Power Kite Forum

Size Matters!

xanthiax - 21-6-2015 at 02:28 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm very new to this. I was looking to get my first kite. Im looking at powerkiting with a view of progressing onto landboards.

I've settled on the HQ Rush 4 after spending all weekend looking into different kites etc.

My question is this:

Is there much of a power difference between the 3m and the 3.5m kites?

I was thinking of the 3m because I can get it for a good price, but am I going to regret not buying the 3.5 in a few months?

ssayre - 21-6-2015 at 03:15 PM

if you get hooked, in a few months you will have very different kites than the rush series of kites. Either size will do for now to learn.

xanthiax - 21-6-2015 at 04:04 PM

Will a 3m pull a board? What kind of power difference would you expect between the two?

Thanks for the reply

ssayre - 21-6-2015 at 04:24 PM

Power is only relative to wind speed. Both kites will pull a board in enough wind. The only difference would be you would need a tiny bit more wind for 1/2 meter difference in kite.

Windstruck - 21-6-2015 at 04:31 PM

xantiax - 3M can pull you out of your socks if the wind is right. While you are certainly correct that "size matters", clearly "wind matters" more. If you end up getting into this sport/hobby (and we certainly hope you do) you will find that the questions are far more involved than simply "size" or "wind". There are different types of kites, so called Fixed Bridles (FB), Depowered (DP), single skin, double skin, Leading Edge Inflatable (LEI), etc. Oh yes, and you will want to become familiar with Aspect Ratios (ARs) of different kites as that very much affects their performance. Don't forget NASA Power Wings, or NPWs, and please appreciate that line length can really change performance. Did you consider flying from handles or straped in with a harness with a bar? Oh yes, there are a lot of different kinds of bars. :P

Through all this, please remember that while having fun is the primary goal, staying safe will let you keep having fun, not to mention earning money to support your new obsession. Kite killers, helmet, elbow pads, knee pads, cup (just kidding). You won't need these things until you really need them, and I mean need them right now! Hey, I had my first vertically ascending OBE today (out of buggy experience). :evil: Hello! (12M Peak2 in a good gust while coming about for those interested).

Sage words by ssayre - learn on pretty much anything and if the hook sits in the side of your jaw you'll be trading and accumulating like the best of us. Take a gander at the autosignatures throughout the PKF and you'll see that most of us have many kites for many different reasons and occasions. Welcome to the Monkey House!!!:lol:

Motives matter more than size!

skimtwashington - 21-6-2015 at 04:58 PM

The HQ Rush series is commonly used as a trainer for beginner kite surfers to learn flying skills as a step toward the water and their big 'real' kite. It is then abandonded.

Those who used it as a first power kite and got into buggying also generally abandon this 3 line kite for 4-line or a depower model kite.

If you are looking for traction to move in the discplines of power kiting that are not kite surfing you may be better off to skip the Rush and get a 4 line fixed bridal to learn on.

If you definitely plan to go on the water(kitesurf)... or want to get into depower kites right away, the Rush is a fine choice to start.

Feyd - 21-6-2015 at 05:24 PM

I dunno that I would agree that one would abondon the Rush any more than a 4 line FB 4m. The Rush works great as a high wind fixed bridle. The slower turn rate can be a real comfort when the wind gets wrathy. And the things can take a beating.

But this is academic. Yes traditionally people started out with fixed bridle trainers. These days with several options for depowerable trainers, unless your budget prohibits it, I recommend a depowerable trainer. They're a little more but the cost/benefit is well within your favor. And as you progress and move up to depows it ellimnates any confusion that many expirience when going from the trainer to bigger and higher performance kites.


xanthiax - 22-6-2015 at 01:12 AM

Thanks for the input guys,

Yeah, I understand it is more complicated than I first thought when I started reading into this on Friday. This is mainly why I have picked the Rush series.

it comes with Bars, kitekiller and good reviews. Plus its a perfect price point for me to mess around with and see if I want to take this further.

My friend has a board so I can borrow that when we go out.

I'm glad there is not a massive difference between the 3 / 3.5m kites.

Taking all in to consideration, would any of you suggest a different kite?

