Power Kite Forum

Peter Lynn Uniq Quick Look

BigMikesKites - 17-6-2015 at 08:02 AM


Peter Lynn Uniq Series unpacking. Flight testing as soon as it stops raining.


Windstruck - 17-6-2015 at 08:23 AM

En route. Yippee !:wee:

Windstruck - 17-6-2015 at 09:15 AM

Just watched the video. Nice job Mike. I was pleased to see that the Quad lines were not permanently attached to the bridles (as compared to tying your own larks head knots).

I can't remember exactly where I read this, but I know I saw somewhere that the flying lines were permanently attached to the bridle lines in this series. On the PL website they list "Pre-attached, colour coded, durable DyneemaŽ flying lines" in the bullet points for the Uniq Quad. I could see from the end of your unpacking video that the flying lines were wound separately in the bag with the handles, best-in-industry kite killers, etc. Phew!

I'm going to try it both on the handles and the PL crossover bar you sold me a while back. I'll put in a good word with the Rain Gods for ya! :evil:

Randy - 17-6-2015 at 10:28 AM

Hey Big Mike - when you do finally get a chance to fly them, could you try flying them off the handles/short lines. NPW fans like me would certainly be interested in what you could say about that.

BigMikesKites - 17-6-2015 at 11:34 AM

The lines on the Play and TR come 'connected' is a better word than attached.
They are pre connected, but can be removed. The Quad is not connected, like every other fixed bridle Peter Lynn sells.

soliver - 17-6-2015 at 03:41 PM

I'm excited to see the low wind performance of the 4.5m quad

John Holgate - 17-6-2015 at 05:51 PM

Looking forward to your thoughts, Mike. Although it'll probably rain for a whole week now you have these!

3shot - 17-6-2015 at 07:57 PM

Looking forward to the reviews!

-mj- - 19-6-2015 at 06:42 AM

Hi,
We've put together an introduction video.

Check it out here: VIDEO

Or check it on the Uniq pages on the website.
My favourite part, from 1:50 on..:lol:

And we'll be making a couple more videos when conditions allow.

Windstruck - 19-6-2015 at 08:41 AM

Thanks for the post Marijn! My Uniq Quad 4.5M is en route from Big Mike and should be in my hands Monday. Can't wait! I already own and really like the single skin Peak2 12M. I only have two beefs with the Peak2; occasional wing tip folding (likely "user error" on my part but I've read that others too have dealt with this) and that the bridles are really complicated and easier than I like to tangle even when I'm being super careful. Regarding the bridles, I appreciate that the Uniq is FB and the Peak2 is DP. What I'm really liking about the Uniq from the video (at about 1:20) is the simplicity of the Uniq's bridle system. Sweet! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Any serious consideration or beta testing going on at PL along the lines of a Single Skin DP based off of the Uniq (or similar) platform? The shape of the Uniq wing and the Peak2 wings are quite similar as you are doubtless aware. My vote would be that a series of single-skin DPs would be a superb addition to an already great PL line of traction kites (with simple bridles please!). Make mom proud! ;)

utahtami - 19-6-2015 at 05:25 PM

I just got the 1.5m quad for static flying. I don't think I have ever flown a kite with such a narrow wind window. Glad I wasn't planning on buggying with one.

ssayre - 19-6-2015 at 05:50 PM

What winds?

utahtami - 19-6-2015 at 05:55 PM

It was generally underpowered but (as always) the wind powered up for a few periods. Enough to pull nicely. I quit using a wind meter a year ago.

ssayre - 19-6-2015 at 06:58 PM

I've noticed the wind window increases with more wind with my single skin kites. I'm guessing it will feel more normal in high winds. Just a guess

BigMikesKites - 20-6-2015 at 03:42 AM

We've had dry weather for the past few days. Enough to dry out enough to get out there and try it. I've gathered a group together to assist with flying. I hope to have videos put together by this evening or tomorrow morning at the latest.

