Yeah baby, yeah! AKA, when it all comes together!

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Awesome! I'm in the same boat with limited time lately and last Sunday lit the fire again for me. I bet the bigger tires helped a ton.

Yup. They were the deal. Just what I needed. Their stoutness were good for setting an edge and holding a line to without side slippage. Plus, and this was purely psychological, when I would look doe at them they just looked the right size and up for the job!

So it was funn...cool, didn't think you were going away

All armored up and ready to fly!

My wife stopped by right when I was about to get going today and snapped this picture. "Plastic Courage" from head to toe!

[img][/img]

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Damn it. I was sure there would be video. Nice armor. I definitely need some if I want to push myself past where I'm at.

You mean like this? Where was that blasted Kite Squire when I really needed him! I launched my 9m Frenzy but really needed to have put up my 12m Summit. I've come to learn that meter for meter than my Ozone kites have a ton less pull than my Peaks. My wife shot some footage on her iPhone but I am really underpowered. My trusty squire would have whipped out my big 12.... wait that's another song....

Nice Steve,

That is a good visual of what is meant by having to " step turn " and " carving a turn ". You are carving a pretty tight turn for such a large wheel base!

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Nice Steve, That is a good visual of what is meant by having to " step turn " and " carving a turn ". You are carving a pretty tight turn for such a large wheel base!

Thanks Ken!! As you know, wheels of doom set ups are great for holding a tack line but not so great in the corners. On a high friction surface like the Ivanpah playa it feels like more or less 95% step turns and 5% carving. On thick grass as I'm on near home maybe this ratio improves to 80/20, with the 20 being in the final parts of the turn once I've re-engaged the power of the kite and I'm dropping it down from zenith to a low pull angle. I'd be curious how this would feel on low-tide sand for example. I suspect it has a bit more lateral give than grass this allowing for a bit more carving.

I further suspect I could carve the early portion of the corner more if I was willing to let the kite go high and back in the direction of the intended turn while staying powered up. At my age I'm not sure I'm ready to do that as I know what can easily come next (can you say vert?). Maybe this winter I'll get up the nerve to pull that move in soft snow on skis.

The spot I go to where my wife filmed me has a nice hill just beyond where I was turning when I was far from the camera. Under better power I like to decend that hill go across what is the outfield of a baseball field, turn, and then shoot back up the hill. I've launched myself off that lip several times which is really fun. Very small jumps at this point with my skates probably not more than a foot off the ground. Baby steps!:karate:

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

Quote: I'd be curious how this would feel on low-tide sand for example. I suspect it has a bit more lateral give than grass this allowing for a bit more carving. A LOT more... With hard pack sand AND a shorter length wheel base like the Coyotes you have... you could be doing such quick short radius turns and carving..... it would feel like a different world. Nirvana. So much less friction or rolling resistance. You would hardly need to step turn unless you are way underpowered(very slow) or stopped. The smaller wheels(150mm) on coyotes would be just right for hard pack sand. You will have to hit the coast one day to find out exactly. If you ever come East to Boston, the Nahant crew will welcome you to our beach, of course.

Thanks for the invite Tuckerman! I'd love to take you up on that someday. I had several bucket list locations and now I have one more! JIBE and SOBB are on the short short list. Such great people come to those two events and the locales look great to boot.

Get exactly what you are saying about the hard pack sand, coyotes, etc. while I only list my Nordic Scouts currently for skates I actually have three skate frames. I have large (EU48) feet and ended up going with a set of Seba boots from a specialty skate outfitter up in Canada. Under those boots I can bolt two wheels of doom set ups (Nordic Scouts at 200x50 and Powerslide Metropolis SUV at 150x25) and I picked up some Coyotes in eBay that I chucked the boots and kept the frames and wheels. For my grass setup near home the Nordic Scouts work the best. My closest hardpack option from Utah is Ivanpah but the 40wt sandpaper surface wears out Coyote wheels really quickly.

You asked about whether I bought my wheels of doom set up. Nope. Got the frames and wheelsets from Germany (not the boot shells):

Nordic Scouts

Really pleased with the quality! High quality aluminum billet CNCed to perfection.

Quote: Originally posted by carltb

another turn is the hop 180. its basically, edge hard upwind as you come to the turn then as you bring your kite high just do a small hop 180 and straight away dive your kite in the new direction. it can all be done in stages until you are comfortable with it, then tie each move together for a smooth transition

I get exactly what you are saying. To date I've only had three sessions and each one feels better than the last. I'll be ready to try this and other hops sooner than later. Thanks for the tips!

