I understand the control bar to have the main lines hooked straight to the bar, and brake lines to be hooked to the single line in
the middle through the bar and then to the wrist.
1. Is the Depower bar just for certain applications such as water, jumping etc?
2. Can the Control bar, be used (converted) similar to the depower? How?
Reason: I like the idea of being hooked into the main lines, and little effort applied to the turning/steering compared to the control line set up
that pulls on your arms.
What are the opinions? :puzzled:Kamikuza - 7-6-2013 at 05:14 AM
Depower kites are designed to alter the Angle of Attack (AoA) - basically, pivoting the at the leading edge. Like holding your hand out the car window
when you're driving along.
A fixed bridle kite doesn't alter the AoA, so a depower bar wouldn't "work".
Short answer - read up on the Ozone Turbo bar pongnut - 7-6-2013 at 06:34 AM
The basic control bar you describe does indeed have the main (power) lines attached to the bar ends and the brake lines to your wrist (kite-killer).
Steering the kite with this method is pretty much the same as you would with a 2-line foil kite with no brake lines. The brake lines only come into
play if you need to bail the kite and let go of the control bar - then with the brake lines fully tensioned and the power lines loose, your kite
should flag out and fail to the ground. The brake lines can also be used to reverse launch a kite that is sitting leading edge down.
A depower bar setup has the brake lines on the ends of the bar and the power lines, running through the center of the bar, connected to your harness.
The steering of the kite is from the brake lines only. This arrangement though, as Kamikuza explained, also allows you to adjust the amount of power
the kite is exerting on you (your harness) by changing the amount of wind the kite is "catching" versus the amount that is flowing over/under the
kite. Depower kites can be used for any of the power kiting disciplines, and actually works better than a basic control bar for all the disciplines
because of the enhanced control you have of the kite.lives2fly - 7-6-2013 at 08:04 AM
Some control bars also allow you to trim the brake line tension by pulling or releasing a strap. this allows you to tune the flying characteristics of
the kite but not use brake input for steering etc like you can with handles.
I would recommend moving to a depower set up if you have mastered the basics on a land board.
I still prefer fixed bridle kites and handles in a buggy.Michael Gaylan - 7-6-2013 at 03:35 PM
Thanks so much for all the great info.
I just took a quick glance at the Ozone Turbo Bar. And looking at the rigging, it looks as if the bar actually pulls on each side of the brake lines
as well as the main lines for increased response.
I feel like I can take over the world now. Where's Pinky...?
I will need to get a depower now, since the control bar is not responsive enough for my tastes. I just can't get going on the board without being able
to bring the kite into the window and out quick enough. It is either in or out 5-8 seconds, or out for 5-8 seconds (approx) and that just pulled me
around like a rag doll.
I suppose from all the reading I did, I had the information right. Now implementing my vision is another story.
I like the analogy of the hand out the window Kamikuza gave. Now I need to get a depower.
1. Just what is the control bar best used for anyway?
2. What length lines do most people use in land boarding?
Thanks again.John Holgate - 7-6-2013 at 03:58 PM
I use the Ozone Turbo bar on all my fixed bridles. It's different to a normal control bar in that the power lines go through the center and are fixed
to your harness and brakes to the outside. It makes the fixed bridles quite zippy, gives you an easy to reach safety and allows me to buggy one
handed more easily than handles so I have a hand free to film.
One of our landboarders in the club tried mine for a day and liked it so much he bought one.
But it doesn't allow you to 'spill' a bit of power by letting the bar out...it only controls brakes, not the AoA of the kite.
I've tried a depower bar on a fixed bridle....no good. With only rear line input, the kite stalled far too easily in turns.
For my money, depower is certainly the best way to go, particularly in gusty winds, if you can afford it. In smooth winds, a turbo bar on a fixed
bridle is excellent.
Or, cheaper still, put a strop between your handles and hook that to a harness - but you'll need to sort a quick release shackle/pulley for the strop
so you can dump the kite if needed.
Michael Gaylan - 7-6-2013 at 05:48 PM
Thanks John,
I saw the video, and made the following observations:
The depower turns well but has lulls (luffing) in flight during the turns. And you must hang on at all times. The Ozone Turbo bar, has excellent
control, turns exceptionally well, and has very little to no lull (luffing) providing a near pinpoint turn. (on a dime so to speak) And you can have a
hand free.