WackyWindsurfer - 20-6-2015 at 04:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by -mj-  
Hi,
We've put together an introduction video.

Check it out here: VIDEO

Or check it on the Uniq pages on the website.
My favourite part, from 1:50 on..:lol:

And we'll be making a couple more videos when conditions allow.

My home spot! :thumbup:
Nice video Marijn!

povlhp - 22-6-2015 at 05:43 AM

BigMike has videos up of all 3 types of the Uniq on youtbe. No mention of bad behaviour. He tests the 1.5 play and 3.5 quad. Now I am just waiting for mine to arrive.

BigMikesKites - 22-6-2015 at 02:38 PM

I will start a new thread for each...along with some sort of a review.

-mj- - 30-6-2015 at 05:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by utahtami  
I just got the 1.5m quad for static flying. I don't think I have ever flown a kite with such a narrow wind window. Glad I wasn't planning on buggying with one.


Yeah the wind window is smaller on these kites compared to 'normal' fixed bridle kites, no-one ever said they would outperform existing powerkites on every level right from the introduction of the first generation.

The other thing, yes the window gets narrower even more when the kite doesn't really gets enough wind, for it to be really effective in the light stuff try putting on lighter flying lines.
You can imagine the weight of the (strong included) lines having quite an impact on a 1.5m single skin which weighs next to nothing.

Have fun with further testing!

And I saw a post on a a 'pass the 4.5'? Mike, get on the phone with VO, I'm sure something can be done :thumbup:

povlhp - 6-9-2015 at 12:50 PM

Here some raw video from my first flight with the Uniq Quad 1.5m2.
http://youtu.be/7l4QWAB0ahQ
Gusty wind, 2-10 m/s, averaging 4-5 m/s. So good wind. But the kite really does not want to fly forward, even with lots of slack on the steering lines. By mistake I had switched front/aft lines around at the kite end, so I flew with handles upside down, so the heavier lines behind could influence it a bit. But, really a lazy kite that does not want to move much, difficult to turn, reacts very much to gusts. Not easy to turn, a little too hard, and it collapses the side. Felt I had to fly it 2-line style while adding brake when pulling the side I want to steer to. Really disappointed.
I feel my kite has wrong trim, since it really does not want to move forward. I can keep it hanging still in the air probably only 20 degrees off ground, pointing up, full slack on brake lines. But it just hangs there. Anything else would move. At times I felt like it tried to simulate a SLK. I have nothing of the forward movement I see elsewhere.

On the video there is a cheap 6m, $10 china SLK, which I use as wind indicator.

gemini6kl - 6-9-2015 at 01:01 PM

I think the first thing you have to do is set up your lines properly and redo the video. The fact that you set up your lines wrong and continued to fly is a red flag to me:puzzled:. With that being said I think these single skin kites need a few more years of innovation to improve on present day kites. they definitely have some issues and don't really improve on the kite technology we already have in my opinion.

ssayre - 6-9-2015 at 01:13 PM

@gemini, a blanket statement that single skin is not good yet is simply not true. You might not need the huge depower range that an inland flier such as myself needs. Kites like the peak and nasa star allow me to have great sessions in crappy wind. On the performance side, Feyd has taken a peak to 67 mph and has said he can jump and kite loop with it. Also, the jibe guys said the peak was excellent at upwind. Also, guys have buggied across mongolia with all single skin. I think they have proven themselves quite worthy to many many people. They're not for everyone, but they are great kites just the same.

I don't know about the uniq but I will say that povlhp's flying style is the most unusual, unnatural, awkward that I have ever seen. Sorry no offense but your previous rev flying might be causing problems??? I don't know.

