AQR (Auto Quick Release)

In light of Jeff's accident and now Josh's, I have been researching and experimenting with different AQR setups. I have tried the two popular wichards and both have hung up at certain angles, one more than the other and also had issues with tangling so I have found this unreliable. but I have come accross this system which looks promising
http://vimeo.com/51314932
http://www.spiritofsky.de/content/de/Splitter-MK-Race.html (no longer available at Spirit of Sky)
http://www.alienbuggy.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=39&a...
http://www.spiritofsky.de/products/de/Zubehoer/-9679-Trapeze...
for anyone interested in the MK Splitter (shown in the first post of this thread) they are no longer available in the shop (spiritofsky.de) however one of the developers Gerd Tschampel of Germany has around 20 units available for private sale, you can contact him at gtsch@gmx.de
I have been using mine for a year now and I am very pleased with it. no tangles or binding. however I haven't been in a situation where I needed the auto release yet, but I am confident it will do what it is designed to do.

Jeff, I said kids you say a-hole both are in same vicinity, maybe nobody has used the term kids for ummm nutsack Jeff, you have a year on me and what you have shown me is no doubt way better that I have been able to come up with, I just had some trouble with the wichards, not much but while testing in my elaborate testing facility I set up in my garage (side note*** my wife walked in on this and you can imagine what she was thinking......S&M? ) anyway I did have a little trouble with the wichards but still worked very well, better than anything else I could dream up. I am going to try the Splitter-MK Race setup for the two main reasons I stated above, I really like the idea of the pulley staying with you. I'm not sure I like the super magnet part though, I will probably do as you did and connect it to the s-neck below the seat.

Quote:

Originally posted by BEC Why don't some harness manufactures just make these available when you purchase the harness...instead of their own version?

Any safety system also has on the other side of the scales what can go wrong with it.

The amount of R&D and legal caveat-ridden verbiage to sufficiently insulate a manufacturer to the comfort level required by their insurance carriers would be mind boggling.

We are still a species that requires warnings about using hair dryers in the shower. That had to require some kind of precedent.

Also, manufacturers won't devote resources to product development when there hasn't been a demonstrated consumer demand for said product. Kite fliers are a niche market, buggy riders a smaller niche within that, and riders looking for a QR is yet a smaller sample within that demographic.

ATB,
Sam

I am curious on how this really works in real life situations. I see the good thoughts behind it and do not doubt there is a use for some sort of safety to help prevent more injuries. I see the mechanics of the device working like they are suppose to ... here is my curiosity ... throw in the human factor. The pilot begins to lift out of the seat .. the device releases ... does the pilot let go of the handles???? Human nature is when your holding something and it pulls you grip and pull harder. So the device worked but will the pilot let go and stay in the seat? That is the big question for me.

In the beginning of my buggy riding I had a Libre race. At the time is was one of the better buggies on the market. Not to say anything about the Libre specific as my point is the seat which most all buggies have the same issue. You simply sit in the buggy seats and it is possible to lift you straight up out of the seat. I was constantly getting pulled out of this style seat (it would be the same result on any buggy with same style seating PL, Flexi, Early MG, etc, etc again nothing bad against the Libre .. its just what I had). This all changed when I got my new buggy and it has curved side rails to hold you in. This has saved my butt many times. Instead of getting ripped out of the buggy it picks the whole buggy up, or spins it around in the direction of the kite etc. So finally to my point I am curious if it wouldnt be better to actually strap the pilot into the buggy. So the 2 are actually one. In small light buggies I can see this is probably not the answer, but folks in bigger bugs ?? Another point ... how many times have you seen someone in a small bug (PL, Flexi) actually holding onto one side rail to help stay in the bug? I have seen it a lot If they were connected to the buggy so they did not have to hold on with one hand and could fly with both hands would this be safer?
K got my 2 cents in. Give PKF something to talk about today

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ I see the mechanics of the device working like they are suppose to ... here is my curiosity ... throw in the human factor. The pilot begins to lift out of the seat .. the device releases ... does the pilot let go of the handles???? Human nature is when your holding something and it pulls you grip and pull harder. So the device worked but will the pilot let go and stay in the seat? That is the big question for me.

I think this has a lot to due with muscle memory.... how your body works when the human/ape brain shuts down and the lizard brain comes out to play. The other aspect is how we learn to hold our handles... which seems like it should be a simple thing, but...

One of the reasons, I like the Flexifoil Prolink handles is that they raise your grip on the handles a bit and give you a concave thumbrest on the top of the handle. Without all four fingers and the thumb wrapped about the shaft of the control handle, I think it's marginally easier to resist the automatic "death grip" reflex.

Without getting into the whole kite killer/no-kite killer debate, I think that also plays into developing a "love you like a 3rd cousin" but not a "till death do us part" relationship.

