Power Kite Forum

Keep or eliminate rank system?

pkf - 5-26-2008 at 12:39 AM

Recently a concern has arisen that our rank system may mislead readers into believing that a higher rank equates to a higher knowledge of kites and kite sports.

Post ranking is a very common feature on the majority of web forums and simply assigns a title and number of stars to a member (displayed below the member's name in each post) based on the number of posts made. That may not be known by all our membership making this a valid concern. Therefore, we'd like to ask for feedback whether we should modify or eliminate the ranks.

Please cast your vote in the poll above. If you choose 'Keep ranks but change titles', post your suggestions to this thread.

Here is our current rank titles:

Tandem Passenger = 1+
Short Reacher = 10+
Long Reacher = 50+
2 Wheeler = 100+
Freestyler = 250+
Kite Traction Freak = 500+
Kite Traction Know-It-All = 1000+
Kite Traction Guru = 1500+

Thanks for the feedback!

NPWfever - 5-26-2008 at 12:51 AM

I would like to see it climb above guru though? God know's I'll make it by the end of my 6 months......but yeah, like maybe become an "adminstrator" or something, or like just a higher level.

B-Roc - 5-26-2008 at 04:53 AM

I don't think a ranking system is necessary though I do like the post counter and the registered date just to give some idea of who the poster is and their activity level.

dylanj423 - 5-26-2008 at 06:52 AM

I like the rank system, and the corresponding titles. As a newer member,, and someone that has bought kites in the for sale forum, I like knowing who has been around for a while.

dylanj423 - 5-26-2008 at 07:05 AM

If you want some ideas on new titles, here you go, here's my 2 cents...

1+ Noob
10+ Kite Collector
50+ Static Flyer
100+ Kite Jumper
250+ Freestyler
500+ Kite Freak
1000+ Senior Kiter
1500+ Jedi Flyer
2000+ Member Of The Board
3000+ KEO

Ranking System

bbrex - 5-26-2008 at 10:12 AM

I agree with B-Roc. The ranking system can be quite deceiving. It would be nice to have your registered date though.

It is very misleading, for example look at one of the responses from above. It is the perfect example of the misuse of this system.

Some people may say if you had any common sense you would not use some of the advice you read, but as all of us know, some people are not born with any common sense what so ever. Some people are just so gung-ho that they just don't get it.

I don't think it is good for the public awareness of our sport. If for instance some newbe uses the ranking system as a tool exclusively, say from a Kite Traction Know-It-All or a Kite Traction Guru, they could possibly be mislead. Numbers of posts necessarily does not make an experienced traction kiter, quality is definately better than quantity in the case.

Thanks for taking time to address this issue.

Brad Rex

dgkid78 - 5-26-2008 at 10:25 AM

I gotta admit when i first joined i was confused by the ranking system. I just look at what people own for gear and thats helps me understand more about who's a noob <---me) and whos got some experience by there quiver . I just think why would a noob own 25 kites and most being LEI and Twinskins and open cell foils? especially if they have Ozones and Flexifoils and Peter Lynns . Then you look at someone like me and i only got 2 kites (So Ashamed but funds are low)...... it kinda makes sense to me.

nhlrule56 - 5-26-2008 at 11:30 AM

IMHO, the ranking system is a little misleading as well as the number of posts. There are a number of posts that are clearly people trying to get to the next level of ranking. There is not an easy answer to this issue either. You can have a guy that has been flying for years and has just started following the PKF and has a recent registration date. So that is not an indicator of experience. Nor does the number of kites in their quiver make them more experienced that the next. The reader still has to read the posts and exercise some common sense. There is a lot to learn from the readers of this forum.

dgkid78 - 5-26-2008 at 01:03 PM

Name 1 noob who has 10 Power kites...I would love to chat with them and find out why they would dump so much money on a sport they don't even know they are addicted to yet? IMHO if you own 10 different power kites and willing to spend that much money on power kites. Then you have some clue of how the wind works and know which kite to take out for the specific conditions. I personally have never seen someone put a post on here asking "How do i jump?" or "Do I need a Harness for a fixed bridle for jumping?" meanwhile there signature states they own 10 kites. I consider myself a noob because I only started this sport 6months ago. and just got into depower and ATB. :tumble:

pkf - 5-26-2008 at 01:30 PM

In my opinion, most of the ranks are innocuous (Long Reacher, etc.) and do not imply any level of expertise. I wonder if it would be sufficient to change the highest 2 ranks (Kite Traction Know-It-All, Kite Traction Guru) to something else. Comments?

nhlrule56 - 5-26-2008 at 04:50 PM

dgkid, I think you are missing my point. Neither ranking, posts, registered date, or quiver size denotes the type of flier you are or your experience level. I also believe even if you have been flying for years you can still learn something from a less experienced flier.

