Power Kite Forum

Depower bars

Michael Gaylan - 13-6-2013 at 03:28 PM

It must be obvious I have a fasination with the depower bar..

My question is, what kind of kite can a depower be used on?

This isn't a easily answered question I can imagine. So to narrow the responses down, I will say this. I have a 3.6 Ballista and was wondering if I can use a depower on this kite. It was brought to my attention that it might not work.

Maybe the better question should be:

What set up for control would be best on a 3.6 Ballista?

Oh and by the way.. by the time you read this I will be sucking up some more windage at the OOBE field!

later!

Bladerunner - 13-6-2013 at 04:49 PM

In order to take advantage of a depower bar you need a depower kite. You have Fixed Bridle kite .

Depower happens by altering the " Angle Of Attack " . Best example is cupping your hand and sticking it out the car window. As you dip your hand up and down you can feel the power as the AOA changes.

Bridled kites that depower have a " mixer " setup. This typically uses pulleys to effect each row of bridles as required. The rows are usually referred to as A,B,C rows from front to back. The brake row is often called Z row. This uneven adjustment of the rows is needed to properly change the AOA.

Non-bridled kites accomplish this same AOA adjustment by use of stiff struts . Either inflated for LEI or sticks for arcs.

Your Ballistic bridle would have to be totally reworked to serve as a depower with pulleys added etc..

You CAN fly it on a bar although you loose the fine control that you get with handles. NOT on a depower bar but one designed for FB. 3 types are available.

Standard FB control bar = almost no brake input. Only for reverse launch and backing the kite down.

Crossover bar = brake input that increases as you turn the bar. Better but still nothing like with handles

Turbo bar = $$$ This bar goes about the job different and I haven't used one yet. It controls the kite most like a depower bar but is not actual depower. More like brake input on demand.

If you want to get the most out of the kite you have I suggest you get a harness and hook in. If you progress to depower hooking in is a learned / required skill that you should work on anyway.

Try different line lengths.

If you want to go to a bar , go to a depower kite and bar. Don't waist money and time trying to fit a bar to the Ballistic. It is like working backwards.

I know this because I spent too much time and money trying to do the same thing starting out. I now fly FB on handles and depower on bars.



awindofchange - 13-6-2013 at 06:12 PM

I agree with Bladerunner 100%.

Here is another explanation that is much more simpler - but may not be totally correct.

Fixed bridle kites have a set bridle that can not (or should not ever) be adjusted. The sail shape is fixed to maximum and optimum power output. You can change the angle through the use of the brake lines, but you are just pivoting a fixed sail shape.

Depower kites have an active bridle network that physically changes the curvature of the sail during flight. Pulling the bar in pulls more curvature into the sail (powering up), letting the bar out flattens out the curvature of the sail (depowering). In addition to this, you have a power-adjuster-strap that does basically what the brake lines on handles does, changing overall angle of attack of the entire sail.

Putting a depower bar onto a fixed bridle kite will not give you any more or less depowerability of the kite and will only work as good as your handles do now. It will not give you any more or less depower than you already have.

The bar is only 50% of the depower system. The rest is in the design of the sail and the design of the active bridle system on the kite. The active bridle system is usually accomplished using a network of bridle lines and pulleys to change the physical profile shape of the kite during flight. Fixed bridle kites like your Ballistic can not do this.

Hope that also helps.

Michael Gaylan - 13-6-2013 at 08:20 PM

ok, thanks.

I have now a Standard FB control bar, and it doesn't have that great of control in tight turns as you are aware. I am needing to have much better control, but at the same time I want to "strap" onto the kite.

So with that said. The Crossover bar doesn't allow you to be hooked in. And the kite isn't set up for depower, and I am left with the handles to get the best control out of the 3.6 meter. Correct?

Unless I lunge out and get a Turbo bar. Is that correct too?

thanks

indigo_wolf - 13-6-2013 at 08:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Michael Gaylan  
ok, thanks.
So with that said. The Crossover bar doesn't allow you to be hooked in. And the kite isn't set up for depower, and I am left with the handles to get the best control out of the 3.6 meter. Correct?

Unless I lunge out and get a Turbo bar. Is that correct too?

thanks


you can hook into a X-Over bar using a Control Bar Harness Strap/D-Loop. They are made by both HQ and Peter Lynn.

An Ozone Turbo Bar will allow you to "hook in" and does provide sharper turning.

ATB,
Sam

Michael Gaylan - 13-6-2013 at 08:46 PM

With the X-over bar, the "hook in" is on the D (half) ring that attaches to the bar correct? Different from a depower. I have used that before, but didn't feel as though I had the control I wanted.

I will get a set of handles till I can afford a Turbo Bar.

Thanks for all the input.

cheers

Cerebite - 19-6-2013 at 08:13 PM

And you can "hook in" with handles by using a strop. Most people going this route start with a hook style spreader which can also be used for chicken loop/ bar setups. This rig is IMO good when learning to fly hooked in as it is easy to "release" with a little driveline pull to drop the strop out of the hook and allow you to drop the kite or go to the kit killers when/if things get out of control. I had to actually learn to not accidentally release.