Power Kite Forum

Nasa Star 3

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John Holgate - 11-1-2015 at 09:27 PM

First flight of the Nasa Star 3. :D

Really crappy wind, but it felt smoother, slightly wider window, super responsive and direct with less tendency to back stall. Mind you, these are all just first impressions in 0-10 knots! So I'm chomping at the bit to get it down to Kingston for a couple weeks of kiting at the end of this week. Lots more to come....

soliver - 11-1-2015 at 09:51 PM

Holy cr@p! ... Somebody buy my Reactors... I want some!!!!!

3shot - 12-1-2015 at 04:57 AM

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Randy - 12-1-2015 at 05:55 AM

Very impressive kite! 3.2 meter? I didn't see that size or color scheme on their web page.

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 06:30 AM

Yeah, hey John... I had trouble hearing you and the bit about the "rumor" regarding the 3.2m. Mind commenting?

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 06:48 AM

Also curious if anyone can comment on how line length translates to size? I think I'm right in saying you can use a bigger kite in bigger wind on SHORTER lines. So say I want to use the 5.5m in 4m wind, what line length would make that doable?

Here's my conundrum... In my wind, the most frequently used foil I have is my 8.6m RII and the way Jason and Sean have been discussing how the sizes are comparable, I'm leaning toward getting the 8.5m NS3 when the time comes, but I don't want to be left out when I need say a 4m... now I know I can always get the 4m down the road, but for now, what line length would have the 5.5m working like the 4m. Is there a good means or equation for sorting that? Mostly curious.

ssayre - 12-1-2015 at 07:51 AM

Lots to consider but I would focus more on what you plan to use on long lines. Shortlines may give you some flexibility but will still be challenging with inland wind. It seemed like you would use the 5.5 and 8.6 mostly from your videos. I would start there and expand from there. Personally, I use the 5.5 and 7 the most and could really stand to use a 8.5 and a 3.2. It has been tough to get good 4m wind. When I'm in 4m range, the wind is usually 15ish with gusts in the low 20's. The 4 is too much in the 20's and the 2.5 isn't enough for the lulls. If I could do it over, I would get a 3.2, 5.5, 7, 8.5

Edit: Something else I'm going to try is pulling the yellow depower ball in a slightly depowered position when I'm in wind that is between sizes. I'll let you know how that works when I try it. This would allow you to remain hooked in but you could use the kite in a depowered position. So far I have trained my brain to pull the main safety only when things get out of hand. It might be awhile though, I have pretty much shelved the kites until I get some work done around the house. You know, that whole priority thing.

Thanks John, I'm going through my garage and closets to see what I can sell now. :D

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 08:30 AM

Good advice, thanks Sean... now get some work done! :lol:

Edit: Now I'm thinking maybe a good 3 kite quiver would be 3.2m, 5.5m and 8.5m... ugh but I always was wanting something in the 7m range with my foils.

ssayre - 12-1-2015 at 08:49 AM

Very tough call. The 7 is a size I haven't had before and I really like it. Although, I've never had an 8.5 either.

Edit: I forgot, I did have an 8m toxic for a couple of weeks. I used it in the buggy a couple of frustrating times and declared war on all of my foils. That's when I gutted the quiver and bought ns2's

Demoknight - 12-1-2015 at 11:47 AM

Not to change the subject too much, but where did Black Betty end up?

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 12:14 PM

I think Riffclown ended up with one of them...

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 12:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Very tough call. The 7 is a size I haven't had before and I really like it. Although, I've never had an 8.5 either.


I found that the 5.5m - 8.6m with foils covered a good range, but I often wanted something in between A. to have something just a little smaller than the 8.6m and just a little bigger than 5.5m and B. well... just because :D.

With the "depower" ability of the NS3s I'm thinking this will be a decent set to cover all ranges.

ssayre - 12-1-2015 at 12:54 PM

Pistol Pete has black Betty. She's breathing some north west ocean air.

Riff has Jason's old one.

John Holgate - 12-1-2015 at 02:01 PM

Can't comment too much on line lengths, but when I first had the 4m, I put it up on 6m lines and was a little underwhelmed by it's power. Swapped to 20m lines and it was a completely different beast. Careful comparing these directly to foils ie: my 4m Method needs 15 knots to 25 knots. The 4m NS2 does the same job in 10 knots to 20 knots (although 20's getting to be a handful). My 7m NS2 is good to go from about 7 knots to 13ish.

Having said that, I did run the 4m NS2 side by side with Clive and his 4m Octane and there was only ever a couple of kph difference between them - I was faster in the bottom end and Clive had the advantage when the wind picked up.

