Power Kite Forum - First flight anxiety UPDATE!!

First flight anxiety UPDATE!!

3shot - 25-4-2014 at 05:13 PM

I'm sure some will get a laugh but here goes.
As you know I just acquired my first depower. 2011 Ozone Access 10m. Really wanting to try it tomorrow maybe. I have 0 depower experience. FB only as you know. This would be my maiden depow voyage. So, as you can see, I have a high level of anxiety. Everyone has been here before and knows what I mean. I've researched and read till my eyes are crossed. You tubed it up a ton as well. Now its time to sink or swim.

This would be static only until I get familiar with the whole depower system. I know it's not designed as a static flyer, but feel that is what I need for the first few flights. I also know not to expect much performance from static, and that a depower in motion while static is totally different from a depower in motion in a buggy. I guess what I'm asking here is for any last minute tips or suggestions for a depower virgin? :lol:

What can I expect? (6'2" 210 lbs)

Winds are forecasted @ 10 gusting 15mph. Any recommended settings for first attempt? Is full depower on the cam cleat suggested? I've read a lot about not having enough power can starve or choke out the kite on launch. Yet, I don't want to be snatched out of my shoes either with too much power on the cleat. Also while being static, I'd like to know what I can ask of the kite, and what I can't. No intentions of jumping either. The sole purpose of this kite is lazy park and rides, and maybe some snow sports. I know ultimately it will come down to diving right in, but just want some last minute suggestions if I can get out tomorrow. EDIT: Geese! Now I realize this prolly should have went in the tips and tricks forum. Apologies..

Thanks :thumbup:

BeamerBob - 25-4-2014 at 05:29 PM

pull in your trim strap 80% or so to start and keep letting it out incrementally till you balance turning with not stalling it. Make the fine tuning and enhance your turns by pulling in on the bar. You will feel how far is right. If you can pull the bar all the way in and still have the kite fly right, then let the trim strap out some more. If the kite won't go to zenith or wants to back down to the ground even with the bar out, trim it in some more. Once you get the trim close to right, you won't have to mess with it unless conditions change.

John Holgate - 25-4-2014 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

I've read a lot about not having enough power can starve or choke out the kite on launch.

I would have said the opposite. If you have too much power - ie: Cam cleat let full OUT, then the kite will struggle to get off the ground. And if it does, it will have a fair amount of pull.

I would start with the cam cleat pulled half to 3/4 in - that will give you less power but more speed and easier launch. You can always grab the power lines and give them a pull to get the kite to launch if the wind is a little on the light side.

Bar out for speed and getting the kite moving, bar in for power = but only when the kite has got some speed. You may need to pull the bar in when turning the kite but then let the bar back out as it picks up speed across the window. Turning is controlled by the brake lines, so the more the cam cleat is pulled in and the more the bar is out, the less control you'll have. Hence, pulling the bar in just for the turn. In really light winds, you can actually grab the brake line in front of the bar and pull to get the kite to turn.

I wouldn't put a 10m up in 15 knots - particularly if it was a first fly. 10 knots should be ok. You may have to be reasonably aggressive with it to get it to do what it's told (might be a bit sluggish compared to what you're used to).

Once you've got a little bit of a feel for it, practice the safety release - cos when you need it, You're going to NEED it!!!

3shot - 25-4-2014 at 05:45 PM

Thank you Bob.
John. Yes, my depower verbage is in need of much address as you can see. That's what I meant to say. Thanks for the clarification. Makes good sense. 15 knots would be like 18mph. Agreed. No Go if that's what it is tomorrow. If I had to guess, it would be more in the 7-12 mph range tomorrow. Thanks as well John!

BeamerBob - 25-4-2014 at 06:01 PM

I remember when just learning about depower and listening to others about a kite's wind range, I launched a 9.5m Montana IV in smooth onshore winds blowing 20-22. It was very powerful but I was able to control it easily and flew it all over the edge of the window and even did some floaty jumps by pulling in the bar while moving the kite through zenith. Add in some variability to the wind or take away the beach sand and it would have been too much.

3shot - 25-4-2014 at 06:06 PM

Like anything else, experience is golden. I have none. LMAO
Have to start somewhere

Bladerunner - 25-4-2014 at 06:28 PM

Flying happens from your harness and chicken loop like the top of your handles . Pulling in / turning the bar is like adding brake input to turn or stall like the back of your handles.

