Power Kite Forum

Starting with kiting

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 09:58 AM

Hi, I've been looking on the kites and I would like to buy one. So far I've been looking on something for kite jumping/ Kite landboarding ( I'll propably get the board later as I won't have enough money.) So far I found the Ozone Octane could be possibly a good choice? Also I'm not sure about the size. My weight is about 55kg (hope to gain more soon :) ). For landboard kiting, what kind of controler is better? Handles or Bar ( Powerbar? not sure about what's the difference.) How does the safety system work on handles? And the thing around your body ( sorry, I don't know how it's called in english :) )so you can rest your hands, what type is best for kite landboarding?

Thanks for all your advices and sorry for any misteakes, deficiencies and so on, ...

PHREERIDER - 4-6-2014 at 10:11 AM

greetings , you have started in the right place

conditions in your area? inland ? beach?

any experience with kites ? like stunt, rev, diamond 2 line ?

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 10:19 AM

The area is inland, mostly fields.

About the experience, I could say it's 0. I tried once 2 line kite with bar, but that was quite a long ago, but I think I know some of the basics. I've actually read trough a lot of tutorials and seen few videos, but still with hands-on it could be different experience.

BeamerBob - 4-6-2014 at 10:51 AM

The short version is that you'll need to get to the point you can fly a 3m 4 line kite with your eyes closed and be able to correct problems before they happen because you flew enough to recognize the signs before the problem actually occurs. To jump, you really need a 5m to 7m size to give you the lift and float you need to safely jump, but your skill level would not make a kite that size prudent for your safety.

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 10:58 AM

You want to say that I should start with smaller kite? I saw info that the Octane is not so bad for begginers, and still viable for advanced kiters and as I cannot afford to buy more than one kite, I thought this could be a good solution.

abkayak - 4-6-2014 at 11:13 AM

imo..3m 4 line kite....is all a person needs to go landboarding..it will be your gateway kite and serve as a high wind kite latter on...do not think of it as a small kite because it will kick your a$$ as hard as any other kite...it will also get you to level of experience you will need to think about jumping

BeamerBob - 4-6-2014 at 11:15 AM

You aren't the first to want this path, but it's like buying an F1 car to learn to drive. It will result in frustration at the least, or possibly cause you to give up the sport, or get you hurt. If you like the 3m kite and learn to fly it well, you will find a way to get your next kite. It would be ok to get a kite suitable for jumping if you've put your time in with the smaller kite first. You could do a search on here and see where all the others with less than 5 posts are mentioning jumping and first kite in the same post.

BeamerBob - 4-6-2014 at 11:25 AM

Here is some light reading to get you on board.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=5587#pid332...

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=6798#pid456...

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 11:25 AM

And what about the 2m option? I was asking about the size and as you all speak about the 3m, I assume that it's the right one for landboarding for my weight. The 3m Octane isn't a starter gear then? I get it that it might be hard to learn with something usable later.

Bladerunner - 4-6-2014 at 11:31 AM

Sorry to say so but no single kite does everything.

The tried and true method (especially if you are learning on your own) is to get a good quality 3m 4 line kite. Like BB says, " learn to fly it without looking at it and can predict what it will do before it happens" .

3m is a nice size. You can fly it in very little wind once you learn to keep it moving. It will serve up plenty of power as the wind picks up . It is all about getting time in under the kite and setting reflex reactions. 3m will allow you to go out in the widest range of wind so you will get more fly time in. Learning faster and more safe.

If money is tight look for a good quality used kite . Most folks hold on to their 3m for strong winds and teaching friends so reselling a quality kite is pretty easy. If you want to buy new PKD Buster Soulfly is about the cheapest quality kite I have seen.

Once you are master of the 3m you will have a much better idea of what will work best for you / your location when moving up. You can go through the motions and actually get lifted with a 3m before moving up but do so with CAUTION ! In order to get float you will need a larger canopy. The 3m will lift you but also drop you like a rock.

3m is big enough to get you going on a board but you will need real strong wind and that isn't the safest way to progress. Best to get a 3m and once you are master of it move up in size. Then try the board + learn to jump.

2m is a bit small. You will enjoy the extra power a 3m will offer.

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 11:39 AM

So I should get a 3m kite.

Then, is the Ozone Octane a good choice?

What is better for landboarding? Handles or bar?

