Power Kite Forum

Verry New to this!

Foca - 25-7-2008 at 11:41 AM

Hello,

i'm verry new to this, i just bought a Pansh ACE 5.0
Can anyone tell me what i need to buy more now to start kite jumping :) ... Any tips and hints are welcome as well... Thx alot! Hope to enjoy here ...

_____ - 25-7-2008 at 12:32 PM

Thats a pretty beefy kite to begin with. Is this your first power kite?

Im still new too but have recently bought a 5m Ace too. First thing you NEED to get are kite killers and a stake to hold it down while setting up.

furbowski - 25-7-2008 at 12:49 PM

many of us on the forum know the ace well, in terms of fun / risk factor for the dollar it's the best value in a new kite on the market... (IMHO ;-))

A couple threads to get you started....

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=6711

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=1985

be safe! do you know what a superman is? It's what you do when you don't know how to fly a kite and try to jump with it, often results in a trip to the hospital. Do yourself a favor, search youtube for "kite superman" b4 you fly...

and if you try to fly in more than 10-15 mph of wind, you will be putting yourself at serious risk...

Not trying to be nasty or trollish here, believe me! This is one of the friendliest kite forums on the web, but as a newbie wanting to jump you are at SERIOUS risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have respect for the wind, you're about to start one of the finest journeys to fun it's possible to have on this earth!

cheers, and please do believe my intentions (and those of most others on this forum, who will def agree with me...) are friendly and well meant.

take care....

furbo

Bladerunner - 25-7-2008 at 03:59 PM

Sorry to poop on your parade but I think you bought more kite than you want as a beginer. Spend some time looking through past threads and you will see plenty of tales of concussions and broken bones from people who bought too big a kite to start . They all had the same misguided logic that you have. I even know of folks who gave up on the sport because they got spanked so bad using a 5m to learn. You have a good kite just the WRONG KITE for learning. It sucks to here this I'm sure.

So ........ expect that for your 1st few times out the kite will control YOU. Your goal is for you to control the kite. Only take it out in VERY LOW winds at 1st. Try and keep movements small and try to keep in control of the kite rather than flying it all over the place at 1st. Just take it to Zenith ( above your head ) and try to keep it sitting calm up there. Start flying TINY figure 8s and stay out of the power zone. Only after you feel like you can control the flight do you want to start making bigger swoops through the power zone.

Trust me on that ! If you try and fly the heck out of it at 1st you will just get beat up and not really be learning anything. I can tell you are the type of person who won't be patient about the whole keeping it calm and making VERY SMALL movements at 1st but diving it and getting yanked will only get you busted up. You won't learn anything of value doing it.

Gear you MUST have to go out :
I CLUE of how to fly, the wind window and such
A kite stake ( tent peg or something ) to hold your kite down.
A helmet !!!!!!!!!

Good stuff to have:
Kite killers
Knee and elbow pads
Gloves
weights for the kite
Medical coverage

Please don't shy away because we aren't telling you what you want to hear. Folks on here will help you out any way they can. Even if that means telling you the sad truth !
We are on your side !
Have fun and be safe !!!

furbowski - 25-7-2008 at 04:40 PM

what BR said....

esp. the last bit about being on your side!

the ace was my first kite, spent two months learning the wind window inside out with a snapshot 1.4 (just big enough to give me a lovely fingertip massage in good winds...) b4 my second flight....

I'm 40, with 50K miles of offshore sailing / racing experience and 12 full time years in the outdoor adventure industry under my belt, and I've seen a few folks hurt in my time, all that helped me be patient.

WELDNGOD - 25-7-2008 at 05:08 PM

more importantly "do you have medical insurance?" "short term disability insurance?" "anybody depending on you for their care and support?" cause you bought something that may just show you the inside of your leg!If this is your first kite stop , go buy a kite 1/2 that size and go get your azz handed to you ,then when you can fly that with no probs ,then you will be ready for that kite. It's kind of like racing a top fuel rail when you don't even have a learners permit:puzzled:

WELDNGOD - 25-7-2008 at 05:12 PM

and somebody with a celly yo' 911 fo sho'!

_____ - 25-7-2008 at 05:12 PM

And all this advice is just about the kite. Nobody has really gotten into the jumping part of power kiting.

