I have one season of snow kitting under my belt and I want to keep going this summer what, should I buy?
I currently have HQ Apex 4's 5.5m, 11m and soon a 8m. I have a Mystic seat harness but I am guessing I will need/want a waist harness I would be
kiting on lake Superior and local inland lake in Duluth Minnesota.
Summer winds are usually between 10 and 15 mph gusts to 20 mph smooth to choppy water I am 5' 4'' 180 lbsssayre - 27-4-2014 at 06:59 PM
You do know you can't use the apex on the water. Just asking because it sounded like you were wnting to use the apexChrisz - 27-4-2014 at 07:07 PM
Yes, just explaining my current kite experience.
There are way more water kites than snow kites to chose from I don't know where to start.
I would like to keep my budget to 1,500 or less for a new package. I would prefer to buy used and save a chunk of change if I can.
ssayre - 27-4-2014 at 07:30 PM
Okay, I figured you knew. I'm not a water guy so one them will have to speak up. Good luck.Bladerunner - 27-4-2014 at 08:21 PM
I would spend the money you plan to spend on a waist harness on lessons.
You need to learn some important things before heading out on water. Self rescue and how to deal with other marine traffic etc.. Your instructor will
be the best one to suggest what will work for you. At the very least get a good instructional video and burn it in your memory. Chrisz - 28-4-2014 at 04:34 AM
I checked into lessons, they are about $300 for 4 hours of instruction 2 on land and 2 hours on water. If winter ever ends up here I might do that.
On a warm year lake Superior gets up to 50 degrees I dont even want to think what the water temperatures are going to be this year. Burr......PHREERIDER - 28-4-2014 at 06:09 AM
sounds like a dry suit! Bladerunner - 28-4-2014 at 08:07 AM
Typical lesson sets are 3 lessons . It is best to use a shop that will provide you with an IKO or PASA card.
Odds are very good that you won't need 2 hours on land . It sounds like a lot of money but learning to self rescue and so much more happens very fast
and the things you really need to know to be self dependant on the water. Things that are hard to know you need to know. The instruction gets you up
and going on your board so much sooner. You also get to thrash the school gear . Learning can be very hard on your gear. It sounds like a lot but is
money well spent ! Chrisz - 28-4-2014 at 08:08 AM
So I believe there are 3 options I could go with, what is the best for water? What are the pros and cons?
1 closed cell
2 twin skin
3 LEIjy1zoom - 29-4-2014 at 07:42 AM
Does this really work with closed foils? Launching right off the water? http://youtu.be/D2PCJsKf3Jo
In my little experience I have had no success water relaunching a Peter Lynn Arc which flopped and folded over itself into a bowtie.
Experienced kiters on modern lei bows tell me its a non event water re launching.
If theres crowded beach, trees or no beach, water launch would be a factor.Chrisz - 29-4-2014 at 08:35 AM
Good point, I am most likely going to half to boat launch, there are very few beaches you can get space to launch a kite. Most of the lakes around
here the trees go right up to the shore line and the shore line is usually bolders I stead of nice sand. The lakes are also mostly deep so you would
not be able to touch the ground toget going again after a wipe out.
This could be tougher than I thought, maybe that is why there are not a lot of kites around here. Most of what you see are sail boards, I have done
that before I found that to be difficult and sold the second hand equipment I putchaced. later I found out the equipment I purchaced was not the
right fit for me if I was set up better I would of been more successful. I don't want to make that mistake again.Feyd - 27-6-2014 at 05:11 PM
Any foil with cells is technically a twin skin. Top skin (extrados) and bottom skin (Intrados).
Closed cell options without getting too exotic, Arcs (preferably Venom series and up) HQ Matrixx and Neo. Flysurfers, Ozone. Bang for the buck new,
Matrixx may be your best option. A lot of performance for the money. Arcs, well they do just about anything and do it well. Except light wind.
Flysurfer Speeds and Ozone Chrono, great kites for what they are supposed to do but better take out a loan.
This is the best deal I could find on a new kite package.rudeboysaude - 14-3-2015 at 04:47 AM
Chrisz, do you hang out with Randy and crew at UMD? I used to kite with Randy on Superior. You'll need at least a wetsuit for sure. I liked Wisconsin
point better than MN point. Usually less people around and less developed. I flew Peter Lynn ARCS there. Plenty of beach for a launch. Drift
launching ARCS on inland lakes is doable, but easier with an LEI. Water kiters in northern MN are much fewer in numbers than snowkiters. doneski - 14-3-2015 at 06:49 AM
Go to the kite spots you plan to sail atand see what others have. Ask about the winds and what size they recommend you start with. Its nice to have
a kite that others are familier with since they can help you with setting up, launching and landing. I fly ARCs and I like them but they are rare
and if there's no one at your launch site that understands them you're on your own.
