Power Kite Forum

Single Skin Proto from MonJet Kiteboarding

Cheddarhead - 1-7-2016 at 03:55 PM

Another company coming out with a single skin..:D

https://youtu.be/irT5quPTGVs

Windstruck - 1-7-2016 at 04:58 PM

Long live single skins!

Bryan_Monjet - 1-21-2016 at 01:05 AM

Hi,

My name is Bryan and I am the designer of Monjet Kiteboarding.
You can follow us here: www.facebook.com/monjetkiteboarding
The website will be soon online.
If you have any questions about the design, please feel free to ask anything

Best regards,

Bryan

Feyd - 1-21-2016 at 06:00 AM

Welcome Bryan,

I've been following your work on FB and other forums. I really like what you've done thus far and am looking forward to seeing where you go with this. I think single skins are a way to bring more people into kiting and kiting into more places and I'm glad to see others working on this.


Bladerunner - 1-21-2016 at 04:01 PM

Welcome Bryan,

Please keep us in the loop. Lots of folks on this forum are interested in the single skins. :thumbup:

Bryan_Monjet - 2-2-2016 at 01:31 PM

Thanks,
Our website is now online http://www.monjetkiteboarding.com/

abkayak - 2-2-2016 at 04:33 PM

Very cool...would love to see a water relaunch vid if you could

skimtwashington - 2-2-2016 at 05:38 PM


"Remember going to the beach for a kite session, but the wind was to low?

We share this frustration so we have found a solution. Just a normal sized kite with lots of power.

A hybrid single skin kite with depower, which is also water relaunchable.."


The kite looks very, very nice but...


If it can do a water re-launch, Why does marketing video not include water re-launch when that's a stand out feature?

Anyone..?


3shot - 2-2-2016 at 06:37 PM

Yes please!!!:cool:

ssayre - 2-2-2016 at 06:47 PM

A comparison to the only other known similar kite. Peak 2 9m is 7.6 projected area and 4.2 ar

This kite is 7.85 projected area and 4.8 ar

Just by appearances, it looks like a special kite and I wish it success. Hopefully one will land stateside soon. Steve?

abkayak - 2-2-2016 at 07:04 PM

In search of...ssayre
Pbly won't be able to sleep tonight

ssayre - 2-2-2016 at 07:12 PM

:D

ColinW - 2-2-2016 at 07:28 PM

Interesting how the wing tips flare back (out?), and looks like lots of bridle near the tips as well... Anybody know why ( aerodynamically speaking)?

Windstruck - 2-2-2016 at 08:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Hopefully one will land stateside soon. Steve?


Hey, I resemble that remark! ;) Truth be told the kite I really want next is a 9m Ozone Frenzy V10 with Re-Ride. Re-Ride is da bomb for Snowkiting.

Truth be told I feel a little scalded after pulling the trigger on two V-1.0 single skins last year. They will remain unnamed in this post, but those that know the evolution of my quiver likely know what kites I am referring to.

Doesn't mean I don't have the Monjet site bookmarked! :P

bigE123 - 2-3-2016 at 04:27 AM

Nice work Bryan!

Quote:
@Colin Interesting how the wing tips flare back (out?), and looks like lots of bridle near the tips as well... Anybody know why ( aerodynamically speaking)?


I think the tips maybe "winglets" check out most commercial plane wings, they have been around for a long time and seem to be coming back, something to do with minimising upper/lower wind turbulance and increasing efficiency.

Quote:
@ ssayre A comparison to the only other known similar kite. Peak 2 9m is 7.6 projected area and 4.2 ar


I'm a little bit unsure how they calculated those figures, here's the Peak at a stated 4.2AR:


Here is my 5m, AR 4.3 at a projected area 4.13m and AR 3.12:

very different shapes, I think the Peaks' AR is a bit over estimated.

ssayre - 2-3-2016 at 04:45 AM

@BigE, the peak you have pictured is a peak 1 9m. A beautiful kite and one I own :D , but the specs I gave were for a peak 2 which is different.

The Peak 1 you have pictured has a projected area of 8.1 and a 4 ar. Or at least according to Flysurfer.

ssayre - 2-3-2016 at 05:09 AM

The wingtip flare on NINOX and it's profile looked familiar to me. It looks a lot like the profile of the FS sonic. Only based on video. I've not seen either in person obviously.

bigE123 - 2-3-2016 at 05:13 AM

:D oops what a difference .2 makes!

Still like these colours!

Feyd - 2-3-2016 at 08:56 AM

For perspective in terms of new Peak ar and old. Here's the 4m Peak 2 laying on the 6m Peak 1. Considerable difference in AR when you have a kite 4m smaller but with the same wingspan.


