Power Kite Forum

Can de-power be done on a shoe string budget? UK

roscopecotrain - 30-7-2013 at 06:15 AM

Hi everyone, been a long time since i posted on here.

So to my question, really want to get into de power kiting as the field behind my house chucks out some nasty wind sometimes which has caught me out and de power seems the perfect solution.
I currently fly a 3m sammi, 4m sammi and a 5m ace and i have flown my friends 7m beamer a lot over the last few weeks. I know all the tricks etc with flying handles so i am ready for the next step, the only thing holding me back is my budget, not a huge amount of spare notes around and looking around the second hand market de power seems expensive. So can i do de power on a budget? Cheaper the better people.

All ideas welcome.

Ross.

B-Roc - 30-7-2013 at 06:40 AM

Well if you sold all three of your kites and replaced them with a new or used 8m depower it would cover roughly the same range as a 3.2 - 4.8m fixed bridle and probably not cost you a whole lot - but you need to be willing to sell what you have to break even(ish).

You can shoe string anything but you always get what you pay for and older, cheaper depowers are typically lacking in the depower and safety dept.

roscopecotrain - 30-7-2013 at 06:42 AM

Thank you for the reply B-Roc, i will be keeping the 3m and 4m sammi's as the oh uses them when we go out so only the ace to sell which is not worth much.

For a decent second set up how much am i looking at?

lives2fly - 30-7-2013 at 07:09 AM

You could try trawling classifieds/ebay for a Peter Lynn Arc. Venom, Scorpion, Guerilla, Bomba, Phantom 1, Synergy. You can often find these older models for £200-300 with bar and lines depending on the size.

Or you could get an inflatable. My 2011 10m Park was £200 with a couple of small repairs. It flies fine. I wouldn't buy an LEI older than 2008 or 2009 though.

Its not a sport you can get into very cheaply but you don't need to blow a grand on kit either. if You are UK based try Hunstanton watersportsports, Surfstore, 24/7 boardsports, Surface to Air sports and 1080 sports. They all have used and ex demo gear available on their websites so you can get the benefit of some advice and secure purchasing but also more affordable prices than new gear



jimbocz - 31-7-2013 at 03:01 AM

+1 for what lives2fly said, you can get Peter Lynn arcs for really cheap as they are not so fashionable any more. However, they are safe enough and will munch the gusts on your field just fine. I'd stay away from old, cheap LEIs on ebay as they are likely to lack sufficient depower and safety features. Even worse, the first time you whack them into the ground you are looking at expensive repairs. An Arc will take roughly the same amount of whacking into the ground as a foil kite.

You could also look at Ozone Access or frenzy, the Frenzy being more lifty and popular with boarders. There's a lot of used ones kicking about and they might be cheap if you keep your eyes open. These will also be perfect in gusty conditions.

By the way, you didn't mention if you board or buggy or just fly static. If you just fly static, don't go depower as they aren't designed to be fun to fly static. Mostly they just sit in the sky and pull, which is what you want if you are buggying or boarding.

Budget for a harness as well, you'll need one

elfasa - 31-7-2013 at 04:05 AM

Can de-power be done on a shoe string budget ?? Yes :) Although it does depend on what exactly you class as 'shoe string' but you can definitely do depower on a tight budget. I was in your situation not long ago. Flying FB's in the buggy, and wanting to go to depowers, but nervous about forking out. I chose Frenzy's. They are exactly what I want, and the older models aren't too expensive. I have the 11m, and the 7m which cover me in the vast majority of the winds I get. The two of them (bought at separate times) cost £500. Which isn't a lot for the kites. I'm a bit of a bargain hunter, I don't think I have paid market value for any of the kiting equipment I own! Just cause I hold out for the bargains, then snap them up when they arise. You will have to do the same. It may mean waiting for some time for the right kite to come up, but it will at some point :) (Guys on this forum had to get used to me constant asking if a kite was any good for me when I saw a cheap one come up. A really helpful group of guys :D )

My opinions on what a couple of the others have said:

Quote: Originally posted by jimbocz  

You could also look at Ozone Access or frenzy, the Frenzy being more lifty and popular with boarders. There's a lot of used ones kicking about and they might be cheap if you keep your eyes open. These will also be perfect in gusty conditions.