There have been plenty of posts inquiring about jumping techniques, as well as some good links to YouTube vid's with jumping assistance. Have you seen this thread? http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5242

If you have questions regarding a harness for jumping w/fixed bridle, start a thread. You'll get some great feedback from the many skilled people that follow these threads.

Take care and fly safe - G

dgkid78 - 5-26-2008 at 05:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nhlrule56
dgkid, I think you are missing my point. Neither ranking, posts, registered date, or quiver size denotes the type of flier you are or your experience level. I also believe even if you have been flying for years you can still learn something from a less experienced flier.

There have been plenty of posts inquiring about jumping techniques, as well as some good links to YouTube vid's with jumping assistance. Have you seen this thread? http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5242

If you have questions regarding a harness for jumping w/fixed bridle, start a thread. You'll get some great feedback from the many skilled people that follow these threads.

Take care and fly safe - G


Sigh

NPWfever - 5-26-2008 at 05:51 PM

NOOOOO Don't take the ranks away!!! Getting to guru is gonna be the only thing keeping me going for these next few months!! May I suggest a disclaimer in the terms and agreements that states the rankings are no indicator of experience? Or ranks that don't suggest a large knowledge base, or experience, just something that shows a higher level of posts?

BeamerBob - 5-27-2008 at 05:33 AM

This might be hard to set up and/or administer but what about us ranking each other. If you repeatedly get good advice from someone and day in and day out, they seem to be giving level headed advice, you could give them a ranking bump. On the other hand, if you allow users to give negative feedback for posters that are repeatedly grouchy (not mentioning any names) and seemingly always in opposition to others on the forum, it could both help curb that behavior but also (a negative perhaps) possibly discourage them from posting altogether. I don't propose this be the solution to our dilemma but rather the beginning of discussion to find a good solution.

acampbell - 5-27-2008 at 06:05 AM

I think any questionable advice offered here gets vetted pretty quickly by what is generally fair and sportsman-like debate.
If people understand what drives the ranking system, then no harm, no foul, but people padding posts to chase ranking levels is a waste of bandwidth.

dylanj423 - 5-27-2008 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BeamerBob
If you repeatedly get good advice from someone and day in and day out, they seem to be giving level headed advice, you could give them a ranking bump. On the other hand, if you allow users to give negative feedback for posters that are repeatedly grouchy (not mentioning any names) and seemingly always in opposition to others on the forum, it could both help curb that behavior but also (a negative perhaps) possibly discourage them from posting altogether.


Like on ebay, where the users of the site rate each other, maybe. Thats a good idea. Also on craigslist forums, you can rate postings with a scale of -5 to +5.

I like this idea

awindofchange - 5-27-2008 at 12:15 PM

I have to agree that the ranking system does mislead some of the people who get on the forum and lurk to get info. Coming from someone who has made it to "Kite -Guru" the person who is not familiar with the ranking system may value their advice heavier than someone who maybe has more experience and better suggestions but may only be ranked as a "Short-reacher". I also get frustrated with people who are posting just to increase their ranking. It is a waste of bandwidth and also extends the threads to where they are so long that the valuable information is lost in pages of smiley's and other useless posts.

Just my opinion is all.

NPWfever - 5-27-2008 at 12:31 PM

I do like the rank eachother idea, the PG forum I'm on has that as well, but nobody really uses it, im afraid it would just sit unused. :alien::yes::spin::bisou::yes::alien::bisou::bisou::bird::smilegrin::sniff::ticking::mad::(:!::!::!::!:;-);-):alien::alien:

(Srry awindofchange, I couldn't help it)

burritobandit - 5-27-2008 at 12:44 PM

I agree that being able to rank the quality/helpfulness of posts with a plus or minus, then having that rank add or subtract to the poster's rank would be cool.

http://www.esreality.com/ is a video gaming website that has that feature built in. If people find comments funny or insightful, they 'plus' it. After a certain amt of plusses, a percentage appears below the post indicate people find the post humorous or insightful. This then adds a '+' or a piece of a +, after the username and you know how 'popular' they are.

Users shouldn't feel compelled to plus or minus every single post out there. Personally, I'd just plus posts that help and/or entertain. Leaving the minus out is an option as well as there may be potential for abuse or whatnot. Instead of minus-ing a user, a poster that disagrees could simply reply with their opinion or correction. At first a lot of posters would seem equal, but eventually the quality posters would end up sticking out with higher percentages.