10827916_980852665276489_4708805137067282376_o.jpg - 102kB

skimtwashington - 2-3-2016 at 05:41 PM

Anyone see this on Facebook page?....





Rough detail, but I'm thinking...Full length nylon rods...?.

If it's water re-launchable.....that is how I can conceive it working. If so, I think I get it.

Still want to see it re-launch on water...as do all.


Well bigE123....ready to make a kite will full length nylon rod stiffeners?:P

B-Roc - 2-3-2016 at 06:09 PM

If its using nylon rods we'll see how prone they are to splintering or popping out the LE or TE when the kite is slammed into the ground either nose first in a crash or tail first in an aggressive landing.

lasrocas - 2-4-2016 at 12:19 AM

Nylon rods/strips ,
i am sure something similar has been done before.
come on E spill the beans !!!
your ideas are well ahead of the game.

bigE123 - 2-4-2016 at 01:41 AM

:D :D and another to come soon! Tbh the water re-launch is a big ask for a single skin, for me full length rods are not the answer (just my opinion), not strong enough and the kite LE falls forward when on the ground and is a pain to launch, so to get more strength you're not going to be using nylon and as said above issues with breaking rods or rods pushing through the material on a nose dive. I really do hope Bryan does well with his designs as they do look the business.
I'm a purist with an eye on land only so the less rods / spars the better, I only use them for nose/LE support which does not impact on the kite on the ground and makes a big difference in the air.
Big jump in AR for my current build with an added extra to test out ;-)

Windstruck - 2-4-2016 at 02:15 AM

The nylon rod stiffeners along the leading edge are an interesting concept. I assume they have two primary purposes, both giving the kite's leading edge structure in the air and buoyancy in the water. It appears that these rods are replaceable. Here is a quote from their product page:

"The leading edge will always remain stiff through the nylon rods inserted between every cell."

Just eyeballing the kite there appear to be about 30-35 cells, so I guess that would mean an equal number of short nylon rods. Many short unconnected rods would probably withstand hard nose-first crash landings on land far better than long rods going the length of the kite. A brief write up can be seen here: Ninox

I'm as curious as the rest to see video of a water relaunch of the Ninox. I suppose it is possible to water launch a Peak but I bet the conditions have to be near perfect. Here is the closest thing I found:



My quiver is bursting and I have no intention of giving up my Peak-2s so somebody else stateside is going to have to be the early adopter once this bad-boy hits the market. :cool:

bigE123 - 2-4-2016 at 04:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
The nylon rod stiffeners along the leading edge are an interesting concept. I assume they have two primary purposes, both giving the kite's leading edge structure in the air and buoyancy in the water. It appears that these rods are replaceable. Here is a quote from their product page:

"The leading edge will always remain stiff through the nylon rods inserted between every cell."



I think there is only one primary purpose: to get a smooth stable LE even if the wind drops, seeing that video shows a bonus side, when the kite is laid down the LE is sticking up giving the wind something to catch. As for the rods I'm sure they are simple garden strimmer line.

Windstruck - 2-4-2016 at 07:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bigE123  


I think there is only one primary purpose: to get a smooth stable LE even if the wind drops, seeing that video shows a bonus side, when the kite is laid down the LE is sticking up giving the wind something to catch. As for the rods I'm sure they are simple garden strimmer line.


You are certainly in a far better position to speculate than me about this and I bet you are right. Having put a far amount of time in with the Peak-2s on land and snow, I could see some advantages to making the leading edge a little bit more structured. As you noted, having the LE protrude upward would be pretty slick for getting the kite off the ground, particularly in light wind conditions. Second, the dreaded "tip tuck" that can plague the Peaks might be eliminated with this additional structure.

Bottom line, excellent news that Monjet continues to progress the concept of single skin DP kites! Should it have any modicum of success commercially it might spur on the designers at Flysurfer to create an even better Peak-3.

ssayre - 2-4-2016 at 07:19 AM

I'm with bigE on this. I'm guessing they are similar monofilament like used on peak. Any other type of rods would be ball ache for pack up.

bigE123 - 2-4-2016 at 07:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

Second, the dreaded "tip tuck" that can plague the Peaks might be eliminated with this additional structure.


Ah the dreaded tip-tuck... I don't think is related to the nose supports, from what I've seen of the Peak 1 the supports are fine for the nose, it's more of a bridle issue.

ssayre - 2-4-2016 at 08:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bigE123  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

Second, the dreaded "tip tuck" that can plague the Peaks might be eliminated with this additional structure.