I notice both the depower and Ozone Turbo Bar does control something like handles do as far as tighter turns. But with the depower, the kite can not
turn in such a close pattern as the Ozone Turbo Bar provides. One can use the brake and main lines to control the flight path with both. Nothing like
the control bar which only utilizes input from the main line, and nothing applied to the brakes.
As I saw in the video the optimal control would be the Ozone Turbo Bar.
Cheers
(very educational video too)
For sale or trade... Control bar.. LOLBladerunner - 7-6-2013 at 05:54 PM
Check out the tutorials that Angus put together at www.coastalwindsports.com . He does a great job of explaining things.
For Fixed bridle kites you can use 3 different styles of bar setup.
Standard bar : Front lines go to the outside and the brake lines go to the center. With this setup you have very little brake input and basically fly
2 line with brakes only coming into play for safety and reverse launch. You can fly this style bar unhooked.
Crossover bar : this bar is connected like a standard FB bar but the brake lines are influenced via pulleys . The harder you turn the bar the more
brake gets added to that side. This speeds up turns greatly but not all kites take to them. Small kites in particular can be effected by the added
weight of the pulleys effecting the brakes . You don't need to hook in for the pulleys to do there job with this bar. But you can .
Turbo bar : I have not used this setup but it is very different. You hook the front lines to the center and an adjustable Chicken loop. The brake
lines go to the outside of the bar and you basically control it with brake turns. Closer to but not exactly depower. Again, not all kites take to this
bar. You need to fly this bar hooked in to take advantage of it's qualities.
I spent lots of time trying to fly FB kites on a bar and after resisting it I accepted that handles and a strop give you by FAR the best control of
this type of kite.
Depower is a different game.
You ride hooked in and take the power in your core via the spreader bar. Moving the bar in and out adjusts the AOA of the kite ( like the hand out
the window ) . There is also a trim strap to add to this effect manually. Turning the bar sort of pulls the brake on that side sort of like a brake
turn.
Line length becomes a bit of a personal / situational choice. Typical line lengths are between 20 and 30 meters ( 100ft ) . Shorter lines make for a
smaller window so smaller power stroke . You get the kite to the edge quicker. Quicker response. Short is best in higher winds. Longer lines allow
you a long power stroke + get the kite up where the wind is often better. They are an advantage in lower winds. Changing line length can really change
the character of a kite. Michael Gaylan - 7-6-2013 at 07:16 PM
Bladerunner,
Thanks for the insight. It appears to me, that handles would be better for me on a board than a control bar. Since I can't control a kite quick enough
with a 'control' bar. Then the depower over the handles and last but obviously the best, the Ozone Turbo bar.
I will be on the look out for some shorter lines soon to try out. I want to have that first hand knowledge under my belt.
Over all I think this thread was very informative thanks to all who responded.
I will need to get a depower now, since the control bar is not responsive enough for my tastes.
1. Just what is the control bar best used for anyway?
2. What length lines do most people use in land boarding?
Thanks again.
I think you'll be surprised. I find it much easier to handle the kite on a Ozone Turbo bar and as I'm not over-braking etc it's faster and more
responsive :D
1. one handed control of FBs withouta strop? dunno...
2. depends on how much space you got, I guess hellnferno - 8-6-2013 at 10:50 AM
So depower kite are best for crazy wind with high gusting range while FB is more for continue blowing wind? I live on Palouse area and we don't have
good steady wind.loftywinds - 27-7-2013 at 09:57 PM
I just posted a new thread 'reviewing' the standard 'control bar' with my Ozone Octane 4m. I think it's the control bar, right? The one with the
chicken loop attached to the bar, no middle hole for sheeting and a wrist band for quick release? If so, I hate it. I want a power bar! Mweuuahhh!
hiaguy - 28-7-2013 at 05:47 PM
I love my Turbo Bar but I'd suggest that if you're considering one as an option for better handling, it's important to know how your kite will
respond. My PL Hornets love the additional brake input from the Turbo Bar, but my Cores collapse at almost every turn 'cause it's too much brake for
them.
Just my .02.WELDNGOD - 29-7-2013 at 02:48 PM
[rquote/
I will need to get a depower now, since the control bar is not responsive enough for my tastes. /rquote]
You can't just buy a depower bar and put it on any kite ,it has to be a de-power kite.
Check out the PKD Buster bar, it is another type of control bar used with fixed bridle kites
