Power Kite Forum

Gin kite 5 line bar?

Ed Cline - 11-18-2019 at 11:31 AM

Do I need a five line bar to try a kite like this?
What to do with the flagout?


B-Roc - 11-18-2019 at 01:38 PM

I don't have a Shaman but I've owned 4 different generations of their kites and ever since the Eskimo III series their land kites have utilized a very effective 5th line safety so I'm going to say "yes" if you have a Gin foil and it was built after 2008 then you are going to need a 5 line bar or you are going to have to modify the bridle (remove the 5th line) to allow for a backstall safety system.

Windstruck - 11-18-2019 at 02:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline  
Do I need a five line bar to try a kite like this?
What to do with the flagout?



I don't own any Shamans but all of my RaceStars are five line kites with a similar-in-concept 5th line safety system that in some fashion mimics the superb Ozone Re-Ride system. All of these recent 5th line systems "accordion" their kites from the center.

I like this accordion style action but it is hardly a "need to have" setup. More typical 4.5 flag out systems work just fine and have the added advantage of slightly less parasitic drag and not needing to keep a 5th line completely untangled from the other four all the way (or nearly all the way) up to the kite. On the LongStars or RaceStars, for example, you can simple attach the center line to the little loops along the leading edge as you would when packing the kite away not in RTF set up with a bar. If the Shaman kites have something equivalent to Born-Kite storage loops along the leading edge then I'd just secure the 5th line bridle to that loop and forget about it and fly the kite with a 4.5 flag out setup that you already own.

If I ever sell my RaceStars then the recipient (read you Ed) would simply need to attach the 5th line setup to the central yellow loop and forget about it.

Ed Cline - 11-18-2019 at 03:16 PM

Thanks guys. The Peak 3 model came with an accordion safety, and after a lot of discussion I heard from an authority that I'd be better off without it. The option was mine.

If I'm getting that this is a dedicated 5 line kite then an Iced bar wouldn't work at all?
Or is it possible that this used kite in the photo was "upgraded" and could be downgraded?

Steve in this case I think ignoring the 5 th line might leave me with no safety at all.
For now I'm just seeing how I might dip a toe in the water on a hybrid single skin.

Cheddarhead - 11-18-2019 at 04:22 PM

I believe that a bar with FLS (Front line safety) would work fine with these kites. Chris Krug would be a good person to ask. He's had a season testing these kites already.

Feyd - 11-18-2019 at 05:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline  
Thanks guys. The Peak 3 model came with an accordion safety, and after a lot of discussion I heard from an authority that I'd be better off without it. The option was mine.

If I'm getting that this is a dedicated 5 line kite then an Iced bar wouldn't work at all?
Or is it possible that this used kite in the photo was "upgraded" and could be downgraded?

Steve in this case I think ignoring the 5 th line might leave me with no safety at all.
For now I'm just seeing how I might dip a toe in the water on a hybrid single skin.


The Shaman 2 can be flown with either the 5th line Gin version of ReRide or it can be converted to a 4 line FLS flag out. You simply remove the 5th line bridle assembly.

The Gin Iced bar can be used as a 5th line of 4 line/FLS. It is easily converted. I offer our demos with both configurations so the buyer can try both and decide for themselves.

The 5th line on the Peak is more trouble than it's worth. I tend to lean toward 4 line FLS on the Shamans as I'm comfortable with FLS safeties and I like simplicity.

Ed Cline - 11-18-2019 at 06:40 PM

Thank you. The Iced bar looks clean and simple and available used. If I ever deployed my flag line (except to test it) I might think I need the re ride advantage. So far no issue.

I wanted an idea about compatibility before I shop seriously. Mission accomplished.
Thanks to the authority from up north, I had hoped for a word. :D

Wind_dog - 11-18-2019 at 09:17 PM

I have 2 Gin Shaman2 kites. Love em.
Be careful.
Don't try one unless you are ready to convert.
I have flown them on 5 lines and 4 line FLS bars (flysurfer peak bars.)
Both work fine.
4 lines have less drag and less to tangle.
5 lines flag out on removable bridle across the top, not accordian.
Any bar works fine with these beauties.

Wind_dog - 11-18-2019 at 10:50 PM

Hell,
Now that I own and have flown my 6m Shaman2, I'd even consider selling my highly coveted 6m Peak 1!
Yes, the Pink and Black Beauty.
R.

Windstruck - 11-19-2019 at 06:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Wind_dog  
I have 2 Gin Shaman2 kites. Love em.
Be careful.
Don't try one unless you are ready to convert.
I have flown them on 5 lines and 4 line FLS bars (flysurfer peak bars.)
Both work fine.
4 lines have less drag and less to tangle.
5 lines flag out on removable bridle across the top, not accordian.
Any bar works fine with these beauties.