Please keep in mind I have no idea what I am doing, I don't understand how to set these things up and I dont want to break my teeth :)

If you have suggestions I will happily consider. Failing that, I will buy the rush tomorrow.

Thanks again

Windstruck - 22-6-2015 at 02:59 AM

xanthiax - I've not flown it myself but just watched a couple of company-produced promotional videos online. The kite looks fine for your purposes. The third line aspect is good as it will introduce you to the concept of "kite killers" (the wrist strap safety system) and will allow you to practice reverse launches and letting go of the bar when things get out of hand (which they can fast with any kite; just wait, you'll see).

Good luck! It's a fun sport and all of us can remember I'm sure our early adventures. My suggestion is to keep the kite in really good shape and practice good packing techniques. You may well be wanting this kite to be in Cherry condition in a few months when you want to sell it to put a small dent into your down payment for your real kite quiver. Don't laugh, you're next! :evil:

xanthiax - 22-6-2015 at 04:12 AM

Haha,

Thanks Steve, Will take that under advisement :) I have other hobbies that I've got 'the bug' for, so I understand where you're coming from.

well then, decision made. Thank you all for the advice.

Heres to my new adventure :))

xanthiax - 22-6-2015 at 04:37 AM

As an afterthought,

would a HQ Crossfire 4m be to big?

ssayre - 22-6-2015 at 04:43 AM

are you riding grass or sand. What's your weight? no kite is too big or small. You'll need a few to use in different winds. 3 meter is best to start to give the widest range to safely learn.

xanthiax - 22-6-2015 at 05:00 AM

Grass mainly but have access to sand too.

But 180lb I'm a big boy ;)

Will stick with the 3m for now then. .

Getting carried away here I think heh

abkayak - 22-6-2015 at 05:06 AM

i am a rush 3m/300 disciple....thats my 1st..you never forget your 1st
no regrets..

acampbell - 22-6-2015 at 06:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by xanthiax  

My question is this:

Is there much of a power difference between the 3m and the 3.5m kites?


No.

Your next kite then might be a 5m something. Then you start to build a quiver for a variety of winds.

Demoknight - 22-6-2015 at 08:04 AM

Ultimately if you stick to kiting, you will build a quiver. I don't know of any kite boarder, land boarder, or buggier that uses just one kite. The one you start with might get less use once you get comfortable enough to buy another in a larger size, but you will be glad you have it when the winds pick up and make the larger sizes unsafe. The least number of kites I think you can get away with really is two, and that is only if both are depower. High wind days you will be getting out your small dog of a kite because it is tame, which is what you want when the wind is not tame. Low wind days will see you getting out more of your higher performance high-aspect kites in larger sizes.

ssayre - 22-6-2015 at 08:07 AM

I knew a guy once that used 1 kite 90% of the time. I think his name was Errol and it was a 12m charger :D

xanthiax - 22-6-2015 at 08:09 AM

Thank you everyone!

riffclown - 22-6-2015 at 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by xanthiax  
As an afterthought,

would a HQ Crossfire 4m be to big?



First it's one of my favorite kites on the planet BUT,,, the Crossfire 4.0 is a higher aspect ratio kite and generally not a beginner kite. You CAN learn on it but you have to be very careful..

Demoknight - 22-6-2015 at 07:42 PM

Well, it is true that my Charger is my most used kite, but that is becoming less true lately as I have flown my Speed more than anything recently. The Charger just has a huge wind range, but it doesn't really turn on until 12mph+, and on those days, I will fly the 19m Speed 3 until I feel just silly overpowered with it. I feel so safe under that BBB and it hasn't spanked me yet, where the 12m Charger has yanked me at least two times that I remember vividly. One was static flying, and one was a straight downwinder on the buggy that was caused by some nasty west winds at JIBE this year.

xanthiax - 23-6-2015 at 01:48 AM

One more question....

So the idea is, Im gonna practice static and then jump on a board for some nice ground work.

I saw a new HQ Alpha 3.5 going quite cheap but it has handles not a bar..

Would you suggest I am better off with the HQ RUSH with the bar or the HQ ALPHA with the quad handles?

xanthiax - 23-6-2015 at 01:57 AM

ahh to add, the Alpha is 3.5 with handles and the Rush is a rush V 300 with a Bar.