One thing I've noticed about this forum is that there are or trolls or any forum drama. Everyone here seems eager to help everyone else out. I think this is due to the potential danger of our sport/hobby and nobody wanting anyone else to get hurt. :thumbup:

Btw, I'm not suggesting that lose our postcount, of course. We can leave that in for bragging rights/milestone celebrations.:frog:

kiteNH - 5-27-2008 at 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pkf
In my opinion, most of the ranks are innocuous (Long Reacher, etc.) and do not imply any level of expertise. I wonder if it would be sufficient to change the highest 2 ranks (Kite Traction Know-It-All, Kite Traction Guru) to something else. Comments?


I think I agree with this. Since forum posts have nothing to do with kiting ability and only reflect a persons forum activity why not change the top two to something like "PKF Addict" and "PKF Post-aholic" or something along those lines.

This whole "issue" seems a little silly. All forums that I've seen have these silly titles based on post count and I know I've always recognized that this is a reflection of forum activity and not expertise in the forum subject. Changing the titles will make sure that new users don't think serial posters are appointed experts or anything like that.

Bladerunner - 5-27-2008 at 02:28 PM

I have a little problem with the title " know it all". Just because you have a GOzillion posts doesn't mean you know anything. I'm the perfect example ! I think I still ask as many questions as I do give answers !
I certainly DON'T feel like a know it all. I hope I don't act like one !!! :duh:

pkf - 5-27-2008 at 04:53 PM

I'm heading outta town for a few days. Keep the votes coming and we'll review this issue when I return.

NPWfever - 5-27-2008 at 05:01 PM

I just feel like the rank system keeps some newer members from leaving, I know it kept me on, it was kinda like a game. :cool:

USA_Eli_A - 5-27-2008 at 05:34 PM

uh oh...the moderators away....the cats will play...hehe...

I'd like to see the ranking system stay. It's helpful to see who is who compared to others....for me it seems those who have posted many times are people that might be willing to answer U2U questions in a timely way.

Plus, I like the idea of it being sort of a game, but at the same time, it's nice for me, to see how much I contribute. The titles for the ranking system are funny and very cool....If you don't like being a tandem passenger. PARTICIPATE IN DISCUSSIONS AND YOU'LL SOON BE A FREESTYLER!!!! AND SO ON!

I can understand why some don't like it...SO MAYBE WE COULD HAVE THE OPTION OF SEEING OUR RANKING, OR HIDING IT. So everyone is satisfied!?

maybe?????

NPWfever - 5-27-2008 at 06:00 PM

I like the oponion idea alot!
So if you dont want to see them, just check the dont show box, and then everyone wins! Good idea man! :karate:

bbrex - 5-27-2008 at 07:17 PM

The question is not for the established flier but for the newbe that doesen't know anything, we need to protect against them from getting poor advice from the start from someone who does not have the true experience to give. Once they get some time navigating this forum and getting to know the personalities and their expertise or lack there of; then they can make their own minds up as to who to take advice from. But to give them the possibility of choosing someone from a Kite Traction Know-It-All or Kite Traction Guru such as NPWfever who is one of those who takes advatage of this system and continues to boast about it.

Brad

BeamerBob - 5-27-2008 at 07:42 PM

I think Angus said earlier about less than accurate material being disputed in a friendly way very quickly. This gives the new poster the ability to see many opinions. I have several favorite posters here that I actually look forward to reading their posts. They aren't necessarily in the top five posters either. They routinely give unbiased opinions and even set someone straight if they disagree. Other posters with a higher count might've watered down their effectiveness with dribble. Someone that reads posts here for a little bit picks up on all this pretty quickly. I'm not worried about a newbie lurking here and starting a new sport based on one post a lesser experienced poster makes with an inaccuracy in it.

Sadly, there is the occasional poster with a sour attitude that actually insult other posters by name. The absence of this is what makes this a great forum. The presence of the personal attacks really do take away from the openness regularly shown here. I don't think I've ever participated in another forum that had so few intent on ruining the experience of other participants.

NPWfever - 5-27-2008 at 10:38 PM

When do I boast...?! What because I like the forum, and enjoy sharing my feedback?! So I have alot of posts? I don't go around boasting it!!!!!

pkf - 5-27-2008 at 11:09 PM

There is no way to customize this post rank feature and I think it's nature may not be clear. This is merely a simple system that links a title to a post count. If you've posted 10 to 50 times, for example, the title 'Short Reacher' is displayed below your name. The title changes as you post more... a common forum doodad.

There is no way to change it to an actual peer to peer rank system etc. So we are voting whether to keep these post count ranks or eliminate them.

Regarding the quality of member advice: This is a discussion forum... we as a group and validate each other's comments with our own. If you think someone has given bad advise, offer your own (rather than criticize pls). The value of this forum comes from a range of opinion forming a volume of sound information. We're a community.

Dagon - 5-28-2008 at 03:03 PM

what about stars with no title?

kitemaker4 - 5-28-2008 at 07:00 PM

For someone new to the sport and reading the forum and not knowing who is giving good advice verses bad advice the ranking system is not helpful. As it has been mentioned some post just to have a high rank and that is not the purpose of this forum. This forum is to help, keep everyone safe and to share advice. So I vote to take the rank system away.