Rumor is that you can win the NS3 in the video with bar and lines (it will be brand-spanking new though). No other details yet - when I know more, I'll let you know. Those colors look kinda familiar though......:D

ssayre - 12-1-2015 at 02:24 PM

Your Australian wind must be better than ours. the 4m in 10 knots wouldn't budge my fatness. 20 knots would be kicking my tail.

John Holgate - 12-1-2015 at 02:54 PM


Quote:

Your Australian wind must be better than ours.


Could easily be. (different, I mean) More moisture or cooler/denser air definitely packs more punch. I'm told when QLD'ers come down south to kitesurf in Victoria, they usually have to drop a size kite for the same winds.

I've also had days where I've been well powered in cooler winds, whereas the same wind speeds on warmer/drier days are not as powerful.

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 04:27 PM

Really enjoying this thread!

Bladerunner - 12-1-2015 at 04:37 PM

What are red, yellow and blue loops at the leading edge for ?

I will guess for storing your bridles tangle free.

ssayre - 12-1-2015 at 04:48 PM

Bladerunner you are correct.

PHREERIDER - 12-1-2015 at 06:33 PM

nice , answered a ton of questions

and the only question i have, the NS3 v. npw5 on a bar...is the NS(3) more front line biased than NPW5?

seem to recall NPW5 definitely needed to be balanced front to back on the handles esp. when i used it with a strop.

how does all this play into the Nasa star version on a bar ? i remember the 2 line set up but never went that route for use

soliver - 12-1-2015 at 06:55 PM

The Z bridle option seems to be the answer to that issue, Phree. It puts the kite into 2 line mode, but the are separated such that pressure on the brake lines puts extra pressure on the rear bridles braking the kite... Check out BigE's thread.
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29696

John Holgate - 12-1-2015 at 06:58 PM


Quote:

seem to recall NPW5 definitely needed to be balanced front to back on the handles esp. when i used it with a strop.


While I haven't tried this with an NS3 yet, I can tell you that I also had to balance front to back when flying the NS2 on handles. As soon as I started to let off trailing edge tension, things started getting 'flappy' fast.

Z bridle is the easy way out there for handles with the NS2.

Then again, the NS2 (and I assume the NS3 (need to test in a bit more wind)) reverse launches fairly easily on 2 lines so I don't really feel the need to have the extra control that handles do provide.

Vid of the NS2 on handles (no Z) here: NS 2 on handles I have no reason to suspect the NS3 will differ too much.

3shot - 12-1-2015 at 07:00 PM

Wow. These several threads have me in a Nasa Star euphoria. Lol. I can't wait to put up the 7m.

That's exactly what I want to try as well Sean. The yellow ball. I'd love to rig up and adjustable stop for just what you are saying. I want to be able to eat cake and watch some TV while I buggy lmao. I can already see a need for an adjustable ball stop at jibe. Don't want to be too overpower in one direction down the beach. And don't want to have to run a few miles unhooked holding all the kites depower. Kinda what I've been saying all along. To be able to lock in a set depowered position in one direction if needed, then adjust for full power back up wind.

ssayre - 12-1-2015 at 08:46 PM


Quote:

nice , answered a ton of questions and the only question i have, the NS3 v. npw5 on a bar...is the NS(3) more front line biased than NPW5? seem to recall NPW5 definitely needed to be balanced front to back on the handles esp. when i used it with a strop. how does all this play into the Nasa star version on a bar ? i remember the 2 line set up but never went that route for use


difference between the npw5 and nasa star on a bar is the 3rd line to the nose on a nasa star. This allows for partial or full depower. Other than that, the nasa star flies like a 2 line kite on a bar unless you have the nasa star pro depower which I think john has the only one in existence :) or you split the bridles and convert to 4 line. His video from narrowong and this video are 2 completely different bar set ups. You could rig a npw5 on a bar by having dual leaders on each side of bar so kite is balanced than connect a strop with qr and Y the brake lines to a kite killer of some kind. John has rigged his ns2's that way before.

His pro depower bar is a complete setup with lines and fancy pulleys on the kite side. I'm still not exactly sure how it works but he said it splits the power evenly to the harness between the center lines and brake lines so that it functions more similarly to a actual depower.

The most common set up is the 3 line "depower" which is what I have and what john is using on his narrowong trip video. All power is on the outside of bar and kite flies as 2 line with a 3rd line that activates partial or full depower depending on what you do.

