using grease on the outside as protection is that the grease will ultimately pull dirt into the bearing
race.
At least they are inexpensive. I always keep a spare set on hand, and part of session prep for me is checking the spin on my wheels and replacing
bearings as needed, usually I need to change out a few. I think you may be best off treating them as somewhat disposable. Note that I ride worse
case: in and out of salt water on sandy beaches. You'll get more life than me in any other setting, lots more in some. Even dry hardpack beach will
be lots better, but you'll want a few on hand, ready to change out.
I've tried soaking in gasoline and solvents, didn't help and also took out the lubrication inside. Now I clean sparingly after sessions, trying not
to soak them with the water i use nor use so much pressure that I'll drive water inside the bearings.
I'd love to be proven wrong as I hate disposing of a couple bearings every session, but that's been my experience so far.
I should mention that I'm cheap and buy my bearings used for about 25 cents each in street stalls in Hong Kong, where I live and do most of my riding.
The bearings on my mountainboard are maintainable, and so the MTB is my ride of choice for wet beach settings.
Good luck with the rails, there's info way back in the old pages of this forum somewhere... But others will be able to give you better advice.
There are some tricks to the spacing and mounting of the boots, directly on the centerline is not actually best if I recall correctly.
fixed bridles, flying static, been two years now... ??? folks must be wondering....
sting 1.7, dp power 2.5, crossfire 3.2, ace 5, blade iv 6.5, ace 8, ace 12...
also a couple of arcs, 12 syn and 12 phanny, but i\'m not yet up to speed on them.
(13.11.09)
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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i used the exact same wheel set , very light, salt tolerant easy parts source as well,
i used Aluminum rails (1"x1/2"x30")with both 8" and 12 wheels. i much prefer the 8" .. the bearing are virtually disposable about 300hours and they
fail faster with salt water intrusion.
really would not worry about it. rinse with water then WD40. ...ONLY IF THEY THEY GET WET.
the metal sheild are the worst IF THEY GET WET ALOT, rubber shielding is preferred they just wash better.
if u kept things dry, the bearings will last even longer
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furbowski
Posts: 1470
Registered: 5-1-2008
Location: hong kong
Member Is Offline
Mood: stuck on a small island with big trees and tiny beaches...
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Hmmmm, maybe I should buy some new ones!
fixed bridles, flying static, been two years now... ??? folks must be wondering....
sting 1.7, dp power 2.5, crossfire 3.2, ace 5, blade iv 6.5, ace 8, ace 12...
also a couple of arcs, 12 syn and 12 phanny, but i\'m not yet up to speed on them.
(13.11.09)
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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handling the bearings, messy PLUS solvent waste and exposure, disposal of the solvent is far more a problem than a bearing. roll thru the crunchy
parts ..bearing still has a ton of life!
after a ride lube to free roll with a spin and your set to go next time... a little crunch to roll and some noise will be present but of no
consequence. sometimes the lock if setting for a while and thats just needs lube and back and forth roll til its free. and the session ON!
on the parts choice for the bearing/axle/wheels you should stay within the ATB parts source (or bike) so it a common part and low buck. if you go to
an odd ball size it will be $$$
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furbowski
Posts: 1470
Registered: 5-1-2008
Location: hong kong
Member Is Offline
Mood: stuck on a small island with big trees and tiny beaches...
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OK, never mind the dirt, just crunch through it and light oil for lube?
fixed bridles, flying static, been two years now... ??? folks must be wondering....
sting 1.7, dp power 2.5, crossfire 3.2, ace 5, blade iv 6.5, ace 8, ace 12...
also a couple of arcs, 12 syn and 12 phanny, but i\'m not yet up to speed on them.
(13.11.09)
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5621
go through this thread lots of pics, 12"/8", offset spacer stuff.
should help
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by furbowski
OK, never mind the dirt, just crunch through it and light oil for lube? |
thats the ticket ! bearing will sound sick at first but within a few moments into the session ...its something new!
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Mainekite
Posts: 171
Registered: 9-22-2011
Location: Southern Maine
Member Is Offline
Mood: pray for wind
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Where did you find the wheels, and were they reasonable, I've been looking for some for awhile now. Im thinking of building mine on a platform with
snowboard type bindings so that I can wear my own shoes or boots as needed.
Napka US716
Flexifoil Sting 1.7
Pansh Sprint 2.8
Prism Tensor 3.1
Flexifoil bullet 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 7.0
Pansh Ace 5.0
Pansh Flux 6.0
Pansh Blaze II 7.0, 12
Venom II 10
Cabrinha Switchblade 8.0, 12.0 Crossbow 16.0
Pansh Aurora 15
Peter Lynn folder+, Rockville kite trike, snowspider
mbs core 90, mbs grasshopper,skis, snowboards, skates, surfboards, wakeboards, kiteboards
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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I Updated the original post to include links to the site where i Found them.