Its your call guys, tell me which one to buy and I will commit!

Theres only £30 in the price..

abkayak - 23-6-2015 at 05:02 AM

my opinion doesnt matter but here goes
you want to get the hang of this quick get a fb kite on a bar
you want to become a pilot (tethered) get a kite w/ handles
ohhh...that Alpha can be flown w/ a bar as well....so there's that

xanthiax - 23-6-2015 at 05:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
my opinion doesnt matter but here goes
you want to get the hang of this quick get a fb kite on a bar
you want to become a pilot (tethered) get a kite w/ handles
ohhh...that Alpha can be flown w/ a bar as well....so there's that


FB kite? - Noob here. don't speak da lingo :)

So, your saying Alpha and upgrade to bar later? Plus Alpha is 4 lines too yeah?

To many options, my head hurts

abkayak - 23-6-2015 at 05:24 AM

fixed bridle as opposed to depowerable (dp)...no the bar is a downgrade in my opinion
you will always have better control w/ handles...but you might like a bar around latter on to hand your kite
to another noob to get them started out or maybe initially for landboard or skis

xanthiax - 23-6-2015 at 05:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
fixed bridle as opposed to depowerable (dp)...no the bar is a downgrade in my opinion
you will always have better control w/ handles...but you might like a bar around latter on to hand your kite
to another noob to get them started out or maybe initially for landboard or skis


So, knowing what you know now. If you where me, what would you pick?

Rush V 300 with bar @ £160
Alpha 3.5 with quad handles @£125

abkayak - 23-6-2015 at 05:46 AM

hummmp..........idk i like all kites:D
go to coastalwindsports.com and read up my friend...then thank Angus for taking the time
but 4lines are the end game.

Devoted - 23-6-2015 at 05:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  

you want to become a pilot (tethered) get a kite w/ handles


This. :thumbup:
There is so much more to get out off a kite if there are handles involved.

:smilegrin:
But I'm old and therefore pro old skool :evil::karate:

xanthiax - 23-6-2015 at 07:00 AM

Right,

Im going for it!

HQ ALPHA 3.5:

Its cheaper - cant be bad right?

Good reviews

4 Lines - better control.

Anyone got any further input before I commit?!

Outside of that; Thank you very much everyone for the advice and information that have been given here. It has been invaluable.

I will be back with updates of my broken arms and missing teeth :)

Feyd - 23-6-2015 at 10:36 AM

Although I agree kites on handles are inherently more nimble than a bar there are handling skills, like over bar steering (reaching up and manually steering buy grabbing a leader) or sheeting in while you steer that put a bar in the same performance range as handles. A lot of what makes a kite perform comes from how much effort a pilot is willing to put forth. We're talking less than 4m here. That small even a bar is plenty zippy for a first time flier IMO if there's wind.

Again, if possible to go with a Depower I don't see a reason not to. Fixed bridles have a place still but after getting on depower 12yrs ago I never looked back. There's a reason why nobody kite surfs on fixed bridle. There's a reason why a company like Ozone dumps their fixed bridle offerings. Our school stopped using FB trainers 2 years ago and it has made transitioning student from trainers to full size kites SO MUCH SIMPLER.

This all said, any kite is better than no kite. And a simple fixed bridle will still teach you basic set up and how to use the wind window. in regards to the Rush vs. Alpha, my guess is the Rush is a stouter build than the Alpha. We don't sell the Alpha but it's less cost for a reason. Still a suitable beginner kite but for long term it may not have the longevity of the Rush and as such less resale value if you decide to upgrade. For $90 more you could buy the new Rush School 3m and have 1 kite that covers the wind range of the Rush 2, 2.5 and 3m. With the stouter build. The only thing however is you would need some flavor of harness. A swiss seat made of rope would do for starters.

Not trying to confuse the situation further. :D

Windstruck - 23-6-2015 at 10:49 AM

As usual, I like your thinking Chris! I am leaning more and more toward DP as my primary weapon. I LOVE my 12M Peak2 for buggying and can't wait to work it this winter on skis. As you were telling me, this is pretty close to a one kite quiver for my needs, certainly with the sustained wind under 10 knots. I've not tried it yet in winds over that and I expect to need to eat my Wheaties for that.