Sorry that was a mouthful, but john has videos explaining each which will help. They are a little confusing at first. I don't think you could rig a npw5 like a nasa star without the nose bridle. Maybe that could be added but I'm not sure if it would work. :puzzled:

Jason, I agree. I love seeing the dot beside a nasa thread glowing green :D:D

PistolPete - 12-1-2015 at 10:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Pistol Pete has Black Betty. She's breathing some north west ocean air.

Riff has Jason's old one.


She does like that long fetch light & clean beach wind. Strop line on handles worked but I prefer the Ozone Turbo Bar safety/brake handle-line features. When it gets janky she goes back in the sack.

Enjoying the posts on the new NS3s. Nice to see the new single skin kite advantages getting more tuned and tested.

John Holgate - 13-1-2015 at 03:17 AM

As to using the depower function constantly...... it wasn't really designed with us buggiers in mind and as such, I feel that depowered, the kite sits back in the window and slows down - not quite what I want for the buggy at speed. Ok for the streetkiting usage where they're not usually travelling as fast and a bit of extra drag is not a bad thing but perhaps not suited to the buggy. Hence, I only tend to use it as a primary safety. Give it a whirl and see what you think....

soliver - 13-1-2015 at 05:43 AM

Once again... great thread

U.S. distributor

dman - 13-1-2015 at 06:41 AM

Who is carrying these in the U.S.?

ssayre - 13-1-2015 at 06:54 AM

Crash then swim on here used to but I don't think he has stocking any. I talked to him a few months back. I have talked to Steffen about being a distributor for him here, but not sure yet If I actually will. I'm still working on the details.

Myself and 3shot have ordered direct from born-kite in Germany which is easy to do by emailing Steffen. You just have to allow anywhere from 2 - 5 weeks for delivery

PHREERIDER - 13-1-2015 at 07:27 AM

thanks for details and thread ref.

one rainy no wind day mod job is at hand , thanks!

soliver - 13-1-2015 at 09:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dman  
Who is carrying these in the U.S.?


Yeah, like Sean said, we were told crash then swim was, I emailed him about a week + ago and haven't hard a thing from him...

Seems like the best bet is ordering from Born Kite in Germany.
The shipping is obvious more expensive than if there were a US distributer, but they aren't outrageous. To North America its 35 Eur for under 5kg and then 45 Eur up to 10kg details here: http://www.venturi-power.de/shop_content.php?coID=1

I'm in the market for a 3 kite quiver and will be posting my 5.5m RII and my 8.6m RII for sale soon to pay for them.

John, can you tell us again what makes the pro depower bar different from the 3 line depower bar... i see the Pro has some pulleys and such, but i can't well see how they operate differently.

Prussik - 13-1-2015 at 09:45 AM


Quote:

As to using the depower function constantly...... it wasn't really designed with us buggiers in mind and as such, I feel that depowered, the kite sits back in the window and slows down - not quite what I want for the buggy at speed. Ok for the streetkiting usage where they're not usually travelling as fast and a bit of extra drag is not a bad thing but perhaps not suited to the buggy. Hence, I only tend to use it as a primary safety. Give it a whirl and see what you think....


NS, just as other Nasas I have tried, have too steep AOA and too much trailing edge pull in my opinion. This results in narrowing of window and more parasitic side pull. So in the original configuration depowering contributes to these unfavourable features. However in my NS 2.4 (the decimal indicates the phases of mods I made to them) I frequently kite with a pre-set depower without noticeably loosing any upwind ability – something I am quite surprised by and quite unexpected. This allows me to use a larger kite than I would normally do with a conventional foil. So I find the dynamic use of depower very useful, as well as the additional control with the brakes the handles provide.

John Holgate - 13-1-2015 at 02:01 PM


Quote:

John, can you tell us again what makes the pro depower bar different from the 3 line depower bar.


On a normal bar, pull the bar in and shorten the rear lines, which also makes the center lines longer....so to speak. But, both lines on the pro depower bar are joined via a pulley setup - so it actually makes no difference to the kite. Except that the brake function is attached to one of the lines - so letting the bar out, pulls the nose line in. As both the 'front' & 'rear' lines are actually joined together at the kite, the overall pull is split between them. So if you fly with the bar released, there is still 50% of the power going to your harness via the center lines instead of all being on the bar as per the 3 line bar. There's also the safety/bar release right at your thumb which is very easy to release and the std chicken loop instead of the trapeze so I don't think there's any reason you can't spin the bar if released (although it's still carrying 50% of the power) Even though you've got a four line bar, the kite is really only in a two line configuration plus the short depower line.

I still get a little confused when I look at it! Hope that makes sense....

soliver - 13-1-2015 at 04:30 PM

So what difference does it make to flying the kite from the standard NS2/NS3 depower bar? Does the action of the pro depower bar effect the way the kite handles at all?