Here is the link.Wheel
Thanks for all the posts. I'll let y'all know how they turn out. There's a custom bike shop around the corner called PedalPower.de I wonder what they
might have kicking around their scrap metal pile.
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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so 4 aluminum 30" rails weigh six pounds and the wheels make for 8.6 lbs plus boots and frames = c. 10lbs a skate
@Phreerider
did you do your own drilling or have them machined in a shop? Seems it would be easier to drill something not round.
1/2" {A} x 1" {B} 7075-T6 Aluminum-By the Inch
SKU: 75f.5x1
Length Tolerance: Plus 1/8", Minus 0
Material Inch Price: $0.96
Total Material Price: $115.20
Total Process Fee: $0.00
Approximate Piece Weight: 1.50 lbs
Approximate Total Weight: 6.00 lbs
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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the weigh is stout ..legs will smoke in a hour session! coyotes are 7lbs. doomwheels far more stable 40+mph.
complete DIY after meaasure mark +30min ready to rock! common part knowledge from bearing size and hub width can make quick easy hardware store run.
not that 7505 alloy, you don't NEED that much caliber ...6061 is fine at dim.
you could but too heavy imho
here you go
http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-2275-8351-12-x-1-6061-t6511-a...
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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The 1" is enough to have 5mm around the axle hole. I was thinking that the 1 1/4" inch would cover/ protect the bearing better. Weight is probably
more important than a two euro bearing though. and 6061 it wil be.
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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mdpminc
Posts: 292
Registered: 1-5-2010
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Member Is Offline
Mood: so want to get out, but no free time :-(
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ghetto wheels
I considered using a 10" junior BMX wheels, then use the front forks from kids bikes (found several at local recycling depot for pennys) and welding
them to square tubing, then bolting on some old snowboard bindings or old hockey skates boots.
concept still in development .. 
Foils: Phantom2 15, Aurora 19 custom, F-1200, S-840, JN Luis 10, JN Randas 8
Inflados: Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17.5m, Rise LW15m, Razor 12m and 10m, Prodigy 7m
Boards: Mako Duke, Mako King, 6'6" Bushman shortned to 5'8"
Land 'n snow: "Tsar" RC2000 Nobile, 150 SantaCruz TT with IceBlade, 159 Mongoose Grand Slalom
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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Gemmel Metalle
This is a shop here in Berlin. They've got 6060, which is also the same family of alloys as 6061, but maybe not as rigid and corrosion proof.
I've got a question about the length now. The diameter of the wheels is 310mm, so the radius is 155mm , so if I add 180 mm from the end of the inline
frame, and drill a 15 mm hole centered at 170mm from the end of the inline frame, I think I will have 15 mm clearance on the frame and 25 mm to the
end of the bar.
Length of frame (285mm) + 360mm= 645 mm
So Will that be long enough? Am I forgetting anything? This is a good bit shorter than 30" which is why I ask.
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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about 26+" , i left more room for wheel clearence and room for tooling the ends. also i bought 60" sections ...so one cut and done. clamp together
drill center axle hole ....when you're tired of the 12 '' , you can drill centered holes for 8" wheels.
axle diameter ?bearing size? 15mm ? is that common? i think 12mm r cheaper....hub size on the wheelset must 15mm bike ..
anyway seems ok
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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15mm is Shimano's standard for MTB Front axels. Hard to find for a decent price, but I've got a friend in Switzerland with a machine shop and a
budding kite addiction, so the price to make 8 axles is actually less than it is to make 4.
He's going to mill down a 20mm rod of 6061 aluminum to make plugs to put on a 8mm thru bolt. Back wheel will be centered 10.5mm from the rails and the
front will be 5mm from the inside rail.
I should be done by the end of the week, just as my recently thrashed kite comes out of the repair shop. I'll post pics when I get back to Berlin
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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6061 for the axle? seems too light . axles should steel.
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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just waiting for axels
decided on the steel tube for the axels, set on 8m stainless steel thru bolts. Have to wait until my friend finds time to make them, though. Meanwhile
I''l stick to the powerslides on the tarmac.
A note on the wheels that I bought, the bearings are set at different depths one side is at 3mm
and the other at 7mm
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
Member Is Offline
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You planning on riding over hills, gutters and small children in those?!? Damn, those are some Wheels of Doom! I'd go so far as to call them Wheels of
Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth 
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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off set built in!
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
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NICE,
If you have some wide open space you should be able to hit some amazing high speeds on those !
