Power Kite Forum - Flexifoil buggy advice

Flexifoil buggy advice

Glx - 7-7-2017 at 01:11 PM

Hi. Just about a month ago got my standard flexifoil buggy. Have already had a couple of nice runs in 10-12 mph winds with it. Love the bug, its sturdy and I think it will outlive me. Also it fits perfectly, in one piece, in the back of the truck so it makes taking it to the beach a breeze.
As I am adding to my kite quiver I am starting to realize that with some of my bigger kites I will have to also do something about the bug.
Not planning to race or break any speed records, and certainly not planning to freestyle. Mainly thinking about a cruiser that will be stable enough to manage some of the big PKD century's i got from bigkid.
Looking at either getting a wide axle for the flexifoil (I can find a new one for about $265 shipped), or waiting until a used race buggy comes up for sale in here (a few months back saw a couple going for $450-$550). What would be your sugestion?
Also, if you started with a flexifoil and then got a racer, did you end up keeping the flexi and did you still had much use for it.

Windstruck - 7-7-2017 at 02:06 PM

My suggestion generally can be summarized as N+1. :evil:

Can you have too many buggies or kites? :dunno:

skimtwashington - 7-7-2017 at 04:19 PM

Vehicle used may play a roll in choices. The Buggy weight gets increased also as you go 'up'. ...

..but your truck allows easy haul vs say a.... Honda Civic. Not likely any issue for you with a bigger bug.

With Flexi, or Peter Lynn ST or Comp, you can break down (take off back axle mainly), and fit it inside a car- trunk or elsewhere.... which is nice. Light enough to go on any standard bike rack mount.

The Racers, cruisers won't be as convenient for transport for those with a typical car(and not a truck) . These 'premium' bugs are you where you see a set up with a good commercial or home-made buggy carriers/racks put on...because the weight can jump up from say 40 lbs, to over 100 pounds.

Some folks have both BIG TIRE buggy set ups and barrow tire buggy set ups ready to go..depending on destination's surface conditions. Some may just switch up tires/front axle. Some have regular and wide axle set.

Couple of folks have Flexi Wide axle on there Flexi bug and have said the like the stability... (while keeping it still fairly light).

No..can't have enough buggies....or kites.

actually, can't have enough 'vehicles' to use with your kite( water board, land board, buggy, Coyote Rollerblades, street rollerblades, skis, ice skates....)

Still... I might be all wrong... and all you need is just a wheel ...:puzzled:

hiaguy - 7-7-2017 at 06:06 PM

I ride a PL XR+ with a wide axel and fly from a 2m FB to a 15m DP.
You don't need a bigger/heavier buggy, just a wide axel. :wee:
Just my $.02

Wind_dog - 7-7-2017 at 06:06 PM

My 2 cents
#1 get the long wide axle.dont wait. worth every penny.
#2 Put on some midi tires - cheap extra flotation and stability.
#3 upgrade seat PL Xr. Or VTT or buggy bags depending on your budget.
I love my flexi. Great up to 45mph then I get nervous.
It wants to keep going but I back off.

Randy - 7-7-2017 at 08:27 PM

You say it fits perfectly in your truck. Would wider setup still fit perfectly? My flex fits perfectly in my minivan but anything wider would not. I wouldn't trade my perfect fit for a better or wider buggy I had to set up every time I went out. I love just pulling it out of the back and going.

TEDWESLEY - 8-7-2017 at 05:16 AM

The wide axle makes a huge difference in stability for the Flexi without adding a large amount of weight. I'll admit that the standard
was super easy to load in my E150 Ford van. The wide axle requires that the Headstock bolt be removed with the front wheel assembly
and the buggy slid in sideways. This takes no time at all. The standard axle setup was very twitchy at anything over 25mph, while the
wide axle is smooth and stable.

abkayak - 8-7-2017 at 06:08 AM

never own 1 bug when you can have 2...
never own 1 axle when you can have 2...
i have found this applies to every piece of equip in kiting
my .02

Glx - 8-7-2017 at 06:35 AM

Thanks guys for all the good comments.