WELDNGOD - 25-7-2008 at 05:18 PM

well it won't be jumping as much as getting bodyslammed by the almighty.

furbowski - 25-7-2008 at 06:19 PM

If he is willing to do his research, there's plenty of info to be found on the forum, this and others. a "kite jumping how-to" google search will dig up lots as well.

coming on the forum and asking how to jump after buying a beast for a first kite is a safety red flag. I get the feeling we might come across as some kinda maui local only willing to talk to somebody who shows a little respect and willing to pay some dues first, but imagine how we would feel if we told him to just send it up and across the power zone in fifteen knots of wind while running the other way and his next post is from the hospital with a broken back....

ah well, time for me to go fly a kite rather than sit in front of my lappie trying to hit 3000 on that kite jumper game while waiting for threads to hijack....

My first flight with the ace was in winds so light i couldn't get the thing off the ground, i was so worried about what it would do to me after researching my a$$ off all over the net, i looked like an idiot running about dragging my pile of ripstop behind me....

@ foca: don't let us scare you off, this is truly one of the finest sports out there!

kitemaker4 - 25-7-2008 at 07:40 PM

Is there someone in your area that can help you? Make sure you do not go out by yourself. Always have a kite buddy. A smaller kite to learn on would be wise.

Susan (npw goddess)

BeamerBob - 25-7-2008 at 07:41 PM

Here is a post about a guy that bought an Ace 6m from me and oversold his abilities. After that he did 3 things I told him to wait months to try . Problem is he only waited about 3 hours and did all three things at the same time. As a matter of fact, he didn't do ANY of the things suggested above. This could be you.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5587&pa...

furbowski - 25-7-2008 at 07:50 PM

yeah, i remember that thread.

did you ever hear from him again?

DAKITEZ - 25-7-2008 at 07:52 PM

you guys scared me :smilegrin:

no doubt post where your located and let us get someone in your area to help you .. I hope I didn't sell you the kite :puzzled: If I did I messed up and I'm sorry. I'll take it back for sure.

BeamerBob - 25-7-2008 at 08:04 PM

I haven't talked to Dustin since I caught him at a bad time that day in the hospital. whew! I think I still have his number. I should check in on him and bring some closure to this. Here is a link to a post I posted after finding out this happened to him.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5550&pa...

WELDNGOD - 25-7-2008 at 10:05 PM

Hey Foca ,are you still w/us. sorry ,but you broke an unwritten law . thou shalt not start w/kite larger than 3 meters! serious injury is highly likely!

Foca - 26-7-2008 at 03:41 AM

Hehe, i'm watching forums, video's everething that's possible, hmmz they are shipping my ace 5.0 already ... but here in belgium the wind is paradise, i feel and understand the wind, we will see when it arrives, still got 2 weeks to prepare. Anyway ... so i need a kind of bar, can anyone give me links what you mean with it, i'll also buy a harnas (belt) ... Any good suggestions witch ? Thanks already for this plenty of info, verry nice forum! <3

BeamerBob - 26-7-2008 at 04:09 AM

You don't want to hook into your 5m lifty kite with a harness for months until you are very comfortable handling the kite in a wide variety of conditions. Also, I don't think the ace will like being on a bar very much. It doesn't like much brake tension, but doesn't mind you touching some brakes to help you turn with enough wind. I never tried one but have owned or flown 3 different sizes of Aces including your 5m.

WELDNGOD - 26-7-2008 at 05:21 AM

yeah ,they don't like brakes at all.But man they sure like to GO!!!!:thumbup: I have been snatched harder by my 2.0 ACE than any other kite in my bag. watch it, a touch too much with that beast ,and you'll get bit.

Foca - 26-7-2008 at 09:20 AM

So kite killers + 4 line handles are enough ... (Like here) ??? :)

i also saw BR wrote down, you need a tent peg to keep your kite down, maby stupid question but how to attach it to the kite ? :) wanna now 100% what to do ... Thx

furbowski - 26-7-2008 at 10:50 AM

Foca...

good to hear from you again.

also good to hear that you are belgian. i always wanted to know, who is crazier, a frenchman or a belgian?

kite killers don't do that much to protect you, but they do have a lot to do with protecting other people down wind of your kite as well as your kite itself if you are flying near trees and telephone poles. getting your kite high in a tree is no fun. did you see this thread? http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=6802

BR's post above is a full list of safety equipment. One thing he didn't mention is the ground you will be flying on. Soft sand on a beach is far safer than flying on a grassy field, and concrete / gravel with a big kite like this is just plain dangerous. Also the quality of the wind, a nice gentle smooth breeze blowing in off the ocean is far better than a gusty wind inland.

protecting yourself is the priority. Knees, elbows, butt, and neck. Mountain bike or skateboard pads.

The 5m (assuming you are around 70-80 kilos or more) is not really super dangerous until the wind hits 12 or 15 mph, enough to make a flag a little noisy as it flies off a flag pole or enough to make most of the branches on a small tree move around a just a little bit.

