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Phoil werks

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grigorib - 4-3-2016 at 07:50 AM

What reduced my struggle a lot was observing foiling videos and figuring out that rear foot shall stand right behind the mast and front wing positioned about the center of the body. That allowed to apply more pressure to the rear foot, and muscles memory work well for board control then. Foiling is not as instant though, but dolphin effect decreased so much too.

PHREERIDER - 4-3-2016 at 05:36 PM

short go today with wind just going to nothing. definitely alotta of bucking and wanting to rip upwind. all down , all down wind for short goes.

have to agree the back foot in the strap is just too far back , i just have to get a bit more over the mast with back foot.

thanks for the intel, its going and getting in the time. first good side shore day should be next run, just need light power match and back strap gone. i am getting more comfortable with it.

Kamikuza - 4-3-2016 at 07:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

have to agree the back foot in the strap is just too far back , i just have to get a bit more over the mast with back foot.

No it's not

I ride with rear foot in the center of the rear strap, center of the board and front foot up with toes touching the front part of the strap, foot more towards the heel side edge.

I have the straps at the widest holes on both the strap and the board...

I guarantee that you're thinking "I've got all my weight over my front foot goddamit!" but you're actually not

but that's even correct, as the balance is just so different to TT or directional...

PHREERIDER - 4-4-2016 at 05:26 AM

at this point i really don't know, i'll get some better conditions to allow longer tries.

up til now all have been off shore.

i will find the balance on the thing, just have to leave the ATB and the TT! and take the foil.

that is now and will be my biggest problem!

PHREERIDER - 4-4-2016 at 06:15 PM

yep. first click!

finally !the conditions i intend to ride in arrives. late afternoon hi tides peaks and 12ish with some capping, beach has a quick 2+ feet rolling in, and tiny bit of wash close in , its side on with slight surface current flow.

12m kite (took couple laps on TT doable but very tideous light with current)

back foot over mast, giddy up! off we go ..right on top of the foil! standing straight up . ZOOM ! about 100m til hit the bottom , man that unit is slick quick! kinda balanced on both feet , steer with STANDING feet and head positon seemingly...don't even remember what kite was doing. board may have been off the water half the ride. seems "rigid "and glidy like ice , but totally silk smooth. love it!

next run kinda same but ripped upwind, instantly jacks me 3ft out of the water , wow amazing snap! the power ! then drop like a rock on my back glad the thing didn't smack me in the head ! without the back strap , thats what happens.

totally stoked ....and its THE EXACT same conditions i learned strapless in

still long way to go , glad the gear is square and solid!

grigorib - 4-4-2016 at 07:39 PM

Glad for you man! Feels amazing, right?
That stance I saw in so many videos including guys who race and it felt more balanced to me, closer to door in lightwind. Except that glide!

Flyfish - 4-4-2016 at 08:01 PM

Right on!
I had a bit of a break through today. My conditions are not ideal at all. I have to body drag really far out passed impact zone. Waves were 8 foot, got denied twice body dragging out! But made it outside. Wind was 8 meter.
At first I felt like I was never going to get this. But then I started doing a few things different than I had been.

First, NOT intuitive, I actually moved my back foot further back than I had been. I have NO idea why that helped, but I kept the front foot pressured but was much more able to steer the board in dealing with the chop and swell.

Second I was ridding a touch downwind. This kept my board flat at all times and I found WAY easier to just deal with pitch and not have to deal with roll at the same time. I would say this might be the key item for me. I can't say that enough!

Third, I made MUCH smaller inputs and corrections. And tried to make them sooner. This really helped make my rides longer.

I sooooo wish I had flat water to learn! But it doesn't exist, so have to deal!

We'll get it.