Ah the dreaded tip-tuck... I don't think is related to the nose supports, from what I've seen of the Peak 1 the supports are fine for the nose, it's more of a bridle issue.


Peak 1's didn't suffer from tip tuck that I'm aware of. I have theorized that the tip tuck on the 2's were a side effect of the higher ar and being rushed to production as the 1's were only out 1 year prior. ONLY BASED ON A THEORY in my simple mind

Windstruck - 5-2-2016 at 05:14 AM

I've been keeping track of the Monjet Ninox. It's not quite ready for prime time, but appears to be getting closer. I was on their product page just now:

Monjet Ninox

In a table towards the bottom I saw something interesting I hadn't noticed before (or it's new), viz., a notation of the number of "floaty" cells (3). I didn't see any immediate detail beyond this, but a few "floaty" cells could certainly explain their claim of a water relaunch-able single skin design. Taking another look at their video I can see three cells that look darker and more substantial than the rest (center and about six cells or so from each end). I suspect these are the floaty ones. :cool:

I know there are videos on the web of water launching Peaks but I for one wouldn't dip a Peak in the drink and expect it to rise again.

Feyd - 5-2-2016 at 05:24 AM

Semi-single skin. Or semi closed cell. Always thought it would be simple enough to add pockets for bladders but closed cells would be nice. Depending on how long they hold air.

Three cells don't offer a lot of volume. Loss would be fast. But better than nothing.

Windstruck - 5-2-2016 at 08:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
Semi-single skin. Or semi closed cell. Always thought it would be simple enough to add pockets for bladders but closed cells would be nice. Depending on how long they hold air.

Three cells don't offer a lot of volume. Loss would be fast. But better than nothing.


Agreed Chris. Not sure what to call this kite (single skin, etc.); seems a hybrid design. I'm not jumping all over it with V-1.0. I've gotten burned on both the PL Uniq Quad 1.0 and B-K LongStar V-1.0. Time for others to step up as "first adopter" on this one! :P

Feyd - 5-2-2016 at 11:08 AM

Is it just me or does the bar look really long?

Windstruck - 5-2-2016 at 11:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
Is it just me or does the bar look really long?


Not just you. Several times I've freeze framed the video trying to look at the bar. It does seem odd. Maybe this kite needs a lot of line action to operate in its stated low wind range. While a really long bar can be pain for packing purposes, it is a darn right nucence when seated in a buggy, particularly if you have anything mounted on the down tube that protrudes (GPS, GoPro, water bottle cage, etc).

Feyd - 5-3-2016 at 07:14 AM

A while back I was playing around with an F-Arc that we had installed a bridle on to make it fly with a flatter profile. To get it to turn the bar needed to be big. I wonder if that's the same thing here.

skimtwashington - 5-3-2016 at 07:12 PM


Quote:

I've gotten burned on both the PL Uniq Quad 1.0 and B-K LongStar V-1.0.


I didn't remember if it was posted ...but what was wrong with the LongStars...?

Yeah....... water relaunch w/Peak? Forget it. In the best circumstances it's possible..... But for most of the time I really doubt it.

Until Monjet back their claim and outstanding feature- with an actual video of a water re-launch, no one should give a nickel for one of these if they plan to use on water.



Windstruck - 5-3-2016 at 09:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington  

Quote:

I've gotten burned on both the PL Uniq Quad 1.0 and B-K LongStar V-1.0.


I didn't remember if it was posted ...but what was wrong with the LongStars...?

Yeah....... water relaunch w/Peak? Forget it. In the best circumstances it's possible..... But for most of the time I really doubt it.

Until Monjet back their claim and outstanding feature- with an actual video of a water re-launch, no one should give a nickel for one of these if they plan to use on water.




I'm sure I wrote about this at one point or another, but I was never a fan of the LongStars. I really, really wanted to like them but they just never worked for me.

First, the good part. I think they look fantastic! I love the extended wing profile; they always make me think of Batman. If Batman was into powerkiting the LS would most certainly sit front and center in his quiver.

On the negative side: the five lines were a pain in the seat meat. If you are used to and appreciate the simplicity of the three line NASA Stars then the LSs will likely feel very cumbersome and irritating to set up and put away if you are going to be detaching the lines from the kite each time you pack up.

Second, the LS bar seems to offer the worst of all worlds. You need to fly these kites hooked into a harness if you are going to use Steffen's bar. Once hooked in, 50% of the load goes through the harness hook into your body, but the other half is on your arms all the time. This is bad enough, but made worse by the near constant fussing you need to do for optimal smooth flight. This is no Park and Ride setup.

