Power Kite Forum

Downturning?

rofer - 30-9-2014 at 03:55 PM

So, I've often seen it suggested to avoid turning up at the edges of the window to avoid losing speed and causing the kite to luff.

However, I have to confess I can't seem to figure out how to turn down. I get the idea, if the kite is flying to the right just pull on the right power line (and possibly the right brake too), but in practice it never seems to work for me. I can make figure eights turning up no problem (if the wind permits), but I manage to luff the kite as soon as I try and turn down.

I'm not quite sure what's happening, but when I try and turn down I often end up with slack in the lines causing the kite to luff. In the cases were it doesn't the kite never seems to want to turn any further than straight down. Thus far I think I've only managed to successfully turn a kite down and around once.

I'm wondering if anyone might have a clue as to what I'm doing wrong. I wonder if my light and inconsistent wind might have something to do with it, but that certainly can't be everything because I can manage to turn up in winds where I can't turn down. I have this problem with all three of my kites.

crazyherb - 30-9-2014 at 05:20 PM

Maybe get a faster turning kite?

Seriously though...before a down-turn (back looping the kite) I run the kite all the way to the edge of the window where the lines almost go slack BEFORE down looping...edge hard till it comes back up way back in the window and sheet out and ride off!!

rofer - 30-9-2014 at 05:31 PM

I'm mostly trying this flying static actually. Very rarely do I have to wind to even try getting on my board.

ssayre - 30-9-2014 at 05:46 PM

Try down turning higher. If your too low you might not have the room to bring it around.

WELDNGOD - 30-9-2014 at 05:59 PM

Use more brake input to turn it. When you get good at it ,the kite will seemingly pivot on its tip. With the big boy ,it's gonna take full brake and pull back to turn it.

RedSky - 30-9-2014 at 06:11 PM

Strange one this. Have you come to a complete stop at the edge of the window before you downturn? If so then try and downturn just before you come to a complete stop and before you reach the edge. Downturn while you still have some speed.




soliver - 1-10-2014 at 06:45 AM

My process includes all of the above, ... as I approach the edge of the window, I bring the kite upwards (to make some room to bring it over) then I pull the handle for the direction I'm turning just before I get to the edge of the window adding a little bit of brake tension to tighten the turn... so really its a matter for me of giving myself a little altitude first and not coming all the way to the edge, i.e. starting the maneuver before you "get there" ... and most important thing is to keep it moving.

all downturns in my most recent vid: https://vimeo.com/106352452 if that helps... good examples at 1:18 and 1:50, all with my big boy, the 8.6m

Bladerunner - 1-10-2014 at 11:18 AM

Work on doing kite loops turning down ( starting high ) . They are just a bit easier since you remain committed until the kite heads back up.

Once you are comfortable looping that way work on straightening out your handles / lines just as the kite turns in the opposite direction. A down turn is sort of a kite loop that you shorten and run across the window instead of back up. Send the kite low and straight through the power zone for a long power stroke. The reason a down loop is so valuable in motion.

rofer - 1-10-2014 at 11:22 AM

I think part of my problem might be that I don't actually get much power down low. Because of my poor locations and wind I usually find the most power higher up in the window rather than where the power zone should be. Most often I have to walk back a bit to get my kites in the air at all.

Bladerunner - 1-10-2014 at 11:25 AM

Speed equals power.

If you do it correctly and get on the front lines to speed up the kite the apparent wind should be all you need to run it through and back up the other side ?

Get the loops down 1st.

dangerdan - 1-10-2014 at 11:55 AM

You could be flying to far to the edge of the window, then its to late

indigo_wolf - 1-10-2014 at 12:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rofer  
I'm not quite sure what's happening, but when I try and turn down I often end up with slack in the lines causing the kite to luff. In the cases were it doesn't the kite never seems to want to turn any further than straight down. Thus far I think I've only managed to successfully turn a kite down and around once.


Quote: Originally posted by rofer  
I'm mostly trying this flying static actually. Very rarely do I have to wind to even try getting on my board.


In a word.... move.

If you are flying static and the kite starts to luff, move back... even to the point of running backwards to get tension back into the lines.

Note: Walking an unfamilar field before flying it gives you a chance to take note of all the surface irregularities, gopher holes, scrap rebar, etc. so moving backwards on the field is relative safe.

Too often, flying static gets equated with essentially anchoring your feet to the ground, and you lose out on a lot when you do that.

Even if you aren't on/in a board or buggy. You actually physically moving in relationship to the kite adds another dimension to things.

Moving/Running towards the kite detensions the lines and slows down the kite... always a good habit to get into if you find yourself heading for a nose plant you can't avoid.

Moving, running back away from the kite adds tension/power/speed to the kite and can prevent marginal luffs.

Moving sides to side, reorients the wind window and changes where the kite is in the wind window when you come to a stop.

Although it is geared towards dual and quad line stunt kites, there some stuff that is applicable to all kites in two articles called:
  1. Kitelife Issue 39: Milking the Breeze - Part 1
  2. Kitelife Issue 40: Milking the Breeze - Part 2


ATB,
Sam

B-Roc - 1-10-2014 at 02:41 PM

So, why are you trying to do this again? Sounds like you are switching from a technique that was mostly working to one that isn't working at all because someone told you to. Stick with what works, I say. If the winds are cleaner up high, don't bother with a down loop. You are aware that if you get it right, down loops often carry significantly more power through the turn, correct? So keep in mind if you get it right you may get yanked off your feet and then ask yourself again,,. why is this better?

rofer - 1-10-2014 at 04:10 PM

B-Roc: I'm trying to do this because I'm regularly flying in very little wind and my goal is usually just to keep the kite fast enough that it stays in the air. I'd be pretty amazed if I actually got yanked off my feet in most of the winds I've been in. I'd also just like to improve my kite skills so I can better handle whatever wind conditions I find.

Bladerunner: Part of my problem is I seem to lose speed as I turn it down which feels like the opposite of what I should be experiencing.

dangerdan: Flying too close to the edge very well may be my problem.

indigo_wolf: I often am moving about when I fly static. Partially to try and make up for the space I lose when I have to run back to launch my kites and partially to keep them from pulling me over, but for some reason I never step back when I'm turning down. I think it's because I always feel like I shouldn't have to then. Next time I'm out I will try that though.

I feel like this would be a lot easier if I could just practice more, but my winds rarely cooperate and on the few days they do I generally end up sticking with what I know I can do so the kite stays in the air. Hopefully as it gets colder the wind will improve and I'll have more chances to try some of this and figure out what's going wrong. Also recently got an action cam so I might try and get some footage of my flying so people can point out what I'm missing.

crazyherb - 1-10-2014 at 10:35 PM

Movement is key...this gives you the "edging" capability to keep tension on the lines..
Couple good downloops on my ride here:
http://vimeo.com/98305417

rofer - 2-10-2014 at 07:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by crazyherb  
Movement is key...this gives you the "edging" capability to keep tension on the lines..
Couple good downloops on my ride here:
http://vimeo.com/98305417

Problem is I don't have enough wind to get me moving most days I fly. If I wasn't so desperate to get my kites in the air I'd probably only get once in every 3-4 days I get them out now.

RedSky - 2-10-2014 at 02:34 PM

You mentioned earlier that you experience little or no wind down low. I've experienced this too within spitting distance of buildings and trees. Double length lines should cure this. I understand your space is limited but I'd give that a go.