As Bob suggested just like with your FB kites just work the edge of the window if you feel uncomfortable at 1st. Just like with handles avoid jerky motions and expect a certain delay between command and response from the kite.

It is a big step but not that big a step. I expect you will get on top of it quicker than you think. Take the buggy along just in case !

3shot - 25-4-2014 at 06:31 PM

Thanks blade. Makes more sense when comparing the characteristics to a FB :thumbup:

riffclown - 25-4-2014 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

I guess what I'm asking here is for any last minute tips or suggestions for a depower virgin? :lol:

What can I expect? (6'2" 210 lbs)

Lot's of GoPro footage... :D

3shot - 25-4-2014 at 06:55 PM

lol

RedSky - 25-4-2014 at 07:31 PM

Don't be afraid to completely let go of the bar if you suddenly become overpowered. It's quicker than searching for the quick release. You can pop the safety straight afterwards if you still feel its necessary, but letting the bar go and running toward the kite 'hands-free' is usually enough in the heavier gusts to recover. The kite is stable enough to fly itself for a few moments while you regain your composure.

Sitting on the grass for your first few launches should help with confidence.
Check your ground stake is firmly secured.

We need to see your first attempts captured on video for our amusement. :D
You will be fine.

3shot - 26-4-2014 at 05:39 AM

Thanks redsky. Like anything else, I've probably "overthinked" it to death. Hope the winds get right later..

riffclown - 26-4-2014 at 05:45 AM

Where are we going?
.. I'll bring GoPros :D

Feyd - 26-4-2014 at 05:55 AM

You're going to do what dang near every FB guy shifting to depow does. You're going to pull the bar in right to the chicken loop and stall, stall, stall.

If the kite is trimmed at the cleat it will be less of an issue but if the kite seems sluggish, under powered and you can see the ribs of the kite, push the bar out. There's a bit of a balancing act in flying depow. If you don't have enough airflow and you sheet in you will stall the kite.

Practice using the safeties. You should be able to actuate them without looking or hardly thinking about it. Their use should be reflex.

3shot - 26-4-2014 at 06:00 AM

really appreciate all these tips guys. Thank you very much.

Riff, don't know. I think winds are going to be wsw today. I've got a few things to take care of this morning, but am "hoping" to finish up around 12 or 1 pm.
Anywhere on your side of the river for wsw?

riffclown - 26-4-2014 at 06:06 AM

WSW works very well at the track near my work but no buggy riding there. It's the best static location I know of though.
Might be a few puddles after last night but drainage is pretty good there.

3shot - 26-4-2014 at 06:13 AM

No intensions of buggy for the first go. Let me get going. I'll have to check the times later. If its too late, I'll have to fall back to my school. I fear there may be that huge puddle in the track though

riffclown - 26-4-2014 at 06:17 AM

shoot me a text and we'll try to fly together. I have a bit of running around to do myself..

3shot - 26-4-2014 at 06:19 AM

sounds good

WELDNGOD - 26-4-2014 at 06:28 AM

Stay away from VA Beach !

3shot - 26-4-2014 at 06:35 AM

Oh yeah WG. Pretty sure that's about done til the fall. Tourons

WELDNGOD - 26-4-2014 at 06:40 AM

maybe not.... but it is college week. if you remember last year..... :mad:

AnnieO - 26-4-2014 at 08:33 AM

My first experience flying static with my 9.5 was having to learn to trust where to keep the bar so the kite stayed powered and not stalling. On the second outing I had no problem with that but interestingly on several occasions I pulled the chicken loop out of the hook. In other words, I fell back on old FB tendencies to muscle the kite instead of letting the harness and chicken loop provide the strong base needed to fly the kite and have max depower. I know it sounds silly but trust me, in the beginning you will most likely catch yourself trying to rely on your upper body instead of using your lower body and harness as an anchor. I hope that makes some sense to you. In any case good luck and have fun!

PHREERIDER - 26-4-2014 at 09:21 AM

"stay seated" as kite loads up thru window , head back , flex thru hip and knee. same power as FB but kinda has a throttle with balance thru legs hips and azzz

Demoknight - 26-4-2014 at 09:55 AM

Don't overthink it 3shot. My first time flying a depower was only last year when a local surf shop guy let me demo his 12 meter Royal. The wind was blowing 5-8 on shore and it wasn't quite enough power to get rolling, but enough to work the kite and keep it in the air. My first time launching it, I had no idea about the trim strap at all and the guy had it trimmed in pretty far. I launched, flew to zenith, and tried to turn while leaving the bar out and I watched in horror as I very slowly turned over and crashed into the ground. He laughed and told me not to be afraid to jerk it around and pull the bar in for turns. Big kites need big movements sometimes. Your first flight might be a little awkward, but your muscle memory only barely has to be retrained. You will take to it like a fish in water!