Too many questions and choices to decide inbetween.

Wider would not fit in the back of the truck but I have already decided that I need to figure out a way to utilize either the open gate or the tow hitch to rig the bigger buggy in one piece.
As to more is better :evil: my garage space is too limited so a flexi with wider axle would do better or I would let the flexi go if I get a race buggy, or who the he'll knows, might keep two and one of them comes in the master bedroom (hmm wife might not like that idea)
I wanted to make sure that I am not compromising too much stability by getting a wider axle vs an entirely other bug. Also don't want to spend too much money on flexi mods to then find out that it does not run as nice as a race buggy but I still spent as if I got the race buggy. Buyers remorse is a very unhealthy feeling so trying to avoid at any cost.
Looking at the seats the buggybag looks very nice but also the price reflects its quality. Does anyone know where and for how much the VTT seats go? How do they compare to the PL XR+ seat (that seems to be more in the range)
Also, any good source for midi tires. At a minimum I would like to change the standard narrows to midis. What size midis fit the standard rims and do they require different inner tubes than the ones that are being used with the barrows (i am assuming that my barrows have inner tubes, will have to take apart to verify)

Blitzhound - 8-7-2017 at 11:56 AM

I'm going to Chime in here because i feel like i have been down this road. I Started off on a small buggy a Libre V-max. It fit perfectly in the back of my truck. It was light weight. I could simply throw it in the back of my truck and go to the beach. As i started to progress in the sport i felt i wanted something bigger...something more. i looked into upgrading my V-max with a wider axle, bigfoot tires, swan neck. But then one day i got a call from my good friend Sand Flea saying he knew where a race buggy was if i was still interested. I jumped on the deal and in no time i had me a MG Croozer.[img]

[/img] It does NOT fit in the back of my truck. It does fit ON the back just not IN. i'm going to add pics so you understand what i mean.[img]

[/img] But this is easly remedied with a Hitch mount Buggy rack.[img]

[/img]
It weighs twice as much as the V-max. BUT...its also twice the size. Is it Stable at high speeds? Absolutely. ask anyone that has ever had any experiance with these MG buggies. IMO the only way you could find anything better would be to buy one custom built like an APEXX or a GT.
The race buggies are different in more ways then just size. Their stance, the side rails how they maneuver. The side rails on a Race buggy curve inward so you can't just sit straight into it like you do on your flexi. you have to sit just forward of the side rails and slide back into the seat. Its hard to discribe but the rails kinda curve inward and hug you just above the waist essentially locking you into the buggy. Race buggies are wider and longer. they're not quite as agile as your flexi. (I'm sure someone out there will be butt hurt by that comment.) I now have 2 full size race buggies. they are both on bigfoots but i also have barrow setups for both so i dont have to run my bigfoots on the lake beds. i'll try to keep this short. my point is which ever way you decide to go you need to commit to one or the other. i know plenty of guys that are happy with their upgraded flexi's. they ride well, they handle well, they are well built, and are easly modified. You also have to ask yourself are you going to ride enough to justify the cost of a race buggy? A good race buggy is going to set you back a lot more $$$$ than you think. Is your normal riding location big enough to justify a bigger buggy? Understand the race buggy is a completely different animal al together. its like trying to compare a VW Bug to a porche 911. they have a lot of things in common but they are very different cars.

Glx - 8-7-2017 at 01:22 PM

Blitz, Thank you for the awesome reply. :thumbup:

The side by side pictures give me a much better perspective as to what I am looking at. I did not realize the size difference between the two styles. Also after my first post on this thread I went back through some of the older for sale posts and realized that some of the bigger/heavier buggies are going for about double what I thought I had seen and stated above.
At the stage that I am now with buggying (very, very, very early on the different levels of addiction); the only place where I know I can ride which is not very wide (Nahant beach) it seems like the better approach will be to modify the flexi so I get a nice stable buggy that will keep me on the ground once I feel brave enough (maybe in a few months) to put up my biggest kite (10m PKD Century II) in the air.
Maybe will attempt to make it at the WWBB this fall so I can see everything first hand and get to meet some of you guys that attend it so things start making a little more sense.
Now just gotta go and start finding some of the parts and pieces I need to beef up the flexi and also pray for windy/cloudy days that beachgoers decide to stay home so I can go and fly a kite.