Xianthiax - the folks here that are weighing in give you really good advice. I would only say pay particular note of the "you get what you pay for" theme that you've seen off and on throughout this thread. Chris' (Feyd) points are good ones when it comes to resale. Trainers won't be your go to's if you get serious and you will likely want to unload it sooner than you think.

I look forward to hearing about how this goes and what your impressions are once your "graduate" up to DPs. Only a matter of time... :evil:

Bladerunner - 23-6-2015 at 05:01 PM

I lean toward 4 line on handles and a strop when teaching people who intend to move up to depower.

I show them ( usually side by side with my Pulse ) that when hooked in and taking the power through the strop it is very similar to flying off the chicken loop / front lines with the bar out. I have them hold the handles horizontal like a bar and then have them do brake turns + add brake to both sides. I show them how that is similar to steering and pulling your bar in on a depower. I find it helps them get their head around what is happening to the kite when they work the bar since depower is such a confusing word. Naturally as part of that lesson I try to explain how the depower is changing the whole AOA and projected area ( in some cases ) while with FB you are just influencing the back row of bridle lines.

Starting with FB on a bar doesn't force the beginner to think about brake input and how the front / back lines influence the kite. I find that people who understand that progress to become better depower pilots faster.

xanthiax - 24-6-2015 at 02:57 PM

Chris / Others.

Thank you for the advice. I had already ordered the kite before I read these posts. I went with the alpha but not for the cost, I was willing to pay for the rush.

The reason I took the alpha is because of the 4 lines over the rush, which is effectively a 2 line kite with a break line. I get what you're saying about the depower Chris however, I have a wife and she would execute me if I'd have spent that much money on what she classes as a toy... (even after vids).

So, not only do I have to learn how to fly but I have to contest with her too... (working on it slowly.)

Kite arrived today. No wind but I took it out anyway. Stood in a field like a loonie waiting with hope. Luckily, I did the old kiddie trick of waiting for a small bit of wind and taking a short run backwards to get some height, luckily it worked.

I have to say, I'm not disappointed!! little to no wind and that thing pulls. my back feels like I've been the gym and I was only flying for about 20 30 mins!!

I can't wait to see what its like with a bit of stable wind.

I have to admit though, how I expected it to fly via the controls was different to how it actually worked. I found turning it harder than I thought it was going to be, this could have been a combination of poor form and lack of wind. I will have a better idea after I try again. Think I may go watch some tube vids to see if I can pick up some tips.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

ssayre - 24-6-2015 at 03:07 PM

You just need a little more wind it will most likely handle great. When learning, you really want about 8-12 mph at least. Lower than that and you'll struggle

xanthiax - 24-6-2015 at 03:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
You just need a little more wind it will most likely handle great. When learning, you really want about 8-12 mph at least. Lower than that and you'll struggle


Yup, I can see that being an issue. I will need to do some research into some good locations. I am in the UK so will be interesting to see if there are any clubs local I could maybe use their sites to practice.

Devoted - 24-6-2015 at 03:29 PM

Great to hear you had a great time.

Low wind behaviour is different from stronger winds. The kite will become more alive.
As for turning the kite. That can roughly be done in three ways.
1. Pull the handle towards you LEAVING brakelines slack (turn)
2. Twist the bottom part of one handle towards you so you turn the kite on a break line. (Quicker turn)
3.Pull the handle towards you and twist the handle at the same time. (Quickest turn)

Side note...in low to no wind, you want to keep the tension on the kite. And your wind window is very small.
But making flying hours will teach you all.

Good luck

Quote: Originally posted by xanthiax  
Chris / Others.

Thank you for the advice. I had already ordered the kite before I read these posts. I went with the alpha but not for the cost, I was willing to pay for the rush.

The reason I took the alpha is because of the 4 lines over the rush, which is effectively a 2 line kite with a break line. I get what you're saying about the depower Chris however, I have a wife and she would execute me if I'd have spent that much money on what she classes as a toy... (even after vids).

So, not only do I have to learn how to fly but I have to contest with her too... (working on it slowly.)

Kite arrived today. No wind but I took it out anyway. Stood in a field like a loonie waiting with hope. Luckily, I did the old kiddie trick of waiting for a small bit of wind and taking a short run backwards to get some height, luckily it worked.

