Power Kite Forum

just got snd hand kite cant get it right

ruddiger - 25-3-2007 at 02:07 PM

just bought a second hand Wipika Free Air 8.9 with bars n lines :) brought it out and when i launch it it spins a few times and crashes:( i have tried another kite and its the same......... i checked the lines and they seem to be the same length...... any ideas?? cant wait to get it flyin!:tumble:

acampbell - 26-3-2007 at 05:34 AM

Are you holding the handles at the tops with the main lines btween your index and middle fingers? If so and you are still spinning, it is likely that your brake lines are too tight. Loosen them by shortening the main lines. Do this by tyng a firgure-of-eight knot at equal distances in your main line pigtails at the top of your handles. Then move the main lines' larks head to those knots.

tridude - 26-3-2007 at 06:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Are you holding the handles at the tops with the main lines btween your index and middle fingers? If so and you are still spinning, it is likely that your brake lines are too tight. Loosen them by shortening the main lines. Do this by tyng a firgure-of-eight knot at equal distances in your main line pigtails at the top of your handles. Then move the main lines' larks head to those knots.


AC is right! Tight brakes and unevenly space leader knots will cause your foil to spin. Id also give your brake bridles a good look over for twisting, loops, etc. This will cause an overall length discrepancy and make your kite spin! Try one fix at a time using elimination method so you kow exactly what fixed your problem. Shotgun troubleshooting although faster leaves you with the mindset, "its fixed but what exactly fixed it"? Good luck!

"its all about the passion"

code - 26-3-2007 at 09:42 AM

Not to sound mean, but this is your first post and without knowing if you have any prior experience with lei's I can't help but wonder... do you have the lines hooked to the right spots on the bar? From what I've seen, these can be flown 2 line and 4 line as well.

If this is your first kite, as much as you may not like to hear it...you should probably sell it or tuck it away til you get some flying in on something smaller. Starting off with something smaller and possibly even a foil, should probably also help you with setting it up and trouble shooting as well. Otherwise, if you haven't already been flying for awhile, you're pretty much just attaching lines where "you think" they should go which could end up as a hazard to yourself as well as to others.
Just my .02 ~Joe

acampbell - 26-3-2007 at 10:33 AM

My bad. I read "spins and crashes" and jumped to the wrong conclusion without reading the rest thoroughly. Forget what I said about holding the handles.

How much wind were you in?

code - 26-3-2007 at 12:31 PM

Angus...no biggy... I could see how both you and tri were caught off by what he was talking about. I don't believe that Wipika makes any foils though...so I took a looksy just to be sure.:smilegrin: Was right in my assumptions that it's a Lei.

What he's talking about happening though can happen with depowerable foils as well, when you have the lines hooked up wrong (shhh...don't tell anyone, but I know from experience :smilegrin: ). If the winds are kicking, it can be pretty bad for both the flier and the kite though. Good thing to make sure your kite is hooked up correctly before doing anything else with it.
~Joe

awindofchange - 26-3-2007 at 12:39 PM

HOLD ON THERE

PLEASE DISREGARD THE suggestions on how to hold the handles or running the flying lines through your index and middle finger, THIS KITE IS DESIGNED TO BE FLOWN ON A BAR - DO NOT run the main flying lines through your fingers!!!! This could cause serious injury to you and/or the kite!!! This kite will be extremely difficult to fly on handles and I do not suggest trying that.

The Wipika Free Air is an LEI style kite (Leading Edge Inflatable) that can be flown in 2 line or 4 line configurations. If flown in 2 line and the kite spins out of control and crashes I would assume that your flying lines are not equal or there is the chance that the 4 line bridle is hung up on the kite and pulling one side more than the other causing the kite to spin. Check your flying lines and make sure they are exactly equal in length. Check your leaders on your bar and make sure they are exactly the same length. Attach your lines to the same attachment points so that both sides are exactly equal lengths from the bar. If in two line mode, make sure that both lines are attached to the leading edge attachment points on the kite. It should be marked where to attach the lines in two line configuration and hopefully you got the manual with the kite which will also show you where to attach the lines for two line mode.