John Holgate - 13-1-2015 at 04:44 PM

Hooked in, nope, no difference. Kite itself behaves and performs exactly the same way as the std 3 line bar.

soliver - 13-1-2015 at 05:28 PM

Thanks John

ssayre - 16-1-2015 at 12:10 PM

Phreerider, this is the video where it looks like John has his nasa wing set up in four line mode but has it set up on a bar. I would assume this would work the same way on an npw.

John, how did you like this method? I'm asking mainly to see if you think it would work well other types of nasa wings.





John Holgate - 16-1-2015 at 03:21 PM

It worked ok but I've gone back to the std & pro depower set ups. When I first tried it, I didn't use the z bridle and the drag on the brake lines would cause the kite to reverse at speed - not good! Then I rigged it with the z bridle so it flew as per normal 2 line but I could pull brakes with the brake strap. The depower line was not used and all four line ended up on the bar ends.

John Holgate - 17-1-2015 at 04:11 AM

Clocked a 56.7kph with the NS3 3.2m today in 16? Knots slightly cross on shore. Was surprised by that - would've been expecting 48ish maybe with the NS2's. So I think the NS3's may definitely be a bit quicker. Excellent reverse launching and sitting on the edge of the window too. Getting a bit of footage which I'll put together when I get home in a couple weeks.

bigE123 - 17-1-2015 at 04:32 AM

With a Z-bridle fitted to an NPW they work very well on a Turbo bar.

Keep up the good work on the reviews and footage John good to read / see.

soliver - 17-1-2015 at 06:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate  
Clocked a 56.7kph with the NS3 3.2m today in 16? Knots slightly cross on shore. Was surprised by that - would've been expecting 48ish maybe with the NS2's. So I think the NS3's may definitely be a bit quicker. Excellent reverse launching and sitting on the edge of the window too. Getting a bit of footage which I'll put together when I get home in a couple weeks.


Rad! I'm excited to see that

3shot - 17-1-2015 at 06:26 PM

I think it was your Shoot The Breeze video you were cooking in as well with the 2.5. Love that vid. You pulled a killer power slide as well. I'm addicted to your Nasa videos. Keep them coming John!

John Holgate - 18-1-2015 at 02:45 PM

Hmmm.... The NS3's speed record didn't last long! Got a 58kph with the 2.5 Ns2 in 15-20 knots on the claypan. Would have cracked 60 if I'd had the NS3 in a 2.5. I'm seriously thinking of selling the Methods and Access to fund a full set of NS3's....

ssayre - 18-1-2015 at 02:49 PM


Quote:

Hmmm.... The NS3's speed record didn't last long! Got a 58kph with the 2.5 Ns2 in 15-20 knots on the claypan. Would have cracked 60 if I'd had the NS3 in a 2.5. I'm seriously thinking of selling the Methods and Access to fund a full set of NS3's....


I have been seriously considering selling the peak for a couple of sizes in the ns3's that I'm lacking in my ns2 quiver.

Note to new people, It's more important to cover a wide wind range than have a variety of kites IMO.

soliver - 18-1-2015 at 03:49 PM

Awesome... My RIIs will be going up for sale before the end of the week.

3shot - 18-1-2015 at 05:05 PM

Same here Sean. Will probably move my arcs as well...

ssayre - 18-1-2015 at 05:11 PM

Are you going to save one for jibe?

3shot - 18-1-2015 at 05:54 PM

I have the 8m Yeti. Dunno yet. They really are collecting dust...

dangerdan - 19-1-2015 at 03:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Yeah, hey John... I had trouble hearing you and the bit about the "rumor" regarding the 3.2m. Mind commenting?


I emailed Borne-kite ... Its 140 euros and I'm assuming its the same color as the one in John's video (see first 10 seconds). Borne kite gave me a price but not how to order as its not on their site. I'll have to wait for a response.

John Holgate - 19-1-2015 at 04:12 PM

The 3.2m is a custom size and not listed. The color scheme is for a competition and a one-off. I hope to announce the details next month. Till then, stay tuned! (Born kite is not running this comp but have very generously supplied the custom colored NS3).

