Hi guys..
I have been flying a prism hypnotist (stunt kite) and wish to try power kiting. I have looked at Prism Tensor 5.0m but I realise this will not give me
huge air time as a 95kg male.
I have looked at kitesurfing, landboarding... but paragliding seems much more fun than both of these activities. How can surfing on waves be better
than floating 100m above sea level? isn't it better to save the $500 and just buy a $2-3k kite for paragliding or hang gliding
I mean there is almost no point buying a small cheap kite you won't use after you have purchased the really expensive kite? also if you buy too many
small kites it would take you much longer to save up to buy a $2000 kite.
Is it better to make small progression through kite sizes or just save up and go straight onto a large expensive kite with depower? paragliding seems
much more fun than kitesurfing and I can have a complete aerial view of a landscape and use gopro cameras to get some great footage.BigMikesKites - 1-12-2014 at 04:16 AM
Not many of us here could tell you much about paragliding. Its a different sport. For none of our activities will one kite do it all. Different
winds at different times and different user skill levels all come into play. You will fly the small kites just as often if not more than you will
fly the large kites. And then you will want something for the gap in between. It is true for each aspect of our sport. buggies, landboarding,
kitesurfing, and just flying static.
Paragliding looks cool and if I lived near some place where it happened, I would probably do that. But I live in nice flat Texas and there just
isn't a place to go do that kind of stuff, so I stick with the kites.
Keep us posted on what you do.
As for your progression through kites, your next step should be like a 3m kite. Hornet, Beamer, Tensor. Something like that. Learn the
control of the kite (much different than the stunt kite) and then you can move up in size or on to depower.
Of course if you go paragliding......soliver - 1-12-2014 at 05:37 AM
The only similarity between paragliding and Power kiting is the "para" part of it.
Paragliding is done with PARAchutes and we use kites that are PARAfoil. Paragliders are parachutes NOT kites. Even though many of the guys in all of
the kiting disciplines work to get air, they are primarily on the ground (or the water). Paragliders can be considered very small manned aircraft. As
kiters we are essentially using our kites as sails to power our craft (buggy, land board, snowboard, kite board, boat, butt.. etc)
In essence, the 2 are similar in that the equipment looks the same, but its very different. There IS some cross over at times cuz a lot of guys DO
both, but they utilize different skills.
As far as a "progression through kite sizes" I think you might be off the mark a little. We use different kite sizes to suite different wind
conditions, i.e. bigger kites is slower windspeed, smaller kites in higher windspeed. The only "progression" there is is that we always recommend that
people start with a small foil (2, 3, or sometimes 4 meter) to learn how to control the kite then move up to the bigger sizes.This keeps you from
getting seriously spanked by a big kite because you're not 100% sure of how to control it.
If you are interested in Paragliding, I'm sure one of the guys here could recommend another forum, but this is not the right spot.
If you're really interested in Power Kiting, let us know and we will be glad to help direct you in getting started.
EDIT: thanks for correcting me BigE... that is something I did not know, Paragliders are so closely associated with Parachutes that I made an
assumption. (see below)
So to correct myself Paragliders are big-@ss wings for flying, NOT KITESbigE123 - 1-12-2014 at 06:59 AM
Interesting responses, in terms of the original question: If paragliding / hang gliding is what you want then power kiting is not a starting point for
you, it's a completely different sport, the kite is primarily for traction and a side effect is you can also get lift when it's sent straight up.
Paragliders are much bigger in size to what we would use for power because of the amount of lift they have to produce and maintain. A paraglider is
not a parachute, they too are different beasts, one is to get you down in a controlled manor the other is to produce more lift and keep you up longer
and glide. Obviously there are also parafoils for greater manoeuvrability than a parachute.
There are cross-overs in the whole para whatever and kite design as they all have a common goal: to create a wing to do a job. The NASA re-entry chute
design led to the NPW kites and hang gliders. Do plenty of reading up and if possible try various aspects of power kiting and parachuting /
paragliding / parascending.