If the flag is making a lot of noise and the whole tree is moving in the wind then it is really super dangerous!

8-10 mph will pull you around a lot, on soft sand or heavy thick grass not a big problem. Don't wear shorts!

6-8 mph is OK, you will have a full wind window and will still get dragged around a bit.

4-6 mph your wind window starts to close down or get smaller. You'll begin to wonder what all the people on this forum are so worried about.

2-4 mph it can be hard to get the kite into the air and you will have to walk backwards at times to keep the kite in the air.

In 20-25 mph of wind, even people with really good skills, like hundred of hours of flying time, will find it hard to fly the kite carefully enough to avoid being pulled off the ground, and most of those folks will have changed to a smaller kite by then.

I'd also want to add that it's the strong wind gusts that hurt people, not the wind you feel most of the time and thinks it's maybe OK to fly in. You may feel that you are safe with the kite above your head at zenith, but the gusts can still lift you right up off the ground, and then you are out of control, and you are playing russian roulette with your chances of injury, it is only a matter of time (like minutes at most) b4 you are on the ground with body bruises, broken bones, broken ribs poking into your lungs, or a broken back and a life in a wheelchair.

The other important safety thing is having somebody around to call the ambulance when (not if....) you get hurt. Susan's brief post above is very important. Have a friend to help you out. Somebody big and fat with strong arms to help hold you in place is good. I hear there's the odd belgian beer drinker who's like that....

If you're doing your research and you're determined you want to give it a go, then go for it. You're belgian, after all, if if you are anything like the french you'd hate being told to be careful, but you won't come after anybody with lawyers if you get yourself in the hospital.

Nobody depends on you for their livelihood? If you get hurt, you won't be sitting at home with a loved one wondering how to pay for the next meal and listening to your kids complain about being hungry?

The big problem with the Ace is that it is not a stable kite of the sort that is best to learn on. It's very cheap, and the Chinese will sell it to anybody with money. It will not just sit above your head with a little input, it likes to be flown around a lot. If you are just starting out, this can be difficult to deal with. Also, the Ace likes to stall out above your head, then fall down deep into the wind window before it powers up again, which can be very difficult to deal with if you don't know how to immediately fly it back out towards the edges of the wind window. And the Ace is not stable at the edges of the wind window, you need to turn it before you get too close to the edge, so it makes it hard to understand exactly where the edges of your flyable area are. If you have a good onshore smooth beach breeze, this is much less of a problem. Inland, you may find it very frustrating.

Another big problem with the Ace is that they are rarely ready to fly as they come from the factory. The brake lines are usually too tight, and it can be unclear what to attach to what. But the set-up information is out there, and you are doing your research, so good.

the biggest problem people have flying any four-line kite for the first time is understanding when and how they are using the brakes. The brakes are a very good way to turn the Ace, it is very sensitive on the brakes. This is great if you know what you are doing, but very confusing, frustrating, and potentially dangerous if you do not. I've tried to teach about a dozen newbies how to fly my Ace, and only about half were able to understand and use the brakes (with constant hands-on input from me) after half an hour of flying, and that was only in the good winds. In gusty inland breezes, impossible.

One of the things I like about flying kites is the way i keep learning, and the learning curve seems to stretch right up into the sky with no plateau in sight! Very nice. But the Ace has a steeper learning curve than nearly any kite out there. An example of a kite with a much less steep learning curve is the Beamer 3m from HQ kites, with the 3m legend being similar, but not quite as stable, however much better than the Ace.

The biggest risk, really, is impatience. Your wanting to say you want to jump right away is very worrying! If you can be patient, not fly when the winds are strong and gusty and so on, you'll be in much better shape.

enough, I can write about this stuff forever when it's raining outside!

A donf! Go for it! Best of luck and fortune to you as well, you'll need it!

Let us know how you get on, eh?

furbs

Bladerunner - 26-7-2008 at 11:05 AM

You should get the lines and handles with the kite if it's coming from pansh?

Those things that go on your wrists are kite killers and they DON'T come with the kite. You will want / need them so when you let go of the kite it will stay with you and just back down. GET A SET FOR SURE !!!!!
Also get a helmet. Concussions are one of the #1 injuries and MANY of those folks had helmets on :wow:
The " kite stake " is a peg that you hook the handles ( at the back. brake end ) to. With the back of the handles pegged down your kite will sit on the ground. Some weights on the back edge of the kite hold it steady when leaving the kite to rest.

Go to Flexifoil or Ozone and downlad the manual for a standard ( non adjustable ) fixed bridle kite. Pansh doesn't send a manual but the basics are the same. The manual will show you how to hook it up and give other important info.