3shot - 19-1-2015 at 04:21 PM

Man I would love to score that 3.2 :evil:

soliver - 19-1-2015 at 09:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot  
Man I would love to score that 3.2 :evil:


Ditto kiddo... you've already got plenty Jason... now its my turn :evil:

btw... anybody wanna buy some Reactors? :smilegrin:

ssayre - 20-1-2015 at 06:53 AM

Me too, I'm really looking forward to see what this competition is about.

dangerdan - 20-1-2015 at 08:50 AM

I just ordered the Nasa Star 3.2M from Steffen. It will be here in 2 weeks. :):)

1 Nasa Star 3.2m
1 Bag
1 Z bridle

Total cost including shipping 185 EU

3shot - 20-1-2015 at 04:34 PM

Two weeks?? They've always held orders for 7 business days. Then its the joy of customs!!! Realistically about 3-4. At least my experiences.

Don't think it will be there in two weeks, but I do hope so!! Maybe Canada's customs are much faster.

ssayre - 20-1-2015 at 04:44 PM

Ah Jason, you spoiled the fun, I was going to let him suffer with uncertainty like I did the first time when it took somewhere around 5-6 weeks. :D

Seriously, best you can hope for is 3 weeks in my experience with 3 orders

dangerdan - 20-1-2015 at 05:05 PM

LOL
I'll let you guys know when it arrives.... We will see who is right.
:thumbup::thumbup:

Randy - 20-1-2015 at 05:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Ah Jason, you spoiled the fun, I was going to let him suffer with uncertainty like I did the first time when it took somewhere around 5-6 weeks. :D

Seriously, best you can hope for is 3 weeks in my experience with 3 orders



Same for me. Paypal has a 45 day limit for goods not delivered and it didn't arrive until day 45. Mine was stuck in a post office in NJ for more than 5 weeks. The tracking info kept coming back with same (pretty useless) report for weeks. I really thought that it was lost or destroyed by the USPS.

3shot - 20-1-2015 at 06:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Ah Jason, you spoiled the fun, I was going to let him suffer with uncertainty like I did the first time when it took somewhere around 5-6 weeks. :D

Seriously, best you can hope for is 3 weeks in my experience with 3 orders



Same for me. Paypal has a 45 day limit for goods not delivered and it didn't arrive until day 45. Mine was stuck in a post office in NJ for more than 5 weeks. The tracking info kept coming back with same (pretty useless) report for weeks. I really thought that it was lost or destroyed by the USPS.


Dude!! That is my story bang on! Just ask ssayre. Every week he would ask about my Nasa Star status. Every week I would say "still stuck in Jersey".... LMAO.

By no means am I giving bad PR to Borne Kites!!!! I'm just saying don't expext them in the mailbox the next day. Our postal system is less than stellar most times. Especially with customs! :mad: :lol: :lol: :lol:

riffclown - 20-1-2015 at 06:35 PM

The "stuck in a post office" is probably the package status while the item is clearing customs..

3shot - 20-1-2015 at 06:41 PM

My last shipment cleared NY's customs in two days. Then limbo for weeks in the next state over...

dangerdan - 20-1-2015 at 07:40 PM

We shall see if Canada customs is any better..LOL

soliver - 21-1-2015 at 07:19 AM

I emailed Steffen to ask about "custom" sizes and his replay was that they added 2 weeks onto the expected delivery. Not sure if thats different for y'all Canadians, but hey, here's hoping!!

dangerdan - 21-1-2015 at 08:46 AM

This is what the Email said.

Upon receipt of the purchase amount, the activation of NST-3- / 3.2sqm special production is done in our tailoring with a production time of 2 weeks

It looks like I read that wrong. 2 weeks to produce and then shipping and customs on top of that. :(:(

soliver - 21-1-2015 at 09:04 AM

bummer... sorry bud :no:

3shot - 21-1-2015 at 10:46 AM

Either way, the kites are well worth the wait.

alf - 24-1-2015 at 03:46 AM

Nasawing on dépower bar is cool. I can hold the 13 sqm up to 4 beaufort
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nodlr87NcSM

soliver - 24-1-2015 at 11:06 AM

Hey John, any more to say on the 3.2m competition yet?

bigE123 - 24-1-2015 at 12:34 PM

Hang on! Let me get this right..... 13 sqm in 13 - 17mph wind. Is that on short lines? On 25m lines with my 11.5sqm I'd be crossing the Atlantic waving to Renny as I passed over!

John Holgate - 24-1-2015 at 03:28 PM

I hope to officially announce the ns3 comp info last half of Feb so stay tuned.

As for Beaufort 4 with a 13m.... Must be really dry air. At 14 knots I've got my hands full with the 7m NS2.