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I need some armor like yours if I'm going to progress on the longboard any further because crashes will be guaranteed not a maybe. What type of wrist guards are you using?

Yup, I use the "not if but when"' logic too.

Here's my "plastic courage":

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NIZZ5U/ref=oh_aui_deta...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AU678FO/ref=oh_aui_deta...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052FQ2ZU/ref=oh_aui_deta...

If you go with the jacket then you don't need the elbow pads as they are built in already. I also have a "core pad" over my hips, thighs, and seat meat. This is it here:

http://www.hockeymonkey.com/bauer-hockey-pants-supreme-total...

Not listed here is a pair of hockey shorts that fit over the core pads. They're comparively cheap ($15-25). The thought here is to wear them over the core pads so "when" I fall it's the shorts that get scuffed up, not the pads.

Brain bucket too of course, but you already have that.

Where is that blasted kite squire?

I fully realize how much stuff this is and the resultant costs. I'm certainly not suggesting it's all required; simply decide for yourself which major joints are not worth protecting and skip those! :evil:

Quote: Originally posted by Suds after thuds

I just had a screw put in my good wrist, so now I got a pair. Once the screw is there they say you can't break it again. Ice-hockey goalie pants were key to learning the doom wheels for me. I still wear back protection and mtbike shin- knee guards, plus gloves and brain bucket. My favorite turn on doom wheels was a down loop power slide. First the kite, then the wheels. I'd get to the edge of the runway, send the kite back low,start turning down wind on the short mown grass, get pulled around with a slide, rocket back across the runway, repeat. It came together for me as I was trying to do the 180 hop, but wasn't sending the kite correctly to get air.

Sorry to hear about the wrist and screw. These activities aren't for the faint of heart. I'm still easing into the power kite activities. I'm a confident and competent skier (former college racer) and am far more willing to push my personal envelope on skis atop soft Utah powder then on the various surfaces I'm able to shoot across on my wheels of doom. I picture the turn you describe perfectly and it sounds like a blast and a half. I hope to start pushing things in that general direction this winter with skis on my feet. We'll just have to see how far I get on land this summer and fall.

All right Steve nice go!

heres a few elements that you can add into the equation. maybe this will help you prgress

the threshold amount of speed and /or power is gonna be needed to break the wheels loose for powersliding( fundamental element), this means faster, more kite, more wind. may take some time to gradually feel this out . 15-20mph with 12m kite on skates would be unsettling for even seasoned riders

surface stuff- your spot has artifical turf (shag). they will slip. really just depends how much speed, lift balance and body position to deliver it,
can be done even on asphault! the tires will disappear like erasers! like on dry lake slippage can good and bad all about kite balance and how deep you are into the skate, its not gonna happen standing on top ...it will throw you down! you have to break it down to small usable elements you flow together as you spend more time on them , like the hill you described, roll down it(or straight bomb it!) and find the powerslide balance , speed you need to break them loose. its not easy and filled with risk.

first for slippage change to slicks, i would go after rain for even more rip. ( but art.turf ??rain? ...not real sure about your area)

deepening stance for turns , just like skis, with solid speed and power lift vector from kite,

here's and image (i know no helmet!) demos a turn , kite has to be powered and control to help the moment of lift to make side edge slip and carve, body position countering turn momentum and kite power. hips deep into turn as you would be on downhill ski very much close to mountain. hope it helps . take your time !feel comfortable what you are doing and add small amounts of speed and power ...you are well on your way.

Hail Plastic Courage!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

My wife stopped by right when I was about to get going today and snapped this picture. "Plastic Courage" from head to toe! [img][/img]

Wind direction was such today that I only had one not so good field option for kite skating. Since a bad day of kite skating far exceeds a good day at home I jumped out anyway. Had a great and lively session with my 12m P2 getting some good solid laps in back and forth across a soccer field downwind to a field house that created a sort of diagonal wind block over half the field. The ends of the fields have stout wood fences and in a fit of pure pilot error I got too close to one and didn't bring the kite around in time to avoid getting slammed into the fence as the kite powered up. Took the blow in my shoulder hip, thigh and head all of which was dorn in the Plastic Couage I have on in a photo above. While the impact was pretty strong I came away essentially unscathed!