Kamikuza - 4-4-2016 at 08:39 PM

Good stuff

I went out yesterday and took the back strap off so I could play with foot position. . . . Super-super light (Speed3 15 just staying in the air

) picking up to over-powered . . . probably 14 knots LOL

First, I should apologize cos you're wings are different so that negates anything I said

But I found my preferred foot position was . . . exactly in the middle of the rear strap.
Foot forward, it was easier to ride the board "parked" but the LF foil is inclined to fall at a certain speed, and you can't fight that so easily with the foot forward.
Also, the board was less snappy in direction changes, like when playing with swell.
I really missed being able to "ollie" the board up when the board speed or wind dropped, and the feedback from a carve.
Too easy to misstep and put the foot too far over the toe- or heel-side rail. . . .
It didn't improve my attempts to switch feet all

so I reckon I lost more than I gained.

But . . . your results may differ :lol:

@Flyfish: when I was looking at the Fun Foil, someone reviewing it said that the straps are in a great position, perfectly balanced in the middle position, which is why I went with two straps from the beginning.

I think it works because you can "push" off the back foot to get your weight forward but your base as wide as possible. Look at the LF video of the guy on the balance board, and the second or third in their tutorials, of the guys riding well--they're making like they're doing Tai Chi or something, but that stance helps.

Initially, you gotta stand up dead straight on the board, keeping it parallel to the water, and ride upwind by twisting your hips into the wind. Well, I did--anything off-center balance point resulted in board shooting out in all directions.
Keep the kite in one position--any lift you get from the kite will reduce your weight on the board and the foil will lift and if it's close to the surface, it'll ventilate and . . . you'll crash. I found riding with the kite close to the water to be easier . . . but speed got out of control in gusts

So, 45 degrees and sheet in and out for a tiny bit of speed and lift.
I found foot position on the board helped with roll control--rear foot centered and square across the board, front foot angled and towards the heel edge, like it was a 3-strap board.

If I can learn, here in chop and crappy wind, anyone can :lol:

just gotta put the hours in. I just wish I could change direction without having to fall over :borg:

PHREERIDER - 4-5-2016 at 05:10 AM

Thanks for input guys. KK the somo stance had muscling it too much, no worries. Definitely found controls to start getting more time . The small wave action and wash pheels like home to me. One more short session close in both ways , then hopefully start stretching out. Sea breeze starting to set up definitely helping.

Guys this is great stuff, indeed loving it

Demoknight - 4-5-2016 at 08:50 AM

I just think it is really awesome how you made your own foil man. I hope you get to show it off to us at JIBE in a few weeks. I really want to see it up close. Your pictures and descriptions have been really fun to read, and I don't even ride on water. You have a real knack for building and hacking.

PHREERIDER - 4-5-2016 at 12:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

I just think it is really awesome how you made your own foil man. I hope you get to show it off to us at JIBE in a few weeks. I really want to see it up close. Your pictures and descriptions have been really fun to read, and I don't even ride on water. You have a real knack for building and hacking.

thanks so much man, will bring to JI for sure, i'm totally a neophyte now but by then a seasoned neophyte most likely.

in love with all of it. everyday.
AND..
bringing a deluxe surprise to JI as well. you'll be the first to ride it!

Flyfish - 4-5-2016 at 06:08 PM

HUGE success for me today!
Waves were still 8 feet and light 8 meter wind. I was soooooo lucky to make it outside body dragging through the impact zone! I seriously have NO idea how that happened.

But once outside I started having consistent 5-8 second foil rides. But all were still ending with cavitating the wing out of the surface. Then I started fully standing on the front foot while I was on the foil.
Then the rides were lasting like 30 seconds!

Kami, it's just like you said about the stance. Once up and foiling it's like 90% weight fully on front foot.

Phree, it helped a ton again today keeping my speed under control by both depower AND ridding toward the kite when I felt a tiny need to kill power in the kite.
It's like Kami said, if you edge, you'll just go faster.
Also, it seems to help keeping the kite pretty low.

So stoked!

Problem: wind is shutting down. I'm Sooo close to break through!

PHREERIDER - 4-5-2016 at 06:52 PM

nice Fly its the stoking season! , super sessioned TT 9m full on rodeo! mega chop , 6-8 ft rollers . boost phest fo sho , love it when the place gets washed out.

standing up straight over the mast definitely balanced froward to front foot , running down wind is working out .

today was NOT a good foil day, prolly would have lost body part!