Coming back from Kingston today so some more NS3 info and video in a couple of days.

alf - 24-1-2015 at 03:29 PM

Do you use a depower bar ? When you let the bar out the wing flatten like a flag and you can repower a bit to go further here the wind is very gusty but i m not sure about wind speed that s what i feel about it but i beleive i can handle the wing it with 20 kmh wind , riding depowered wiht 20 m lines
on my video their must be 3 beaufort

John Holgate - 24-1-2015 at 11:36 PM

Alf, see this vid for an explanation of the NS2's depower bar. Pro Depower bar

alf - 25-1-2015 at 04:21 AM

i hav seen your vid several times but hard for me to understand i use this bar in an older version :
i quit never had to release , i simply depower and land when it s to much
http://www.kiteattitude.com/france/universal_control_bar.htm

front lines in the center , brakes lines at the ends
i use the same bar with the synergy 15 but i hav not riden the synergy very offen

now my favorite set up is : 5 mfront lines in the hook , brake lines (fixed together) in hands, no bar ; it depowers completly

in a sense it s the same as this without shoulder steering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4tvA-nJNIU

i want to try with the synergy so i could jump

bigE123 - 25-1-2015 at 05:16 AM

No problem Alf, it's just quoting "I can hold.... in this wind" my be taken literally by a newbie. In my experience unless you have a depower set-up on the kite (NPWs not Nasa Stars) the releasing of the brakes is not a de-power option, as you say it takes the tension off the TE and the kite is not fully inflated, I do this if it's sitting up at the zenith, however when using it for traction I find a partially inflated kite is not really under full control and is less predictable..... I'd change down a size rather than have an over powered kite or one that is flapping around because it's too big for the conditions.

alf - 26-1-2015 at 07:15 AM

13 m in such winds is more surviving than kiting but i offen do it cause i don t like to change the kite , to much work for me and i hav only a 4,1 sqm nasa i prefer to put the lines of when their is to much wind
good rides to all

Darknessnam - 26-1-2015 at 05:08 PM

Just got my NS3's!!! Ordered the 2.5 and the 4m on Dec 27, and they arrived in the mail today. Flaked the 2.5 out on the floor in my basement and had a good look at her. Fantastic build quality 😃. Laser straight stitches and no thread hangers. Lovely. I primarily fly static, but I can't wait to get out on the snowboard with these!

@ dangerdan - glad you're getting one too. These will look awesome in the sky together at the field.

@John Holgtate - you are a bad man for posting those great videos and making me want these..lol. Keep it up!

dangerdan - 26-1-2015 at 05:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Darknessnam  
Just got my NS3's!!! Ordered the 2.5 and the 4m on Dec 27, and they arrived in the mail today. Flaked the 2.5 out on the floor in my basement and had a good look at her. Fantastic build quality 😃. Laser straight stitches and no thread hangers. Lovely. I primarily fly static, but I can't wait to get out on the snowboard with these!

@ dangerdan - glad you're getting one too. These will look awesome in the sky together at the field.

@John Holgtate - you are a bad man for posting those great videos and making me want these..lol. Keep it up!


I hate you...you got yours first

dangerdan - 28-1-2015 at 06:32 PM

I was reviewing a few videos on how to fly the Nasa Star 2 on handles.
Why can't the middle depower line be connected to 2 pigtails and run each line to the brakes on the handle rather than use the Z bridle.

John Holgate - 28-1-2015 at 08:51 PM

I think you could...but you wouldn't want the extra weight of two lines on the depower line - it's very sensitive and any extra weight will start to fold the nose over. So I think you'd be best splitting the line close to the handles.

Much, much better to rig std four line/Z bridle method. Then you can actually make use of the brakes either to dump the kite on via killers or just reef some brake on, or land the kite with the brakes.

I only find the depower function useful as a primary safety in the buggy. I think it was designed more with streetkiting and low rolling resistance/short lines in mind. In the buggy, it slows the kite and sits it back in the window which is not what I want. But worth experimenting with if you're not in the buggy.

I re-tried the Ozone Turbo bar on the 2.5 NS2 today with Z bridles - nope, turns far too fast for me and I thought I had the brakes dialed right off. Musta still had too much brake input going into the trailing edge. Safety worked well though.

dangerdan - 29-1-2015 at 07:16 AM

Thanks John

Prussik - 31-1-2015 at 08:49 AM


Quote:

I was reviewing a few videos on how to fly the Nasa Star 2 on handles.
Why can't the middle depower line be connected to 2 pigtails and run each line to the brakes on the handle rather than use the Z bridle.