Good intel on where the 5th line is Rick. I had been overly broad with my assumptions about the accordion action. The 5th line bridling on the RaceStars is near the top but down enough from the leading edge to get this action. The Re-Ride system on the Access kites is more or less centered top to bottom if I remember correctly. As the Access is a two sided beast the 5th line bridle sneaks away inside and truly accordions nicely. I'd give the Access an A+ for the accordion action (and importantly the shake out and relaunch without further fiddle). The RaceStar gets a B- but it still works well. In the limited times I've tried the accordion move on the RaceStars I've been mixed on the ability to shake the kite out on the ground and have it relaunch without having to perform some sorting out. I've had better success pulling in the 5th line in a calm situation to crumple up the kite to get it to drop. Less success the one time I used it accidentally when my AQR popped by mistake. That was fun...

B-Roc - 11-19-2019 at 08:11 AM

Gin Iced bars came with a depower line that is covered in tubing. Not sure if they've improved the current version over the original but for those who fly in cold conditions, that became more stiff as the temps became more cold making it was less than ideal for smooth, slippery action. Maybe that's been improved and maybe someone who owns newer versions can comment. I know some snowkiters just cut it off so the rope beneath slid with less friction.

Feyd - 11-19-2019 at 08:37 AM

There is no coating on the current Iced bars. An image of the bar can be seen on my Shaman 2 page.

https://www.hardwaterkiter.com/store/p79/Gin_Shaman_2.html

tomdiving - 11-19-2019 at 10:11 AM

sooo... what would be a good bar option for this kite that wouldn't break the bank?
shorter lines than stock would work better for me due to a limited-space flying area.
tom
how about this? https://airush.com/kites/progression-bar/

jeffnyc - 11-19-2019 at 02:19 PM

How about this one, Tom?

https://www.kiteattitude.fr/en/61-totem-universal-bar.html#/...

tomdiving - 11-19-2019 at 06:18 PM

jeffnyc - do you have any experience with these bars?
tom

jeffnyc - 11-19-2019 at 10:34 PM

No - but I recently ordered one of their quick releases. Will probably get it next week. Bars look fairly clean and simple, and I like that the QR has easy to replace parts. I've been cutting down my chicken loops to fit snugly on my slider on my harness (use a low friction ring), and this QR not only comes with a choice of S, M, L chicken loops, they're incredibly easy to cut down if need be. Truthfully, I'd be happy with another Ozone Megatron, but no one sells those any more since the seatbelt style came out.

Anyway - I'm pretty sure this is the same bar that Born kites sells (and Gong and a few others). So someone here should have one.

Love the look of the Gin bars, also nice and clean.

Windstruck - 11-20-2019 at 05:01 AM

Yes, same bar as Born sells. I have six of them in all and have been most pleased with them. Sturdy and well crafted. Center hole is smooth and properly flared. They adjust in width which is something I like for different size kites or the desire to increase or decrease your input to any given kite. There are actually two sizes of these bars, a small and a large. Highly recommended.

I can't speak to the non-bar parts of this setup as Born buys these bars in bulk and then dresses them up with his own stuff.

Quote: Originally posted by jeffnyc  
No - but I recently ordered one of their quick releases. Will probably get it next week. Bars look fairly clean and simple, and I like that the QR has easy to replace parts. I've been cutting down my chicken loops to fit snugly on my slider on my harness (use a low friction ring), and this QR not only comes with a choice of S, M, L chicken loops, they're incredibly easy to cut down if need be. Truthfully, I'd be happy with another Ozone Megatron, but no one sells those any more since the seatbelt style came out.

Anyway - I'm pretty sure this is the same bar that Born kites sells (and Gong and a few others). So someone here should have one.

Love the look of the Gin bars, also nice and clean.

tomdiving - 11-22-2019 at 10:06 AM

my particular need has been met. grabbed a gin bar today on ebay from the UK. the guy is also selling 3 sizes of eskimos.
my bar has a PU coating on the line. don't know if it's version one or two. don't know if that even matters.
tom


gin bar 56 cm.jpg - 11kB

B-Roc - 11-22-2019 at 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving  
. the guy is also selling 3 sizes of eskimos.

my bar has a PU coating on the line. don't know if that even matters.
tom



The Eskimo III, IMO was their best kite ever. Wish they would bring that back. Minor tweaking of the brake bridle and those are awesome.

jeffnyc - 11-22-2019 at 12:33 PM

Still have a 14m Eskimo III for sale, still crispy!
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=34252#pid33...