Chrisz - 26-4-2014 at 02:09 PM

I love my apex 4 11m, I find a big slow kite easier to to park and ride in low winds. You will definitely will need to use very aggressive movements with the bar to get that kite to turn and loop in 10 mph winds.

First flight anxiety (pics)

riffclown - 26-4-2014 at 03:04 PM

A few pics from today.

3shot - 26-4-2014 at 08:50 PM

Wow what a day. Now that I have time to reflect!. I met up with riffclown earlier to get some kites up in the air. Once we arrived to his field, we noticed the winds were quite gusty. Not high, just gusty. Anywhere form 4-8 gusting 12mph+. Going against my gut instincts, I decided to unpack the Access. Never go against your gut instincts. I digress..

Today was a huge day for me. First flight of the 10m, and first harness hook-up. The harness added to the already intoxicating depower anxiety I was suffering from :barf:. After we got Bertha all unpacked and staked down, it was time to hook up. About the time I knelt down to hook the chicken loop in, the stake up rooted releasing the brakes and the freakin kite took off :o :o :o. I instinctively grabbed the bar and for an instance, I was flying one handed, unhooked, off the ground :o :o :o. I pulled the top hat and killed the kite. Here I have just learned how to deploy the safety without even realizing I pulled it. It happened that damn fast!!! We quickly gathered her back up and staked her back down. BETTER this time. We had a lot of rain last and the ground was a little spongy. Plus, there was some sort of rubble about 6" under the dirt that didn't hold the stake very well. Not believing what just happened, I prepped for takeoff again. this time I got hooked in and had a hand on the brake. I easily let off and WHOOSH I was getting snatched across the grass a light speed. I quickly grabbed the brake and sank her to the ground before I collided with some joggers. Even more people have now showed up for various other exercising. I decided to pack it up before things got out of hand or I injured myself. It wasn't strong wind, just too much variance in the gusts. Again, I should have just passed like I would have any other time. I was so obsessed and nervous with the harness and getting the kite up, I broke my own rules. Trust your gut instincts - live to fly another day, etc. Foolish rookie mistake.

Me and riff just flew some small FBs the rest of the afternoon. Riff, sorry I was such a downer after the failed attempts. I just wanted to fly that kite soooo damn bad! It was a total buzzkill in a way. I tried too dang hard I recon. It was really fun flying your Symphony 2.2.4 again though. It was however, great coming off the field uninjured and no kite damage like you said.

I had about an hours drive home to reflect on a few things and decided to swing by my local field and give her one last go now that my nerves had settled a bit. I called my wife to meet me just incase there was trauma to the body :lol:

. I got everything all set up while she was in route. By this time the winds had settled out to a steady 7mph it felt like. With the Gopro rollin', I pulled the cleat in about 75% and eased off of the breaks. Bertha slowly climbed to zenith. I've done it! I've just successfully launched my first depower!! I tipped the bar a little getting a quick feel for the responsiveness. THERE WAS NONE! So I backed off the cleat to about 50%. This was much better. I rolled her back and forth up near zenith again to get a better feel yet. Still sluggish. So I backed off all the way of the cleat. Bertha came alive BIG TIME :o. I floated her all the way across the edge of the wind window from zenith, down to the left, back up, then down to the right, then back to the top. Ok, Now it was time to dip further back into the window repeating what I just did. WOW this bird has some power!! Starting from the left, I brought through the entire window. Not too deep, but plenty deep for the moment. When she traveled across and got close to the right side of the window, I turned her down and brought her all the way back across just a touch deeper. WHOOSH! I skudded 20' at least:o. Totally excited by what I just did, I pulled the brakes and sank her to the ground. Staked, and unhooked, I ran around like a little kid that just found a ten dollar bill :lol:

It was an amazing feeling of relief and accomplishment!! All this was in about 7mph winds. I couldn't imagine the upper limit zone of this kite!!

With the joy of not crashing my baby, I was also realizing how funky weird the harness flying was. Not bad, just weird. Where with fixed bridals, I would simply step back away from the kite to fight some pull. Now I just simply "sit" back in the seat harness to absorb a little of the pull. How cool:D. I flew for about another half hour until the wind just fizzled. Totally stoked about this new experience. I figure another few hours of prelim flights, and I'll be ready to plant butt in the buggy.