You will get plenty of help and advice to help you on your way :D Good luck! lucifer911 - 1-12-2014 at 07:26 AM
thanks for the responses.
I am confused on why a distinction needs to be made between power kiting and paragliding when they look identical? I have seen a lot of questions on
how to get the best air time in power kiting. A lot of people want to stay in the air as long as possible so I'm not sure why paragliding is
overlooked?
I have looked at hang gliding too but to transport a hang glider around (they weigh 100lbs) and the aluminium frame makes it difficult to walk with.
Paragliding you seem to get the best of both worlds. Easy to transport and gives the air time 99% of power kiters seem to seek.
I am also trying to make a smart financial distinction. I have about $2000 to spend on a kite and I want something which can give me a lot of air
time. The problem is I don't have any experience in power kiting and paragliding seems to cost closer to $4000-$5000 including a harness.
I have looked at Prism Tensor 5.0m.. the reason I am opting for a large size kite is because of my 95kg weight. I have heard a 3.0m would not pull a
90kg male on a buggy or landboard. So to summarise I am looking at kiting with a $2,000 budget, have no experience and weigh 95kg.
Just not sure which kite to go for first...ssayre - 1-12-2014 at 07:43 AM
Kiting does not equal paragliding. They are totally different activities. Kiting can be done more often and in more areas. Paragliding, I assume,
needs some sort of hill or powered assistance.
With kiting, you use different size kites relative to the wind speed so the size of kite is based on that and much less on the weight of rider. Not
every kiter is interested in jumping at all. Some use their kites strictly for traction. Some like to see how fast they can make their kite powered
vehicle go. Some like to jump. Some only like to fly static and be dragged around a bit. Kiting is it's own unique activity with endless ways to
enjoy it.
Paragliding might be slightly related, but completely different. Did I mention paragliding is completely different?
Also, as already mentioned, I don't think you would need to start with kiting at all if paragliding is the goal.Bladerunner - 1-12-2014 at 08:15 AM
We don't get the type of air time you think we do with kites. Winners of " big air " contests only get about 7 seconds of float at best. These are
Pro's and they are on water or the side of a mountain. A typical jump only lasts a second or 2.
As others have mentioned there is very little crossover between the 2 sports. Money spent on kites will take money away from your goal. If Paragliding
is your goal I suggest you spend ( a big part of ) the money you have on the REQUIRED paragliding training. If you find you are hooked, you will find
the money to continue.
One of these things is not like the others...
skimtwashington - 1-12-2014 at 08:34 AM
From a distance and right(wrong) angle the powerkite and Paraglider look similar in a quick snapshot...not identical. Certainly the use is not
identical-in reference to you saying 'they look identical'.
Most powerkiters do not get air or are interested in air for land use. More interest on the water in Kitesurfing....sure...but even
there...no where near '99%'.
Take interest in all the sports you mentioned...but they are distinctly separate.
You learn powerkiting-generally- on a 3m kite. This is a step on the learning curve. You do not go out on your first day and start jumping, standing
or sitting on some 'vehicle' with wheels...racing down a beach or field...you just learn to fly-with little power(or pull) .
Similarly Paragliders first learn raising the canopy up on flat ground over and over. no flying..till later.
You cannot use one Power kite for all conditions, regarding size you should get. Start with one to learn with. Being on smaller size
this will later be kite you use in high(er) winds.
If you don't think a 3m in the right wind can pull you(95kg or bigger)..and fast ..it will. You might be surprised by some land speeds(past and
present records) made with 'smaller' kites.
Feyd - 1-12-2014 at 09:16 AM
There are a lot of parallels and differences in power kite and para glider design. And a good number of people I know who kite are also para pilots
of skydivers. Apparently attracted to anything made of ripstop and Dyneema. Look at Ozone, Flysurfer and Gin for example of crossover.
The key difference to me is the level of consequence in the relative sports. My kite collapses, meh no biggie. Your glider collapses, well that's
more of an issue.:o
Funny thing, I've had two people tell me they enjoy kiting more than gliding. Long time paragliders no less.