If you are flying it in the 4 line setup then either your setup is wrong, one line is longer than the others, or you are not working the bar properly. Again, check that all four lines are equal lengths. Check that the two top lines are running to the center of your power adjuster strap and that the two lower lines are running to each end of your control bar. Make sure that each pair of lines (uppers and lowers) are the same length and attached to the same point so they stay the same length. The quality of your flying lines are also a major factor. If you have inferior lines they could be stretching while you are trying to fly and this could cause loss of control. I ran into a new pilot who purchased clothes line cord from a local Home Depot to rig his new kite with cuz he didn't want to pay the high price of good flying lines. The clothesline cord had about 10 feet of stretch in it and no strength. As soon as the kite caught some wind it lost all control until the line would snap which eventually ended up slamming the kite into the ground and destroying it. Make sure you have high quality flying lines (I am assuming you do, just needed to mention it).

You will also want to make sure that your bladders and struts are all pumped up to the proper pressure. If the kite is too soft it could distort while flying and cause you some grief. If it is overinflated it could burst, causing you more grief.

I highly suggest you hook up with someone else in your area that is familiar with the LEI kites and their proper setups. This kite is large and powerful and could cause some serious harm if not set up properly or if it is flown in the wrong wind conditions. If anything, they could look at your setup and make sure it is correct.

You have stated that you purchased the kite second hand.....this could open up another nightmare. If the bladder is deformed, damaged or not installed properly, this will disrupt the shape of the wing and cause it to constantly turn to one side or not fly properly at all. If the sail has been stretched or damaged then this could cause the same problems. If it was repaired and not done properly, this could change the shape of the wing and cause the same problems.

Hopefully this will put you in a direction to get the kite flying. Let us know more details about your setup and what you are doing and what the kite is doing and we can give you more help on the issues.

Hope this helps!

Bladerunner - 26-3-2007 at 02:20 PM

You Do realize that you hook up LEI's and foils opposite. I suspect you put your flying ( bar ) lines to the front and center lines to the back like with a foil. This would explain why the other kite performed the same ? With an LEI you put your center lines to the front and from and bar to back.
I think the airblast is a very old kite ( 2001 or 2 ) ( one of the 1st lei's ) and you get what you pay for. Buying over the net is ALWAYS a risk.
If you can get lessons you SHOULD!!!

code - 26-3-2007 at 03:12 PM

I don't know that I would consider it opposite to foils. Moreso, similar to depowerable foils (which is opposite of statics on a bar as well). Either way I'm sure ruddiger is pretty confused at this point if he's reading all of this.

ruddiger - take a lesson. I seriously doubt that the reason your having problems is due to the kite, but moreso user error. It isn't that you're stupid for not knowing, but this sport is definitely something not to be taken lightly as you can end up seriously hurt or someone else watching could if you don't know what you're doing and haven't been shown.

If you don't know what to look for when purchasing a used kite and don't already have friends nearby in that are currently in the sport to help you, then you could end up with a nightmare of problems like Kent stated. For instance leaking bladders, or bladders that need to be replaced, installed incorrectly bladders, or deformed bladders, the lines themselves may be old and need replacing, not enough air in the bladders, too much air and the list goes on.

Please take a lesson before you go any further or purchase a 3m trainer kite to get the gist of flying before trying to take on something that large.
~Joe

tridude - 26-3-2007 at 07:51 PM

I should have done my research prior to chimming in! Thanx Code

ruddiger - 27-3-2007 at 05:49 AM

hey guys thanx for replying to post:thumbup:....... i have flown kites before and do know how to handle em! this is my first depowerable inflatable tho, i have checked the lines they all seem the same length and i have tried it on 2 lines but still same prob :( there was not too much wind (scared to take it out in serious conditions) but i tried the lines on a symphony 3.3 with 2 lines and with 4 but still same probs. theres pullys on the top of the kite im not using, should i be? i chwcked the wipika site and they said to attach lines direct to the ends! i have checked with shops and i can get adjusted for £40 but obviously a easy (free ) fix would be better, !?!:(

code - 27-3-2007 at 07:38 AM

ruddiger... the thing you need to know about most lei's is that they're pretty useless under 10mph winds. Usually people fly'em in 12+mph. Due to the weight of the bladders w/ air, etc. the kites take a bit more to get them up in the air.
I know it's been said numerous times, but even if you don't feel comfortable it really doesn't hurt to go the lessons route. The instructors will go over all the stuff with you for your kite if you take it to the lesson. Til you do that, I wouldn't call this a complete loss...let someone else take a look at it as they may be able to help you out.
~Joe