Hail to Plastic Courage, once again saving my seat meat from some real damage! :karate:

All tht gear just to ride on grass, come on. what ya skerd of a papercut from a blade of grass. that's enough gear to wrestle alligators not kiting.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

My wife stopped by right when I was about to get going today and snapped this picture. "Plastic Courage" from head to toe! [img][/img]

Quote: Originally posted by gemini6kl

All tht gear just to ride on grass, come on. what ya skerd of a papercut from a blade of grass. that's enough gear to wrestle alligators not kiting.

I know, right?

Actually, I bought all that riot gear not for grass but to have on when I kite skate on Lake Ivanpah. The playa there is rock hard and akin to 40wt sandpaper and will wreck your whole day if not your week when you go down hard at high speed. I feel a little sheepish each time I armor up for my grass runs, but as I proved to myself on the 4th even soft grass fields are lined with fences that I can slam into.

The other reason is peace at home. My bride puts up with my extreme skiing and kiting adventures but I'm pretty much hanging by a thin thread in that department. Putting all that stuff on keeps her more OK with my antics and that's a GOOD thing.

@Phree - I hear you loud and clear about learning more in a few seconds of mistakes and crashes then in all the cruising back and forth. Now whether it sinks into my noggin or not is a whole other matter but I once again learned that my #1 responsibility is to keep track of my kite. I was flying my 12m Peak-2 and it turns like a slow barge. I simply didn't allow for enough time to swing it around before I ran out of track and then I was looking at the rapidly approaching fence instead of the kite and it dive bombed into the power zone which made me hit the fence even harder than necessary. Doh! :o

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

try to keep your course simple and repetitive. you want mindless reflexes to develop, not wondering about with chaotic action. LOOK where you are going stop looking at the kite, the bar/harness will tell you everything you need to know about the kite. navigate early! , stay on course , THE most important element is good body position and speed control ...then slowly add speed to laps and transitions as mindless reflexes improve and free up noggin space for progressive action ---> deepen stance , powerslides, acceleration, edge control , higher navigation and faster downwind returns. when the grass is shredding, and you have worn a solid transition spot you are doing it right, and its time to navigate up and vary your course so you don't destroy your playground spot. HANDS, HIPS and HEAD must have protection, the rest is pilot choice. always have fun

All great advice and greatly appreciated. I usually do look where I'm going as compared to looking at the kite and do rely on feedback from the bar and harness for guidance. The problem sometimes, and this time in particular is the nature of the wind combined with a particularly large kite (wind swirling due to a diagonal wind block from a large and close upwind building and the barge like 12m P2) can make for bad kite behavior. In this instance the kite simply didn't turn despite full bar actuation. On this particular turn the way I got the kite to finally turn was by reaching up and grabbing the right brake line and pulling it towards me. By the time that worked the rest had gone to hell and whammo, into the fence went I! :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

i think the squire was necessary for oiling up the armor

Where is that blasted squire?

Titan armor

Quote: Originally posted by Brant

Hey Windstruck, I was wondering about the Titan armor shirt that you wear. I've got a dirtsurfer enroute and I'm planning on donning quite a bit of "plastic courage" when riding it, especially with kites. I've done some looking and it's the best thing I can find in my price range, only issue is that there is no where local to try one on. If you don't mind my asking roughly how big are you and what size did you go with? Also, is it too bulky to wear under winter clothing? Figure if I'm getting one might as well get something I can use its the snowboard as well. I'm planning on ordering one of these shirts as well as motocross style shin/knee protectors (they look like they'll fit better under snow pants). Never had any experience with wrist guards, anybody have any recommendations if they're worth it and point me in the right direction if they are? Other than that I'm going to just rock my snowboarding helmet for now, but if the dirtsurfer is as much fun as I think it's going to be I'm probably going to end up getting something a little more warm weather appropriate, probably with a little more protection as well. This may well be overkill, but my first kid is 18 months old and the second one is on the way so I'm trying to keep my priorities straight and my risks minimized. Thanks!

"How big a boy are ya?" you ask? Call it 6 feet and a rock hard 220 lb. That rock hardness covered up with just a tad of pudge, you know, for modesty's sake.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AU678FO/ref=oh_aui_deta...