If you want to be a paraglider pilot, put your hard earned cash into that. Maybe for some kiting is step in their evolution to being a glider pilot
but I don't think many start kiting to end paragliding. lucifer911 - 1-12-2014 at 09:29 AM
paragliding requires a steep investment.. but in the mean time I have been wanting a power kite to keep me occupied.
Basically I am after a thrill seeking kite where I can do the occasional jump and use a landboard too. I live 20 minute drive from the beach and that
is where I fly my Prism stunt kite. I have looked at Ozone Octane and Prism Tensor... the reason I wanted a larger kite because I came across as more
thrill seeking? I just want a nice kite to keep me entertained that is all. I keep bouncing back and forth between Ozone Octane and Prism Tensor...
are these the suggested kites for someone new to power kiting? should I go for a 3m even though I'm 95kg and skeptical to think it could pull me off
my feet...?abkayak - 1-12-2014 at 10:07 AM
buy a 3m..and go figure out how to fly it proper, this is the right size kite that will teach you to be a pilot (tethered)
after that its great for high winds in a bug or on a board...and then start spending on other stufflucifer911 - 1-12-2014 at 01:00 PM
Ozone Octane 3m, HQ Beamer V and Prism Tensor... I guess I will choose one of these. Should I fly with handles or bars? perhaps when I get a longboard
then a bar becomes important for stability reasons.flyguy0101 - 1-12-2014 at 01:15 PM
i ventured in to paragliding thinking that it would be an "addon" to kiting- reality is as many have said it is 2 extremely different sports- Kiting
is more involved/active and has a higher adrenaline factor. Paragliding was a very calm experience and enjoyable but if you are looking for a rush it
is much easier to find on a kite with the wind making you haul donkey- my flight time with a paraglider was limited (instructor closed his business/
lost his training field) so i only had 12-13 tows up to about 500ft but was able to catch some thermals on a couple of flights that kept me in the air
for longer than 5 minutes (glide ratio with no thermals is about 200 ft a minute on a beginner glider wing). and i would relate the thermal riding to
class 5 whitewater only you cant see the river or the rocks:D. Determine what you want to do but also if paragliding is the main objective get a kite
with handles - that will help on the big wing since you will already understand Brakes- good luck FrontRangeJeff - 1-12-2014 at 02:45 PM
I'm a living example of Feyd's experience of kiting for some being astronomically more enjoyable then paragliding.
I started first paragliding in 2007 - became a P3 pilot - had lots of 90+minute flights in huge thermals thousands of feet over launch as well as lots
of "sled rides" totaling many flight hours and 250+flights - all fine and good but I got pretty bored with it all and tired of bizarre anti social
behavior of many of the local lifers. For some it is the cats meow and I get that but just didn't develop to be the case for me.
Personally I never saw the allure of attempting acro maneuvers or "pushing the envelop" however so maybe I was bored because my self preservation
internals make me that way....maybe because I know 4 pilots 2 of whom were more experienced then me who died in accidents. Very sad business and even
with my own very cautious approach to that sport with a DHV 1/2 wing (very mellow) I almost hucked my reserve on more then one occasion.
After taking up kiting 2+years ago I haven't flown once since. They are completely divergent other then the fact that managing a large paraglider
helped with kite skills....otherwise night and day. Pursue whatever gives you that stoke but my two cents....don't base a decision off of what you
think is the most exciting or which is cheaper because you can kill yourself doing either or you can have manageable risk doing either...and there is
no direct correspondence between $$ invested and enjoyment.
one option I may suggest is to take a tandem pg flight with a GOOD INSTRUCTOR and take a half day snow kiting or kiteboading lesson and see if either
"take"WELDNGOD - 1-12-2014 at 04:50 PM
Yeah, I might be partial. :DBladerunner - 1-12-2014 at 06:01 PM
Kite jumping is something that you grow into. You don't want to start jumping until you can fly + redirect your kite without looking at it. The kites
you are looking at work good as beginner kites + engines and will pull you on a mountain board but will not be good for jumping. They are not high
lift kites. It is much better and safer to jump with a larger kite in lower winds than to jump with a smaller kite and the high winds required to do
so.
