Power Kite Forum

Nose dives

dangerdan - 30-10-2013 at 06:57 AM

I'm sure this is a common question, but went through most of the Flying Techniques section and could not find what I was looking for.

I am practicing low level flying 10-15 ft above ground with a 2M 4 line Beamer. When I make my turns, I turn towards the ground rather than skyward. That's my problem. When I can't, the kite nose dives into the ground and I freeze. It was suggested I move foward a couple steps to soften the impact. What can I do to pull out of the nose dive or soften the impact.

MeatÐriver - 30-10-2013 at 07:14 AM

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but I believe all the advice you need is in your post. Do not down turn while so low to the ground. If you are referring to being forced into a down turn because the kite is losing power and momentum, try turning sooner...while the kite is more in the center of the window.

markite - 30-10-2013 at 07:30 AM

Hey Dan
Well first off I would say why are you bothering to do a downturn if you are too close to the ground and you know you can't do it? In most cases you should not be looking for a way to soften impact but avoid them all together - if you don't have room, turn the other way. However there are times when you can't avoid it like a line tangled or maybe picking up the controls the wrong way. And it is good to learn downturns, for some reason many people learning to kitesurf will fly a kite to the edge until it stalls and then try and upturn and no way the kite will fly up unless you can run backward to induce more pressure to get the turn. With enough height gravity will assist the downturn bringing you back into the wind window.
If you are flying on handles you can achieve a tighter turn with practice, on a bar it's limited a bit more.
With any kite running forward to take some pressure off will slow the kite down but you would need to run fast quite a distance and more than you could do when you are only a few feet off the ground. With handles you can throw full brake on to stop the kite moving forward but if you are in high winds there is still forward movement until you can apply enough brake pressure to stop and reverse. To go full brake throw the tops of your handles forward away from you which rotates the bottoms of handles back up toward your arms. depending on how you have your lines set this will slow down the kite and as you rotate more the kite will stop and start to reverse. This is also used to reverse launch when you are nose down.

dangerdan - 30-10-2013 at 07:30 AM

I have difficulty explaining myself. (LOL)
How do I recover from a nosedive.

dangerdan - 30-10-2013 at 07:34 AM

Thanks Mark... Full brakes on. I will give that a try later today depending on the wind

lives2fly - 31-10-2013 at 03:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dangerdan  
I have difficulty explaining myself. (LOL)
How do I recover from a nosedive.


either pull with your back hand and send the kite back up or keep your front hand down and loop it all the way around.

if you only have 3-5m lines (10-15feet) thats probably the biggest part of your problem. Most people fly 20-25m (65-82ft) and I would suggest you use at least 15m (49 ft)

dangerdan - 31-10-2013 at 06:12 AM

The lines on this kite are 20m. I tried to practice yesterday but the wind was almost non existing and today its pouring rain.

When the weather improoves I will be out there flying

markite - 31-10-2013 at 01:56 PM

Hey Dan
flying in lighter breeze will really force you to learn kite skills and handling. The more you can learn to make a kite fly in light wind the better you'll be for higher winds when a lot is just hanging on and not working the kite as much.
When using handles also keep in mind to use some arm movement to assist your movements on the handles. Pushing and pulling handles is one part of steering and twisting handles is another part.
In higher winds there will be a lot more pressure trying to twist the handles to get the kite to turn so beware that there are times when you may find it takes so much to torque that handle that the kite will need a bigger loop to turn. Wearing a harness and hooking into the strop is one way of controlling the pressure on the top portion of the handles allowing you to apply pressure to the bottoms of handles without needing the wrist pressure you get unhooked. Overall without hooking in you get a freer range of movement with your arms for steering but at a certain point hooking wind gives you something to anchor against to turn.
On a side note if the weather clears a few of us are dying to get to wasaga to buggy at least one day this weekend - so far the fall has been crap for NW winds on weekends so not much buggying happening at all

flyhighWNY - 31-10-2013 at 01:58 PM

HIJACK!! Wasaga Beach brings back some great memories of May 24 weekends..

Bladerunner - 31-10-2013 at 05:25 PM

If there is any way you can hook up with Markite or somebody local it will be worth driving a few hours to make it happen.