A harness is great once you have total control but that won't be for a while with that kite as a trainer. I think you are slightly confused between fixed bridle kites and depower kites ( with a bar ) ? Check out the difference when visiting Flexi and Ozones sites.

Asking questions is NEVER stupid !!!!! We all want you to ask all the questions you need to so you can go about this the fun and safe way. We all had those questions not too long ago. Collectively we usually have a good answer !





Quote:
Originally posted by Foca
So kite killers + 4 line handles are enough ... (Like here) ??? :)

i also saw BR wrote down, you need a tent peg to keep your kite down, maby stupid question but how to attach it to the kite ? :) wanna now 100% what to do ... Thx

Foca - 26-7-2008 at 11:59 AM

k cool, thx, i'll check out the manual's and so. Yes i bought from Pansh. Conclussion: I need to get Helmet, Knees, elbows protection, and i should buy kite killers as well. (does every set works on my Ace 5.0) ?

Quote:

You should get the lines and handles with the kite if it's coming from pansh?


Do i understand that these are fine and "consumable" for a beginner as me ? :)

Also can anyone give me a good link or explanation what "Wind Window" means, i clearly understand but not that good yet ...

Great Evening, and yes Belgium Bear is Best in world!

acampbell - 26-7-2008 at 12:38 PM

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/WindWindow.html
http://www.coastalwindsports.com/TutorialMenu.Html

Yes, any set of kite killers will work with the Pansh. Good idea.

Foca - 26-7-2008 at 01:22 PM

Thx acampbell, verry nice guide! the manual at flexifoil is great as well :)

Bladerunner - 26-7-2008 at 01:38 PM

Pansh's handles and lines are not top of the line but they will serve you fine to get going.

Be sure and check the lines on a regular basis to make sure they are all equal length. Sometimes they aren't exact at 1st and then they stretch. You can make up the difference by moving the knots at the handle or bridle.

www.kitesurfingshcool.org is also a good site for beginer info.

KiteProject - 26-7-2008 at 02:27 PM

Foca,

Invest in a wind meter. Ask an ACE owner about the appropriate wind speed for that kite and your weight. Use the wind meter to guage the the right wind condition to fly your Ace in. Wind meters are also a safety equipment.

Good luck.

_____ - 26-7-2008 at 03:15 PM

I flew my Ace yesterday at the beach for the first time in winds where my 3m wouldnt get up, about 3-5 mph and was getting some good scuds in :D Plenty of power even in that wind range but was still controlable for me to handle. I have flow the kite inland in a little higher wind 5-7mph and it behaved like crap, so clean consistant wind is very helpful for an Ace. Even in the 3-5mph wind you could feel how much lift that kite has. I actually floated about 10', about 2' off the ground yesterday. In low, consistant wind, the 5m seems to glide right through the air. It was very smooth and pretty slow aslong as I keept it up in the window. Once I got lower the speed and pull was very noticable. I think you may be ok to start on an 5m Ace but you NEED to keep it in very very low winds. Im still new to this sport too but I have flow my 3m plenty of times to know what I was getting into yesterday.

Like evryone above me has said, ask all the questions you want, all the regular posters on here are very friendly and always willing to help :)

WELDNGOD - 26-7-2008 at 03:26 PM

we had great wind at the beach today 15-18,would have been cool to see a bigger ACE on the beach. I was flyin the 2.5 ACE today,damn those kites are fast.And they fly great on my flexi handles and lineset.I.m gonna get either a 3.5 ACE or a 4.5 ACE as soon as they come out. That might be after I get one of those limited edition racekites first!

harddrive8 - 26-7-2008 at 08:51 PM

I don't have a 5m but I do have a 6m Ace. It really has a lot more power than what I would have wanted to learn on. My first power kite was a 3m HQ Beamer. It really was a GREAT kite to learn on, and introduced the sport and methods needed very well. The Ace kites are very different however. While they are a lot of fun after you get experience, it is a little difficult to try to learn on. It's really a kite for experienced fliers because of the way it needs to be flown to keep it going, as well as not to get overpowered. Some of the smaller beginner kites may seem mediocre compared to the Ace kites, but they are a lot more forgiving than the Ace.

I'm not trying to discourage you from the Ace as I believe they are great kites, especially if you are on a budget! However, they are a little tricky to try to learn on and could easily get beginners discouraged because of unexpected results. Learning on kites larger than 4m really throws a lot more on the table to have to figure out and deal with than most beginners can handle. If you choose to still let the 5m Ace be your learning kite, PLEASE be careful with it. It is a kite that will provide for jumping -- given time and experience. I can't stress enough how important it is to take it slow and don't get to aggressive with it before your ready. Small steps will provide better results and keep you safe.