The tried and true method is to start out with about a 3m 4line kite and putting in the time required to set your memory reflexes. It is a big enough
size to serve up plenty of power in high winds ( the speed record was won on a 2.7m) and will always have a place in your set of kites. If you want to
save money buy QUALITY used kites. Probably the best deal for a good new 1st 4 line is the PKD Buster in 3.3m. You should be able to put together a
multi kite quiver and ATB for only 1 of the $2000 you have. That leaves you $1000 to take lessons and or go for a tandem paraglide and see if that is
what you are really after. lucifer911 - 1-12-2014 at 08:11 PM
thanks Bladerunner
I have spoke to Ozone and they have suggested the Ozone Octane 4m as I am interested in ATBing at a later date.
Also I have a ridiculous question. Can I landboard off a cliff if I use an expensive depower kite? I mean depower is what helps you float down safely
correct? riffclown - 1-12-2014 at 08:16 PM
It doesn't take a parachute to sky dive. One is required however if you'd like to do it twice.
You presented it as a ridiculous question but it does warrant a response.
Please take a deep breath and read some of the advice given.. Learn everything you can about a kite (3M or so) before jumping off a cliff.. There's a
few sides to the story, One is we don't want you to get hurt. The other side is if you do, then everyone will use you as the example of why we can't
fly in their location..
Quote:
I mean depower is what helps you float down safely correct?
Experience and lots of it is what helps you float down safely.. Even those with tons of experience can get surprised by a unexpected gust and find
themselves far higher than expected or prepared for...
Safety first.. Here's hoping you don't really want to see the inside of your femur
lucifer911 - 1-12-2014 at 08:40 PM
thanks riffclown..
I will have the Octane 4m within 2 weeks and will start from there..
I wish I lived on the Swiss Alps or in New Zealand.
I like watching this video too..
I fly airplanes for a living. I'm a P3 Paraglider pilot. And I kite surf. Given the option, I take my kites any day of the week.
I LOVE flying. But that said, it's just like others said... How much risk do you want. Like what front range Jeff said, if you want adrenaline in
flying, people start doing Acro. Not for me. Seems like a good way to be Quadriplegic.
But do what your heat tells you to do. Just think it though. Don't chose anything because of some sort of image, but what's truely in you heart. carltb - 2-12-2014 at 12:15 AM
nice video, but you are a very long way away from doing that. you need to learn to fly a kite before you strap anything to your feetlucifer911 - 2-12-2014 at 12:35 AM
I agree carlb.. I would also have to polish my skills in snowboarding without a kite too. I live in Australia so snowboarding with a kite is not a
realistic option unless I move to New Zealand. We have snow here too but it gets congested with tourists and the snow season is really short here (2
months) - New Zealand would be a far better option and the plane trips are not overly expensive. It is more realistic that I will end up kiteboarding
on water assuming paragliding doesn't take over my interest in power kiting. I have a background in surfing and have done a few dangerous risks in the
past (nearly drowned twice when surfing all alone in a remote area) but its the adrenalin which is what I seek. A buggy doesn't seem that exciting
unless it goes superfast... I will try to upload a videos with a gopro camera once I get good at flying bigE123 - 2-12-2014 at 01:58 AM
All I'd say now is take it easy learn how to fly before looking for the adrenalin buzz. The buzz comes once you have learnt the skills and put them
to use, I'm 90kg (ish) and started on a 5m Beamer and got well and truly spanked a couple of times because I hadn't done my homework and thought I
could take it out in most winds..... and that's why we give advice to hopefully prevent ppl making the same mistakes :D robinsonpr - 2-12-2014 at 03:15 AM
Until you have held a power kite and can really feel what they can do, you may *think* you want a big expensive kite. But you will get your ass
handed to you if you aren't careful.