Kamikuza - 4-6-2016 at 06:25 AM

Riding the foil's kinda like learning to balance a broom in your hand. At first, you over-compensate massively but as you develop the feel, your reactions become much more subtle and pro-active...

Actually, it's EXACTLY like balancing a broom

Windy, rough water days aren't the time to be learning. 12-18 knots would be perfect...

I can't imagine having to get out through 8-foot waves either--good job, FF!

Demoknight - 4-6-2016 at 01:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

AND..
bringing a deluxe surprise to JI as well. you'll be the first to ride it!

You got my curiosity piqued now... I am bringing another little toy with my to the island this year. I hope it helps get some unique camera angles. We will see if it works out. I have a new RC monster truck. It is pretty big, somewhere between 5th and 6th scale and it is electric. I have it geared right now perfect for hitting around 40mph on flat ground, and it still pops wheelies on demand. I plan to stick a camera on that bad boy and chase some buggies and boards!

PHREERIDER - 4-6-2016 at 04:04 PM

cool DEMO bring it! promise you're in for some deep phun, its one phresh piece of phun junk!

You are right KK , focused , subtle and ALWAYS ahead of the action . i think 10-12 knts is ideal, but i have considerable education to go just glad to be up for short ride ATM.

grigorib - 4-7-2016 at 10:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

I am bringing another little toy with my to the island this year.

Where are you guys going, OBX?

PHREERIDER - 4-7-2016 at 05:43 PM

JIBE , on jekyll island, GA.

its a supreme scene ...

you gotta do it.

PHREERIDER - 4-7-2016 at 05:51 PM

... ok , now you must!

grigorib - 4-8-2016 at 08:26 AM

Looked at it at the maps....Are flats on the East side rideable?
River/Inlets on each side of the island = sharks on each side?

PHREERIDER - 4-8-2016 at 09:01 AM

all frontside is flat some small wave and roller at hi tide.

in general backside is a no , only on west wind southern tip makes nice spot on rising tide, and we have gone behind maybe 1/2 mile around southern end.

but in general front stay flat with ramps at center sand bar, the pic above is frontside.

its a small island going north to St. Simons is quick couple tacks on the water , there are more frontside flats/ and shouls to ride there.

i have ridden from cumberland to little St. Simons its all same , just easy and fun at frontside sand bar

NW wind is kinda of zero here/and there.

could go on backside?, yes , but launch would be sketch , oyster beds and stuff...plus heavy current really to be avoided.

we have large diurnal tides 8/9ft. and on the ends of the island can be deadly heavy current at times,

most breeze is on shore, side shore on frontside, totally wide open fun spot

last year was the heaviest shark season EVER and yes the ends of the island are deep and shark breeding/nursey area.

i sessioned yesterday in similiar spot , out on a sandbar , i sit down on shallow sand bar spot for a break 3 ft shark (black tip ) swims right up to me , pretty common sight. they want the jellyfish which are earlier this year and super heavy.

its a bit shallow for foiling, high tide maybe, but by then wind peak has dropped, and generally blow out from full on session.

fun spot, come on down!

Kamikuza - 4-8-2016 at 06:19 PM

Apparently sharks like foils -- there have been several chases recorded. Some think the movement interests them, others that the shape is like a ray. Either way -- nope. Nope nope nope.

Flyfish - 4-8-2016 at 07:40 PM

You know, I've kinda wondered about that. My problem is that I spend a whole lotta time in the water while I'm foiling. AND, my locals aren't the little guys. They're the 14 foot man in the grey suit.

PHREERIDER - 4-9-2016 at 07:01 AM

i think vibration may attract, not sure . rays and skates are super common here and definitely see ray/skate association.

yes at this point , in the water alot as well.

there ws a 2500# tiger caught/tagged right off the island here couple weeks ago. also a tracked and "know local" 3600# tagged great white in and out of the sound past couple years..mary lee is the ID on ocearch, quite the traveller!

...and past three days has been blasting TT supersessions , alas phoil has been bumped for the moment, but seabreeze setups are on the way.

grigorib - 4-12-2016 at 09:41 PM

I'm going to OBX and hope to try a foil on a short mast. If that works on shallow it'll be the "door killer" for me. Except giving rides to my kids on the door.