Edit: povl, I was not trying to be insulting in any way. It's clear you know how to fly, but just looked like you were working harder than you had to.

gemini6kl - 6-9-2015 at 01:25 PM

In my 10 years of flying many different types of kites all I can say is that the single skin does not bring much improvemt to the field. they only thing I like Is tht they are a lighter kite to work with and may have a little bit more power for its size, but if u want me to go into the negatives and I can make a list ex unstable in gusty winds, small windrange, flappy edges when not powered up , constant vibrating lines in the peak when depowered, high bar pressure on the peak, looses power in turns and loops. I don't know about the uniq series as I have not flown one.

ssayre - 6-9-2015 at 01:37 PM

Fair enough :) I've flown an arc and several different types of fixed bridle foils. I personally didn't care for them for my conditions. I haven't experienced the same issues that you have but I'm on a peak 1.

Windstruck - 6-9-2015 at 05:14 PM

Gotta agree with ssayre on this one Gemini. I realize you have a broader experience in the single-skin waters than only the Uniq series, but it is hardly a proper reflection of the current single-skin breed. The NS3s by Born-Kte are solid flyers in junky wind and uncanny flyers in clean on shore ocean wind. The Peak-2s in turn suck up gusts with amazing depower capabilities. They have a learning curve but once you learn how they work they really shine.

I owned (and promptly sold) a 4.5m PL Uniq Quad. I would agree with you that it is a kite not really ready for prime time, at least as a buggy engine. I'd never cast a dark shadow over single skins based on the Uniq.

Here's the thing about single-skins that either is important to you or not. They pack up incredibly small! I have a series of different sized stuff sacks in which I store my Born-Kite quiver. My smaller ones go into 2L sacks, and my 8.5m fits nicely in a 5L sack. I can get an entire quiver of 6 NS3s (including the 10.0 and 12.5m), 3 LongStars, and three bars into a single PL Lynx backpack. That's nine kites with three bars! Try that with two-skinned kites of any variety.

The other thing super nice about single skinned kites is that they will launch in almost no wind. For static flying you can have fun flying sessions in almost no wind.

So I guess I'm. A fan of single-skins.... ;)

Feyd - 6-9-2015 at 07:24 PM

"Looses power in the turns and loops"? Sorry but if you want to talk red flags, that's one right there. In the interest of trying to keep mis-information about the Peak series of kites and the performance in general of single skin depowers I'm going to be blunt here. From what Gemini has described it indicates that he is not flying the kite correctly. Sorry but IMO it's as simple as that.

People love to blame the gear. Much easier than looking at themselves. Watch the linked video of one of the first days out on the 6m PK2 last season...

https://youtu.be/ntBN-JuwP0U

See at :37. Two loops used to build power in light winds. 2:00 illustrates it's upwind ability (which I think is quite good for this type of kite).

Now, this being said. The kite can be made to do loops and turns without power. @ 2:11, Down looping power stroke followed by a non powered stalling loop then back to full power across the window. This gives the Peak a lot of options and allows one to put the Peak into some pretty damn precise places that other kites can't manage nearly as easily or safely. Makes you feel like a damn ninja.

The Uniq IMO just muddies the waters. It's a fixed bridle and doesn't come close to what a Peak offers beyond being affordable, powerful for it's size and compact. I would have liked to see PL come to market with a depower single skin. But for some reason they just can't give up on adding more fixed bridles I guess. (What we need is a new Arc. One with no need to preinflate. CAN YOU IMAGINE?!!!)

Are single skins perfect? No. But they are a pretty substantial evolutionary step in kite development and for something so new they perform amazing. Flysurfer wouldn't have bothered otherwise and I I don't think FLysurfer throws $$$ into R&D and then production if they don't see a future in it. Sometimes manufacturers make mistakes, but I don't think the Peak is one of them.

They're great kites. If you take the time to learn how to get the most out of them.

Just like anything.;)






Windstruck - 6-9-2015 at 07:55 PM

Way to hit 'em Harry, err, Chris! :evil:


povlhp - 6-9-2015 at 11:09 PM

More video, now including the ActionCam on my helmet, so more footage:
https://youtu.be/GqGLsB8mHAk

For me it was difficult to get a flow, and fly 8-loops. My experience it mostly with Revolution style, and dual-line. Been out a few times with a PL Hornet 3.0m2. I have fairly good control of these.