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ In the beginning of my buggy riding I had a Libre race. At the time is was one of the better buggies on the market. Not to say anything about the Libre specific as my point is the seat which most all buggies have the same issue. You simply sit in the buggy seats and it is possible to lift you straight up out of the seat. I was constantly getting pulled out of this style seat (it would be the same result on any buggy with same style seating PL, Flexi, Early MG, etc, etc again nothing bad against the Libre .. its just what I had). This all changed when I got my new buggy and it has curved side rails to hold you in. This has saved my butt many times. Instead of getting ripped out of the buggy it picks the whole buggy up, or spins it around in the direction of the kite etc. So finally to my point I am curious if it wouldnt be better to actually strap the pilot into the buggy. So the 2 are actually one. In small light buggies I can see this is probably not the answer, but folks in bigger bugs ?? Another point ... how many times have you seen someone in a small bug (PL, Flexi) actually holding onto one side rail to help stay in the bug? I have seen it a lot If they were connected to the buggy so they did not have to hold on with one hand and could fly with both hands would this be safer? K got my 2 cents in. Give PKF something to talk about today

I think, when you start grabbing onto the side rail of the smaller buggies, that's a find indicator that you have started holding down sufficient speed/power where are more speed-oriented buggy might be in order.

Strapping the pilot to the buggy has trade-offs. While it might prevent an OBE. You are implicitly signed the "till death do us part" contract. If there is sufficient wind to life you and the buggy, thing's probably won't end well either. Not sure what their exact strength is, but what if you snap one of more of the buckles on the straps holding the seat in place? All kinds of fun if your carrying lateral speed when you land with your butt now kissing the ground.

If you flip the buggy along any axis, at speed, you will rapidly exceed the design limitations of your body.... with the most likely victims being the neck or spine.

ATB,
Sam

When you drive your car, how do you hold the wheel? If you have a death grip on it you can handle the front tire blow out, or not.
What I am saying is that you dont have to death grip the handles, just hold them and relax. If you cant relax and lightly hold the handles my guess is you may well be a bit passed your comfort/skill level. Not that thats a bad thing but what fun is hanging on for dear life unless you are going over the cliff and the rope is got a bit to much slack in it. Besides, a couple of times I was pushing way to hard and trying to create an OBE and with a death grip had the handles ripped out of my hands, my pinky finger is still a little tender a few months later. My fault completely, but who gives a rip? I never left the bug. Neener Neener Neener, like that basketball player on that TV commercial who bats away paper and other things with the remark, not in my house, no OBE today.

Quote:

Originally posted by fletcht stuff happens, and if I had a quick release, the buggy would of landed on me, I was still stropped in.

could you elaborate on this? do you mean a auto quick release? and if so why would the bug land on you? sorry my simple mind needs more detail to understand, thanks

In light of the latest accident

Quote:

Originally posted by fletcht MDK, from my thinking, which sometimes is faulty I'll admit. I did not get ejected from the buggy, I was pulled sideways and had the buggy come up over the top of me. Or almost on top of me. I was pulled out from under it before it came all the way down. So, if a auto release was in place it would of released the kite, and I would of had 80 lbs of buggy landing on my legs or more. As it was I got jerked out and landed about 15 feet from the buggy. Like I said, this is from my perspective, and I did get slapped along side the head in this incident so maybe my thinking isn't clear.

Oh ok I get it now, thanks for clearing that up for me I see your point, so like others have said, nothing is 100% so it is left up to personal choice. mine is to try and prevent being lofted 10-15+ feet in the air and then dropped even with knowing now I run the risk of having the buggy flip and land on me, which I imagine would be no picnic

I guess I am an odd case at this pointI have gotten to the point were I dont wear a helmet at times. I have pushed my system to the point that I know what, where, how, when, if, and for sure.
Your right in not having something 100%, but I feel mine works up at 99% and the 1% thats left over is the part I keep pushing to find. I fly overpowered more now than I did in the past. Most of the guys flying the day I was hurt had 3.0 and 3.5m kites, mine was a 2.4m. I have no problem going out at Ivanpah while everyone was flying 3m FB kites, I was out trying a 5m and having a blast. At speeds up at 40 or more I dont like the feeling and I slow down, I have no desire to break any records, unless I had a bit to much of my........ Breaking the record with the Apexx and the rumble seat would be a simple task, the only issue would be my brain and how it works for the day. Overpowered and the risk of an OBE is not part of the equation, at least not anymore. For me anyway.

Quote:

fletcht, how is Manzanita for buggying?