I'm afraid I would disagree with this. If you are inland flying, with nasty winds, I would recommend against open cell foils. ESPECIALLY the Frenzy !! It is not a kite that is kind to you in gusts. I have a big beach or two very close to me, so they are ideal, but would strongly recommend against them for you. I would also recommend against an LEI as your first depower. It will be complex and frustrating for you to start out on. Plus the older / cheaper LEIs lack a good saftey, which you will want in 'nasty winds'

Quote: Originally posted by lives2fly  
You could try trawling classifieds/ebay for a Peter Lynn Arc. Venom, Scorpion, Guerilla, Bomba, Phantom 1, Synergy. You can often find these older models for £200-300 with bar and lines depending on the size.


I agree than an arc would be ideal for you. However the Guerilla's and Bomba's are oooold and sloooow, so I would avoid them, and if possible steer clear of the Scorpion. That is known for being a bit of a #@%$#! to launch and land solo.
If I were you I'd look at Venom mk1 and mk2, and possibly the Phanny mk1. They are all great kites, with decent saftey, simple to fly, hard to crash, gust munchers. They will suit you really well. I was looking at getting a venom or two for myself, but didn't bother in the end. Although I am chatting to someone at the moment about a couple :D


A couple of questons:
What is your weight ?
Do you (or do you plan to) buggy / board etc ???
Where about's do you fly (Just out of interest. I'm in Norfolk).
Do you want a lifty kite, or a more sedate one ?

You'll have to get in there quickly (or I'll beat you to it :P ) but check out this post:

http://forum.kitecrowd.com/sale/phantom-venom-guerilla-frenz...

Let me know if you have any questions or anything ! If you're down in Norfolk give me a shout as well.

Tim

roscopecotrain - 1-8-2013 at 12:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by elfasa  
Can de-power be done on a shoe string budget ?? Yes :) Although it does depend on what exactly you class as 'shoe string' but you can definitely do depower on a tight budget. I was in your situation not long ago. Flying FB's in the buggy, and wanting to go to depowers, but nervous about forking out. I chose Frenzy's. They are exactly what I want, and the older models aren't too expensive. I have the 11m, and the 7m which cover me in the vast majority of the winds I get. The two of them (bought at separate times) cost £500. Which isn't a lot for the kites. I'm a bit of a bargain hunter, I don't think I have paid market value for any of the kiting equipment I own! Just cause I hold out for the bargains, then snap them up when they arise. You will have to do the same. It may mean waiting for some time for the right kite to come up, but it will at some point :) (Guys on this forum had to get used to me constant asking if a kite was any good for me when I saw a cheap one come up. A really helpful group of guys :D )

My opinions on what a couple of the others have said:

Quote: Originally posted by jimbocz  

You could also look at Ozone Access or frenzy, the Frenzy being more lifty and popular with boarders. There's a lot of used ones kicking about and they might be cheap if you keep your eyes open. These will also be perfect in gusty conditions.


I'm afraid I would disagree with this. If you are inland flying, with nasty winds, I would recommend against open cell foils. ESPECIALLY the Frenzy !! It is not a kite that is kind to you in gusts. I have a big beach or two very close to me, so they are ideal, but would strongly recommend against them for you. I would also recommend against an LEI as your first depower. It will be complex and frustrating for you to start out on. Plus the older / cheaper LEIs lack a good saftey, which you will want in 'nasty winds'

Quote: Originally posted by lives2fly  
You could try trawling classifieds/ebay for a Peter Lynn Arc. Venom, Scorpion, Guerilla, Bomba, Phantom 1, Synergy. You can often find these older models for £200-300 with bar and lines depending on the size.