Regarding swapped lines, as long as I can fly it with ease with slack on the brake lines, and still pull them tight, it should not make much difference, except a little with weight. Of course all the lines are oversized for this size. 200/100 kg is way more than needed. I could probably fly it on 150 lbs/50 lbs even in pretty strong wind. But I don't believe a little added lineweight should kill performance so much. Will probably create a lighter line set, like 150/100 or 100/100 (lbs not kg). PL really should have provided the ligther lines if they think they are too heavy like Marijn indikates in his post.

I got the feeling that the 1.5m2 is too small, or not trimmed aggressive enough to want to go forward all the time. Could be my copy, as the videos from Big Mike seems to present a kite that flies normally.

bigE123 - 7-9-2015 at 02:45 AM

Looks like too much brake tension is holding the kite back, it doesn't seem to have much window / back stalling suggesting too much brake.

povlhp - 7-9-2015 at 03:54 AM

Sure. That was my feeling. Like it was trimmed wrong, or too much brake tension. But the brake lines where hanging in a large loop down, no tension at all. I doubt the heavier brake lines should influence it that much, but as I wrote, I will try some much lighter brake lines, not over 100 lbs. Never had any significant pull on those. Guess 50 lbs would be fine even in the strongest wind. Don't have any standard lines in 20m, so will have to make some. And maybe move the sterring lines to front. 200 lbs should be fine there.

But again, it could be because lines are too heavy for the 1.5m2, or maybe the trim is off for my copy ? Or all 1.5m2 ? Couldn't get it to fly anything like in the product advertisement video. https://youtu.be/jCW2qdfxi-s?t=53s
And there it is flewn with tight brake lines. And this is in Bft 3 or so, judged from the ocean, so more or less same wind range.

gemini6kl - 7-9-2015 at 05:04 AM

I would hardly think that someones opinion about something they have actually tried is misinformation, I stand by all my statements. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that notices the issues. Have you even flown a smaller sized peak 2 Feyd? Well Its generally not a good idea to give an opinion about something you never used. Pilot error huh, that's a good one and very laughable. so I guess next we will be presented with a video showing a 12m without the tip tuck. I guess that would prove that those who had the issues just didn't know wht they were doing. :P

ssayre - 7-9-2015 at 05:18 AM

Haha, has feyd flown a 4 meter? That's a good one. You must not know much about Feyd's experience.

Here is one review amoung many he has done

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29766

gemini6kl - 7-9-2015 at 05:36 AM

Well That's great but his review of the ozone access and peak 2 basically confirms my statements the kite is finicky compared to the most of the reputable branded kites we have out now, along with that I'm sure all the issues about the kite were not listed due to certain reason I wont go into. My goal is not to criticize the kite just for the hell of it but to bring out the issues so that hopefully flysurfer can make it better like I said before I'm all for new technology but if it dosent improve on what we already have I don't see the benefit of it.

I'm quoting from his own words in his review :

("After about an hour and a half of riding various sections of the lake Paul and I landed in a wind shadow and swapped kites.

I took off on the Peak 2 and after riding the Access it was a stark difference in how it felt and handled. The bar pressure was considerably higher than the Ozone. The 4m Peak had a bit more power than the 6m Access and the delivery of that power could be smooth or abrupt depending on how you sheeted in. The Peak 2 is not nearly the friendly cruiser the Access is but it is a lot of fun to fly. The nice thing, about the Peak is that even with the higher power you can still ride with little to no worry of getting lofted or yarded. But it is definitely more work to fly than the Access.