Susan (npw goddess)

Sthrasher38 - 5-29-2008 at 03:54 PM

I am netural. Keep it or take it away. makes no difference to me. I will still be here and I will still post questions and answers to the best of my ability. Sorry if no help. The only rank I need is to be a forum member.

USA_Eli_A - 5-30-2008 at 09:31 AM

can I be stuck at 'TRACTION KITE FREAS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-! because I am a traction kite freak....and I freak out if I don't get to kite...and I freak when I can kite....?

Sthrasher38 - 5-30-2008 at 10:04 AM

I like freestyler. If I had to choose.

nhlrule56 - 6-3-2008 at 07:53 PM

Hey Eli - You know if you keep your posts down below the thresh hold that takes you to the next level, you can remain a Kite Traction Freak forever. Sorry, just had to say it. We always enjoy what you have to say though. Keep the posts coming and just accepts whatever title comes next...

WELDNGOD - 6-3-2008 at 08:27 PM

WHAT ABOUT WE JUST ALL ARE EQUAL?FELLOW KITERS TRYIN TO HELP EACH OTHER? WHAT ABOUT THAT? NO RANK NEEDED, JUST A DESIRE TO FLY!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::wow: ( WERE ALL FREAKS! :frog:)

Lobo - 6-4-2008 at 10:22 AM

Well, I'm still a newbie, and I'll tell ya the newbie coming to this forum doesn't even know what all the names mean anyway! Ha! Don't take it all so seriously. It's a great forum with lots of good folks and good information/experience sharing. It's OK like it is, it's sorta "cute". Might just remove the stars.....they kinda imply a lot of "something"? Otherwise, find something else to poll on, and have fun in the wind!!

Lobo :singing:

WELDNGOD - 6-4-2008 at 08:50 PM

well said my brother!:thumbup::thumbup:

dgkid78 - 6-6-2008 at 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lobo
Well, I'm still a newbie, and I'll tell ya the newbie coming to this forum doesn't even know what all the names mean anyway! Ha! Don't take it all so seriously. It's a great forum with lots of good folks and good information/experience sharing. It's OK like it is, it's sorta "cute". Might just remove the stars.....they kinda imply a lot of "something"? Otherwise, find something else to poll on, and have fun in the wind!!

Lobo :singing:






AMEN!!!!!!!

nwsurfwakeskate - 6-8-2008 at 12:06 AM

First of all, I think the ranking system is fun and gives some motivation to participate regularly in the forum. From what I've seen most of the people in this forum are mature enough to know not to abuse the system. most of them probably have better things to do too. like actually go fly a kite maybe?

perhaps some of the higher level names should be changed because of there misleading nature but personally I find it hard to believe that someone could post that many times in this forum without becoming an expert or being banned for spamming the forum.....I mean if someone is constantly talking with people about the sport, they are bound to learn at least a few things from all that conversation. Right? I feel like I have already learned a wealth of knowledge about the sport from this forum and other sources and I've barely broken 50 posts.

finally I think that everybody needs to take a step back and remember that what they read here is no different from any other information posted on the internet and it is ALWAYS at your own risk to choose to believe what you read on the internet.

an example would be. just because something is on wikipedia doesn't mean its a fact or proven. Its just what some other party wrote and you have to make your own assumptions about the quality of the source.

thats just my 2 cents

xxxBUGGYPILOTXXX - 6-10-2008 at 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bbrex
I agree with B-Roc. The ranking system can be quite deceiving. It would be nice to have your registered date though.

It is very misleading, for example look at one of the responses from above. It is the perfect example of the misuse of this system.

Some people may say if you had any common sense you would not use some of the advice you read, but as all of us know, some people are not born with any common sense what so ever. Some people are just so gung-ho that they just don't get it.

I don't think it is good for the public awareness of our sport. If for instance some newbe uses the ranking system as a tool exclusively, say from a Kite Traction Know-It-All or a Kite Traction Guru, they could possibly be mislead. Numbers of posts necessarily does not make an experienced traction kiter, quality is definately better than quantity in the case.

Thanks for taking time to address this issue.

Brad Rex

:thumbup:AMEN to that Brad! & Nice article in the Lafayette Daily advertiser(http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2008... )

You & Susan had some great press on that one, uh but wouldn't have killed yall to drop my name in somewhere :puzzled: even though I've been absent from my old home town buggy grounds for some time :tumble: rolling down the road & chasing the wind:tumble:

pkf - 6-11-2008 at 08:20 PM

The vote is finished. Results show a desire to remove the post rank system. I will attend to this in the next few days.