I have to say, I'm not disappointed!! little to no wind and that thing pulls. my back feels like I've been the gym and I was only flying for about 20 30 mins!!

I can't wait to see what its like with a bit of stable wind.

I have to admit though, how I expected it to fly via the controls was different to how it actually worked. I found turning it harder than I thought it was going to be, this could have been a combination of poor form and lack of wind. I will have a better idea after I try again. Think I may go watch some tube vids to see if I can pick up some tips.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

xanthiax - 24-6-2015 at 03:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
Great to hear you had a great time.

Low wind behaviour is different from stronger winds. The kite will become more alive.
As for turning the kite. That can roughly be done in three ways.
1. Pull the handle towards you LEAVING brakelines slack (turn)
2. Twist the bottom part of one handle towards you so you turn the kite on a break line. (Quicker turn)
3.Pull the handle towards you and twist the handle at the same time. (Quickest turn)


Thanks, I guess as you say, more flight time the more it will make sense, I think I had a break line twisted too, sure that didnt help.

Really looking forward to getting back out there. Really surprised at how much pull it had. I am so looking forward to another bash at it..

Bladerunner - 24-6-2015 at 05:10 PM

Just want to confirm that you are holding the handles correct. Top lines between your index and middle finger.

As described there are 3 ways to influence a turn . Push pull ( like steering a bike ) on the front lines only. Adding a bit of brake tension to one side will alter the wing and it will fly that direction. Combining the 2 you can pretty much spin the kite on it's wing tip.

Just try and CONTROL the kite at 1st ( in decent winds ). Don't fly it all over the place but just try and keep it calm. Try NOT to use the brakes until the steering ( and delay ) are set in your memory reflexes. Then play with adding brake input.

Beginners often seem to make jerky movements. They only confuse the kite. Try and influence things gently and learn how to anticipate the delay. You need to start your turns early do to this delay.

Enjoy!

Devoted - 24-6-2015 at 07:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by xanthiax  
Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
Great to hear you had a great time.

Low wind behaviour is different from stronger winds. The kite will become more alive.
As for turning the kite. That can roughly be done in three ways.
1. Pull the handle towards you LEAVING brakelines slack (turn)
2. Twist the bottom part of one handle towards you so you turn the kite on a break line. (Quicker turn)
3.Pull the handle towards you and twist the handle at the same time. (Quickest turn)


Thanks, I guess as you say, more flight time the more it will make sense, I think I had a break line twisted too, sure that didnt help.

Really looking forward to getting back out there. Really surprised at how much pull it had. I am so looking forward to another bash at it..


Comments lime this reminds me of my maiden flight. Gosh i was a virgin back in time. But the fun of exploring the wind range and the kite....good times.

PL pepper 4.5 was my first kite. And coming from a good shop who considered the average inland winds.

After that a set of Gin Yoz kites. The whole range. Good design. One of the best designs to look at. That 10.5 was a beast in light winds. Slow turns but the pull of a truck on steroids. :rolleyes:

Tried a ozone Riot, collected a set of Flexi Blades...and yes..including the big ones...and crashed myself down jumping over a tree. 6 months no kiting including the event i organized myself.

Went to PL arcs and never looked back till now.
I had good times on handles. Flown good kites. Learned boarding on a small grass field with holes and bumps. Faceplants, and bar hitting nose stuff.

But also learned a lot about adjusting kites, bridles, crappy winds, getting overpowered and sharing experiences and a coffee.

Living here for 8 months and saw one kiter passing by on land.
I have to set the trend. Hahaha.

Ps...got myself a synergy 15. Figured it will do for land and some random ocean kiting. The more im on here,
the more i want to hang out on different kite spots close by and hang out with peeps and have a laugh.

Beer's on me.

Devoted - 24-6-2015 at 07:07 PM

Ps...peeps think kiting is easy,
but the wind and power, combined with body mechanics and what to actually get out of a kite is different.

I look at Sam or Wilby and they make boarding look easy. I make boarding look difficult. Hey..see the difference. They are good..
i try stuff and have just as good of a time. Hahaha..and have good looks.
Im handsome....:smilegrin:

xanthiax - 25-6-2015 at 02:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
Just want to confirm that you are holding the handles correct. Top lines between your index and middle finger.