PHREERIDER - 4-13-2016 at 05:27 AM

very nice man, 5-10 hours there and you'll be foil master!

yesterday was the first day of no wind and a needed break!

its been too heavy for foiling here the past week or so. should get a few rides in next couple days.

cool G , have a good time...BTW I would be cautious with the shallows a short mast is what you want. maybe use your Lift if you go frontside, breaking it in shallow would be a sad day! get some guidance from local to stay out of super shallow spots...kinda assumed you would be using a demo set up there, an off shore day there really drains the backside and makes it even more shallow. you are going to make a TON of progress!

PHREERIDER - 4-18-2016 at 07:57 AM

well progress has stalled on foil use ....but theres good news!

the sessions have been non-stop 9m supersessions, and in no way were foil friendly.

maybe score some foil practice in couple days.

ssayre - 4-18-2016 at 04:51 PM

Great your getting some good sessions in. No wind here for few days but been hitting the concrete parks early morning on the board. Really filling in the gaps well

PHREERIDER - 4-18-2016 at 05:08 PM

right on, grateful for the breeze, grateful for projects to drive me through the gaps!

those folks in subway didn't even know a street-kite guru was in their midst, :ninja:

ssayre - 4-18-2016 at 05:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

right on, grateful for the breeze, grateful for projects to drive me through the gaps!

those folks in subway didn't even know a street-kite guru was in their midst, :ninja:

Flyfish - 4-18-2016 at 08:07 PM

My foil progress has stalled to. But, I have a pretty cool new toy to play with instead:

Pretty stoked on the new job! Last week of training!

PHREERIDER - 4-19-2016 at 04:58 AM

Man that's deluxe!

Flyfish - 5-15-2016 at 06:48 PM

Got back on the foil today. Pretty good day. Super mellow wind and waves today so MUCH easier learning day.
Started off kinda frustrating session but finished day with pretty consistent 100 yard foil rides in both directions.

lesson of the day:

Maintain Thy Airspeed, Lest The Ground Rise Up And Smite Thee.

Well, that's at least a pilots 1st commandment. But yes it's just as true for foil boarding!
I had such a fear of overspeeding that I kept going too slow. I'd engage the foil, it would fly for a couple of feet, then stall. Today I found the magic speed that the foil seems to love. So now, I was attaining that speed before engaging the foil. Once I felt the right speed, little back foot pressure, the immediately back to front. Worked like a charm.

Kamikuza - 5-15-2016 at 07:23 PM

Same. I'd ride around as slow as possible and would vent a lot. Gotta get used to the speed and controlling it. It was about that time that I discovered a wider stance is the ticket: you can lunge more and get more weight in the front, then drive upwind hard and hold the speed.

I've found that never being "locked in" is helpful: always be moving the board up and down a tiny bit, carving tiny S-turns.

I had two very light wind sessions this week. Almost perfectly flat water, made working on surface foot changes much easier. All was going well until I dropped then Speed3 21 and discovered the wind was so light I couldn't relaunch at all

. Que the swim in . . . The next session was lighter again, but this time I avoided the far end of the beach and when in dropped the kite, I was in chest-deep water so I could just get it up. Then called it a day :cool:

Pretty wild to be riding at sprinting speed when the wind is only a couple of knots

PHREERIDER - 5-16-2016 at 05:15 AM

my foil practice has stalled! plenty of sessions , just not good for practice so i think.

excellent points guys , definitely have felt "the running speed " effortless BUT fast!

if i use the smaller kite i'm sure most of my problems would be less.

a marginal TT day and switch to a smaller kite ...once i do it i feel it will be instant improvement. landboard just keeps calling.

Flyfish - 5-25-2016 at 08:41 PM

Massive improvement today!!!
Straight up ridding constantly in both directions. Sooooo stoked! First day I can truely say was fun.
Lesson of the day:
Don't try to start up right in front of an approaching swell. Throws everything off at this stage.