I took some lessons on water about 10 years ago. Before that I flew a 3m 2 line trainer on a bar for a solid 4 or 5 hours. After the lessons on water
I felt I was an OK pilot, and I was able to get up on a board and ride.
Kiting on land is a different story. I had some experience so thought I would be OK with a bigger depower kite, and I got well and truly spanked. A
few years on now and I'm still just getting to grips with riding an ATB and have just bought a buggy. I'm progressing SLOWLY but safely, with
slightly bigger kites as I get more proficient. But I haven't even considered using my bigger depower kites on the wheels yet.
You may think buggying looks easy and is quite tame, but when whizzing along with your butt a few inches off the ground and you have a kite strapped
to you the adrenaline soon kicks in, especially when you're coming to the end of the field and you know that sending the kite too quickly to the
zenith could pluck you out of the buggy like a feather!
Same with the ATB...looks easy when you see dudes like carltb doing it, but man, it's tough (and can be painful) at the start.
The wind is unpredictable and deserves your utmost respect at all times. Only a few weeks ago I got another depower kite, a 15m Peter Lynn Synergy,
which is not exactly huge and people refer to it as a "gentle giant". I took it out for a test flight in fairly low winds, and got spanked again and
ended up with a broken thumb.
DEFINITELY don't even consider riding off a cliff with a depower kite :Dabkayak - 2-12-2014 at 07:33 AM
once you fig out what these kites will do im pretty sure you will be quite happy where you live..if you have beach this is a year round sport...i have
a thousand days skiing under my belt and havent gone since i got my first kitesadsack - 2-12-2014 at 04:56 PM
I perfect example what happens 90% of the time when people with no developed skills try to jump with the complete wrong kite.
Funny, as I was watching I was saying to myself " it's amazing these guys haven't hurt themselves". Then " IT " happened.
This is what will happen to you as well if you try to jump with that 4m Octane you have coming 911. It will be a very good kite for learning the
ropes, scudding down the beach and getting going on an ATB or buggy but NOT for learning to jump!
A 3m would have allowed you to fly in stronger winds. Be careful with the 4m as a starter. It is too big for real strong winds. Pack it up and live to
fly another day.
P.S. Go to www.coastalwindsports.com and check out the tutorials. It is packed with all the info you need to get going. lucifer911 - 2-12-2014 at 06:51 PM
I will be flying on sand too which is more forgiving than solid ground / grass. The reason I'm opting for a 4m is simply due it being able to catch
more wind and I'm also considerably heavier than most people flying kites. Light winds are more common than strong / extreme winds so it will give me
more opportunity to fly. I do not want to have to wait weeks at a time just to get an opportunity to fly due to unsuitable conditions. The Ozone rep
told me be careful when the wind goes above 20 knots.. majority of the time the wind range is 5-15 knots (6 miles - 16 miles). I have not ordered yet
but may reconsider a 3m... also everytime I buy a kite I do not want to move up by 1m increments. I would rather buy considerably bigger rather than
marginally bigger otherwise I will have to keep buying more kites to get the desired effect I am after.
The bigger you are ..the harder you fall
skimtwashington - 2-12-2014 at 08:53 PM
When they start to show accident film links it usually means folks on here may be getting a little concerned by your responses....
But this is a quick and better one to show if someone wants to caution you with a film :
Sand can be quite hard and even if it's the loose kind....so..?
It's not just a fall from any height that can hurt you. Being yanked and pulled down.... dragged sideway.....(as an example: running with kite's pull
instead of 'scudding' might do both of these)..... and more mishaps. In such cases no surface will protect you...unless it's water.. and even then...