As described there are 3 ways to influence a turn . Push pull ( like steering a bike ) on the front lines only. Adding a bit of brake tension to one side will alter the wing and it will fly that direction. Combining the 2 you can pretty much spin the kite on it's wing tip.

Just try and CONTROL the kite at 1st ( in decent winds ). Don't fly it all over the place but just try and keep it calm. Try NOT to use the brakes until the steering ( and delay ) are set in your memory reflexes. Then play with adding brake input.

Beginners often seem to make jerky movements. They only confuse the kite. Try and influence things gently and learn how to anticipate the delay. You need to start your turns early do to this delay.

Enjoy!



Hi,

Yes, I looked at a few vids, I am "holding" them correctly, however using them correctly is a different matter, I keep forgetting there are breaklines attached. I catch myself trying to pull the kite. (again this is prob because there was no wind and I was trying to force the kite to move.)

Good advice though, I will try and keep the kite stable rather than throwing it around. I think you're right, get the basics right first and the rest should be a lot easier.

its meant to be 8 - 14 mph today so I have kite in the car for after work, trees look very still though. You guys will be having lunch by the time i'm out there. Will let you know how I get on later.

xanthiax - 25-6-2015 at 02:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
Ps...peeps think kiting is easy,
but the wind and power, combined with body mechanics and what to actually get out of a kite is different.

I look at Sam or Wilby and they make boarding look easy. I make boarding look difficult. Hey..see the difference. They are good..
i try stuff and have just as good of a time. Hahaha..and have good looks.
Im handsome....:smilegrin:


You excite me and scare me both at the same time with your comments!

Yes, its nice being in the honeymoon period of a new sport, you get the thrill the adrenaline. I will like it a little more when I'm competant though, took me 20 mins to figure out where all the lines where meant to go when I was setting it up.

Haha.. Bet I can get it up in 5 mins now, assuming my lines aint twisted to death..

hiaguy - 25-6-2015 at 04:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by xanthiax  
... assuming my lines aint twisted to death..

There are a couple of different methods of packing a kite and lines so that you avoid the dreaded rats nest of tangles.
Take a look at:
http://www.racekites.com/2010/03/how-to-fly-part-4-packing-a...
I used to simply wrap the lines around the top of the handles, but now I use a figure-8 around the handles - it seems faster and the lines seem to be less twisted.

Windstruck - 25-6-2015 at 05:03 PM

@hiaguy - I learn something new everyday! "Parapacking" - wow! Seems almost too good to be true. I couldn't help but notice that you choose to go with the figure 8 method (as do I) BUT your link was for this grab-and-stuff method. Begs the question - did you try it but ultimately abandon it for the more "traditional" approach? I have got to try it!

@xanthiax - I suspect a good number of use some variation of the figure 8 winding method. I tend to buggy mostly from bar setups which really lend themselves to winding lines in fig-8 patterns due to their long length and hooked ends (clearly designed with this in mind). Here is the important part (maybe the most important): be deliberate in your packing and winding and ALWAYS unwind in the exact reverse sequence as you wound. What I mean by this is say you held the bar (or handles) in your left hand and wound the lines with your right hand while facing the kite and facing downwind while walking towards the kite, then when you later unwind it is IMPERATIVE that you again face the kite with the wind at your back, hold the bar again in your left and walk backwards away from the kite upwind taking the lines off with your right hand. The most careful winding in the world will have exactly as many twists in your lines as you made figure 8s if you just flip the lines off the bar. That may take an hour to unravel, especially when you give the lines a yank or catch one on your foot. How do I know the you ask???:(

I learned the hard way to be 100% consistent in this process. It's pretty easy once you get used to it. Just do it right every time! :evil:

hiaguy - 25-6-2015 at 05:30 PM

@swesting - I knew there were a couple of write-ups on the parapak, but didn't remember seeing one for winding, so I took the easy-out for the post.

I started with the wrap around the top of the handles, stuck in a sock to keep it wrapped.
After a few months I tried the parapak: managed to tangle the lines all three times I tried it and decided that the mess sitting in the bag bothered me.
Went to the figure-8 and liked it. I check the lines for wear and tear as I go. After the last wrap, I run the lines between the handles (which are already held tightly) to secure them.

