Charger or new pansh

Quote: Originally posted by Snoboarder

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Quote: Originally posted by Snoboarder

Because we are talking a new kite vs a used kite for about the same money with the discount.

There is a reason for that.

Quote: Originally posted by Blitzhound

There is a reason for that.

I thought we'd covered that.
Out of curiosity John, what's your recent experience with the new kites from Pansh? And, more specifically, the A15 or Aurora which were the initial question?
Your reasons for disliking Pansh may be valid, but they don't appear to contribute to Snoborders question.

Quote: Originally posted by Snoboarder

Thinking charger, pansh a15 or aurora. Any opinions?

Hiaguy: Actually he asked for opinions. I gave Mine. Sorry if you didn't like it. About a year ago a friend purchased an A15. brought it over to the coast so we could get it set up and give it a go. That low sticker price is very enticing even knowing their reputation. But... build quality was NOTHING compared to virtually anything that says Peter Lynn on it. The bar and lines were crap. so we hooked it up to a Peter Lynn Navigator bar. We struggled with getting the bridling adjusted properly. once everything was tweaked properly it flew ok. But the headache of getting it to fly "OK" IMO wasn't worth the savings. But since you tried to call me out on it and Invalidate my opinion. I've also flown the Pansh Legend, Atom, Blaze, And Ace. all of which were garbage IMO compared to similar PL kites I've flown. In fact i got a 2.0 Legend that is destined for the burn pile. I would never give that kite to someone else. its too dangerous. your experience with Pansh was clearly different then mine. But that doesn't give you the right to simply dismiss my experience or try to invalidate my opinion. I also flown the Charger, Venom, Venom2, Phantom2. I loved ARC's for a long time. still do. I would never compare an ARC or any other PL kite to a Pansh. it's like comparing a Kia Amanti to a Mercedes Benz. they're both cars, they're both sedans, they both share similar styling lines. but they are NOT the same and i don't have to drive them to know there is a significant difference in quality and performance.

Snoboarder: I agree with everything Feyd said. He's right on the money. he is also probably one of the most accomplished pilots on here. I would give his opinion serious weight. I apologize for not elaborating on my original post. The ARC's are excellent kites for gusty conditions. hands down. my last ARC i recently sold was a 15M Phantom 2. not as aggressive as a charger but better upwind IMO. the only reason i dont fly Arcs these days is that they don't fit my riding style. i'm a coastal dweller so gusty wind is a non issue for me. so i typically fly high AR race kites and like to go fast. You asked for opinions and mine would be the charger all day long. But it would seem that you already had a developed opinion when you posted and are simply looking for validation to buy a Pansh. More power to you. maybe you'll get lucky and get a good one.

Quote: Originally posted by Blitzhound

In fact i got a 2.0 Legend that is destined for the burn pile. I would never give that kite to someone else. its too dangerous.

I have a have a 4.5 legend, it was actually my first kite. I would not really call that thing dangerous, it is pretty slow and has reduced lift. I let my friends fly it in low winds since I don't mind if they beat it up. If you seriously considering destroying it, I'm sure someone on here would gladly take it as a beater. My 4.5 could use a little brother.

Now back to the topic at hand.

Yes pansh makes cheap kites, and yes some need tuning to fly. Someone local around here was trying to sell an original pansh Aurora for cheap because it did not fly and he had no idea how to fix it. That being said they seem to have gotten better with the A15 and Aurora II's because I have heard alot of good about them. And only $400 for a brand new 15m? Sounds like a great deal. I was actually contemplating getting one awhile back, but the fear of a lemon stopped me.

A used flysurfer speed 3 with a bar can be had for about $6-700, maybe $500 if you have patience, which is not too much more than the A15 with a bar( I would not recommend the pansh bar), and you know you are getting the quality of flysurfer. The A15 is pretty much a lesser copy of a speed 3, with the only thing it is better at is stability.

The charger is another can of worms. As Feyd mentioned they had manufacturering issues that caused them to hand clap and not fly. Coupled with twitchiness, very fast turning, and loss of some arc stability, alot of Arc flyers felt alienated and moved away from arcs.
A solution was eventually found to fix the clapping and tame the beast a bit but the damage was already done.

Now probably the question you should be asking, what do want to do with the kite? Up until this weekend I had a set of guerillas I would take out in the buggy and they were so slow and low performance, but that's what I like in the buggy. On a board though I am all about performance and recently got a 12m charger and it's a hoot. I had a venom before that but I wanted more performance and the charger delivers, at the expense of stability and bar feel. It's a big game of trade offs so a better question would be what do you want from a kite, since I think we are comparing apples to oranges here.

Quote: Originally posted by Snoboarder

Thanks So i mostly kite snow and water on lei's. Went to wbb and rode my atb for a bit and was hooked again. Want to get a kite i can throw out and ride. No pumping. Gusty inland winds. Freeride/freestyle. Thinking charger, pansh a15 or aurora. Any opinions?

The best advice you will get for gusty inland wind is from someone that lives inland.

I would consider a flysurfer peak. I only have experience with the first generation which is fantastic for inland gusty wind.

It may not be a great kite for air time if that's what your after, but I personally wouldn't want to jump with ANY kite in inland gusty wind.

Quote: Originally posted by Snoboarder

Thanks So i mostly kite snow and water on lei's. Went to wbb and rode my atb for a bit and was hooked again. Want to get a kite i can throw out and ride. No pumping. Gusty inland winds. Freeride/freestyle. Thinking charger, pansh a15 or aurora. Any opinions?

I still like to mostly ride FB kites for atb in smooth wind, but I have ridden the large pansh-a15, aurora, and large arc-venom, charger, synergy kites on water in clean winds. For gusty winds I use LEIs. I would say for a twintip the 15m arcs need winds I would use a 12m LEI in, and a 15m a15/aurora I would use a similar 15m LEI winds for. The aurora has less grunt out of the water than the LEI but better speed and upwind angle. For low rolling resistance and limited leverage on an atb in gusty winds a smaller kite flown higher could be easier to manage. The lower projected area and tenancy to zenith would have me try my arc first, so I could keep it high and apparent wind would not kick in so much. When it gets gusty and I can't have good arm control using FB handles on the atb I stop to ride another day as I have learned the hard way when I lose leg control I crash

Here is an example of a Charger in gusts and heavy load/leverage doing Hand Claps :ticking:

Quote: Originally posted by PistolPete

Here is an example of a Charger in gusts and heavy load/leverage doing Hand Claps :ticking:

Wow, those handclaps are terrible. i had never heard that before but I don't follow much of the arc discussion. Seems like a great way to drown out on the water. Think I'll stick with my open celled kites.