This would result in steering action affecting the depower. This can be overcome by a pulley arrangement but that would mean holding on to both handles which is an uncomfortable way of flying. When overpowered (i.e. that’s when you need the depower function) quite a bit of tension is needed to depower and therefore it would be very uncomfortable to hold the handles at an angle for any length of time. Besides, there would not be enough input from the handle orientation to provide effective depower from conventional length handles. Some tension is required to activate the depower so the the weight of the lines is irrelevant. In fact little slack is needed on depower line, much less than on brake lines. In my NS 2.4’s I have the 5-th line connected to my harness with a sliding/locking device which allows me to have 0 pull on my arms and still have the depower function. This makes it nicer than a “true” depower and is the main advantage of handles over the bar for these kites. I disagree with the characterization of the depower function as suitable for “streetkiting” only. The depower function has nothing to do with the surface drag or line length. And in spite of its primitive origin it works remarkably well and it does not affect the window width or upwind ability in a significant degree PROVIDING the kite does not have these undesirable tendencies to begin with. The depower function significantly increases the wind range of these kites which is important since, in my experience, aggressive flying is not as effective for them as for good FB’s as means of extending the range. So I find myself flying NS’s much more often parked ( often depowered to a degree ) and bigger then I would normally fly a FB relying on flying to generate additional pull when needed as means of extending the range.

ssayre - 31-1-2015 at 09:10 AM

I'm not sure I agree with line drag being irrelevant. I've tried the ns2's on 40 meter lines on the 3 line depower bar and line drag caused the center line to depower the nose partially no matter how I tuned it. The nose depower function is sensitive. However, I haven't tried putting very light 80 lb line to the nose which I theorize might work, but doubling standard linesets does not work due to the line drag. Also, the linesets I tried were standard pl linesets without the knot sleeves. I would guess doubling 2 born kite linesets with knot sleeves would make the problem even worse. (knot sleeves have no negative effects up to 25m lines.)

Prussik - 31-1-2015 at 12:02 PM

I do not fly NS on a bar so I do not believe everything I think but what I think is that this tendency to nose collapse (and perceived sensitivity to line tension) may have something to do with how the depower line is connected in a loop with the power lines and does not have enough slack. This arrangement is not quite the same as my free hanging 5-th line. If this argument does not hold water then I should make it clear that my 2.4’s are substantially modified 2’s. And yes, I use very thin 3 lines. As I said, even with very little slack on depower line I have no problem with the nose and I have to clearly increase the tension before I see any depower effect.

John Holgate - 31-1-2015 at 03:53 PM


Quote:

then I should make it clear that my 2.4’s are substantially modified 2’s.


I think that may well be the source of what you're finding is completely different to what I'm finding.

What you are posting may be confusing some people - we are talking about the standard Nasa Star 3, and mostly on the stock bar setup. Not a modified NS2 on handles with a 5th line setup.

Prussik - 2-2-2015 at 09:36 AM


The question I responded to had nothing to do with a stock bar setup and was equally applicable to NS2 as to NS3. Neither the statement:

Quote:
I only find the depower function useful as a primary safety in the buggy.



implied that it only applied to NS3 (and not to NS2) on a bar (not on handles). It that were to be the case then NS3 would be a step backwards from NS2 and the use of a bar would not make much sense. Without an effective depower NS 2 or 3 on a bar is nothing more than an ordinary NPW5 on 2 lines and the use of handles is by far the superior alternative. Fortunately, the depower is quite effective, much more so when the kite is modified to fly wider and more like a good FB.

Having a moment of reflection on the issue of depower line tension I am more than before inclined to dismiss the possibility that my mods are the source of the difference of opinion. If anything the effect would be the opposite since my 2.4’s sit wider in the window. On the other hand the way the bar works, any slack in the depower line would be undesirable because it would adversely affect the range of depower. So my guess is that there is actually quite a bit of tension in the depower line creating an illusion of overly sensitive control. Whether this is true or not can be easily verified by any bar flier by observing the depower line deflection.

John Holgate - 2-2-2015 at 01:37 PM

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

Depower on the NS2 and NS3 feels about the same and I still don't like pulling any depower at speed in the buggy - I don't like how the kites handles (which is about the only thing I don't like about them) when depowered and I feel that they're on the edge of back stalling. But I find it excellent as a primary 'oh #@%$#!' safety.

Yes, I fly it basically as a two line kite on a bar. (stock NS 2/3 setup) Handles are superior if you need that extra control - for me in the buggy, the kite does everything I need it to do and I'm very relaxed flying it on a bar, so handles are not necessary or superior for my use but yes, they will allow more control if you rig the kite up as a four line.

And on my depower lines (stock NS2 and NS3) there is very little or no tension nor can the line tolerate any extra weight. And as a bar flier who has many times observed the depower line deflection/nose deflection when applying pressure to the center line, I'd like to think you'd take my word for it. And if not, watch the videos.