I ended up going with an XXL and it seems to fit true to size. There is a fair amount of spandex or some similar kind of stretchy material throughout along with quite a few Velcro adjustable straps so you've got some play in it. I had originally tried on John's (cerebite) XL at IBX2016 but it was a tad "snug".

As for fitting under winter garments I would tell you that the shirt is skin tight but somewhat bulky by its very design, adding girth throughout with all of its various plastic plates, padding, and the like. I plan to wear it this winter for Snowkiting but my wind shell is quite oversized. If you were planning on putting it under something that fits well now and isn't stretchy then I'd say it will not work well. So, say you fit in a Large winter jacket without the Titan shirt then you'd need to upsize to an XL jacket for comfort.

Having pretty much walked away from a 30+ ft plunge with this shirt on I would naturally recommend it. My suggestion would be to get it and then try on your jacket over it. Snowkiting and the like is pretty vigorous so unless it is bitterly cold you won't likely want much insulation on your upper body. So worse comes to worse and you pick up a cheap oversized shell. Problem solved!

Good luck with everything.

Quote: Originally posted by gemini6kl

All tht gear just to ride on grass, come on. what ya skerd of a papercut from a blade of grass. that's enough gear to wrestle alligators not kiting. Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   My wife stopped by right when I was about to get going today and snapped this picture. "Plastic Courage" from head to toe! [img][/img]

How Ironic that it was exactly this batch of plastic courage that potentially saved WindstrucS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s life shortly after. How fortunate you didn't bow to pear pressure and protected your brain + body!

I wonder what you think about your " paper cut from grass " outlook now? Generally, making somebody feel bad about padding up isn't cool.

I FULLY get the " plastic courage " approach ! Many of us, myself included live with daily pain from old kite / sport injuries. When you get older you don't bounce back as fast and old injuries come back to haunt you. I didn't fully understand that when I was younger but am finding it's true.

Of all my safety gear my helmet has saved me most often and at the times I least expected. I wear it every time I put a kite up. I add gear relative to the day. Putting on the proper safety gear TRULY allows my mind to allow me to push it harder than without. It allows me to trick my old brain and take chances.

Somehow through a combination of getting older and constant reminders from injuries My young mind says " chuck it hard and pop high". Now there is more of a reflex thing takes over and I back off. When I am properly padded I can relax more and overcome a lot of that new reflex to back off. = Plastic courage = more phun =

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Quote: Originally posted by gemini6kl   All tht gear just to ride on grass, come on. what ya skerd of a papercut from a blade of grass. that's enough gear to wrestle alligators not kiting. Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   My wife stopped by right when I was about to get going today and snapped this picture. "Plastic Courage" from head to toe! [img][/img] How Ironic that it was exactly this batch of plastic courage that potentially saved WindstrucS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s life shortly after. How fortunate you didn't bow to pear pressure and protected your brain + body! I wonder what you think about your " paper cut from grass " outlook now? Generally, making somebody feel bad about padding up isn't cool. I FULLY get the " plastic courage " approach ! Many of us, myself included live with daily pain from old kite / sport injuries. When you get older you don't bounce back as fast and old injuries come back to haunt you. I didn't fully understand that when I was younger but am finding it's true. Of all my safety gear my helmet has saved me most often and at the times I least expected. I wear it every time I put a kite up. I add gear relative to the day. Putting on the proper safety gear TRULY allows my mind to allow me to push it harder than without. It allows me to trick my old brain and take chances. Somehow through a combination of getting older and constant reminders from injuries My young mind says " chuck it hard and pop high". Now there is more of a reflex thing takes over and I back off. When I am properly padded I can relax more and overcome a lot of that new reflex to back off. = Plastic courage = more phun =

Thanks Ken! Hard to stop the march of time.... I was a downhill ski racer through college and now have a bunch of places around my body that remind me on a daily basis about my short days of glory back in the late 70s and early 80s.

Since my recent "flight of fancy" left me in need of a new helmet ( :o ) I picked up one that to date I am pretty pleased with.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FPWLQM4/ref=oh_aui_deta...

This helmet was designed for downhill mountain bikers, folks pretty much as crazy as us! What I like about it is the ventilation. Both downhill mountain biking and kite buggying share in common the fast speed and need to keep your head cool with nice air flow. I can wear this helmet in reasonably warm low humidity weather (80's) and not sweat up in it. I have a motorcycle helmet that is also full like this one but I get super sweaty in it. I will save that latter one for Snowkiting when the extra warmth will be welcome!