If you try and devise various schemes to get away from his 50/50 loading bar there just doesn't seem to be good setups that don't result in the kite doing an awful amount of backflying. Once a LS starts to fly backwards it is near impossible to get it going right again until the back stall has run its course across the entire wind window.

The kites just don't seem to fly as well as the NASA Stars. No way around it, they just don't seem to fly as well.

On the positive side the kite is a bonefide four line flyer (5-line really) and as such is proficient at reverse launches. Easier to get the kite off the ground upside down than some of the Stars.

Finally, it just doesn't seem to have any better upwind performance than the Stars.

So there you have it. I'm just not a fan. Wanted to be but in the end just couldn't be.

Windstruck - 4-16-2017 at 06:34 AM

Inching ever closer....




eric67m - 4-16-2017 at 07:46 AM

I saw this the other day.

https://youtu.be/n3dzRPZIWCY

Windstruck - 4-16-2017 at 08:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m  
I saw this the other day.

https://youtu.be/n3dzRPZIWCY


Same video! :moon:

eric67m - 4-16-2017 at 10:43 AM

I apologize, my computer opened this thread to the first page where people are commenting about no water relaunch video. I just saw that video was posted yesterday. I did not see the second page until now...

Windstruck - 4-16-2017 at 01:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m  
I apologize, my computer opened this thread to the first page where people are commenting about no water relaunch video. I just saw that video was posted yesterday. I did not see the second page until now...


No worries! The larger question is when on earth is this kite going to be available and will it actually fill a niche? I don't do wind powered water sports so I don't see the point for me personally, but who knows, maybe there are a bunch of folks out there just begging for a light weight water flyer for low wind days. If yes, then I would think they need to bump up the sizes quite a bit. The original prototype was 9m, not this 6m kite. I'd think you'd want to be in the 12m - 15m size zone to get enough grunt on low wind days. Once the wind is high enough to make a 6m the right choice there are plenty of good water options out there.

I noticed that the video showed a beautiful nose down position in the water. Often times when SS kites come out of the sky it is due to lack of sufficient wind. The kite may well collapse and hit the water in a wet mess, closed cells be damned. That's the way Peaks and LS2s often fall.

I'm also curious how the closed cells are inflated. Pump? If yes then why not go all the way with an LEI for all its advantages. Weight would be one major factor, thus the call for bigger sizes.

:karate:

soliver - 4-16-2017 at 04:26 PM

It looks like a hybrid between an LEI and a closed cell foil. I'm guessing that the 2 baffles on the front inflate a large bladder in the leading edge similar to an LEI.... just a guess from what you can see of the kite.

Feyd - 4-16-2017 at 04:28 PM

The point beyond water relaunch would be added stability in wind shifts. There are 2 intakes at the leading edge for inflation. Since it's still in proto stage it will take time to see the bigger sizes. Scaling a kite is a huge project. But if you are going to make a one off, you make a small one. Easier, less sewing, less expensive and less risky. Give the poor guy some time. He's doing some pretty impressive work.
;)

Demoknight - 4-17-2017 at 12:58 PM

Yeah scaling kites is tough. Makers need to tweak the kites at each size to maintain the same flight characteristics across the range. It has to do with the myth that a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly according to our understanding of aerodynamics. The fact is that scale changes the way airfoils react with the air. If you scale a bumble bee up to the size of a person or a car, then I doubt it would fly. The scale matters so much.

Windstruck - 4-17-2017 at 02:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  


Give the poor guy some time. He's doing some pretty impressive work.



I didn't intend to come off harsh. I'm personally thrilled he is innovating in the SS DP lane! I just went on their website and see that they are now looking to release versions of this kite in 6m and 10m sizes. That's a nice little quiver. :thumbup:

Ed Cline - 4-18-2017 at 12:57 PM

Line up for "Dibs on Steve's LS2's. Unless the Playa takes them first. :crazy:

Windstruck - 4-18-2017 at 02:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline  
Line up for "Dibs on Steve's LS2's. Unless the Playa takes them first. :crazy:


Hey! I resemble that remark. :evil:

Randy - 4-18-2017 at 07:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington  

Quote:

I've gotten burned on both the PL Uniq Quad 1.0 and B-K LongStar V-1.0.


I didn't remember if it was posted ...but what was wrong with the LongStars...?

Yeah....... water relaunch w/Peak? Forget it. In the best circumstances it's possible..... But for most of the time I really doubt it.

Until Monjet back their claim and outstanding feature- with an actual video of a water re-launch, no one should give a nickel for one of these if they plan to use on water.




Video's aren't all that compelling. Take enough video and you can show even a NPW water re-launch.:D