Bladerunner - 27-3-2007 at 12:33 PM

Sounds like you need to post a picture or 2 ?
These other kites you are hooking up to. I expect they fly on your other bar / handles ? If that's the case we are back to line length and wind strength.
Believe me when I tell you, the BEST money you'll EVER spend is on a lesson.

ruddiger - 28-3-2007 at 04:30 PM

pretty confusing stuff!! ii am attaching the lines the same way as i do to my 3.3, is that wrong? i am gonna get some lessons but needmoneys first!! to hook it up for two lines do i attach the 2 main lines(ends of the bars) to the bottom corners of it? cos if thats the way its meant to be it makes sense as i would be using my main lines as breaks!!!! gonna give it a go as soon as i can get some wind:bisou:

ruddiger - 28-3-2007 at 05:21 PM

another thing!! with lei's is there meant to be any lines coming off em to connect the flying and break lines to or is it usually just the pigtails? are the pully things on the LE lust for if ya want to use a 5th line?

Bladerunner - 28-3-2007 at 05:31 PM

LEI's DON'T have BREAKS ????? !!!!!!!!

An LEI flies competely different than a foil and I assume your 3.3 is a foil. ( I've never heard of that size before ) . They are controlled completely different as well.

A foil is basically a 2 line kite with the lines hooked to the bar / top of your handles. The brake lines go to the back.
An LEI is depower and it is an active 4 line set up. With it you connect the bar to the back lines and thr ceter ( trim lines ) to the front. By adjusting the FRONT end of the kite with your trim + chicken loop you change the ANGLE OF ATTACK !!!!!

Are you trying to hook up handles to a LEI ?? 'Cause you can't. Are you trying to use your foil bar on an LEI?? 'Cause you probably can't !

The very fact that your Freeair can be hooked up 2 line or 4 line tells me it's a 1st generation LEI kite. They only did that for a couple of years.

So what you have is a BIG OLD kite . With PRIMATIVE flying characteristic and a lack of any modern safety releases on it. You really NEED to hook up with someone local who has a clue or get a lesson. If not for your own safety then for the flying community. It's the right next step.



YUP. It's an 01 or 02. Almost as old as they get !! That line set-up is just plain ODD !!! No doubt a good reason they never stuck with it !

Here are a some sites relating to it.

http://www.kite-surf.com/userreviews/list_reviews.php?Produc...

http://www.prokites.com/5mwipika.htm

http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/community/forum/viewtopic.ph...

I expect that in 2 line mode you connect only to the very pointed part at the bottom. I caution you about trying it though !

Here's the manual

http://www.wipikakiteboarding.com/fileadmin/file_archive/sha...

ruddiger - 29-3-2007 at 10:36 AM

cheers man, gonna try it right now, yea i assumed it was the same as the foil im using a bar that i got with the LEI so hopefully it'l work- (the 3.3 i have is a HQ symphony also can be 2 or 4 lines!( ..........soon find out:frog::piggy:

Bladerunner - 29-3-2007 at 05:45 PM

If I am right Wipika sized there kites in the projected area ( inflated size) rather than flat before any standards were set. My old Airush is labelled as 7.6 but it is actually 8.9 m flat. So it's likely you have about an 11meter kite by todays standard. If you look at the shape of your kite and then look at EVERYBODY elses you will see it looks completely different. It's a shape that didn't work well so was dumped very early.
The safety systems on todays kites are GENERATIONS away from the unreliable + complete lack of ones you have on that kite !!!!!!! My airush nearly killed me because my loop did not have a quick release and I got caught in it while the kite was Power looping + and slamming me repeatedly in the water !!!!
Sorry to tell you but I think you bought the wrong kite. Especially for learning. ESPECIALLY on land. Those old beasts are unpredictable and lifty. You will learn a lot faster and safer with a different kite. Save up for that lesson and you'll start to see what I mean. It's great your so excited but I think you are a bit misdirected right now !