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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i just noticed, those wheels are HUGE...HEAVY?
the rails are SO wide. managing those will be challenging . careful
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rectifier
Posts: 265
Registered: 4-21-2012
Location: Saskatchewan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Shredding
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I work with bearings on a daily basis so I can give you some tips on the dirt problem.
You can get 6201 or 6002 bearings at any local bearing supplier (SKF, NSK etc...). Both are common bearings and are available in 2RS (2 rubber seals)
or what is often called VV (2 non-contact rubber seals).
6201 have a smaller shaft (12mm), 6002 are a weaker bearing with tiny balls but a thicker shaft (15mm). Your choice, 6201 is significantly tougher
under impact loading... and you are unlikely to bend the 12mm shaft.
Drag from the 2RS seals will slow down something like a skateboard pretty bad. But as you have plenty of power, they may be OK. They keep almost all
dirt out and most splashed water, though they are not made to be immersed.
The VV's are close but not quite touching. They are much better than the ZZ (metal shields) but do not drag. They are great on a skateboard.
Consider bearings of that size disposable, not worth re-packing. However, when they are new, you can pop off the seals carefully and add more grease.
This will help keep moisture out and make them last longer so you don't have to take your wheels off quite so soon.
Homebuilt: 1m NPW9b, 2.6m NPW21, 7m NPW21 UDS
HQ: 3.2m Crossfire, 5m + 7m Apex 3
6m Ozone Explore v2
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elnica
Posts: 363
Registered: 12-12-2010
Location: Miami, FL
Member Is Offline
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What is the advantage of a long wheelbase like this over something like coyotes? Just speed? I've only ever ridden coyotes but it seems like they are
heavy enough and fast enough, at least for soccer field riding.
Long wheel base = more torque when falling = ankle death?
Heavy = sucks when not wind powered (setting up).
Good design & materials could mean less weight than coyotes?
I guess you can go faster but if you fall those things aren't "popping off", they are "popping ankles". Maybe install a ski mount rather than bolting
the ski boots on so the ski boots pop off under torque.
Falling is just a matter of time.
Too many kites, boards, and etceteras.
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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The axels/ spacers are done and in the mail. Thanks for all the contructive comments-- can't wait to try them out (and Weigh them
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elnica
What is the advantage of a long wheelbase like this over something like coyotes? Just speed? I've only ever ridden coyotes but it seems like they are
heavy enough and fast enough, at least for soccer field riding.
Long wheel base = more torque when falling = ankle death?
Heavy = sucks when not wind powered (setting up).
Good design & materials could mean less weight than coyotes?
I guess you can go faster but if you fall those things aren't "popping off", they are "popping ankles". Maybe install a ski mount rather than bolting
the ski boots on so the ski boots pop off under torque.
Falling is just a matter of time. |
Yes, I see it pretty much like you do.
I seem to have a wall at 40mph that I can't break through on the Coyotes. Part the blades but I think almost as much mental. If I was younger and
didn't already have one rod in my leg I would go to this style to try and beat Bob Childs 50mph but like you said I would incorperate bindings.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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Badam
Posts: 8
Registered: 3-27-2015
Member Is Offline
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Those wheels are ideal, thanks for doing the leg work, they're better than anything I've found. Did you finish your build yet? If so, how did they
turn out? I'm getting a wee bit obsessed by Doomwheels now...!
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Suds after thuds
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: island time
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they wound up being 4.5kg each and worked really well as I was cutting my teeth kiting. I had a much smoother ride than on the powerslide xc trainers
and they never collected grass between the rails and bearings. I had some interesting crashes, but I'd put on par with learning to telemark. I never
had issues with the ankles until I broke the skate boot (this happened in a suitcase i think): , then it was a little loose as the crack just kept on
growing.
I went with a xsjado L for my new boot, but it turns out I am a S. The couple of times I went out with them after the re-boot I had issues holding an
edge. Need more ankle strength or a tighter boot. Before they broke I felt really confident carving and sliding with them. I keep missing on ebay
auctions to get the same boot as I had before. I decided to focus on building board skills to help transition to water.
It was a fun project, and the initial results were a lot of fun, but heavy!
Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m
Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
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Badam
Posts: 8
Registered: 3-27-2015
Member Is Offline
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Sounds like quite a ride (in more ways than one). I'm really excited to build these things and just want to make sure I make as many good decisions
early on as possible. I'm going to build a pair for myself and my girlfriend and, while I don't mind being a guinea pig I don't want to build her a
death trap (though "Doomwheels" isn't exactly subtle!). I'm planning on getting used to the skates with some off-road nordic style stuff and then
starting on a 5m kite (Peter Lynn Hornet). I don't know how sensible that is but I'm pulled in that direction. I've just heard back from the wheel
company and they reckon they should be able to ship to UK. Would you rate your choice of wheels? I like the look of them.
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