Check out http://www.losethestraps.com for build your own boards Check out kiteforum.com for water based kitingelnica - 14-3-2015 at 09:14 AM
Have you flown the Apex's yet? What have you flown them with (landboard, snowboard)? do you understand and know the safety system like the palm of
your hand? If you can fly the apex well riding something on land, I would say you don't need land classes, just jump straight into LEI safety and
water starts.
I would highly suggest learning with an LEI, especially if your beaches don't have a ton of room. Peter Lynn arcs and Flysurfers like lots of room to
launch and land since they are usually downwind from you instead of at the edge of the window. Boat launching to learn just sounds horrible,
everything has to go perfect for it to work, and if you are learning you will get inverts, tangles, and drop your board quite a bit. Your boater
friend will get annoyed with helping you and seeing you suffer anyways and he'll be suffering since it will be quite choppy and windy/miserable for
non-kiters. I had a kite lesson where we had to boat launch in hatteras (with 2-3ft deep water) and it still sucked, we spent +20mins just untangling
the kite to launch, only possible because of it being shallow. Any tangle you discover on a boat most likely means going back to shore to fix.
Find a shallow bay (2-3ft deep area) to learn in, even if you have to drive a lot, you will progress much faster that way. You fell? just get up and
walk to your board. You tangled the kite? walk to shore and sort it out and try again.
An LEI is easier to self rescue with than a foil. And when you get better, you can kite in places where trees or other obstacles are too close to
shore to launch.
This is the launch I always use when you can't launch from shore. You can't do this with waves, only chop/flat water, and I don;t advise you to try it
by yourself until you are an intermediate kiter and/or someone walks you through it. Many details to learn and remember that aren't as obvious as a
beginner:
Chrisz - 14-3-2015 at 05:37 PM
I've been out on my Apex and Frenzy kite every weekend this winter, kite handling is not a problem. My go to kite is typically the 11m Frenzy for our
10 to 15 mph winter winds. 15 to 20 mph winds I go to the 8m Apex anything over 20 mph winds I fly the 5.5 m Apex. We usually have a gust factor of
10 to 12 mph or so in the winter.
I have seen your video several times the water launch looks doable, but looking back on how many times I walk my lines with my foil out on the frozen
lake I can for see tangles.
I am leaning towards the HQ Ingition, just not sure what size kite and board to get, I will most likely be on an inland lake in light wind. I flew
an Ignition this winter and like the quick turning responce, that kite was a 9 meter. I think I would need something a little bigger than that in
light wind on water I am about 185 lbs.
I chickened out I on buying a water kite last summer, it is tough to spend that much money on a kite that I can only use when I get the right wind
direction due to limited launch sites.
I live on a resivor lake and this year it looks like it is going to be about 8 feet low giving me lots off launch site options, but no shallow water
options. I am most likely will need a chase boat to follow me and bring me back up wind while I learn the water.crazyherb - 14-3-2015 at 11:02 PM
LEI only way to go until you get "good"...
You'll find you need much more wind on the water vs land/snow.
15-20mph is my "happy place" on my 15M Switch Element and Liquid Force Proof 161..
20-25mph I kick down to my 11M Element (same board)...
Here's the promo video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKbirTC3WA
Bang for the buck...can't beat em...
Relaunch in choppy water: https://youtu.be/WxqZ8HvYexo
I'm 6'3" and 212lbs....
I learned on land with old school C-kites but quickly realized how much better the modern LEIs are for relaunch and general handling in water.
Oh ya...I use seat harness on land, Waist for water...the higher tow point helps with body dragging when you wipe out...any you will...a lot!
We're in cooler water here...I use a Hyperflex AMP 5/4/3 hooded wetsuit with 3mm boots and gloves (on occasion)...haven't been too cold yet..
Good luck!! BigMikesKites - 15-3-2015 at 03:47 PM
Crazyherb is right. I went out thinking a 15m Charger would do me something in 10-12 mph winds and anyone riding that day was on anything over 17m.
LEI is the better start point I agree as well. Chrisz - 15-3-2015 at 06:32 PM
So I need a 17 m to ride 10 to 15 mph winds?ssayre - 15-3-2015 at 07:25 PM
Arcs, foils like your frenzy, and lei kites will have different projected areas per sq meter. which means the power output of 2 kites of the same
square meters can be very different. For example, I get roughly the same low end with my 6 meter peak as I did with my 13 meter venom. Both depower
kites with similar low end but 7meters difference in the flat area. Just something to keep in mind. I have never had an lei so I can't compare them.Chrisz - 16-3-2015 at 03:51 AM
I was told to get the same pulling power of my 11m Frenzy foil I would need to get a 14 m LEI, does that sound about right?robinsonpr - 16-3-2015 at 04:25 AM
Sorry for the thread hijack...
ssayre that's interesting to hear your comparison of your 13m Venom having a similar low end to your 6m Peak.