PHREERIDER - 4-6-2014 at 12:04 PM

yes 3m or 4m, octane is a good start. bar is easy to start as well

abkayak - 4-6-2014 at 12:36 PM

bar is much easier to start...handles give you more control.. if you get a 4 line set up you can switch it to handles anytime
i like handles w/ my all my fb kites...others not so much

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 12:41 PM

So handles is harder to control, but when skilled enough it's more useful? And the bar is way more expensive, ...
What's the difference between normal and turbo bar?

abkayak - 4-6-2014 at 12:53 PM

slow down...handles give the pilot more control of the kite but are a little harder to grasp at first..reg bar or handles will come w/ the kite if it is ready to fly from the store... a turbo bar is different and will cost you more than the regular bar
i dont like turbos but they do have their place for some people..we all fly different stuff for many reasons

BeamerBob - 4-6-2014 at 01:04 PM

About the 2m size, it requires more wind to fly controllably than the 3m and the higher wind makes the 2m very zippy in the sky and you won't have the reflexes to control it as well as you need to at first. The 3m will turn more slowly in light winds which keeps you in control.

soliver - 4-6-2014 at 03:00 PM

Just to help you understand what I did not, what you really want is to learn control. When you start bigger you learn only how to REACT and hopefully survive. It's much less stressful to start 3-4m, learn how to control the kite then move up in size.

I have a 3m Octane and it's a great little kite I would hand anyone wanting to give kiting a try.

I can't speak to the Bar though, I use handles.

John Holgate - 4-6-2014 at 04:32 PM

Yes, 3m Octane will be a good kite to learn on (and keep for landboarding later on). Stick with handles and 4 lines for a start. For the moment, forget about jumping and forget about bars. (handles are cheap, compact and will teach you all about kite control, while if you start with a bar, you may miss out on some of the finer points of flying). Also, a Peter Lynn Hornet, HQ Beamer, Ozone Flow/Quattro, PKD Buster, Flexifoil Sting or Rage, Zebra Checka or Z1 are all similar kites to the Octane - the Octane would probably out perform quite a few of them but it won't make a lot of difference in the beginning - all are high quality kites that make quite good 'engines' for landboard or buggy.

Start in light winds and fly it heaps. Respect it too - smaller kites than 3m have caused folks serious injury. ie: DON'T put it up in 15 knots for your first flight!!!

You will be able to landboard with it at a later stage. And you will also be able to add a harness and bar should you wish - but by that time you'll have a pretty good handle on the kite and what you want to do.

Flufy - 4-6-2014 at 11:10 PM

Thanks John, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

Is it possible to add a harness with combination to handles?

For landboard kiters, what's more common? Handles or bar?

John Holgate - 4-6-2014 at 11:59 PM


Quote:

Is it possible to add a harness with combination to handles? For landboard kiters, what's more common? Handles or bar?


Yes to the first - often handles come with a 'strop' attached between them - you can attach this to a harness in various ways (most use a pulley and quick release - a bit of digging here should uncover a few threads on various setups)

The landboarders in my local area seem to have started with handles and eventually ended up with depower kites & harness. Depower kites pretty much all have bars which allow you to alter the angle of the kite relative to the wind by pulling the bar in/out. This allows you to manage your power a bit easier which is better in gusty conditions. Depower's tend to be bigger and more expensive - something your wallet can look forward to......:D

There aren't really any hard and fast rules about which kites do what. Most of us start with fixed bridles/handles. Some go to depowers - open/closed/foil or arc. Some go to high performance fixed bridles for speed. I've seen single skin C-Quads used brilliantly in the buggy and on the water and I tend to fly mainly single skin Nasa Star 2's these days. You can skin the same cat lots of different ways.

Learning to read the wind is necessary too. Gusty, shifting wind can be unflyable and cause you a lot of grief. Make sure your upwind area is completely clear of buildings or trees that can cause the wind to do all sorts of really weird stuff. The best wind is usually a sea breeze coming off the ocean - it can be a smooth as glass and completely predicable and a joy to fly in. Gusty inland wind can belt you with 25 knots one minute and die down to a couple of knots the next. Watch any trees around - if they're bent over in the wind but stay that way constantly - great! If they wave madly back and forth.....not so good!

Flufy - 5-6-2014 at 12:23 AM

So if I'll buy the 3m Octane with handles, it wouldn't be a misteake, that's great.

Do you have any advices about choosing right location?

And the safety system, how does it work on handles kites? I saw few videos how people used it on the bar kites, but I have no clue about the handles.

hiaguy - 5-6-2014 at 04:24 AM

With all due respect, you ill probably save yourself time, money, and possible injury, by starting with a 3m fixed bridle kite. The Octane on handles will fill this role nicely to begin with and to use in higher winds as your skills develop.

As you progress, moving to a bar, and/or harness will be easier for you. Learning on handles is like learning to drive standard - moving to automatic later is easier than learning to shift after years of driving an auto transmission. There is no other sport like this one, but treating it with respect is the quickest route to being good at it.

