Power Kite Forum

Need 14m or bigger LEI kite and bar

beegeness - 8-8-2013 at 06:55 PM

Just looking for a cheap set up I can learn on in the light San Diego winds and possibly use for land boarding. I am very new to the whole kite thing. I spent the last two weeks in Florida with my bro in-law trying to learn. We are very unlearned in kiting. We used the kite leash as a make shift harness. We then got a harness a few days later. We did have a blast skidding down the beach and dragging our selves through the water.

Anyways looking for a cheap 14m or bigger kite with a bar and possibly harness.

How is the liquid Force 2009 Havoc?

We rode a Naish 14.5 have no idea what year it was.

Sorry to come across as a "newb"

The dude at the kite shop thought we were going to kill ourselves.

lives2fly - 9-8-2013 at 02:26 AM

Hi beegeness, tell me your weight and what you mean by "light winds" and i can suggest a few kites that might work for you.

It is very possible to seriously injure yourself or someone else using this equipment so you should really get a couple of lessons at a kitesurf school or find an experienced kiter to teach you safety and basic control.

A harness is not optional!!!! and you will need a kiteboard or surf board also

Kitesurfing is not a cheap sport even if you buy used gear and to really enjoy it you need regular access to winds of 15mph+ so you need to live somewhere windy or be able to get somewhere windy regularly.

abkayak - 9-8-2013 at 05:31 AM

"The dude at the kite shop thought we were going to kill ourselves. ":crazy:.........go figure??

Bladerunner - 9-8-2013 at 06:48 AM

The dude at the kite shop knows what he is talking about.

You and your friend need to consider everybody else that is trying to secure kitesurfing locations. If you make a big mistake we will all be held as responsible if it makes the press. We lose kiting spots all too often. It isn't just a case of the damage you can do to yourself but to the sport that matters. You don't want to be " that Guy " !

I am not saying to stop. Just to consider lessons. At the very least to be aware that your actions can effect a whole lot of people.

Look at your Own Warning Flags!

jollydriver - 9-8-2013 at 06:38 PM

Hi beegeness

I think if you look at your own original post, you should see some warning flags, even as a novice in this sport.

1. "I am very new to the whole kite thing...We are very unlearned in kiting." Acknowledging you are inexperienced in a new sport is actually a good thing. Unfortunately this appears to be the last good thing I noted in your post.

2. "We used the kite leash as a make shift harness." I'm glad your alive to write this post, but a make shift harness fashioned from a kite leash sends chills up my spine. Power kites are very capable of generating hundreds of pounds of lift/force. That much force, when applied to a looped, thin kite leash could have broken bones (ribs come to mind), or even worse, if the device had slipped and wound up wrapped around your neck. Kite leashes are part of a layered system of safeties built into modern depower kites, and should not be used as anything else.

3. "We rode a Naish 14.5 have no idea what year it was." Once again, this seems to demonstrate a grip-it and rip-it mentality. If you don't know the type/year of a kite, I would be amazed if you knew the safety systems to include depower, some type of 90-100% flagging system, etc. The kite could have been anything from a 10+ year old C-Kite with min depower and inadequate safety systems, to a 5 year old early Bow/SLE/Hybrid type of kite with better safety systems.

4. "The dude at the kite shop thought we were going to kill ourselves." The owners and workers at a kite store know that you are dangerous to both yourself, and their business. You are dangerous to yourself, because you acknowledge your a newb, but don't take the precautions any reasonable newb would take. Your dangerous to his business, because it only takes a handful of high-profile incidents to get kiting severly restricted at local beaches...and his fringe sport store then will dry-up, and fail. Search kitemare on youtube, and you will find 'newbs' getting their arse handed to them in short order by just a kite and some wind. You can also see examples where they hurt other people or have to be rescued to the tune of thousands of dollars.

I've been kiteboarding for 10+ years, and learned on C-Kites with min/no depower and safety systems which made hooking into a harness a questionable procedure. Avoid kites of this vintage if you want to learn quickly and not be frustrated by a limited wind range. Here is the path I suggest for learning.