I found today that the hardest thing for me today was getting the foil up to speed. I was a bit underpowered and kept floundering on my starts. I think maybe my board does not have enough volume for my abilities at this point. I'm not going to change anything for now because I'm nailing it and don't want any new variables.

But I will say:
Our G10 foil wings work killer!
Up to this point I had vague doubts in the back of my head saying "is it me or my rig that I made?"
No question: it was me. The wings are killer. No problems with stability, directional control, or speed. They even will recover if you cavitate them out of the surface. It's all rider imput.

Stoke!

PHREERIDER - 5-26-2016 at 05:53 AM

Hell yeah man! Just takes time!

I already have enough positive rides, though short, that confirm solid build. I KNOW it's me.

It's a narrow point of balance and so sensitive. Conidtions selection and chronic "too much choice" is large hurdle for me . Great man ! Keep rocking it

Kamikuza - 5-26-2016 at 06:52 PM

Went out the day before yesterday with the short setting on the rear wing . . . I greatly prefer the longer setting. And riding in lighter wind!

PHREERIDER - 5-27-2016 at 05:24 AM

great point KK, like a short skate board ..it gets squirrely pretty quick !

Flyfish - 5-27-2016 at 07:00 AM

Hey Kami,
I might have a solution to your mast problem. I'm posting it here because I don't want the peanut gallery to see it. The reason is I got a proto type mast from the head of LF kiteboarding. I had a couple of conversations with him and he was adamant that the proto type he was sending me "would break" at the mast plate weld. They learned to reinforce the joint by putting the coller sleeve there. So, I took my mast to my buddy who owns a machine shop and asked him to put some sort of coller on it. He agreed that the weld would break if left un supported. But to reinforce it, He just pressed in four pieces of metal inside the mast. We didn't realize how thin the mast material was until it bulged out. I fully thought it wouldn't work. But it does. I'm pretty convinced that it won't break. I've run it into the ground numerous times.

I hope this can help your mast.

Kamikuza - 5-27-2016 at 05:12 PM

Thanks for that! How did he get the metal up in there?!

I just got an email from LF--they said not to weld the mast/collar as it'll weaken it. I had a suspicion it might but I know nothing about welding, so

Their advice was to tighten the bolt, but I'm paralyzed with fear at shearing off the bolts up in there.

They annoying thing is their collar/plate is $70 but the mast is almost $500. Compared with other brands that are $100 or so

I'm eyeing up the Slingshot Hover Glide . . .

Kamikuza - 5-27-2016 at 06:52 PM

Oh yeah--don't feed Revhead any more LF pictures :megan:

Kamikuza - 5-28-2016 at 03:40 AM

PHREERIDER - 5-28-2016 at 06:39 PM

sweet ! champion shot!

on mast plate i used 3 bolts 8M x 50mm, still felt it needs buttressing, which i may add,

crack an 8M , times 3! the AL would split/bend first !

welding the hollow thin extrusion just makes it brittle .

i have solid mast 6061, its weighty but solid , think its fine. the hollow mast on LF is not what i expected, esp. at connect point

rtz - 5-28-2016 at 06:44 PM

Check out the mast adapters: http://americankiteboarding.com/products.asp?cat=Hydrofoil

Kamikuza - 5-28-2016 at 07:27 PM

I've been looking around different mast/plates but the issue seems to be the hole to mount the fuse

I'm going to shim the mast then get a Hover Glide and SS board...

Flyfish - 5-29-2016 at 10:33 PM

My buddy just machined a few pieces of metal to fit the hollow slots and pounded them in there. But he machined them to fit so tight that they bulged the thin extrusion.
Like I say, it seems to be taking my abuse!
Nice shot with your 19 meter speed!

Kamikuza - 5-29-2016 at 10:46 PM

So he fit them then welded the strut?

That's the 21. People are calling BS on me at the kiteforum, but it was 4 to 6 knots when I launched and went riding. If you can get up on the board, get it moving and keep it moving, you can ride upwind. Drop the kite and you're swimming though

Flyfish - 5-30-2016 at 08:32 AM

No. Actually. That weld to the base plate is the proto type of how they were initially welding the mast to the base plate. I'm not sure if yours is welded there also, but it doesn't really matter. The pieces of metal are just pounded in to transfer the load down the mast and relive that simple weld joint. The coller that LF has now is really doing the exact same but just externally rather than internally like mine.
As far as welding the pieces of metal, no need if they are tight.