You're absolutely right about consistency - same hands, same direction every time - never get a tangle.

Windstruck - 25-6-2015 at 06:15 PM

Hiaguy - I was suspicious of the parapack! One of those "If it looks too good to be true then it probably is" sort of things. I am willing to try it with my new PL 4.5M Uniq since the concept for that kite is sort of "fast in; fast out". I'll see how it goes.

Probably a bit overkill with my last post, but jeez, I once did exactly what I described early on and ended up with about 50+ beautifully symmetrical twists in a four line set up. Sure enough, I caught one of the lines about 15 ft in with my shoe and fell flat on my face while lunging to catch my balance (hey, I think the Russion judge scored me an 8.5). When I got up the lines were a complete cluster ..... The following hour is one I sure would like to get back.

I did static traction kiting off and on for about 10 years before I stumbled onto PKF and had by then learned much of what we talk about (short of the buggying and DP kiting which is still pretty new for me) the hard slow way all on my own. PKF really lit my fire for buggying and all the rest. Man, to have had a few sage online friends to guide me along would have been sweet! :cool2:

xanthiax - 26-6-2015 at 01:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by swesting  

@xanthiax - I suspect a good number of use some variation of the figure 8 winding method. I tend to buggy mostly from bar setups which really lend themselves to winding lines in fig-8 patterns due to their long length and hooked ends (clearly designed with this in mind). Here is the important part (maybe the most important): be deliberate in your packing and winding and ALWAYS unwind in the exact reverse sequence as you wound. What I mean by this is say you held the bar (or handles) in your left hand and wound the lines with your right hand while facing the kite and facing downwind while walking towards the kite, then when you later unwind it is IMPERATIVE that you again face the kite with the wind at your back, hold the bar again in your left and walk backwards away from the kite upwind taking the lines off with your right hand. The most careful winding in the world will have exactly as many twists in your lines as you made figure 8s if you just flip the lines off the bar. That may take an hour to unravel, especially when you give the lines a yank or catch one on your foot. How do I know the you ask???:(

I learned the hard way to be 100% consistent in this process. It's pretty easy once you get used to it. Just do it right every time! :evil:


My wife and I had a 20 min argument last night after my flying session just about this, I couldnt figure it out and of course, she knew best!

In the end, I just disconnected both ends and put the lines back on the reel...

haha. I will take a look at the link that was kindly posted above and see if that gives me a better idea. .

Devoted - 26-6-2015 at 05:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by xanthiax  

In the end, I just disconnected both ends and put the lines back on the reel.


That will teach her. :rolleyes: haha

xanthiax - 26-6-2015 at 05:55 AM

So much wind today, think my boss will let me go early?

two options : "erm, I have my wifes keys so I have to leave early?"

"Boss, can I go early, I want to fly my kite."

Windstruck - 26-6-2015 at 06:26 AM

Xanthiax - you may just have set a record here on PKF to have have had a twenty minute discussion with your wife about anything kite related, whether it was an argument or not! :D

Such long discussions about kiting typically in a marriage much more typically fall into one of two categories: 1) "No you can't raid the kid's college fund or your 401(k) to buy more of those damn things. Aren't 15 kites or however damn many you have by now enough because I've lost track; or, 2) "Now honey, you know I love you very much, but I really think it has gotten to the point where you seriously need to start thinking about choosing me and the kids or your damn kites." Or some variation along those lines. :)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program: I would strongly recommend checking out two videos on YouTube (both by quedecree). Here are the links:

http://youtu.be/1FFVFffvXrQ

http://youtu.be/HZVCD-Kzu9k

I use mostly bars to fly kites as of late, but the sock over the bars technique featured in the first video is ingenious in its simplicity. Note how he walks backwards in the beginning playing the lines off of his figure eight with his right hand while holding the handles in his left hand and then does the exact same thing in reverse when winding things up at the end, walking towards the kite holding the handles again in his left hand and winding with his right.

xanthiax - 29-6-2015 at 01:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by swesting  
Xanthiax - you may just have set a record here on PKF to have have had a twenty minute discussion with your wife about anything kite related, whether it was an argument or not! :D

Such long discussions about kiting typically in a marriage much more typically fall into one of two categories: 1) "No you can't raid the kid's college fund or your 401(k) to buy more of those damn things. Aren't 15 kites or however damn many you have by now enough because I've lost track; or, 2) "Now honey, you know I love you very much, but I really think it has gotten to the point where you seriously need to start thinking about choosing me and the kids or your damn kites." Or some variation along those lines. :)


I have to admit, this did make me chuckle a little. My wife asked what I was laughing at, so I read her your post.