Like others have suggested avoid downturns too low. Your goal should be to reduce the number of times you crash .

Speed equals power. As Mark suggested use your brakes either to stall the kite or speed up your turn.

To relaunch nose down you add brake line tension. It is a balancing act. Too little and you won't get lift off. Too much and the kite folds toward you. Equal left, right tension is also important. In light wind you may need to walk backward for the kite to lift off. Once it has lifted assist it in flipping by letting the brake loose on one side or the other.

dangerdan - 6-11-2013 at 11:39 AM

Good news. I have been practicing with my 2m Beamer. This should have been my first kite.
I have been doing nose dive and hitting the brakes. Its amazing how fast the kite stops. It was not too long before I was able stop the kite in mid air and make it go back up again. Yahoo.
I have also started holding the handles at the mid point rather than near the top for better brake control.

WELDNGOD - 6-11-2013 at 12:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by dangerdan  
Good news. I have been practicing with my 2m Beamer. This should have been my first kite.


That is what we keep telling newbies, for good reason. Glad you are getting the hang of it.

bigE123 - 7-11-2013 at 04:23 AM

Quote:
I have also started holding the handles at the mid point rather than near the top for better brake control.

If you need to do this then maybe the brake lines are too slack? The Beamer has brake line adjusters, try moving the brake lines up a knot and go back to holding the handles with the power line between your top two fingers ;)

dangerdan - 7-11-2013 at 07:02 AM


Quote:

The Beamer has brake line adjusters, try moving the brake lines up a knot and go back to holding the handles with the power line between your top two fingers


Whats the advantage of holding the handles with the power line between your top two fingers to how I hold them at the mid point ? I have tried that and it does not work for me. When I fly the 4M kite I cant get enough leverage on the handles to pull the brakes and if I move the break line up one knot I have a hard time getting the kite up in the air.

bigE123 - 7-11-2013 at 07:27 AM

Something does n't seem right here, on the Beamer you don't need that much brake input, I had a 5m and my son has a 2m and you certainly don't need much brake pressure to turn/back-stall it. With the bottom of the handles pointing toward the kite it still struggles to take-off?

ssayre - 7-11-2013 at 09:19 AM

It sounds like you are accidentally applying the brake to turn it towards the ground. That's the only reason I can think why the kite would go the opposite direction your pulling. Try flying on just the power lines with no brake input and see how it does.

Demoknight - 7-11-2013 at 09:51 AM

The correct way to hold your handles is with your index finger above your power line, and your middle finger below it. This allows you to have your strongest fingers straddle the power line for the most comfortable grip, while leaving enough leverage for you to apply brakes for turns or to stall the kite. If you are holding the handles like this, your brake lines should also be slightly slack and have just a bit of droop to them in order for the kite to fly correctly. Most mid aspect power kites could actually fly without brakes attacked, but for obvious safety reasons don't try that.

dangerdan - 8-11-2013 at 06:26 AM


Quote:

The correct way to hold your handles is with your index finger above your power line, and your middle finger below it. This allows you to have your strongest fingers straddle the power line for the most comfortable grip, while leaving enough leverage for you to apply brakes for turns or to stall the kite. If you are holding the handles like this, your brake lines should also be slightly slack and have just a bit of droop to them in order for the kite to fly correctly. Most mid aspect power kites could actually fly without brakes attacked, but for obvious safety reasons don't try that.


Looks like I need to make some adjustments. Weather permitting I'll see what I can do.

Bladerunner - 8-11-2013 at 07:46 AM

I understand what you are saying about wanting to move your hands down. I have to do that to bring larger foils down but flying unhooked you are best with one finger above and 3 below .

I think your whole flying style sounds " off " . Nose dives aren't something you should be doing or having to correct for so often? Having to slam on the breaks to stop it isn't supposed to be a common move ? Most of your flying is done on the front lines. You should only be needing to apply light break pressure during flight and then only when wanting to speed up a turn or stall some speed. ( + set the kite back in the window when in motion ) .

Keep Flying and Keep Trying ! :thumbup::thumbup: