Power Kite Forum

Can't launch 4 line pkd buster, pulls down from middle

happy - 3-6-2016 at 10:39 AM

Hi!

Please excuse my lack of kite talk. I'm having some trouble with a PKD Buster 4 Line kite that I picked up second hand.

When I try to launch the kite, as soon as the wind fills the kite as its on the ground and the lines tighten, the lines that go directly to the middle of the kite pull so tight that the kite collapses from the middle.

The break line lines are at the bottom right? I'm not sure what the lines directly in the middle are called. These lines are not connected to the lines on the very bottom of the kite, the lines I think, perhaps incorrectly, are the breaklines.

I have attached a picture and highlighted the lines that pull to the point the kite collapses.. this is pretty much instant as soon as the kite catches wind.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
H.

Pasted image at 2016_06_03 06_38 PM.png - 163kB

bigkid - 3-6-2016 at 11:35 AM

Need to see the bridle connection all the way to the last knot .

happy - 3-6-2016 at 11:42 AM

Thanks, I will take more pictures. What does the bridle look like?

OffAxis - 3-6-2016 at 11:46 AM

The bridle is essentially all the lines that are attached to the kite. This may be an interesting read for you. http://www.coastalwindsports.com/102NextFlights4LineHandles....

abkayak - 3-6-2016 at 11:50 AM

bridle is all the lines coming off the kite that come together into the 4 separate connections(bundles) or last knots... that lead to power and brake lines

happy - 3-6-2016 at 12:02 PM

Thanks both..I'll read that page and see if I can work it out... picturing all the lines sounds tricky :)

WELDNGOD - 3-6-2016 at 12:40 PM

just lay it out with the bridles separated. We need to see the pigtail ends.

WELDNGOD - 3-6-2016 at 12:43 PM

I bet the pigtails are larksheaded to the bridles

Bladerunner - 3-6-2016 at 04:02 PM

It is hard to tell in that picture but it looks like your bridle is crossed up?

When your bridle lines are correct it is easy to be sure. NOTHING will cross other lines. Front row and the 2 behind it ( A, B and C ) should all gather together at the leader that you larks head your fly lines to. Everything should be equal and opposite on both sides. The back row ( Z or brakes ) will gather together separately to leaders for your brake lines. When everything is correct they all cascade nicely and you can easily see that nothing is crossed up.

You are on track holding the kite open like that to work things out. It just may be that the canopy has been passed through a bridle set? If that is the case you may have to pull the whole canopy through. Doing that can get messy if you are wrong! Think hard before you try that move and pay attention to what you did so you can undo it if wrong.

happy - 4-7-2016 at 12:44 PM

Thanks everyone for your help so far, it's taken me ages to take pictures of this.

Bladerunner, from what I can see the canopy is not pulled through the bridle...

Weldngod, "I bet the pigtails are larksheaded to the bridles" .. how do I check that?

"just lay it out with the bridles separated. We need to see the pigtail ends."... Ok, see pictures on the link below.. (size limit wont let attach them to the thread).. if there is something I've missed just let me know and I'll take more.

https://app.box.com/s/o4ggcwhl0eqzbxfbsrtbiqe78wboi08x

Thanks again for all your help, its greatly appreciated.

ssayre - 4-7-2016 at 01:05 PM

I can't tell for sure but you definitely have a mess going on where the abc bridles join together. Also, I'm not sure what someone has done with the pigtails that the bridles attach to but I've never seen several knots like that before. Looks like you will have to get all the bridles separated and straightened out. If you can't do it with the pig tail still attached you might (and probably will) have to pick the bridle apart by removing the pig tail and sorting out all of the bridles, then join them on the pig tail again.

I'm only guessing, but it looks like someone has messed with the bridle pig tails and connection heavily. Hopefully it wasn't a failed attempt by the last owner to replace or repair broken bridles. If that's the case it could be pretty difficult to repair without bridle diagram and measurements from pkd.

happy - 4-7-2016 at 01:15 PM

Thanks ssayre.

I'll try picking it apart and starting from scratch.. before I do, I should probably know what goes where.. I looked at this image: http://www.coastalwindsports.com/FoilFixedBridle4-LineHandle... which seems to have lines running horizontally across the the kite.. 2 at the front and 1 toward the back... but my kite has 4 horizontal lines running across it... 2 at the front, 1 at the back and 1 in the middle..

I've taken a picture and drawn lines on it to show what I mean here: https://app.box.com/s/kvy3u9hrxbvyar8khtm0ey48w0iqgkt2

On my kite, 1 and 2 are the power lines and 4 is the break line, right? What is number 3? It's currently attached to the same place the where 1 and 2 are attached.

Thanks

happy - 4-7-2016 at 01:20 PM

looking again that example picture, I can see that has 4 horizontal lines ... same as mine... and the front 3 seems to be attached to the power line lines withon only the 4th row being attached to the break, so that is not the problem I guess.