This was a huge step for me today with the harness and a depower all in the same soup. Hope I'm not rambling on about something so boring as a static flight, but I tell you I'm on cloud nine at the moment!!! Sorry I cant post up any HD vids at the moment. I live out in the sticks and don't have unlimited data, so a few stills will have to do until I can get to a public wifi for some uploads.

Thank you everyone for all the help and suggestions along the way :thumbup:

I love this Blue. And my favorite Ozone graphic design too! Just like my Flows. For some reason the blue looks really light here. Its not. Its the pretty deepest blue you've ever seen!

getting ready for battle..

up up and away....

tons of pull...

Bertha really does look small from this perspective :puzzled:

WHEW! What a day:!!! I need a beer....:evil: :yes:

John Holgate - 27-4-2014 at 12:10 AM

Well done!! If you're nervous about how much wind there is, side launch it instead of directly down wind. If it doesn't look like it's going to peel off the ground clean, lay it back down, check lines and or walk around a little to either side and try again until it looks like it's going to peel off sweet.

riffclown - 27-4-2014 at 04:41 AM

Quote:

Me and riff just flew some small FBs the rest of the afternoon. Riff, sorry I was such a downer after the failed attempts. I just wanted to fly that kite soooo damn bad! It was a total buzzkill in a way. I tried too dang hard I recon. It was really fun flying your Symphony 2.2.4 again though. It was however, great coming off the field uninjured and no kite damage like you said.

You got through your anxiety..that was half the battle.. I'm very glad you had success at your field.. Would have loved to have been there to help document..

Got any "day trip" spot that works for NNE? :D

cheezycheese - 27-4-2014 at 05:16 AM

Next time get in that nice buggy !!

PHREERIDER - 27-4-2014 at 05:17 AM

cool , thats what its about ,glad it came togehter for you!

RedSky - 27-4-2014 at 12:24 PM

For a minute there I thought you weren't going to go through with it but you did, well done!
It could have been so easy to walk away saying depower isn't for me after just one bad gusty session but you got back on that horse and rode again for a completely different experience.

I was terrified with my first few attempts at depower. After seeing the promo video of my kite on powerkiteshop and these kitesurfers being ripped off the water and catapulted 30ft into the air I was more than nervous. So I know how apprehensive you must have been. I had to rely on a 15 year old kid to show me the ropes and calm me the F down. :D

If you're into easy relaxed cruising like me then you're going to love depower.

ps: and what did I tell you about the stake! hehe :P

cheezycheese - 27-4-2014 at 12:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky

If you're into easy relaxed cruising like me

Uh, I've seen some of your videos. I don't know if I would describe then that way....

Bladerunner - 27-4-2014 at 01:57 PM

Nice read and a great ending.

Do I read into this that you have not been flying your FB kites hooked in ? I really encourage folks who want to go to depower to hook in to their handles 1st. Being hooked in and turning with just brake turns is a lot like flying depower. Knowing both and thinking about how they relate ( and don't ) is a real advantage .

Welcome to the world of dePOWer . :thumbup:

ssayre - 27-4-2014 at 02:28 PM

You need to mount a cup holder on the buggy for your beer now that you have a free hand.

soliver - 27-4-2014 at 03:50 PM

Good work J, great read, and I'm glad you got some pics added... Looks like you're doing great. Can't wait to see it in action in a couple of weeks!!!

Maybe you'll give me a go with you're new big gal?!?!

3shot - 27-4-2014 at 04:46 PM

Thanks guys!
Redsky. Yeah, I just reread your first post. You told me alright! It snatched that stake out of the ground like it was hot butter. I'm telling you. Words can't describe the "oh sh#t" feeling I had at that instance. It was either grab it, or watch in horror as it wrapped around street lights, landed a few stories up on a building, or get wound up in some tall pine trees. Ugh. It wasn't so much it was a 10m kite as it was being harnessed to a 10m kite that wrecked my nerves yesterday I think. Going to take a little while to get used to that lofty feeling of the depower too.

Blade. Yeah, You read that correctly. I just acquired my harness a few weeks ago. I have the standard spreader for depower, and the Link spreader for my FBs with the auto release. I think I'll have an easier time with the harness and the FBs. More in my realm of flight style. Up until now, I've PopEyed all my FBs. Not a big issue for me really. 90% of my flying is in a smaller field filled with gusts and lulls, so I need the extra mobility of being unhooked. I've committed myself to attending more and more PKF events in the future. I know my arms can't take 4 or 5 days of constant PopEye, so I'm opening up to harness power for those events.

