Power Kite Forum

Barrows to BF's... then back to barrows?!?!

soliver - 20-6-2013 at 05:04 PM

Ever since RTZ posted about tires recently, I've been thinking about getting Big Foots (esp with the link he shared to the $30 nanco BF's).
http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&a...

I was thinking I would prefer to have rims for both sets of tires so I could easily switch back and forth,... But then I thought... WHY???

Those of you who ride on BF's,... Do you ever switch back to barrows or feel the need to? If I were to switch to BF's will I WANT to be able to get back on my barrows or should I just buy the tires and mount them on the rims I already have?

Thoughts?

ChrisH - 20-6-2013 at 05:13 PM

Depends on where you're riding and what your riding style is. If you're somebody who only rides in grass fields, there is no point in buying BF's. If you ride on sand but rarely go up into the soft stuff, there's no point in buying BF's. If you ride on sand and love to go up into the soft stuff (like we do here) then you'll want BF's. YMMV

fletcht - 20-6-2013 at 05:47 PM

The only time I run barrows is on the dry lake beds. Sand, Grass, dirt, etc i have my big foots. However I do have the barrows mounted on their own rims so switching isn't a major issue.

soliver - 20-6-2013 at 06:17 PM

I mostly ride on grass, but lately I've been riding in a field where the grass (aka clover) isn't cut often enough, so the BF's would help.

Plus where we stay on Saint Simons Isl every summer has softer sand and would benefit fr the BF's.

I'm pretty sure I'd like to get them (when I can) as I see their benefit, I'm just wondering if there's a benefit to being able to switch back and forth. BF-barrows-BF etc etc.

If I can save by putting the BF's on my current rims I will is all I mean

DAKITEZ - 20-6-2013 at 06:42 PM

I switch to bf when I go to the beach. On the grass and dry lake I use barrows. The bf on grass create a ton of drag so you will need to size up one or two meters more than if you were on barrows. The bf on grass work fine just know you will need more power.

soliver - 20-6-2013 at 07:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DAKITEZ  
I switch to bf when I go to the beach. On the grass and dry lake I use barrows. The bf on grass create a ton of drag so you will need to size up one or two meters more than if you were on barrows. The bf on grass work fine just know you will need more power.


Aha,... Good to know,... Does anyone else experience this?

soliver - 20-6-2013 at 08:41 PM

These look like a smooth version of the PL Midi's... Anyone have experience with tires like these?... Looks like I might be able to afford some new tires, and I'm wondering what would be a good fit for the applications I mentioned above.

http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?s_p=Carlisle-Smo...

ie. mostly grass but some soft sand I the summer time.

MDK - 20-6-2013 at 09:22 PM

It may not be an issue but might want to think about how close your rear wheels are to your elbows, bigger tires will bring them closer.

BeamerBob - 20-6-2013 at 09:35 PM

When I ride a standard buggy, I grind the skin off my elbows. If you want to add bigfoot tires, consider configuring your buggy in a way that pushes the back axle back and wider.

The grass Dino rides in is watered and fertilized to sell as sod so it is thick and several inches deep. I've ridden there and you can blast up to the edge and pull the kite up high and its like throwing an anchor out. You can go WAY powered in that heavy grass and not get in trouble.

If you ever ride somewhere that needs bigfoots, then just put them on and forget about it. The only place I'd take them off is on a lakebed to keep from grinding them down in a session or 2. They really smooth out the ride on beaches and rough grass. If you have a sodfarm to ride on alot, it would be worth it to have barrows ready to mount up but when I rode at OOBE field in Aiken SC, I liked running the bigfoot lites for the suspension they provide.

cheezycheese - 20-6-2013 at 10:02 PM

I would check with Van to see if that flange can handle a BF tire/wheel combo. It's a lot more mass than a barrow.

IMG_20130621_005852.jpg - 80kB

cheezycheese - 20-6-2013 at 10:06 PM

When I got my first folding buggy, I was told no bf's as the axle bolts would bend and snap. That folder offered the bolt greater purchase than your setup.

soliver - 20-6-2013 at 10:44 PM

For the conditions I ride, ie mostly grass (like OOBE field) and beach occasionally (ie Jekyll and Saint Simons Isl with a fair amount of softish sand) what tires make the most sense?

Barrows (got em)
Midi smoothies like here http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?s_p=Carlisle-Smo...
Or BF lights (will require a new front fork likely) like here http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&a...

I guess what I want to know is if its worth getting BF's given riding on rough grass and soft sand, or would Midis provide the same solution? AND if the answer is to switch tires, is it worth keeping a mounted set of barrows?

ChrisH - 20-6-2013 at 11:13 PM

Barrows make the most sense to me...Although, if I were gonna switch it would be to BF's, not midis. I feel that barrows are damn near as good as midis, without the price tag. You also have to realize that those BF's are not ribbed and will slide a lot in grass compared to a ribbed barrow. They will slide a lot even in hard pack sand compared to ribbed barrows. And yes, it's worth it to keep a set of barrows on hand for grass. As Dino said....BF's create more drag and they are also heavier so it takes more to get going. YMMV.

Please keep in mind that this is my personal opinion. I have had the chance to ride with many different set-ups and I prefer barrows on grass and BF's on sand. This is for my personal riding style and the terrain I ride on. Good luck and have fun!

Clive - 21-6-2013 at 02:19 AM

Love my BF on the beach, regardless of soft or hard sand, but don't want to go into soft sand without the BF

On grass the BF are noticeably slower, given most of our grass areas are small, I just get out an old flexi buggy with barrows and fling that around.