If you share your location, there are many others on this board that will be able to comment on your winds and locations, and may be better able to make suggestions for you. It may even be possible to meet up with one of us to try a kite before you commit your dollars to it.

Just my .02

Safety flying on handles:

soliver - 5-6-2014 at 04:54 AM

When you fly FB (fixed bridle kites ie. octane) on handles the safety system is called "kite killers" which are a tether of some sort that go from the brake line on each handle to a Velcro strap around each wrist. When you feel like you're getting into trouble or a sudden gust hits the kite, you just let go of the handles. Since the tether attaches the brakes to your wrists, the brakes are activated on the kite so it stalls out and sinks to the ground (in a wad usually). Afterward it's typically just a matter of staking the kite, straitening a few lines and un-wadding the kite and you're back in business.

You will develop a muscle memory and instinct to just let go of the handles when things go south, because it can happen quickly. That instinct will save you.

Some people get really phobic about being "attached" to the kite, but if you understand how it all operates, that phobia is kinda silly. The other option is not to use the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s and when you get into trouble you just let go and have to chase down your kite. I find this not as effective, because you fear "losing" your kite so you are less willing to let go, which can be dangerous.

ssayre - 5-6-2014 at 05:39 AM

Watch John Holgate's youtube videos of how to launch a power kite. His videos are very helpful when starting out.

This is a good one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FFVFffvXrQ

Flufy - 5-6-2014 at 07:39 AM

My location is east of Czech republic, that's completely inland. https://www.google.com/maps/@49.6618533,18.6948688,13z

I admit that I have no idea about local wind conditions.
If anyone would let me give it a try before I'll buy my own kite, that would be great.

Bladerunner - 5-6-2014 at 08:13 AM

We don't have a lot of Czech members here unfortunately.

Think of wind as flowing like water in a stream . The wind will be disturbed for 7 to 10 times the distance downwind from an obstacle. At the same time you want to have double your line length downwind , about 60 meters. This is so you can get dragged downwind or completely disconnect from your kite and let it go without damage to it or yourself or kite.

If you don't get a set of kite killers with the kite the next best thing to do is to let go of 1 handle and hold the other. This method isn't ideal but works.

The next thing to consider is the surface. Groomed grass parks work well with a mountain board. If grass is long or the ground is rough a board doesn't work well. This is where a buggy is best.

Soliver is right on with his advice. You want / need to learn kite control at 1st. 3m is a very good size for this since it delivers good power but not too much until the wind is very strong. + allows you to fly in a wide range of winds. Both speed up your learning curve greatly.

Flufy - 5-6-2014 at 08:30 AM

Yeah, I even haven't expected any Czech here.

About the location, I'm starting to think that this might be a problem, as there are mostly neglected fields or meadows as far as I know.

Bladerunner - 5-6-2014 at 01:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Flufy  
Yeah, I even haven't expected any Czech here.

About the location, I'm starting to think that this might be a problem, as there are mostly neglected fields or meadows as far as I know.


Yes , it is a real struggle to ride mountain board on neglected or farm fields . Best bet is to look at buying or building a buggy .

Flufy - 5-6-2014 at 02:11 PM

At least for now, buggy is not the option, not mentioning the fact that it is at least three times more expensive as landboard.

John Holgate - 5-6-2014 at 03:41 PM

Check out www.born-kite.de They make the Nasa Star 2's that I fly a lot and are based in Jena, Germany. Check out 'streetkiting' too - using the Nasa's on very short or no lines straight off the bar with longboards/mountain boards or skates in areas that you couldn't kite with long lines. Steffen has quite a few videos of streetkiting (and others) on his site and may be able to put you in contact with local (relatively!) flyers.

3shot - 5-6-2014 at 06:07 PM

Several good points made in this thread.

Just grab you a 3m kite with handles and a helmet and go to it. Learn what is good wind and what is bad before even thinking about a harness. IMHO

Bladerunner - 6-6-2014 at 08:22 AM

John brings up a very good point.

I started out using rollerblades and a 3m kite in a huge parking lot. If you have a paved area or some lonely roads that you can use going with a standard skateboard is a ton of fun. You can fly a standard foil on short lines as well as the single skins.

ssayre - 6-6-2014 at 08:32 AM

Where there's a will, there's always a way. Get the kite and start learning to fly. That's half the fun.

Flufy - 6-6-2014 at 09:02 AM

Yeah, I'm getting the Octane next week. I wonder if they would let me ride landboard on golf field, ... Just kidding, I'll have a trip around the fields and see if I'll find some usable place, if not, then I'll just have to survive without the landboard.