Thanks again for the very detailed reply.

Wind_dog - 9-7-2017 at 08:25 AM

GLX-

More 2 cents:

My flexi fits into the back of my Tacoma after
I pop off the two rear wheels. Quick and easy.
Previously, I removed the axle but left the wheels on
so it would fit in the back of my Suby Outback.
Again only two bolts but a bit harder to get on/off.

Consider midis from the big orange HD store (online)
Search Kenda ribbed 16X6.50-8 for your best options.

Long wide axle from Trikebuggy - (super strong)!

I scavenged a PL XR+ seat but it would be worth the $$ new.
Least expensive seat upgrade option IMHO.
Kent at Wind of Change could surely help you there.

Result is a super stable bug with a reasonable size and cost
that works well on the beach or playa.

Glx - 9-7-2017 at 08:35 AM

Thank you Wind_dog.

Does it make a difference if the tires are 2 or 4 ply. Found them on HD as kenda 2 ply. And also found Carlysle ribbed 4 ply 16.5/6.5/8 online for the same price.

Wind_dog - 9-7-2017 at 08:48 AM

Personally I doubt if it matters for our use.
2 ply should be lighter and plenty strong enough.
4 ply might be stiffer stronger heavier.

I have 2 ply with no problems.
Aren't barrows 2 ply ?

Probably a discussion of this in this forum with
some of contradictory opinions :lol:

Blitzhound - 9-7-2017 at 09:37 AM

The midi's most people run are the 2ply. The barrows and the Bigfoots I have are all 2ply. But I'm not sure it matters to much.

Glx - 9-7-2017 at 10:15 AM

Went ahead and ordered the 4 ply Carlisle ones. We will see how they go in o nice they show up towards the end of the week.

flyguy0101 - 10-7-2017 at 09:26 AM

get the wide axle and you will not need a new buggy- my .02 the midis will be great but will make it a lot heavier for picking up but then you will be in the same bug as mine- as for the axle- look at the sliding option form kitetrikes- not used it but it seems like a good idea unless you want to try two wheelin with the wide axle :D really gets you up there
s

Glx - 10-7-2017 at 12:07 PM

Thank you Scott. The buggy is awesome. Already decided to go with the wide axle and midi wheels.

Wind_dog - 10-7-2017 at 01:46 PM

Two wheelin in a wide axle flexi is natural for Master Eli.
Here he is in mine, making it look easy with a depower at SOBB last year.
Yep. Those are midis, too.

Windstruck - 10-7-2017 at 03:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Wind_dog

Personally I doubt if it matters for our use.
2 ply should be lighter and plenty strong enough.
4 ply might be stiffer stronger heavier.

I have 2 ply with no problems.
Aren't barrows 2 ply ?

Probably a discussion of this in this forum with
some of contradictory opinions :lol:

Why go 2-ply or 4-ply when you can go 6-ply? :evil:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=33308&p...

slapbasswoody - 11-7-2017 at 12:46 PM

To all those people who have not ridden in a well made full race buggy.
Try one and your mind will be changed forever. unless you are a freestyler.
This doesn't mean that you need to have a full blown race buggy, they are just better, and for good reason.
Take a look at the forums and facebook in the UK/Europe and get one from there. Even with posting they will be much cheaper than trying to get one from the USA.

2 ply tires are just fine for most beach and grass riding. 2 ply are lighter therefore are better for racing.
4 ply, 6 ply or even more will last longer on more abrasive surfaces but they are heavier.

This is only my opinion so don't sue me if you don't agree.
Woody

Glx - 19-7-2017 at 05:13 PM

Got the XR+ seat today and put it on the buggy. What a difference! Now I am fully in the buggy not on it. So much so that to get out i need to push myself up from the side rails.
The only trouble is that my back is resting against the back axle and it feels like after some time it could get uncomfortable. Any adjustments that you guys suggest or once I get the wide axle this will resolve itself.

abkayak - 19-7-2017 at 07:01 PM

most put somesort of backrest on...would like to see the AWOC tube available again myself...
but you do want something padded to lean against...imo

BeamerBob - 20-7-2017 at 06:36 AM

Wide extended axle fixed all that and gets your elbows off the tires.