Step 1. Get a good training video and a small trainer kite (2.5-3.5 meters). Budget $200-300 for this (a bit less if you go used). Trainer kites should be either 3 or 4 line, and in your case I would suggest one with a bar, and not handles. You want to kiteboard and maybe landboard, so a HQ Hydra 300 or 350 fits the bill. The Hydra is a training foil, which can be relaunched off the water. If water relaunch and body dragging aren't a priority, then a HQ Rush IV, HQ Scout II, or a Peter Lynn Impulse TR are also all good options, and they will fly a bit better in lighter winds. Videos are available from Progression Kiteboarding and Real Watersports for as cheap as $10 (Real Watersports just released an updated Zero to Hero for $9.99, and I believe you can get it as a digital copy). Practice with the trainer kite and get some kite skills, wind window understanding, etc. At the same time, network and reach out to your areas kite community.

Step 2. Take lessons either through a business or a kite-club. Budget will depend on your area, but expect to spend a few hundred dollars. You will learn/improve kite skills, board skills, safety systems, self rescue, etc. You can also get much smarter if taking lessons locally about what equipment works best in your area. Finally, you will also be putting the learners wear and tear on the instructors equipment, and not yours.

Step 3. Buy equipment. As noted by lives2fly, even with used equipment, this is not a cheap sport, but it is far cheaper if your buying good used/closeout equipment the first time as opposed to crap the first time. With careful shopping, you can get either a 1-kite/2 board set-up (to include a good bar, harness, leash) for $1500 or less OR a 2-kite/1 board set-up for a bit more (kites tend to be more expensive than boards). Either avenue will give you an expanded wind window. For example, I'm seeing 2013 15m Liquid Force Envy demos for $750. I can find you a NEW 2012 stapless directional board for less than $350. From your networking and lessons, you will be able to make intelligent purchases.

Step 4. Practice, Practice, Practice!!!

Regards, and for the sake of your own safety and your kiting community, do this smart.

JD

beegeness - 10-8-2013 at 09:50 PM

So anyone have what I am looking for? Or are yall just going to keep slapping me on the hand trying to send me to the corner?

erratic winds - 10-8-2013 at 09:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by beegeness  
So anyone have what I am looking for? Or are yall just going to keep slapping me on the hand trying to send me to the corner?


Oh, so you have absolutely no intention of doing it right then?

I mean, that's the deal. You pull your head out, and we'll talk. You keep it jammed up there, you won't get anything besides scolding. This sort of statement by you indicates it's jammed up there firmly, and you've not seen daylight in some time.

There are plenty of places where people who don't care are happy to sell stuff to people who have no idea what they are doing, but PKF is not one of those places.

Begin showing some consideration for your own life and you will probably find us an incredibly helpful and welcoming bunch.

You don't need a 14m+ kite. You need LESSONS. Kites, especially big ones, are FAR FAR away from where you are at.

YOU WILL INJURE YOURSELF. (Hell, we're all frankly amazed you haven't already.) Have fun with learning step by step or let us know which paper to read to see the obituary!

beegeness - 10-8-2013 at 10:56 PM

After the first day we bought a harness and red up on kiteboarding and watched numerous videos on instruction and technique. The following 10 days we were able to determine wind direction and correct set up of the kite and trimming the lines. We know about the wind window and are able to fly unhooked at 12, 9 and 3 of the wind window. We know how to twist and untwist kite lines and use the safety release and kite leash. We know how to depower the kite with the bar. We can self launch and land on land. We know how to hook in properly and how to fly figure eights and loops. We can walk and run the beach with the kite. We can steer one handed and body drag in the water down wind. The last day we were able to get on the board for about 20 seconds at a time but we don't think there was enough wind. We never once were on a beach with people other then the three of us who were helping each other out.

I do not have the intentions to pay 100+/hr for lessons. People can tell you how to do something but I learn from doing.
I do have the intentions on watching instructional videos and reading up on equipment that I use.
I do not have the intention to buy a trainer kite. I feel I have decent control and feel for flying a kite.

erratic winds - 10-8-2013 at 10:58 PM

Best of luck to you. I hope you have health insurance, life insurance, and no dependents.

