Power Kite Forum

Reverse Downloop to Build Power and Apparent Wind (Low Wind Technique)

Proletariat - 15-1-2015 at 12:14 AM

So I've been recently doing this thing that works famously to build power in low/no wind and I figured I'd share. It's a bit dicey, depending on wind conditions but it works like a champ to get moving and build apparent wind when nothing else seems to.

Normally, to get going in low wind, I'll downloop at the edge of the window and steer back upwind while the kite is climbing back up at a low angle. When the wind is too low, this is where you start slowing down. So what I've been doing to overcome this is to dive the kite into another, opposite, downloop before ever reaching the apex. The kite picks up speed from the dive and is going very quickly one way while I'm going the other. The lines get super tight and I steer against it hard so the kite comes out high, fast, and the same direction I'm headed. It seems to work really well but, like I said, I can be a little dicey in gusty winds because you are purposely flying the kite behind you, so be careful.

I'll see if I can get some video. I assume others have been doing this for years, but I never saw a post on it. It works AMAZINGLY on the speed, but also works pretty damn good on bigger, slower kites.

bigkid - 15-1-2015 at 07:29 AM

Very good, glad to see others stepping out of the box.
it is possible to down loop twice while going the opposite direction.
Keep up the good work, your expanding your skill level.:thumbup:

Randy - 15-1-2015 at 10:03 AM

Sounds interesting, but for me a bit hard to visualize. Please do a video, or maybe just a drawing or something.

dangerdan - 15-1-2015 at 11:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
Sounds interesting, but for me a bit hard to visualize. Please do a video, or maybe just a drawing or something.


This is what they are trying to say:

As the kite gets to the edge of the window ( far left or right) you complete a downward loop. As the kite comes back up from that loop you keep letting it rise. When it gets high enough, you complete another downward loop to pick up speed and let it rise again.

Hope that helps.
I must be getting the hang of things as I understood that post

Randy - 15-1-2015 at 11:59 AM

Thanks.

crazyherb - 15-1-2015 at 06:43 PM

I start all my light wind sessions with a downloop... :) ;)

Kite going one way while your going the other...

http://vimeo.com/98305417

another at 20seconds in...
http://youtu.be/EW0-smd5lr8


The other option...LONG LINES and a BIG KITE...
55m on 24m Phanny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FM7Nlz3yhM

markite - 15-1-2015 at 07:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by dangerdan  
Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
Sounds interesting, but for me a bit hard to visualize. Please do a video, or maybe just a drawing or something.


This is what they are trying to say:

As the kite gets to the edge of the window ( far left or right) you complete a downward loop. As the kite comes back up from that loop you keep letting it rise. When it gets high enough, you complete another downward loop to pick up speed and let it rise again.

Hope that helps.
I must be getting the hang of things as I understood that post


I think what Dave is describing is flying the shape of an Infinity symbol (figure 8 turned horizontal) so you start with a forward downturn and as the kite comes up you then do a downturn the opposite direction heading away from you then turning down coming around following your direction again.
With the first downturn the kite is forward at the edge of the window and in light wind it's slowing down so you need to do the downturn to get kite speed to be able to bring it back to the centre of the window and doing this downturn gives power which can pull you across or slightly downwind but gets you rolling. As the kite comes around and climbs and you now edge further upwind you are slowing down so right away make the kite down loop again but the other direction and you get power but it's a bit of angle finesse to take advantage of the power rather than let it get behind and stop you.
This means the kite doesn't need to climb as high in the middle waiting to start the next loop. You could keep doing forward loops but you eventually would need to untwist. By doing the infinity pattern you cross and uncross the lines.

markite - 15-1-2015 at 07:28 PM

Another thing I do when it's light wind (and therefore a narrower wind window) or when heading more downwind and I don't want to overrun the kite is to change the stroke of the kite: When sitting in the buggy and looking at the kite we usually fly a forward sine wave with a constant up and down looking like peaks and valleys. In light wind or heading downwind I fly what looks more like a figure 8 so the kite doesn't get too far ahead and out of power. I'll dive more downward than forward and at the bottom turn up and slightly back as it climbs so the whole pattern keeps the kite from getting too far ahead and stalling. The pattern changes once speed is built up but the goal is to maximize power strokes and minimize any time when the kite is without power either slowly climbing or recovering from a near stall.

Proletariat - 15-1-2015 at 10:00 PM

Here... check 1:02 here. It's a downloop into the kite going right and me going left and when I come out of it, I'm moving along at a pretty good clip (with virtually no wind).

[youtube]v=aG2DmmP-aRw[/youtube]

I did it again at 1:23, but I think this was the first day I started doing that, because I've learned to load up those lines a little more -- so much so that at the peak pull, it basically pulls me straight downwind about 10 yards or so before coming out hot.

1:58 is a crappy execution of the same loop.

I was getting more comfortable with the maneuver at 2:40 and so that looks more solid.

It look like I was finally figuring it out by 3:25, where I actually got some juice by doing this.

Hope that helps.

markite - 15-1-2015 at 11:40 PM

Dave, remove the "v=" in the link and just use everything after the = sign

And it looks like you are doing something a little different than I thought.

ssayre - 16-1-2015 at 05:14 AM

I love that move on my 7m nasa in light wind. They can execute that maneuver in a very tight pattern or a larger pattern for more power. Also, since I can't spin my bar, I stumbled across that move pretty quickly by default.

RedSky - 16-1-2015 at 09:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
Sounds interesting, but for me a bit hard to visualize. Please do a video, or maybe just a drawing or something.



I have WAY too much time on my hands.

I hope I have Proletariat's idea correct. I've borrowed Popeye for this illustration but I'll put him back once I'm done.

Try Proetariat's idea, he's finding that flying the kite in an infinity loop requires very little wind to achieve traction. If you have the downwind room then you can capitalize on the apparent wind effect by keeping the kite in motion. The secret is keeping a constant airflow over the wing, how you achieve this is up to you. This is low wind flying.

Although in his example you might fair better travelling in a more efficient slightly downwind or even broad reach direction especially when first setting off otherwise the kite can act like a brake. You can then regain lost ground once you're up to speed. The process can then be repeated. You'll notice that the tracks you leave in sand are in a sine wave.



Proletariat - 17-1-2015 at 11:00 AM

Actually, RedSky, im talking about when you come out of the right loop, you keep looping up and to the right so so the kite come out high and fast and both you and the kite are moving the same direction. Then if you extend the bottom part of your loop on the right side of the infinity loop whilst carving upwind, you REALLY load up those lines and when you come out, it's like a slinghot. Thanks for the pic to help visualize the technique.