Prussik - 3-2-2015 at 08:53 AM

No reason to doubt what you are saying – we all discuss the issues in good faith, don’t we ?. That would mean that the adjustments to B2 and B3 made the difference. This possibility I did consider but it obviously was not on top of the list. Good to know.

John Holgate - 3-2-2015 at 11:27 PM

I am most likely not giving the depower function of the Nasa Star's the credit that it deserves - the depower system is certainly designed for more than just the primary safety which I use it for. Mind you, even fully powered, I find the 2.5m & 3.2m 3 more forgiving and relaxing to fly than my Ozone Access 4m albeit in a narrower wind range as the Access can cover 17 - 30 knots and more if you're skilled where as the 3.2m is good from around 13 knots to the low 20's. (in the bug). Even as a fixed bridle, it's still a pretty good wind range.

Prussik, I wish I was able to fly your modified Nasa Stars - my earlier efforts to reduce the AOA slightly were a bit crude and not particularly successful and I feel the NS3's could be getting close to the perfect kite (at least for me) if they could sit a little further forward at speed which your mods sound like they've gone a long way towards achieving. I'd also like to see the 5 line/handle setup in action - I can't quite see it in my head.

The Nasa Stars may be bridled with such a steep angle of attack to enable the reverse launch when used in two line mode ?? It certainly keeps everything simple and easy to use.

bigE123 - 4-2-2015 at 02:04 AM

I imagine the Nasa Stars are pretty comparable to their NPW counter parts, from what I've tried out on my NPWs you'd be surprised at how little the AoA range is before you get into nose collapsing/wing flapping and back-stalling. When I de-powered my larger ones (8m & 11.5m) I found that keeping the wing edge bridles fixed and allowing the main body AoA to change keeps the stability, which is why I reckon the NS's use the centre to de-power and let the wings keep it flying. Obviously with the centre AoA changing the window does increase to the point it will just start to over fly at the zenith.

Whilst the design looks very simplistic there is a lot going on in terms of AoA and profile shape, which is why they intrigue me and keep niggling away in the back of my brain :D

soliver - 16-2-2015 at 10:35 AM

Ok John,... I believe one could officially make the argument that it is the latter half of the month of February, ...what's the skinny on winning the 3.2m NS3?????????

inquiring minds want to know :o:o:o

John Holgate - 16-2-2015 at 01:18 PM

Waiting on and getting the bugs out of some software at the moment, Spencer. I'm hoping we're only a few weeks away from being able to formally announce something. Without giving too much away, the comp and the software are connected - I'm as keen as anyone to get the whole show on the road. Soon..... :)

soliver - 16-2-2015 at 01:19 PM

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

dangerdan - 24-2-2015 at 09:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate  
Waiting on and getting the bugs out of some software at the moment, Spencer. I'm hoping we're only a few weeks away from being able to formally announce something. Without giving too much away, the comp and the software are connected - I'm as keen as anyone to get the whole show on the road. Soon..... :)


Don't bother with the announcement.

I won the Nasa Star 3 3.2m. What a nice Kite. :D:D
It came with a bag, HQ handles., kite line and Z bridle.

I cant do this to you guys. The kite that I ordered Jan 20 2015, just arrived at the door .... :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Hey John we're still waiting for the announcement. I could use a spare kite. ::lol:

3shot - 24-2-2015 at 11:16 AM

If I win John, I will gladly donate it to Soliver, a deserving person of a Nasa Star.

soliver - 24-2-2015 at 11:23 AM

Wow Jason... I appreciate that :thumbup:

excited to get a chance to win it myself!!!

ssayre - 24-2-2015 at 06:42 PM





Steffen's new video on the upwind ability of the ns3. He seems to like flying straight off the bar.

3shot - 26-2-2015 at 07:16 AM

Good Lord. We got 8" of fresh snow. I really need a board and a street bar setup!!!!

soliver - 26-2-2015 at 08:59 AM

Been snowing the last 2 days here in Hotlanta... blasted global warming :lol:

Nothing like 8" though... just the big fat snowflakes the size of a half dollar.... that kind of thing is super rare here... Maybe 1-3" max and already melted. It sure is purdy though.

soliver - 1-3-2015 at 06:36 PM

Hey John, waiting with baited breath!!!!

:o:o:o:o

John Holgate - 3-3-2015 at 03:22 PM

It's taking a little longer than I previously thought. But fear not, the kite is safe and sound all sealed in it's plastic bag and when the comp starts, I'll run it for a month and make sure everyone knows about it :D
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