Glx - 21-7-2017 at 10:06 AM

Does a swan neck make much of a difference on the flexi buggy. I am thinking of maybe at some point getting a long downtube and cutting/welding to make a swan neck. I have seen dimensions from poppeythewelder for a swan neck for barrow tires. Would it be a decent mod or just a waste of time and money

Wind_dog - 21-7-2017 at 08:29 PM

Hey GLX,

After you get set up with a wide extended axle and your PL XR+ seat and midis,
just chill and ride your buggy for some time. That combo is awesome!!:D
LATER:
If you get itchin for big floaty tires (BF lites) to extend your range into softer sands,
then a wide front fork and a swan neck might be enticing. That's what I am
currently interested in. I found a BF fork but BF swan necks are no longer available.
HERE IS AN IDEA:
I propose a group investment to build some Flexi swan neck downtubes for those who
might want a BF lite Flexi buggy. There are a number of us with ties to those who
could produce such a piece but it is always so much less expensive in any quantty.
A custom piece could be stronger than the less than stellar PL thin parts.

Anybody interested in pursuing this?
I'm in!

BeamerBob - 22-7-2017 at 08:54 AM

Correct. You don't want a swan neck for 16" tires but you'll benefit from it if you jump to BR lites.

Glx - 22-7-2017 at 11:39 AM

Thanks guys.

@Wind dog. The seat is here and installed, the midi tires are also installed. Waiting for wide axle delivery next week.
I would definitely be interested at your idea above about a BF swan neck. If there are any other takers and you can get a good idea of the details i would be interested to check out the cost of such a setup. The long flexi downtube is very enticing, although it sounds like it does not make much sense to do, because the material costs only about $100 and the little welding required I would probably be able to get for free, after cutting and fitting the down tube myself.

Wind_dog - 22-7-2017 at 07:25 PM

@Glx
So, where are you based and what events can you attend?
Any event is worth the effort and expense!!!! (add emphasis here)

Fall SOBB and ABE are coming up in the West,
one on the beach and one on an inland playa,
both with a whole host of characters with a wide range of
experience, gear and BS to share.
Make it a point to connect to the event that works for you.
IMHO, so lucky to have such great resources in this community.
WD.

Glx - 22-7-2017 at 08:04 PM

Thanks wind dog. Im on the east coast. Almost certainly will attend wbb this fall. Should be good to get to meet a few people and learn a few things.

Blitzhound - 23-7-2017 at 08:54 PM

GLX.

You will learn more im 6 hours at an event. Than you will learn in 6 months on your own.
JUST SAYIN!

Glx - 29-7-2017 at 06:42 PM

Wide axle showed up on Friday, and it went on the buggy. This morning conditions at Nahant beach, during morning low tide were excellent. Cloudy, cool, no people and 16 mph winds gusting to 20. PKD Buster 4.4 came out and the next two hours were AWESOME. The buggy becomes a completly different buggy with the PL seat and the wide axle. I thought the midi tires slid more than the barrows but not sure if that was my impression because i was moving faster than I have before. Any ideas on where i could find a belly pan, ended up with a real soggy bottom when i wrapped it up.
After two hours could barely hold on to the kite because of shoulders and arms taking a beating. Not good because the conditions continued to be epic for another 2-3 hours. Which leads me to the next question. I'm starting to think about strapping a harness on but still worried to make that plunge. Thinking it might make sense to wait until WBB in October so i can get some help when i come there. Any advice in the meantime.

eric67m - 29-7-2017 at 08:18 PM

Strong arming builds character....

If you do go and strap in I would highly suggest setting up an automatic quick release (AQR). I have been there when one friend had an out of buggy experience (OBE) and have heard of many others. An aqr is a great way to keep you in your buggy and a little bit safer.