Flyfish - 6-12-2016 at 08:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

Ride the foil, not the board. You gotta get your head around that so you don't keep trying to edge the board

Such great advice! Making more progress. Fully riding upwind and now downwind, but no gybes. At my stage, Kami's advice of "ride the foil not the board" helped a ton!

New job starts on Tuesday! Pretty much locked down for the rest of summer so I'm stoked I made this progress now. Feels like I have a solid foundation when I come back to it.

PHREERIDER - 6-13-2016 at 07:22 PM

nice progress man! very heavy week of kite action , today first day no kite since last monday. i got some foil action time in last week . upwind foil after many slams! not very high but up and stable, some up and down still but not as much kinda pops up soon as i'm on top. the onshore winds here just demand , get up! get out! after plowing the bottom countless times the homebrew foil still remains solid! plus been dragging ALL (TT, ATB and foil) my junk on bike cart , so its ALL right there! ready to go . low hassle makes it happen.

first, the rear foot on the mast works great . IF you want NO foil action ...foot in strap now i can finally add more balance definitely huge step for me. i think at first in the rear strap was crazy sensitive til i got more feel and control... just behind the mast but in the strap. no where near as senstive as when i started. once that element balanced in for me , controling the up and down thing seemed to fade. still the beatings in the progress continue. just separated by a fraction more time.

a side shore day would be easier but for now definitely stoked on gaining some skill!

damn right about ride the foil !

Flyfish - 6-13-2016 at 08:30 PM

Yo Buddy!
Fear not! You WILL foil!
I say this because I just had an EPIC day! I realized I've been riding way overpowered. Today was super light maybe 10-12 knots. I threw up a 10 meter and it was perfect! So nice not yo fight the kite. I rode 3-4 miles down the beach and back.
I think I have roughly 10-15 sessions not total. Still falling but mainly when I get tired. No chance for anything remotely similar to gybe but I'm riding swell and turning about 90 degrees.
Here's what I know:
I seriously did the back foot super far forward, but what actually helped a ton was to actually move my rear foot back! Then just commit to pressing the front foot. This way I felt way more control over the direction of the board with the rear foot and still not porpusing because of front foot pressure. I kinda think this is big. I'm not sure advice of rear foot forward is such good advice because you lose such control over the board.

This really helped me break through:
1. Moving the rear foot back.
2. Committing to front foot pressure.
3. Committing to a fair amount of speed before I eased up on the front foot pressure and began to foil.

Once I did those three things I seriously had a break through.

Now, I can stand up and pretty much immediately "hop" the foil up with almost no speed then use the height that I popped up to "push the board" back down toward the water (think like the foil is ridding downhill) to gain speed.

Good luck bro! Be proud of our home made foils!

I'll only have a few days here and there for the next 4 months so I want to hear you rock it!

Kami: thanks a ton too! Let's see more videos! I'll need some stoke!

Kamikuza - 6-13-2016 at 08:32 PM

I'd lose the rear strap.

Now you're up and riding, you'll be working out the balance and you're going to be falling in strange ways. I've tweaked my ankle a little, and a local guy hurt his badly, falling and being trapped in the rear strap.

Controlling the height is a vital skill, as is controlling the speed. Keep loose, and keep the foil moving--especially when the water is "rough". I find the ocean to be more turbulent below the surface, so the board is always moving around and you need to be loose and ready to react.

Glad to hear the foil is holding up. Local buddy hit the bottom and lost his fuse and wings, as the mast sheared right on the connection point. Expensive and new carbon hobbies

My wings are getting worn down, I need to think if a solution...

Kamikuza - 6-13-2016 at 09:01 PM

Moving the rear foot back some means you've spread your base out, so more stable front to rear, and when you "lunge" sideways to weight the front, you get more of your weight over that foot *and* you're more stable.