BEC - 21-6-2013 at 04:27 AM

I purchased BF's for WildWood this year....Awesome to have both set-ups, so I can keep going no matter what the tide is doing.
I'd say for the extra app. $60.00 for new rims @19.99 each or used if you can find some... Having them separate is ideal....just bolt and go in like 2 minutes.
There is a huge difference in drag on the grass and just moving the thing around/storage with the BF's on is noticeable.
Even though they look awesome, I changed back to barrows as soon as I got home...Less crap bending and breaking when tearing up the grass fields...they also slide a lot when the grass is wet which is usually the case.
First thing to do is have extra axle bolts (at least x2) with you, so you don't get left out from having fun for a bent one only costing 4 bucks.

soliver - 21-6-2013 at 04:52 AM

Ok gang, so it seems like the only real benefit to having a set of BF's is for softer sand. In my case, that is only something I will encounter when spending a week on SSI every summer. This kind of makes it not worth the extra expense.

How do Midi's like the Carlisle smoothies do on soft sand? If I'm going to get something specifically for the soft sand, this would be a more cost effective option given that I wouldn't have to get (or make) a new front fork to fit a bigger tire.

BTW, the soft sand I'm referring to is the type that LOOKS like hard pack but is a little silty and smooshes under foot... My barrows did not like it :( ... BeamerBob, you may be familiar with the HUGE sandbar north of east beach on Saint Simons?

I might email Angus I'm sure he is familiar with the spot.

Thoughts?

soliver - 21-6-2013 at 05:09 AM

Delete

See ??? Above^^^

abkayak - 21-6-2013 at 05:52 AM

buy another bug, thats really what this is about.........problem solved.

soliver - 21-6-2013 at 09:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
buy another bug, thats really what this is about.........problem solved.


:lol:

Honestly it's really not... Just thinking about tires, and I'll probably be able to afford them, just wondering if its worth it to spend the money here or allocate it toward that 8m kite I want :D

BeamerBob - 21-6-2013 at 10:16 AM

I've had all three tire types and the midis just barely have a small advantage in sand you leave footprints in. If you hit some soft fluffy sand you better have some speed because you will lose traction fast. The grass at OOBE field won't be a big drag on bfls because it isn't tall thick grass. Bfls can slide around on hard packed sand but you can have a huge impact on this with tire pressure. Many up in the NW say smooth barrow tires are their choice, but they are staying out of any soft stuff.

So I'd say keep what you have until they cost you a session. Then if you need a larger footprint for conditions move up to bfls. Midis wouldn't be worth the effort and expense IMHO.

Angus and I rode together for 2 days on JI with me on bfls and he on midis. The only time either had an advantage there was when pulling the buggies to the beach and my bfls were easier there since that's the only soft sand on JI.

revpaul - 21-6-2013 at 11:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Quote: Originally posted by DAKITEZ  
I switch to bf when I go to the beach. On the grass and dry lake I use barrows. The bf on grass create a ton of drag so you will need to size up one or two meters more than if you were on barrows. The bf on grass work fine just know you will need more power.


Aha,... Good to know,... Does anyone else experience this?

Yes...
i had a PL Race(barrows with suspension), a PL XR+ (barrows), and a Libre Supertruck (on BFs) and my brother had a PL ST(barrows).
I mainly rode on grass(short, tall, very tall, and thick-tall weeds). the heavy Libre with BFs was just as comfy as the PL Race (on barrows with suspension).
i could and did often go jamming through tall weeds(showing off) on my Libre (BFs) and that wouldn't be near as easy/possible on barrows.
unless i was on concrete/'smooth' dry lake bed "I" would't use any other than the those buggys.
Yes...
you need more power (your are a heavier load) but i used harness(depower/strop) so holding more power was no problem.
The PL XR+ (and PL ST) was a nutter teeth chattering ride on everything grass/agriculture.

3shot - 1-7-2013 at 06:03 PM

OK so will these http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?s_p=Carlisle-Str... fit our standard PL front fork? I really like these. I know the regular 6" tire is a tight fit, but it works cause a lot of people have them. I want to upgrade my seat, get the wide axle, and a new set of meats by the end of the year. Just want to do it right the first time and avoid the return hassle of tires.
Thanks,

soliver - 1-7-2013 at 07:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot  
OK so will these http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?s_p=Carlisle-Str... fit our standard PL front fork? I really like these. I know the regular 6" tire is a tight fit, but it works cause a lot of people have them. I see these are 6.5" is that too darn close/tight? I want to upgrade my seat, get the wide axle, and a new set of meats by the end of the year. Just want to do it right the first time and avoid the return hassle of tires.
Thanks,


Oooooooooooooh.... Me likey! Can't tell if they'll fit though.

I've been considering these but will probably wait til spring

http://www2.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?s_p=Carlisle-Smo...

bigkid - 2-7-2013 at 09:21 AM

Is the Sysmic 17" tires/wheels part of this post? Not a barrow and not a BF, but they do ride nice.
Anyone besides Van and I have a set they have used? Not including the expensive ones from the other side of the pond.
Just wondering now that I have rode mine from one coast to the other. I dont use the BF's unless the sand is way to soft, and as for the barrows.........they are going to collect a lot of dust before they get used by someone else.

rocfighter - 3-7-2013 at 04:50 AM

I have 3 sets of tires on 3 sets of rims. Just like NASCAR you need to be able to adjust to conditions!!!:thumbup::cool2:

BEC - 3-7-2013 at 05:03 AM


Most important....Don't forget these........cause if one of these fails.... you can have all the tires and rims you want and still not be going anywhere....
Quote: Originally posted by rocfighter  
I have 3 sets of tires on 3 sets of rims. Just like NASCAR you need to be able to adjust to conditions!!!:thumbup::cool2:


th.jpeg - 12kB

3shot - 21-1-2014 at 06:53 PM

just a bump for a good read.