Note: neither film shows use of a helmet by flyer.
ssayre - 2-12-2014 at 09:50 PM
Don't worry, you don't know it yet, but you'll be buying plenty of kites if you get hooked. By the way, for what it's worth, a 3 meter is always
easier to unload than a 4 meter, at least around here. soliver - 3-12-2014 at 06:55 AM
The typical progression is to start with a 3m, then to a 5m. That will suit a great many conditions (you can be comfortable going a little bigger due
to your stature). From there it will be a matter of whether you miss out of flying because winds are too HIGH or too LOW. If you end up sitting out
because you have too much wind, you will likely choose to pick up something smaller than 3m (1.5-2m). If you find yourself sitting out because your
have too little wind, you will likely choose to pick up something bigger (in the 7-8m range). On another note, if you decide to move into depower,
most people pick up something in the 8-10m range to start depower. (depower kites run larger for comparable wind speeds), and then progress in sizes
from there. Many people feel comfortable moving to depower kites after a good deal of using and abusing their first and second kites.
There are no rules, but this is how most people go about it.
First and foremost, swallow some pride and take a big slice of humble pie, because regardless of how much you think you know and regardless of your
level of experience, respecting the fact that these kites are NOT toys and can seriously injure or possibly kill you is tantamount.
Be careful, enjoy, and welcome to the addiction.Feyd - 3-12-2014 at 07:54 AM
That kite jumping vid that always creeps me out. :o
No Helmet=Nothing worth protecting. Who say's there's no natural selection these days?
Here's my 2 cents. Forget buying a trainer. We've all but abandoned trainers in our school because there are small depower options that do the same
job, are safer and don't generate any confusion when switching from a FB to Depow as the student progresses. A fixed bridle trainer isn't going to
handle as broad a wind range as a depower or be as friendly in the gusts and there are 4m and 5m Depower options that pull like a 3m fixed bridle out
there that are less likely to wreck you in a gust.
Ozone Access, HQ Apex, Peter Lynn Lynx and soon the Peak2 in smaller sizes will all provide you with some sense of lift and allow you to get a feel
for flying the kite before you move to a bigger size that has some lift.
You aren't going to be able to safely jump on smaller kites. You can't fight physics. Sure in the right winds even a small kite will get you enough
altitude to make you smile. But that smile will go fast when the thing drops you from 12 feet up.
911, You already know how to surf so to me the natural progression is to take a kitesurf lesson and start hucking your carcass on the water. Get your
jumping skills dialed there and then start playing with hucking on land.
Btw. I'm 210 lbs and one of the worst beatings I've taken from a kite was on a 3m Ozone Samurai fixed bridle trainer.
lucifer911 - 6-12-2014 at 02:17 AM
hi Feyd.. and everyone else.
I am placing my order next week for a power kite and just want to know..
is there much difference between a 3m Ozone and a 4m Ozone kite? I mean does 1 metre make a world of difference or is it only a subtle feeling?
The biggest size for Ozone Octane is 5m.. I am wondering if this results in much difference over a 4m? I know you guys want me to start small... but
is 1 metre smaller or bigger result in any noticable difference?robinsonpr - 6-12-2014 at 02:45 AM
In 15mph winds I can fly my 3m Twister fast through the power zone and get some nice scuds and a good work out.
But I tried my buddy's 4m Twister on the same day and it was too much, it just dragged me way too much.
But in 12mph the 3m would probably be a bit tame and the 4m would be perfect.
You WILL be getting many more kites, so start small and don't sweat it. It's not like a 3m kite will become redundant....get a good model that will
last (ozone like you have already decided) and it will serve you well in high winds as well as learning on in low winds! RedSky - 6-12-2014 at 03:57 AM
1 sq metre = 10.7sq ftbobalooie57 - 6-12-2014 at 08:48 AM
I don't remember if you said where you are located, but you should really try to get together with someone that has been at this for a while. They
will likely have different sized kites you could try under the same conditions, and that will tell you a lot. There will be enough difference between
a 3M and a 5M in the same wind, to make you want to fly or not(as caution dictates). A quality 3M will always be in your quiver, to use in high winds
or teach a newbie in 10-15. Good luck, have fun, and get a helmet!