I agree than an arc would be ideal for you. However the Guerilla's and Bomba's are oooold and sloooow, so I would avoid them, and if possible steer clear of the Scorpion. That is known for being a bit of a #@%$#! to launch and land solo.
If I were you I'd look at Venom mk1 and mk2, and possibly the Phanny mk1. They are all great kites, with decent saftey, simple to fly, hard to crash, gust munchers. They will suit you really well. I was looking at getting a venom or two for myself, but didn't bother in the end. Although I am chatting to someone at the moment about a couple :D


A couple of questons:
What is your weight ?
Do you (or do you plan to) buggy / board etc ???
Where about's do you fly (Just out of interest. I'm in Norfolk).
Do you want a lifty kite, or a more sedate one ?

You'll have to get in there quickly (or I'll beat you to it :P ) but check out this post:

http://forum.kitecrowd.com/sale/phantom-venom-guerilla-frenz...

Let me know if you have any questions or anything ! If you're down in Norfolk give me a shout as well.

Tim


Great post tim, thank you, the same answer has been given over at kite crowd that the peter lynn arcs would be the best. Especially with the auto zenith.

I am 12 stone, i fly in somerset, i am looking towards boarding and want a lifty lifty kite.

elfasa - 1-8-2013 at 02:23 PM

No problem mate, glad I can help you out. Ohhh, I didn't see your post on KC!
Yeah, I would definitely say the Venom mk1 or mk2 would be a great choice for you in that case. (Depending on budget and availability).

I'm not sure what sizes you should look for, it may be worth asking that in a specific post if you decide to go for arcs. I'd say 2 complimentary depowers would do you for the majority of the time. Remember, arcs probably have the lowest power : size ratio. So don't expect a 10m venom to do you in lower winds etc.

Tim

Bladerunner - 1-8-2013 at 04:35 PM

Good move asking questions 1st.

You tend to get what you pay for but if you shop around and take your time there are some real deals out there.

I agree that arcs are often found at a good price. I would also agree that you are best off looking for Venom or newer. Guerilla's and older tend to sell cheap but they are slow and short on depower. Better to save up for something newer.

Inflatables are tempting and you can find some very good deals on them as well. Avoid C kites and LEI older that 06 in general. Best Waroos often show up at good prices and are a pretty good snow kite. Repairs can be a bit more costly with inflatables.

Avoid impulse buying and check out opinions on here or KC before buying.

Try and buy 1 kite complete with bar and lines and then look for kite only for the complimentary kite. Plan on needing 2 kites and buy with that in mind. That said, my 15m Synergy covers all but the strongest and lightest winds. If we weren't plagued by super light winds it is nearly a single kite quiver.



You will also need to shop for a harness. Seat harness is most popular with land kiters but it all comes down to personal choice.

roscopecotrain - 2-8-2013 at 10:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
Good move asking questions 1st.

You tend to get what you pay for but if you shop around and take your time there are some real deals out there.

I agree that arcs are often found at a good price. I would also agree that you are best off looking for Venom or newer. Guerilla's and older tend to sell cheap but they are slow and short on depower. Better to save up for something newer.

Inflatables are tempting and you can find some very good deals on them as well. Avoid C kites and LEI older that 06 in general. Best Waroos often show up at good prices and are a pretty good snow kite. Repairs can be a bit more costly with inflatables.

Avoid impulse buying and check out opinions on here or KC before buying.

Try and buy 1 kite complete with bar and lines and then look for kite only for the complimentary kite. Plan on needing 2 kites and buy with that in mind. That said, my 15m Synergy covers all but the strongest and lightest winds. If we weren't plagued by super light winds it is nearly a single kite quiver.



You will also need to shop for a harness. Seat harness is most popular with land kiters but it all comes down to personal choice.


Thank you for the advice, this going to sound really stupid but is Peter Lynn the only company that make the arc style kites?

elfasa - 2-8-2013 at 02:01 PM

I don't think there is anything quite like the PL arcs. Nothing that hs the features like auto zenith etc for sure.
I thought the HQ Matrixx was an arc, but it's not after checking.