Her response was: "I have more of this to come then?"

Result! seed planted. I am taking that as permission to start looking for a board and 5m kite. Christmas is only around the corner! :)

Thanks for the links, I'm just about to watch them now. Though, stripping the kite completely only takes 5 mins, I've not had any bad tangles yet. Is there a reason that you don't strip the lines completely? or is it just a convenience thing?

On a separate note; had some great winds on sat/sun. took the kite and a board to the beech...

<<<WOW>>>

It pulled me a round like I was a piece of paper. Clearly, I have no board control but I can move in a straight (slightly left) line. cant for the life of me turn right! lesson 2 is board balance :)

Feeling a little sore and bruised but had so much fun!

Windstruck - 29-6-2015 at 02:19 PM

Xanthiax - too funny. Yes, I clearly hear a permission statement in there so get shopping. Remember though, paybacS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s a #@%$#! and you need to be prepared for lots of shiny pointy new shoes on her feet or whatever her personal affliction happens to be.

Not quite sure what you mean by "stripping the lines completely". Kindly explain.

It sounds from your description of your kiting session that you had a great time. It would appear, however, that at this point you are yet to become an ambiturner. If you don't get your act together quickly we're going to nickname you Zoolander: https://youtu.be/8hJ1HDcMowk :P

riffclown - 29-6-2015 at 02:32 PM

Here's what I use..

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26505

Fly in lees than 3 minutes. Pack in less than 5.

xanthiax - 29-6-2015 at 03:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by swesting  
Xanthiax - too funny. Yes, I clearly hear a permission statement in there so get shopping. Remember though, paybacS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s a #@%$#! and you need to be prepared for lots of shiny pointy new shoes on her feet or whatever her personal affliction happens to be.

Not quite sure what you mean by "stripping the lines completely". Kindly explain.

It sounds from your description of your kiting session that you had a great time. It would appear, however, that at this point you are yet to become an ambiturner. If you don't get your act together quickly we're going to nickname you Zoolander: https://youtu.be/8hJ1HDcMowk :P


Oh Swesting, I am a great at going left... A master one could say.. :D

Great vids, I love the sock idea.. That guy has the best flying spot in the world.

Stripping the lines, I simply mean take off the kite and the bars and put them back on that plastic thing they came on..

I will give the sock idea a go, though it really doesnt take long to just pack the strings away completely. I can see its a little faster if you just wrap them like in the vid. Im gonna mess that up and spend a week untangling them :D
I am an ambiturner... NOOOOOO... I can't go right.. lol

Windstruck - 29-6-2015 at 05:54 PM

Xanthiax - now I see what you mean. I suspect there are nearly as many varieties of packing as their are kite enthusiasts. Speaking only for myself, there are some kite setups in my quiver that I share a bar among more than one kite (two PL Lynx's and three NASA Star 3's) so for those kites I pack my lines separately from my kites, winding figure 8's around their bars. As discussed before, winding on bars is generally simpler anyway since they are longer and have hooked ends perfect for wrapping figure 8's around. However, for my FS Peak2 it is the only kite I have from them so I leave the lines attached to the kite and wind them on its bar. For the kites I fly off of handles (PL Hornet and PL Uniq) both came with handles so I leave the lines attached to those too and do a variation of the sock over handle winding approach.

With you (current) one kite quiver (a quivlette?) I would suggest leaving the lines attached and come up with some sort of system that works for you. The thread that riffclown shared earlier had some nice suggestions.

xanthiax - 30-6-2015 at 12:32 PM

indeed!


Thanks Both, wind forecast for tomorrow so I'll try and wrap my lines nicely :)