If you listen to the advise of those who have posted, you will enjoy the sport a lot more. From everything that I've ready from everyone here, they are a great group that are willing to help whenever they can. They are willing to answer any questions they can and do it in a timely manner.

Have fun and fly safe!

Foca - 1-8-2008 at 07:20 AM

Hmmz i'm still waiting on my kite:

this is the things TnT gives me:

29 jul 2008 07:00 Liege Euro Hub Held Customs Awaiting Correct Documents. Follow Up Underway.

is that a problem or normal way of going ?
My safety gear arrived home already, bought some kite killers, helmet and knee, ellbow protectors. Realy can't wait to learn my kite flying ...

DAKITEZ - 1-8-2008 at 08:39 AM

sounds like you got stuck in customs. I had a order from pansh get stuck in customs and it took a week to clear it. I hope it doesn't take that long for you. good luck.

Foca - 1-8-2008 at 12:07 PM

Bah i got some problems with the shipping to belgium
The peeps from Panshkite will send another kite now, so i will have 2 kites soon what is positive news then.

Sheduled in 5 days : First kite action!

Kitesurfing seems pretty fun as well, but it's wisefull to start with kite traction on land first i suggest ?

Great summer to all, here it's raining like hell :(

Greetz :singing:

Foca - 20-8-2008 at 12:40 PM

Wohoow my kite (pansh 5.0m) arrived,
It's realy great, nice packed, i love the handle's and how the kite works.
But, today i went flying over here in belgium in the hills, the wind was good enough to fly him,
i could control it like max. 2min, or i was pulled away. I was constantly grinding "my ass" on the grass.

Conclusion: I bought my kite to big.
Question: I considering buying a smaller one as well, but now i want to get realy good informed, i think buying a 2.5m or a 3m.
Pansh again ? or are there bether brands ... i realy need some help now, i want a smaller kite to get some experiance with it.

Thx already, and i realy <3 Kiting already! Whooowoo

acampbell - 20-8-2008 at 01:09 PM

Yeah, 5m is a lot to start with. Most will suggest 3 sq. meters to start. You won't grow out of it as later on it will just be your high winds kite. While nothing is as inexspensive as the Pansh the HQ Beamer III 3m is a good bit of kite for the money and comes complete with everything you need and good instructions. Probably the most often recommended for first- timers.
Other choices are Flexifoil Sting, Peter Lynn Pepper II, PDK Buster

Foca - 20-8-2008 at 01:59 PM

3m so ? it won't blow me away at start like my 5m right ? :D thx for info, yes, i like pansh kite's they are not that expensive and are from good quality.

sorry for my bad english btw :) WTB more kite suggestions please

f0rgiv3n - 20-8-2008 at 02:12 PM

My brother has the legend 3m from pansh and it's a great kite, i compared it to my beamer III 3m and I can barely tell the difference. It could be my inexperience, but it feels as though it pulls a bit harder too :) . Good kites my friend, i'm definitely impressed with pansh! :D

Bladerunner - 20-8-2008 at 04:11 PM

I think you need to figure out what you want to do with your kites ! Believe me when I tell you that kiting only comes to life once you get moving on some kind of ride. Just flying and jumping is fun but it is just a taste of the real fun ! The type of kites you buy will depend on what you ride soon.

You definately want a smaller kite to speed up / safen up the learning curve. I was pretty impressed with the 2m ace ? Very cool looking in all black ! Seeing that you already have one ace another makes some sense ?

Foca - 21-8-2008 at 12:36 AM

I like the ace's indeed, 5m is realy a "beast" i found out yesterday :) I bought a 2.5m Ace, i like the ace his power and Pansh are still the best on $$. To bad it isn't a black one :D but yellow-blue is nice as well :D

Thx for info.

Foca - 27-8-2008 at 11:54 AM

i tested my 2.5m out today, it's realy nice ... but i can't find out yet how to jump and sutch ... i'm practising a week now, and it realy works out already, i hope to start boarding soon, is it possible with a 2.5m ? Greetz foca ... anyone got good jump-learn-site or movie please ?

furbowski - 27-8-2008 at 12:23 PM

a search found this thread:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=6209

be warned on a couple of things: first the 5m Ace is bad on the edges of the wind window and can dump you badly while trying to jump, and second when you have enough power to jump with the 2.5 m you will find it very difficult to control the kite because it will be going too fast... Some good stories on this thread:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=6467

you're belgian and therefore crazy... be careful!!!