Power Kite Forum

Question about self launching a Venom or PL

Lanbro - 15-4-2009 at 08:06 AM

I can understand laying the kite downwind (tip to tip) to let it fill up but once it is filled why wouldnt you turn it 90 degrees into the wind and side launch it? why keep the kite straight downwind (tip to tip) and then launch it at 45 degrees from your body?

I guess what I am saying is one it is filled and you close the zipper, why not just side launch it like an inflatable?

rudeboysaude - 15-4-2009 at 10:57 AM

Are you talking about taco-ing the kite by anchoring both wingtips upwind? A folded in half type launch? If so, then you could pull the lines on the upper wingtip to release the weight and start the lauch directly downwind. Lauching at a 45 degree when the kite is laid flat weighted at only one wingtip helps to peel the kite off the ground without the line wrapping underneath the kite and launches to the side of the wind window.

If you turned the kite 90 degrees into the wind while it was folded in half in the taco position the wind would most likely push it back to a downwind position pivoting off the wingtip weights that you are using. ARCs aren't a rigid structure so once you open it up and the wind gets to it, it's pretty easy to peel off the ground.

Am I understanding your question or just making it worse?

awindofchange - 15-4-2009 at 11:04 AM

Launching the kite at 90 degrees to the wind would be considered a "Hot Launch" which would put the kite launching directly in the middle of the wind window. This is usually considered the most dangerous way to launch a surf kite and usually results in huge loftings or "superman" style catapult.

Launching the kite at 45 degrees to the wind puts the kite on a projectile towards the edge of the window where it will have the least amount of pull. If you do get dragged during launch the power usually decreases as the kite lunges towards the edge of the window instead of powering up during a hot launch. Also, if you do have an issue during launch it is easy dump the kite into the ground or hit the safety while the kite is only a few feet off the ground where in a hot launch, the kite (and you) is on its way upward in an emergency.

Once you get the technique figured out of launching a Twinskin then it becomes very easy to do and with minimal issues.

In the lighter winds then a Hot Launch is usually not an issue at all and could be the best way to launch. In normal kitesurfing winds (which are much stronger) then a side launch would be the best and usually the safest way to do it.

Hope that helps.

macboy - 15-4-2009 at 11:48 AM

Yup - what Angus said. Light winds - hot launches OK but you really don't want to fly these things on those winds anyway - not nearly as much fun....frustrating actually since you NEED the kite to be near full inflation before it'll make it's way to the zenith for you. Plus in these light winds the kite will be prone to luffing, dropping back in the window and either powering up or worse - inverting and flying inside out.

I suspect the moment you try a hot launch in some firm winds you'll gain a full understanding. I know I did and since I wasn't hooked in and the leash attaches to the chickenloop when it yanked out of my hands I was on a mad dash in foot deep snow to catch it. I've since learned the value of a good preinflation and a very controlled self launch as per recommendations.

macboy - 15-4-2009 at 11:49 AM

....just wanted to add that when the wind is right and the textbook launch peels the kite off the ground it's quite a neat sight to see. Like a Cobra coming out of a basket for a snake charmer.

f0rgiv3n - 15-4-2009 at 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by macboy
it yanked out of my hands I was on a mad dash in foot deep snow to catch it. I've since learned the value of a good preinflation and a very controlled self launch as per recommendations.


That woulda been a fun sight to see :D I only say that cuz I have done the same "mad dash", but not in foot deep snow! :wee:

rudeboysaude - 15-4-2009 at 12:10 PM

Are you guys lauching directly down wind like you would an open cell foil? With the trailing edge weighted down and the leading edge up? I've taco launched directly down wind lots of times. It set the kite up to be pointed to fly the edge of the wind window. No hot launch. I've even lauched an ARC off an ice screw. Hooked it in and walked down to the kite and threw it in the air. Walk back when you're ready and take off. That's why I love Twinskins.

When Peter Lynn started talking about single line arcs I got excited. He mentions zero pull reeling out the kite on one line. How sweet would it be to walk out into the water with your ARC above you like a balloon, reel it up into the air till your bar lines were taught and take off on your board. Wanna land? Reel it back in with that single line. I hope we see more of his findings on the www.peterlynnhimself.com because I'm gonna try it!

And here if you missed it:
http://www.peterlynnkites.co.nz/news/0812news.htm

PHREERIDER - 15-4-2009 at 12:56 PM

"like a cobra" the man said ...very nice!


the regular launch is a semi side launch.

i consider it a side launch though moving it around....you are asking for a puncture

it is already on the side any way. its relative to the end point of the bar.

Lanbro - 15-4-2009 at 02:15 PM

The confusing point seems to be that when the PL kite launches, the kite is parallel to the wind by being straight downwind. In contrast a LEI's leading edge is facing the wind, when launching at the side of the wind window...so why would u not turn the pl leading edge facilng the wind and launch it 90 degrees like an LEI??

carltb - 15-4-2009 at 02:44 PM

the big differance from an lei to an arc is, the lei is ridgid and can be held in any position and wont loose its shape, whereas an arc is held in shape by air pressure and internal straps. if you hold an lei in the centre as you do on a launch it will allow the air to flow over it, if you tried this with an arc, both tips would just come together and the kite would collapse. if you want proof of this just, instead of trying it on a launch, try it on a landing. bring the arc to the edge of the window just like an lei then get your helper to land it like an lei.
so to sum up. lei ridgid. arc flexible. it needs the air pressure and internal straps to hold its shape.

carltb - 15-4-2009 at 03:21 PM

http://www.vimeo.com/1050184

i made this vid a while back to help people with their arcs

geojones - 15-4-2009 at 04:52 PM

thank you,carltb--im getting a 17m bomba and ive never flown these type kites,so your video is a huge help to me--don:singing:

macboy - 15-4-2009 at 10:12 PM

Carl's video shows the "textbook launch". Fantastic and such a neat sight to see.....

If you really think about what happens at the kite during the launch the LE isn't 90 degrees to the wind. Unless I'm doing it wrong, when it's time to launch you pull on the downwind front line and the hope is that this causes the LE of that downwind spar to flop over to the top of the kite, catch the wind and peel the kite off the ground. Because you are standing at a 45 degree angle to the wind, this spar rotates the LE around by 45 degrees, to face into the wind near the edge of the window. So yes, it's perpendicular while the kite is lying there but as soon as you pull that line it's 45 degrees and pointed to the edge.

I've hot launched from straight downwind (for a variety of reasons, only a few being intentional:lol:) but to me a hot launch of an arc is with the kite fully inflated, backstalled sitting on it's TE, not weighted down like I'd do with the Access. Don't know if you could do that but can't say I've tried either. Are you suggesting maybe to launch like a Flysurfer and let it fill through the intakes? It might be possible if you could yard in enough front line and keep things form bowtieing. Then again maybe not. Any reason not to try?

Kamikuza - 16-4-2009 at 12:09 AM

Sorry to be OT but ... how would you steer a single line kite?

rudeboysaude - 16-4-2009 at 07:01 AM

You couldn't. Here's one of the pics of a Scorpion SLARC.



If I could figure it out, I'd use it like a fifth line. A little bit longer then my other 4 lines. Once you reeled the kite up to full height the bar lines would be taught and you could steer.