With the foot back, on the LF wing set, you can also get more pitch control by pushing on the rear, which you can't do with the foot on the mast. Might be different for different foils . . .

I'm on 38 sessions now

This week was a 4-hour light wind ride at the ocean and yesterday about 3 hours at the lake, switching between 3 different kites and from under- to over-powered. My favorite sessions have been on the 21 in very little wind, with the surface of the lake almost flat . . . flying! I still prefer a slightly bigger kite, as I like to lean back against it and load it all up, as opposed to standing up on the board and working the kite.

Jibing is a lot easer than it looks, changing feet a lot harder. Downloads are the best way to jibe but make the most catastrophic slams when speed control fails. Took me ages to sort the feet changes out -- now I'd bet on successful touch-down foot swaps and come out slightly ahead

ssayre - 7-9-2016 at 05:09 PM

PHREERIDER - 7-10-2016 at 06:17 AM

thanks Ssayre Kai is always on the leading edge of action, the SUP action looks preet good too!

Windstruck - 7-10-2016 at 09:33 AM

I didn't know you could pump a phoil like that. OUTSTANDING! Thanks for the post Sean.

ssayre - 7-10-2016 at 12:27 PM

Yeah, I had no idea you could use one for regular surfing or pumping. Pretty cool being able to pump to the next wave. Those things look magical if / when you can master them.

Windstruck - 7-10-2016 at 12:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Yeah, I had no idea you could use one for regular surfing or pumping. Pretty cool being able to pump to the next wave. Those things look magical if / when you can master them.

Agreed. Can't help but have safety on my mind today. Those things could do a number on other surfers in the lineup (or yourself). Paddling out and getting pulled "over the falls" could prove quite the shark attracting event.

grigorib - 7-24-2016 at 07:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

I'd lose the rear strap.
...

So are you foiling without rear strap or complete strapless?
How far back is you back foot position behind the mast?

skimtwashington - 7-24-2016 at 11:37 AM

I see this as a big leap in surfing-unlike anything before- and changing it so surfing may never be the same.

Exemplary is the pumping....and what you can now do on a surf board.

Then again... I don't know how a foil handles big waves and may not be for that..?

Can he pump for long periods.....and on flat water(how would you get started w/o boat pull on lake?)...without any wave/ tide/current as momentum?

Kamikuza - 7-24-2016 at 06:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

I don't know why you'd bother with foil on big waves, but Laird does just fine. And has for years.

This is the other problem with foils in surf:

Kamikuza - 7-24-2016 at 06:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by grigorib

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

I'd lose the rear strap.
...

So are you foiling without rear strap or complete strapless?
How far back is you back foot position behind the mast?

Just without a rear. Lot of easier to water start, getting and holding the board in position, with a single strap.

Back foot tends to be . . . right in the middle of where the rear strap would be

which is behind the mast. Of course all foils and riders are different, but I find with the rear foot further back, the advantages are a wider base, more dynamic control over foil balance and directional control, and ease of popping and holding the foil up. The disadvantage is it's more twitchy when you learning, but you'll overcome that with good technique very quickly. Assuming my technique is good

Kamikuza - 8-26-2016 at 05:22 PM

My technique might be good, but my judgement is really poor.

Was having fun with fast and powered gybes until I ran it right into the shoreline. Slammed into the bottom again, but from riding rather than stalling and venting.

Unfortunately, the result was the same--bent fuselage and mast. It wasn't till I packed up that I noticed I'd cracked my board though

Flyfish - 8-26-2016 at 09:58 PM

Ahh!
Sorry to hear that! You bent an aluminum mast?

I've been off the water for a while because of new job, but can't wait to get back on the foil!

Kamikuza - 8-27-2016 at 04:08 AM

Due to the force on the wing, the tip of the mast was splayed out which allowed the fuselage to bend...

Hit the water so hard the board cracked too, which bugs me the most. Got some whiplash as well

neck still stiff three days later!

I have the Slingshot Hover Glide foil only, but I'm afraid of their rail mounts on the boards as I've heard of a few breaking. Tried it with my board but the lift is so strong and aggressive that I can't ride with the front strap...

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