3shot - 2-8-2013 at 02:08 PM

rosco,
Give Kent a shout. He may still have a few of these left for a future ride :thumbup:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=25067

elfasa - 2-8-2013 at 02:10 PM

I've been told the F arc isn't a good first arc. Let a lone a good first depower..

3shot - 2-8-2013 at 02:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by elfasa  
I've been told the F arc isn't a good first arc. Let a lone a good first depower..
I was going to edit my post to purchase and put away at that price ;)
Since there is a shoestring budget..
prolly not an option. But priced for a budget though.

Bladerunner - 2-8-2013 at 04:11 PM

Mandibule is a French 2 line kite that is arc shaped. Very expensive if you can even find one.

Revpaul's 12m Pulse II at $400 is an unbeatable deal !!!!

Proletariat - 2-8-2013 at 10:44 PM

Greetings. You sound like you are exactly where I was a couple of years ago when I got started and couldn't afford any decent kit. I had almost the same kites, too, and was using a climbing harness attached to the ace.... Bad idea... Probably spent $50 on my rig which would've almost bought me a harness. Anyway, I had a loaner beamer, 3 panshes and I even bought an 8.5 Blade because I figured it was a nice placeholder until I could afford real depowers. Turns out it wasn't. Here is what I would've done differently, given the chance. Hopefully it helps.

I would keep one 3m foil and sell the rest. You wont believe me (I didn't) but they become negligible when you get into depower. That'll probably start a fight, but my FBs are sitting around like an old Wii and I only use them for new fliers or ridiculous wind days on the buggy. But you wanna get into depower and so did I, so I can tell you that you don't need 'em.

Buy a cheap used harness for around $70 and buy an older RTF ARC at 13-15m. It should cost around $200-400 and maybe even less if you get a guerilla. The friendly ones are the Guerillas, the Venoms, and (arguably) the Phantoms, and the Vortex. Stay away from the first arcs and the scorpions, chargers, etc. The 15m phantom1 is easily the most versatile and dependable kite I own, followed by the 13m Venom. But the wind range on the phantom 15, for a new person, if you really push it, can be as wide as 5 to 20 max gust (but most certainly keep it under 15 mph max until you're comfortable.)

You can also get wicked deals on inflatables, and probably get a slightly newer kite, but they are not nearly as inland wind friendly. No offense to the myriad great retailers on here, but I think you'll get a better price buying used from someone directly. Since you're in the UK, kitecrowd is easily your best resource. I used to drool over your robust kite market daily when I thought I was too poor to get a proper rig. EBay in the UK is also incredibly enviable from an American perspective.

Anyway, that has been my experience and my opinion, if it helps. It may not seem like much when you sell that (incredibly dangerous) ace 5m for $70, but that means you'd only have to come up with about $180 more for an rtf guerilla -- maybe 250 for a guerilla + harness.

Good luck and let us know how it goes, eh?

Proletariat - 2-8-2013 at 11:01 PM

Oh and if you can get a pulse2 for $400 that isn't ripped to shreds, I'd be amazed. Keep in mind that my 8m psycho 3 barely flies in 5mph winds, so get a 10 if you can for a flysurfer. Also, if I were you, I'd offer about 175-275£ to that kite crowd seller if his G2 16m, his phantom 18m, or his 16m Venom 2 (in order of increasing value) come with bar and lines. If not, you can always get a used bar from ikitesurf.com or eBay UK.

So, if my calculations are correct (and they never are), you can get into depower for about £220 to £320 minus whatever yoiu can sell the sammi and the ace for.

loftywinds - 14-8-2013 at 05:01 AM

The Psycho 3 is great in 10knots. Who the hell would fly in under 5 knots? That would be amazing if it can be pulled off.

Proletariat - 14-8-2013 at 08:59 PM

Oh I can fly it (static)... it's just not much fun, requires inhuman levels of attention, and total efficiency of flawless wind chasing. I was just providing a frame of reference to the OP so he'd know he needed something bigger in order to retain any versatility. My first depower was a 13m Depower Best Waroo (2007) and that was honestly too big for self-teaching. I think 10m - 12m is the sweet spot, personally.