I'm confident in my masculinity and am more than willing to put however much Plastic Courage on my body as I deem necessary for any given event. I'm tracking right with you about needing to calm the inner voice. I don't look to silence that Lamb within me mind you as it is probably the one voice that keeps me alive at all! :frog:

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

I FULLY get the " plastic courage " approach ! Many of us, myself included live with daily pain from old kite / sport injuries. When you get older you don't bounce back as fast and old injuries come back to haunt you. I didn't fully understand that when I was younger but am finding it's true.

Hell, I'm only 27 and I already hurt from old injuries. An evening with a knee board designed for water being pulled behind a skidoo on snow comes to mind... One hell of a fun time, but then I drove to work for two months with my left leg because my right one hurt too bad if I kept it bent for more than 10 minutes. I'm half worried what I'm going to be like when I'm 60 with the injuries I've already bestowed upon myself, let alone with what's still to come.

On the current subject: I think I've found a good website here in Canada with a good return policy, I'm going to contact them to make sure I've got everything straight then place my order for a XXL. If I'm wrong hopefully I can just send it back for the XL. Have to remember in my excitement to try it on under my winter jacket before I take the tags off...

I've been leaning towards the mountain bike helmet as well for summer protection, might have to wait a little while after this purchase before I run that by the wife though... Luckily this weekend is my anniversary, so I'm getting the safety gear "as my present" Anywho, wondering if anyone has opinions on full face vs 3/4 face and the other options? I know I read a thread somewhere on here, I believe referencing Bigkid's experience, about the possibility of the full face actually digging into your chest on impact (or worse). I'm hoping the combination of body armor with a chest protector like this would prevent that possible issue? Hell, while I'm going full bore on this safety thing anyways, does anyone have any experience with the neck braces designed to support the bottom of the helmet on your shoulders if you take a header? (Basically a big foam donut that stops your neck from being crushed when you land helmet first) not even sure if a mountain bike style helmet would go low enough to work with those? Or how much they limit your movement?

Wow that's a big post. Sorry for the rambling...

Quote: Originally posted by Brant

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner   I FULLY get the " plastic courage " approach ! Many of us, myself included live with daily pain from old kite / sport injuries. When you get older you don't bounce back as fast and old injuries come back to haunt you. I didn't fully understand that when I was younger but am finding it's true. Hell, I'm only 27 and I already hurt from old injuries. An evening with a knee board designed for water being pulled behind a skidoo on snow comes to mind... One hell of a fun time, but then I drove to work for two months with my left leg because my right one hurt too bad if I kept it bent for more than 10 minutes. I'm half worried what I'm going to be like when I'm 60 with the injuries I've already bestowed upon myself, let alone with what's still to come. On the current subject: I think I've found a good website here in Canada with a good return policy, I'm going to contact them to make sure I've got everything straight then place my order for a XXL. If I'm wrong hopefully I can just send it back for the XL. Have to remember in my excitement to try it on under my winter jacket before I take the tags off... I've been leaning towards the mountain bike helmet as well for summer protection, might have to wait a little while after this purchase before I run that by the wife though... Luckily this weekend is my anniversary, so I'm getting the safety gear "as my present" Anywho, wondering if anyone has opinions on full face vs 3/4 face and the other options? I know I read a thread somewhere on here, I believe referencing Bigkid's experience, about the possibility of the full face actually digging into your chest on impact (or worse). I'm hoping the combination of body armor with a chest protector like this would prevent that possible issue? Hell, while I'm going full bore on this safety thing anyways, does anyone have any experience with the neck braces designed to support the bottom of the helmet on your shoulders if you take a header? (Basically a big foam donut that stops your neck from being crushed when you land helmet first) not even sure if a mountain bike style helmet would go low enough to work with those? Or how much they limit your movement? Wow that's a big post. Sorry for the rambling...

That skidoo romp sounds like something I would have done too! Yup, Jeff (BigKid) had one hell of a run in with a full face helmet, you remembered correctly. Safety equipment designed for motorcross and downhill mountain biking seem to make sense to me too. Same high impact requirements during an athletic outdoors activity where the athlete needs mobility and dexterity. I live in ski resort country and have seen all manner of safety gear as you described on folks bombing down the mountains in the summer. The stuff is pricey but then so is the price of not having it on when (if) you actually need it.

Good luck!