After about another half hour or so Paul and I met up to compare notes. Like myself, he was amazed at the stability of the Access. While he was playing on the Peak, at times fighting with it, he noticed how easily I was cruising around and how stabile the Access was. After taking it for a ride he understood why. ")


Like I said in my original review of the kite the issues I encountered were, a small windrange, heavy bar pressure, an on and off power delivery, loosing some power in turns and loops, not very stable in gusty winds , tip tucking in lighter winds when depowered. The things I liked were the near 100% depower and small packing size and the slight increase in power per size. I think his review confirmed most of the things I originally stated. so I don't knw why I would be quoted as putting out misinformation.
with that being said I think ill refrain from talking about the peak and let others try it and give there opinion as I see we have a little bit of a flysurfer fan club going. :o

povlhp - 7-9-2015 at 05:47 AM

If people think the brake lines are too tight, look at this frame capture. Tell me again the brake lines are too tight. The kite only moves little forward, and the brake lines has very visible slack. But again, will retry at some point with lighter brake lines.

Screenshot - 07-09-2015 , 14_25_58.png - 211kB

Windstruck - 7-9-2015 at 06:05 AM

@povlhp - I don't think the brake lines are too tight. Rather, as you mentioned, I think the brake lines are too HEAVY. It would appear from the videos that you were dealing with light winds. Strong enough to launch a feather weight single skin like the 1.5 Uniq but not enough to really power it. I used to own (and promptly sold) the 4.5m Uniq. I wanted it as a buggy engine and didn't feel it was suited for this purpose. Too small a wind window. Not as small as the one in your video, but notably smaller than a kite I could compare it to at the time on the same day, a PL 4.0m Hornet.

I suspect the 1.5m Uniq is so small as to be overburdened with its lines, essentially stalling the kite as they pull the kite down from the sky due to gravity. Your idea of light weight lines might work and I wish you the best of luck with that. However, I fear you may be heading for a re-sale at a loss with this kite as I was.

As you are over in Denmark I might suggest you take a look at Born-Kite out of Germany. http://www.born-kite.de/

The NASA Star-3 single skin kites are WONDERFUL. Check out my auto signature and you'll see that I own one or two. The Uniq doesn't hold a candle to Born kites.

ssayre - 7-9-2015 at 06:07 AM

Povl, I could tell in your last video that your brake lines were not too tight, so that is not the issue. You might send peter lynn a message and see what they recommend.

Gemini, everyone is entitled to their opinion but a lot of us have been flying the peak for awhile now and have a pretty good understanding of it's flight characteristics. You said you had only flown it once? not sure about that but if that's true, then that's not enough time to judge a kite compared to everyone else that have hundred's of hours on them.

Windstruck - 7-9-2015 at 06:38 AM

Peaks are certainly unique beasts unto themselves, that's for sure. I own four of them and have over time come to really appreciate them a lot. Yes, I deal from time to time with the dreaded "tip tuck". I found that putting the outside lines on the knot farthest from the handle (under the foam pads) seems to be the best setting for me. I rarely get tip tuck anymore, and if I do a couple of pumps of the bar or some back and forth mini turns tends to pop the kite back out to full shape. I've had a lot of hours in a buggy with the full range of Peak-2s at this point and can say, at least in my hands, that tip tuck generally tends to happen either when the kite is grossly overpowered or when pilot error (i.e., me) goofs and lets the kite lines go slack.

While I've not spent any real time with other DP kites from what I've read on PKF the Peak is just a different flyer than "traditional" DPs and takes a specific flying style to get out of it what the kite is capable of. Now that I've got that down they seem to fly beautifully.

It seems a shame for us as a kite-loving family to sink down into a pissing match over contrasting kite designs. I for one don't want to head in that direction. I look forward to seeing how the various kite companies innovate, and hopefully continue to improve, over time. Reading through the lines I suspect PL will come out with a single skin DP at some point. FS will probably have a Peak-3, and Born-Kite has the fabled Ultra-Star in the works. I'm not going to take the time now to find it, but I've seen some other single-skin DPs out there in development as well. Exciting times for us single-skin fanatics! :D

Windstruck - 7-9-2015 at 08:35 AM

Wow, just like that! "Tip Tuck" on a non-Peak kite. Who'd ah thunk it? :evil:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30937