I was out with both of those kites a couple of weeks ago before I popped my knee. About 12mph, gusting higher but also lulls to virtually zero. I
was on the buggy with the Venom, nicely powered for my ability, but then I lost the kite during a turn and a lull in the wind. So instead I put the
6m Peak up and was surprised to find that I had the same, if not a bit MORE power. Especially as I felt more comfortable throwing it around (I have
more air time with the Peak and am still scared of the arcs because of their physical size!)
I assumed those two kites would be close as I know the arcs have a lower projected area and the people at flysurfer say the 6m Peak is like a 8 or 9m
traditional foil, but still surprising to experience them back to back and also hear your comparison! ssayre - 16-3-2015 at 06:05 AM
Yep, I find the peak much better suited for inland flying because it will ride out the lulls. The arcs NEED some wind to stay working properly.
Also, the peak handles the gusts a bit better. A hard gust on an arc will remind you there still lies huge power and speed in that kite. :D I don't
get that feeling as much with the peak. I think it's because it lacks the flying speed that an arc hasgrigorib - 16-3-2015 at 02:03 PM
For Great Lakes area and 180 lbs your kite line should be 8m/11m/16m. 9m would be too big for strong winds, 12m will be too big for 20 knots. IF you
start with one kite get an 11m for regular winds and add 10m extension lines in lighter wind condition.
Don't get a board longer 135cm unless you're getting a lightwind "door".
Having fewer kites assumes you should have more than one board and it's more cost effective too.Chrisz - 16-3-2015 at 04:04 PM
Any suggestions for a beginner water kite brand, I was goin for the HQ because that is the only thing I have flown.
There are so many brands out there...crazyherb - 16-3-2015 at 04:30 PM
Switch Element (purpose built for land/snow/water)..Hence, the name....Easiest relaunch of any kite I've flown, direct bar pressure/feel, sheets out
to NO pressure, drifts well, and handles the BONKS well...and best bang for the buck...IMHO. Shipping took 10 days from order to door-step factory
direct. http://www.switchkites.com
But, I don't want to start a brand war...any newer 3-5 strut LEI...you'll have a blast with...Shoot for 11-13M to start...and a BIG water
board...150cm or biggerChrisz - 16-3-2015 at 06:55 PM
Ok I was wondering what size board I was looking at the packages at http://www.mackiteboarding.com most of the packages they sell are smaller kites and boards.
I kind of like the black orange kite...UnknownAX - 17-3-2015 at 03:15 AM
Any newer LEI will work fine, but look for a allround/freeride model. I recommend getting a last years "big brand" kite if they are still available/on
sale. They hold their resale value MUCH better and I think they're just a bit more refined and proven. That is not to say that for example switchkites
wouldn't make good kites, but I personally decided not to buy them as they really weren't any cheaper in the end.
You might also want to take a look at the bars, many of them will work nicely even with other brand kites so you don't need to get a new bar if you
decide to expand your quiver later. For example Cabrinha uses a special bar system which shouldn't be used with other kites.
I wouldn't recommend getting a overly big twintip unless you want to use it as a purely lightwind board as it won't make learning any easier, really.
With minimal experience on water I seem to get a windrange of 12-XX knots with my 12m Catalyst and 140x42 board and the same weight as you. I can only
comment on the low-end, but I expect it to top out at 22ish.grigorib - 17-3-2015 at 10:10 AM
Long term your regular wind (12-22 knots) setup will be 10m allaround kite and 134cm twintip board.
Unlikely you'd stay with one kite and/or one board only and below are most cost effective options:
a) add 10m extension to kite lines - it will "add" about 1m of kite size per every 3m of lines (per Peter Lynn and I personally can concur)
b) buy a large "door" board (not a large twintip - those are just too bulky for jumps/backrolls/etc) - Spleene/Slingshot/Litewave boards about
155x47cm. Such a board will last forever and will increase your low end dramatically.
More expensive options
c) when you go to SPI or OBX you're going to need a 3m smaller kite than 10/11m and a smaller board will not help much here.
d) you'll need a 15-16m litewind kite. Make sure get a lightwind kite (e.g. Turbine), not a large performance kite for heavy dudes (RPM)AD72 - 17-3-2015 at 11:38 AM
Take lessons, get the Progressions beginner video, and make friends with the locals you will be kiting with. You will learn a lot from them including
what equipment is right for the area.
Apex is NOT a water kite since it has open cells (when I had one it did). LEI will definitely shorten your learning curve. Trust me I started with a
FS Pulse and spent lots of time untangling a soggy mess. Great kite but when you are starting the kite will be in the water plenty of time. North
Rebel is a great, easy to relaunch, safe learning kite. The local schools use them and I have flown my 2011 10M for years.
Get a wide twintip to start. It will help you plane earlier and then you can use it as your light wind board. Also pick one that has visible
graphics. You will spend a lot of time body dragging back to your board. Don't get a board leash.