JollyDriver already detailed the exact safe way to get into the sport above, anyone would do well to heed such advice.

grigorib - 12-8-2013 at 08:24 AM

I never took a paid lesson. The point is not to take paid lessons - the point is to learn (though actual 1:1 lessons from a professional trainer is most efficient way).
The thread is a bit of trolling starting with an unsafe story, ending with "I've learned essentials by now".
If you needed to pick on people senses - it worked.
If you needed a kite - it hasn't
You might want to look for an advise on kite BTW (without trying to piss off anyone)

sparkin_larkin - 16-8-2013 at 06:42 AM

Kitemares
www.kitemare.com/Kitemares.htm‎
These "Real Kitemares" are NOT here to scare you off, quite the opposite! read

Proletariat - 19-8-2013 at 08:34 PM

I have a kite I'll sell ya :) Basically, I'm of the mentality that if you wanna be self taught, good on ya, but expect some lumps. I'm self taught on land and have taken a few injuries while I've learned some important (unpaid-for-in-dollars) lessons.

To me, water is a totally different deal. I've been boarding for over a year on snow and land but when I go to the coast this September, I'm going to pony up for a (n intermediate) lesson to make sure I don't make a widow out of my ol' lady.

Anyway, I saw in your original post that you're interested in landboarding. Here are a few things you need to figure out before you go buy a kite and throw it in the air:

1) Wind Range / Volatility - Always fly the appropriate kite for the MAXIMUM wind speed (that means if it's 15 gusting 30, you fly for 30)

2) When you first get a new kite, make sure you understand the safety mechanisms inside and out before you put something in the air.

3) When you DO put it in the air, the VERY first thing you should do is test the safety out, reassemble it, test it again, test it under load, test it with your eyes shut, etc. I've avoided a number of nasty bonks because I'm not afraid to use the safety. It's good to build muscle memory.

4) Stay under 15mph for a while... Maybe even under 10mph, depending on the kite. Anything over 15 is just a bad idea while you're learning and you will definitely be setting yourself up for a kitemare.

5) Always wear (at minimum) a helmet, and preferably knee pads, et. al. Yesterday this 18 yr old kid who was flying next to me gave himself a concussion in 10 mph winds with a 3m kite because he wasn't wearing a helmet and didn't know what he was doing.

6) Do a bit of learning about types of kites. The different types of kites handle VERY differently. If you get caught with slack lines and an LEI falling through the middle of the window, you could get damn near cut in half if it catches and pops. An Arc, not so much, but an inverted Arc will ruin your day. Death spirals, staying upwind, bowties, snapped lines, and about 1,000 other things can really jack you up if you don't know a bit about the geometry of the kite your'e flying.

7) Every single person I ever asked when I was first getting into the sport told me to go get a 3m trainer and I wanted to ignore them and go get an 8.5m "jumping" kite. I finally acquiesced and got a 3m trainer and we use it to power the buggy on heavy wind days. It is a fantastic investment and I'm sure someone would sell you a used one for cheap on here (with less vehement attacks on your character :)). Just don't go trying to catch air with a 3m in high winds (sprained left ankle and knee rehab for 2 months). You can jump with your 2nd kite :)

Everyone may seem kinda harsh on here, but they're just trying to keep you from doing the stupid #@%$#! that we've seen people do when they initially get all amped about the sport. The sport is awesome, but it's pretty damn easy to hurt yourself, even if you know how to fly a kite. You'd be amazed at the things that can go wrong. Here's a good example where, in about 6 seconds, my awesome day turned into an almost nightmare because my buggy rolled over my kite lines, the kite relaunched and pulled my buggy about 6 ft into the air. (at about 2:08)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AHZdPqKC44

Anyway, send me (or anyone else on this thread) a PM if you have any questions about how to have a killer time kiteboarding putting yourself in mortal danger (well, mostly not in mortal danger.) Anyone would be glad to help, but they won't pull any punches (obviously) if they think you're making stupid decisions.

Cheers, and good luck.

Proletariat - 19-8-2013 at 08:40 PM

Oh yeah, and for cheap kites, there are a few options. Here, ikitesurf and nwkite are all good places to buy cheap kites, but 14m isn't a great first kite because its wind window is too small. You can basically static fly that thing from maybe 5 mph to 9 mph but that's it. Better to look for like a 10m Depower and take it out on some 7mph days static until you figure out how to not kill yourself. Practice that safety release, man.

I found my first depower (2007 Best Waroo 13m) for about $300 on craigslist. Honestly, that kite was too big. I could almost never fly it, so I bought another (PL Guerilla I 18m) and it was exactly what the doctor ordered (note, an Arc 18m is more like an LEI 11m or so, depending on the model). So I could fly the Guerilla in like 5 mph to 15 mph winds and that was much more like it. Even 15 was a little much to handle until I got a lot better, though.