Power Kite Forum

All Blades and no Hakas....why?

DonaldLL - 5-8-2009 at 10:00 PM

hello fellow junkies,
I have been browsing YouTube and everywhere just to get more information on this great sport. I found a couple of great videos on youtube. In these vids I saw some 5m and 7m Ozone Hakas. Most everyday is a new day of disovery for me (noob) so of course this latest discovery generates questions. Hence, you guys are bombarded almost daily with my inquiries.

I gather that the Haka is Ozone's version of Flexifoli Blade? First, please correct me if my assumption is wrong.
Now I just don't see alot on the forum here about the Haka but I perceive the Blade as being one of the favorites. Am I correct or just a misperception on my part? Why no Hakas? Please enlighten :puzzled:

Thanks

OreBeamer - 5-8-2009 at 10:04 PM

Yeah the haka is more of a "freestyle" kite similar to a blade.

B-Roc - 5-9-2009 at 06:40 AM

As stated, the Haka is Ozone's equivalent to the Blade and as you've observed it clearly doesn't get the same amount of press. While I've never flown one I assume the Haka's build quality is superb but my guess is that its simply not as popular because Ozone spent a lot more time bringing out and improving their depowerables while Flexi has released generation after generation of the blade.

Conversely, it you look at Flexi and Ozone equivalents in the depower market, the Sabre was never as popular as the Frenzy and the Sabre is now discountinued while the Frenzy lives on.

Simply put, the kite's popularity and market share grew (or failed to grow) with the companies interest (or lack thereof) in supporting a particular market segment and developping products to fit that market.

DonaldLL - 5-9-2009 at 08:43 AM

B-Roc... yup I see what you mean. That answers my question

Thanks

ikemiester - 5-9-2009 at 12:53 PM

Also remember that before ozone made the haka there was the riot and another one I think. Ozone has been known to change names of kites (for example the razor to yakuza) while flexi goes Blade 1 blade 2 etc. Both great kites, both built well both have good performance. It comes down to personal preference on small things.

SCREWYFITS - 5-9-2009 at 05:17 PM

I have both HAKA and Blade IV and I prefer the Blade IV, that being said I'll sell the HAKA to anyone interested at a "GREAT PRICE" U2U me if you want it at a great price, it's like new, flown 4-5 times, maybe 3-4 hrs total on it... Its the orange, black and gray one, absolutely beautiful IMO...

My favorite looking kite, it just doesn't come out of the bag very often when I have the Blade IV...



It is a very lifty kite, just needs good wind and it turns on a dime on the handles without break input...

I got a Crossfire II that is up for a good home, also at a great deal...

Both, I'll sell to PKF members only...

I'm officially going to list them up on DAKITEZ if no one responds...

Sorry for the Semi-Hijack...

DonaldLL - 5-9-2009 at 08:11 PM

SCREWYFITS

I see you have a 5m Haka and 6.5m Blade. When comparing these 2 do you prefer the Blade because it is bigger and all that comes with being a bigger kite or is it something in some other characteristic(s) of the Blade that you prefer it over your Haka?

SCREWYFITS - 5-9-2009 at 08:44 PM

The Blade is just a finely tuned machine and its just amazing overall, it has a AOA built in and a crossover break line thingamajig that is adjustable and helps the kite turn so much faster... the size thing is not as big a deal to me, if I'm gonna jump I want a 6.5 or larger most of the time, I started on a 5 and would not change that, it takes a lot more wind to get me to use a 5 any more, just because my skill level has allowed me to handle a larger kite...

The Blade is so stable that its literally hard to shake it out of the sky... very predictable, and can be adjusted from low to high lift that makes it more versatile in most wind conditions... Plus the handles alone are worth the purchase of a Blade IV, the Blades are spendy though!!! $750 or around there...
Good luck, in your hunt...

You know that the HAKA's are rare here in the states also, not too many made it here (that I know of) and not to many places can get them from what I understand, I had to wait for what seemed like 3-4 months to get mine then I don't use it ever so I'd rather pass it on to some one that can get some good use out of it... Plus I'm starting to gather Flysurfers and pushing to get into to the water also, due to all our spots are getting taken away, at least it seems... I'll never give up on the fixed foils just need to add to the sport for me...

RonH - 5-10-2009 at 09:13 AM

I've got a 5.0 meter Riot... (kite before the Haka)

Very nice kite and I'm sure the Haka is too.

Lack of AOA adjustment isn't as big a deal as some want everyone to believe. While you can adjust Aoa to make a kite fly out of it's preferred wind range, it does change how the kite flys.

Bottom line here is if you come across a blade or a haka for a good price, they are both good kites that will last a long time.

Ron

speleopower - 5-10-2009 at 10:10 AM

Blades are fantastic kites. No bad habits that I have found.
Scott

USA_Eli_A - 5-10-2009 at 10:15 AM

Haka is pretty amazing as far as how much power and lift it'll make in short time.

Probably a little more than a Blade, but certainly not for everyone, I have a 5m and it's super fun with a big foot. It's over sized lines make it perfect for climbing dunes and hucking jumps on a landboard or buggy.

IN the states, the level of riding for most is much lower than in Europe, so that kite has a place in the Euro market, U.S. isn't needy of a kite like the Haka.

Easy with Performance = Flow

My buddy Brian has a 9m, the 9m is my favorite size of Haka.

PistolPete - 8-22-2019 at 12:50 PM

Found a 9m Haka to play with, but I have a few questions:

(1)
Handles -or- Bar -or- 2 Line Strap Handles?


(2)
If Handles then:
- Use a strop to save arms?
- Use a QR/Leash to 1 brake line (or risk a hurt a hand/arm)?


(3)
If Bar then:

- 2 Line Bar
--- Brake line unused, remove brake bridle?
--- Could not backstall land
--- Could not reverse launch
--- Add a bar strap with a modern QR
--- Leash to 2-Brake Lines, 1-Brake Line, or 1 Center Line?

- 4 Line Bar (not depower, no throw)
--- Are brake line useless except now...
--- Can backstall land
--- Can reverse launch
--- Add a bar strap with a modern QR
--- Leash to 2-Brake Lines, 1-Brake Line, or 1 Center Line?
BladeBar.jpg - 33kB


- 4 Line Turbo Bar
--- Brake lines help turn quicker, or cause this kite to stall
--- Can backstall
--- Can reverse launch
--- Has a modern QR
--- Leash to cross strap pulls 2-Brake Lines
TurboBar.jpg - 38kB


(4)
If 2 Line Strap Handles
--- Brake line unused, remove brake bridle?
--- Could not backstall land
--- Could not reverse launch
--- Leash to 1 Handle/Center Line?
--- Arms would be very tired too quickly?





The 9m Haka is similar to a 8.5m Blade, so I assume the same/best setup for a Blade would apply?


Seems like in the 2000's jumping on land was a big draw to power kiting and this kite is referenced a lot for jumping and some buggy riding. The big depower kites for jumping were/are more expensive and the used market was more limited back then. 12 years ago Ozone even advertised this 4 line kite as "turning fast on the front lines only." Not a trait touted much today.


(5)
I'm not into land jumping as a sport, water jumping with a twin tip is fun tho. Using as intended as a traction kite, it would be too much kite for landboarding, apparent wind would build too fast/much. Would try in a buggy but testing it would be easy to get overpowered or lifted with this type of large high lift design kite. Thinking I may be safest (less unsafe for this kite?) to try my lightwind surfboard in the water in light winds? Years ago I kited with a lightweight guy who used a Blade on handles (no strop) and a twin tip board in light thermal winds, he went upwind like crazy.


(6)
Any tips from big Blade users or x-users?


Your sarcasm is welcome, like... read the original post title :lol:

B-Roc - 8-22-2019 at 02:14 PM

I have owned Blades and Begos and would say these types of kites should definitely be flown on handles if you want to get the most out of them with a strop/harness if you want to fly for longer periods of time and are comfortable with that setup (I would not use any kind of quick release and I don't think I would hook into a FB if flying on water - which I don't think I'd do on this type of kite if there was any chance of it stalling). I would also say that the kite is definitely suitable for use with a landboard (I use to do that with an 8.5 blade and 7m JOJO).

You may want to look into kite killers if flying on handles.

Ahhh, the days of big blades and moderate winds... those are fond memories of bygone days when kites were affordable and plentiful.

Pablo - 8-22-2019 at 07:25 PM

On the Quick Release thing. I'd never fly hooked in without one. if you run a strop directly to the hook on a harness you will wear it out in no time. A pulley bar is probably the best option but a lot of us run a quick release such as the Wichard and a pulley on the strop. I can be rid of the kite with my full body weight hanging on the QR in a second. Good luck unhooking your strop while the kite is accelerating you sideways. This has saved me from a pretty serious spill a number of times.

Regarding the Blades. I think it's as simple as years ago Flexi put a bunch of time into promoting their freestyle team. All were flying Blades in the early years. They got a reputation as being the "Crazy big air kite". People keep buying them and keeping the reputation going. They are damn good kites and only get better with every new version they bring out. As said above though there are a lot of good companies selling quality kites out there now days.

PistolPete - 8-23-2019 at 04:28 PM

Thanks for the comments. I flew it on handles yesterday in 5+mph and could keep it in the air if I kept it moving. I see how you could buggy or landboard with it in these low winds as it is smooth and produces enough pull in one low sweep across the window. I flew it with very loose brakes and could turn it, even loop it overhead, just on the center lines for steering. Reminded me of when I learned to landboard on a 2 line kite long ago. Gotta decide if I want to keep it on handles for super light wind traction kiting or try hooked with a big bar (and QR) on the water.

Also found an old PKF post which led me to an old website "K48 Internal X-Over" Blade modifications to improve 2 line turning using a bar for kitesurfing. Interesting read with pictures from days of yore:
- https://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2306436
- http://www.k48.com/main.htm
- http://www.k48.com/bladelaunch.htm
- http://www.k48.com/bladeinflatable.htm

:crazy:

I really enjoyed the k48 write up on options for solo landing the 2 line beast :o

Quote:

SOLO LANDING

This is easy, your options are:

1: Lower the kite to the ground on one side and dump it upside down in front of an object and let the bar go or run forward to let the lines go slack. Objects: e.g: Groyne, Sea wall, Rock, low bush. If the kite rolls don't grab the bar or lines again but run for the kite. In light winds hold one line.

2: Lower the kite to the ground on one side and dump it upside down in a no wind zone, e.g behind a high groyne, sea wall etc and then let the lines go slack. If the kite rolls don't grab the bar again but run for the kite.

3: Put the kite in a puddle upside down, e.g on open beach. Run to kite.

4: Put the kite in the shore dump. Don't hold the bar if a wave takes your kite away from you as you will rip the kite. The load on the bridle is finely designed to be spread evenly when in flight. In the water one bridle line will be loaded and consequently damage can occur. I have never lost a blade in surf, they don't seem to want to sink that easily. Cape Verde in 16ft face surf was the closest but that was because the bar sunk and caught on the reef. (Use a floating bar on all kites).