Something that maybe off though is on row 3 from my photo, the two middle most points cross over each other, so if you split the kite vertically down the middle, two of the center lines cross over... thats not right, or is it?

Cheers

happy - 4-7-2016 at 01:32 PM

Further on my last update, it looks like the three front lines... where the last lines attach in the center of the kite all cross over the kite.. I've not seen this in any pictures online... I've never seen lines crossing the kite like this.. could that be the issue I'm having with the kite not taking off and crumpling?

I made a diagram of what I mean using a stock kite image (not my exact kite, but the newer version of it with the same number of lines)...

https://app.box.com/s/03redgbq2wpfs99fclzouqi0jp7t3w83

ssayre - 4-7-2016 at 01:37 PM

If that's the case, it looks like you may have found your problem.

happy - 4-7-2016 at 01:38 PM

I bought the kite on ebay, why would someone do that to me :D

I'll remove the cross over and see how it goes, thanks

WELDNGOD - 4-7-2016 at 01:43 PM

1,2, and 3 are powers( L & R ) 4 is brakes. Loosen the knot from #3 and slip it between the first and second knot on the power bridle
(where the 3 knots in a row are). The knot from #3 is not supposed to be located there. This was a attempt at a crude AAA kit. (adjustable angle of attack).

WELDNGOD - 4-7-2016 at 01:53 PM

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=25487

WELDNGOD - 4-7-2016 at 02:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by happy  
I bought the kite on ebay, why would someone do that to me :D

I'll remove the cross over and see how it goes, thanks
Don't remove the crossover ,it is like that on mine!!! Just move that knot and do the same for both sides. the two # 4 bridles are the brakes.

happy - 4-7-2016 at 02:14 PM

Ok, close one!

"1,2, and 3 are powers( L & R ) 4 is brakes. Loosen the knot from #3 and slip it between the first and second knot on the power bridle
(where the 3 knots in a row are)."

.. Ok will do, thanks.. Currently the knot from #3 goes to the last knot before the end of the power bridle... and it slides up a down by about 4 inches.. Its also attached to 3 other knots from row #3 .. I'll move it up to the first and second knot on the power bridle and see how it goes...

By first and second knot, I assume you mean the "first knot" is the closest to the kite and furthest from the handle?

Cheers

WELDNGOD - 4-7-2016 at 03:23 PM

yes

bigkid - 4-7-2016 at 03:24 PM

If WG's help doesn't pan out I would ask for you to send me the kite. I have the layout diagram for that kite. I won't charge for the work of getting the bridle straitened out for you. You pay for shipping the kite only, don't need the lines connected.
If you want...

Windstruck - 4-7-2016 at 04:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
If WG's help doesn't pan out I would ask for you to send me the kite. I have the layout diagram for that kite. I won't charge for the work of getting the bridle straitened out for you. You pay for shipping the kite only, don't need the lines connected.
If you want...


You're a good man, Charlie Brown. :saint:

Bladerunner - 4-7-2016 at 04:18 PM

In the 1st picture the bridle gathers together and is attached at the top of that leader line with all those knots. Down near the bottom it looks like 1 or 2 lines are larks headed separate and down there? THAT looks like your problem to me? That bridle set should all be together at the top.

I have a feeling your left bridle isn't messed up? If so, make the right match the left.

Let this be a lesson about what seem like good deals on Ebay. Best to shop the for sale section of reputable forums.

WELDNGOD - 4-7-2016 at 05:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD  
I bet the pigtails are larksheaded to the bridles
That was my first impression. But after looking at mine ,I think the AAA is out of whack.

bigkid - 4-7-2016 at 06:06 PM

The pics are not good enough for a clear resolution to this issue in my mind. Of course we know what the problem might be and what picture we would take to show it.
My offer as the North American distributor for PKD still stands. And on this fine holiday with all the celebrating, I'm still standing also with only a small wobble of liquid cheer. :cool:
Happy 4th of July.

riffclown - 4-7-2016 at 06:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
The pics are not good enough for a clear resolution to this issue in my mind. Of course we know what the problem might be and what picture we would take to show it.
My offer as the North American distributor for PKD still stands. And on this fine holiday with all the celebrating, I'm still standing also with only a small wobble of liquid cheer. :cool:
Happy 4th of July.


That's an offer second to none..:thumbup:

abkayak - 4-7-2016 at 07:26 PM

America....#@%$#!yea.

happy - 5-7-2016 at 02:01 AM

Thanks WELDNGOD, will try all this later today and report back.. providing there's some wind to test it out :thumbup:

bigkid, that is a super kind offer, thank you. I'm in the UK and I think the shipping would end up costing me more than the I paid for the kite, but I appreciate the offer a great deal. Also, where would one get a copy of that layout diagram? It would help a lot, I did look online but failed to find anything.

Thanks


jimbocz - 12-7-2016 at 04:54 AM

I'd be happy to meet up with you and try to help you get your kit flying. I live in Twickenham but I don't mind an excuse to meet at a beach somewhere. Of course, no charge but you can bring cake!