Soliver. Oh yeah. Bertha and Betty are coming to the Georgia shores :D

I forgot to mention how cool it was to fly one handed as well as just spinning the bar when the lines twisted :cool:

Demoknight - 28-4-2014 at 02:38 PM

3shot, you will love buggying with that thing. When you get it on the beach and get to just park and ride, it is one of the greatest feelings ever. I don't know how well I will cope with giving up my easy beach access I currently have and trading it for crappy, janky Georgia wind when I move in two years... I will be taking frequent trips to the coast I think.

3shot - 28-4-2014 at 03:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

3shot, you will love buggying with that thing. When you get it on the beach and get to just park and ride, it is one of the greatest feelings ever. I don't know how well I will cope with giving up my easy beach access I currently have and trading it for crappy, janky Georgia wind when I move in two years... I will be taking frequent trips to the coast I think.

You, Soliver, ssayre, and me will have to have our own thread for janky wind, tears, and beers

Now I need to make me the line winder gopro mount to get some aerial footage.

Proletariat - 6-5-2014 at 09:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

I really encourage folks who want to go to depower to hook in to their handles 1st. Being hooked in and turning with just brake turns is a lot like flying depower. Knowing both and thinking about how they relate ( and don't ) is a real advantage .

2nd that, Blade. I'm a depower guy and I don't think I'll ever be going back, but learning to fly with that tiny little strop and no room to go all Karate Kid was extremely educational and helps with my depower flying.

Of course, now the idea of clipping into something that doesn't depower absolutely freaks me out.

Glad to hear you're still unharmed, 3shot

. Keep looking for those less a turbulent fields. It took me 2 years, but we finally found one that is actually cool with us being there and its like a dream.

ssayre - 8-5-2014 at 06:48 AM

Quote:

About the time I knelt down to hook the chicken loop in, the stake up rooted releasing the brakes and the freakin kite took off . I instinctively grabbed the bar and for an instance, I was flying one handed, unhooked, off the ground . I pulled the top hat and killed the kite.

I've had a chance to fly the venom a few times now and I always get a kick out of launching it. It just kind of slowly takes it's shape then just gives a slight tug as it gently climbs to zenith while turning it. That's in 12ish winds. Higher winds may be a different story.

Demoknight - 9-5-2014 at 02:57 PM

It's an arc thing. Launching in high winds, there is a lot of flapping, and then some more flapping, and flopping, and then it flaps some more, and then you finally get back to your bar and hook in. As soon as you get that down wind wingtip off the ground, the rest of the kite slides back and takes shape pretty quickly with a bit of a jerk and a pretty strong tug. Once it looks full enough and you take your hands off the bar, it changes into a teddy bear

soliver - 20-8-2014 at 05:03 PM

Just re read this whole thread as I will soon be giving my 12.5m M5 a maiden flight and want to prep myself for what to do. Healing up the bum toe and waiting for a good day to try it out... that is after I work on the bridles some.

for anyone entering the depower camp, this is a great post for info.

3shot - 20-8-2014 at 06:10 PM

So looking forward to your review of your first flight Spencer!! I've since backed it down to the 8m Yeti for time being.

MeatÐriver - 20-8-2014 at 06:13 PM

That Yeti newly acquired? Don't recall seeing it in your sig before.

3shot - 20-8-2014 at 06:30 PM

Yes meat. Picked it up about two months ago. The Yeti is a little more manageable for my current open cell depower skill.
That 10m Access was a pure tank!!

riffclown - 20-8-2014 at 06:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Yes meat. Picked it up about two months ago. The Yeti is a little more manageable for my current open cell depower skill.
That 10m Access was a pure tank!!

I remember the first time you put the 10m in the air... Flew there today.. Your old 2.5 Bullet few there today as well..

Today was all Bullets and Revs..

3shot - 20-8-2014 at 06:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

I remember the first time you put the 10m in the air... Flew there today.. Your old 2.5 Bullet few there today as well..

Yes. I needed a diaper change after that first launch. Lmao

soliver - 20-8-2014 at 08:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

I remember the first time you put the 10m in the air... Flew there today.. Your old 2.5 Bullet few there today as well..

Yes. I needed a diaper change after that first launch. Lmao