I stay at Newhalem State Park which is about 1 mile South of town.
It is one of my favorite camp and ride spots on the Washington or Oregon coasts. A short drag of the buggy over the dunes and you have a nice long run, (3 miles maybe) south to the Jetty, and then back to town central. Mid summer can get crowded near town, and horse traffic south can sometimes be a concern. The middle section has never been that over populated even if the campground is crowded. I like it since I can leave the MH in the campground with all amenities and my wife can walk, ride, or read in all the comforts of home. We need to ride together somewhere someday.

Manzanita is a horrible place to buggy It's my home beach and I'm there most weekends, lmk if you are in the area!

I just ordered one of the Splitter Mk race AQR so we will be able to try it out and see if this is the hot ticket. expensive yes, but what is safety worth ?

Quote: Originally posted by dirtslide

I just ordered one of the Splitter Mk race AQR so we will be able to try it out and see if this is the hot ticket. expensive yes, but what is safety worth ?

will you have it at SOBB? I would like to have a look and give it a try. And for the record, If I break it, I will pay for repair, replacement or ?
Just who I am.

I may just break it to have it for my own.:evil:

Quote: Originally posted by dirtslide

That is why I asked Chris if I could use his MG :D . I hope to have it but will have to see if it make it in time ,coming from Germany.

Throw the dice and see if snake eyes comes up, if so you could have it in a few days, if not. then I feel sorry for you.
Something about Germany sending stuff to the US, like we were at war or something. Hope Germany to Canada is better.

Quote: Originally posted by AudereEng

Slow international shipments are almost always due to customs. The US is faster than most of the EU. Asia is amazingly fast. It normally depends on how the tax systems work...

I found if you need the shipment ASAP, it will take forever and a few more weeks.
If you could care less when it arrives, it shows up the next day.

I had a shipment of kites come from Germany and after 5 weeks of no idea of the location of the package, the kite company sent out another shipment to replace the first one.
A few weeks later I got the shipment and let the kite company know the package had arrived. They asked me if the package was the first one or the second one, found out it was the first one. The second shipment was now lost and no idea of where it was.
I asked the kite company why they sent me used kites when I ordered new ones, they responded that they were new. After looking real close and thinking about it, found out someone tried to fly the kites and did a bit of damage to one of them and then put everything back in the bags and tried to make it kook like they were never touched. Torn and taped bags, line sets put back on the winders, dirty handles and 1 kite with bridle damage, and another kite that wasn't folded right and put back in the bag.

The kite company placed a lost claim on the second shipment and was paid by the shipper, it arrived 7 weeks later in perfect condition.
The used first order was reported as damaged and the shipping company paid out on that claim.
All of this started on 12/17/2012 with the first order and I was notified that everything was paid for and finished on 5/2/2013.

Not sure how to place the second order if at all.
Sorry for the off topic, back to the original program.

Ken,
did you order all the parts?
strap, spreader bar, or just the QR?

I have been looking at the set up and it is much like one of the Holt Pulleys I have with the sliding catch to hold and release the pin. This is able to spin unlike my setup, unless you incorporate kite killers into the equation. I hope it comes before you leave for SOBB, I really want to have a look. Wonder if it can be worked with one hand.
Might be a sweet setup.

Quote: Originally posted by MDK

Quote: Originally posted by DAKITEZ here is my curiosity ... throw in the human factor. The pilot begins to lift out of the seat .. the device releases ... does the pilot let go of the handles???? Human nature is when your holding something and it pulls you grip and pull harder. So the device worked but will the pilot let go and stay in the seat? That is the big question for me. Yes this can be an issue. I personally still ride with my hands high on the handles (a habit I need to break since I am now usually hooked into a harness) I think if you forced a habit to hold the handles lower and relaxed (the lower the better) and kept your thumbs straight and not wrapped around the handles then when the AQR is activated the handles should go into the brake position and that should give you time to decide weather or not you want to let go if they weren't ripped from your hands. I think how you grip the handles are very important in any case and one should be aware of this.

While I was at Jibe, my buggy went out on a few runs with other people to try out the QR while they were wearing my harness.
After I got everything back I was riding down the beach and as I made a hard turn the kite came loose. I looked down and found the QR released the kite, the strap was set too short for me. I wasnt pulled out of the bug as it was just a normal turn that required a bit more strap so it would not deploy. I almost didnt hang on to the handles and let the kite go, but being a normal turn was still able to hang on and rehook. Not sure I would be able to hang on to the handles in the event of an unexpected OBE. The question would have to be are you holding on to the handles with enough strength to hold down your weight, say 200lbs? I dont ride like that anymore, I want to relax a bit and enjoy the ride. Not hang on for dear life.

Quote: Originally posted by Clive

I like the idea of an auto quick release, and have all the parts required, BUT..... I've just bought one of those newer buggies with the wrap around side rails, these actually do hold you in your seat, I've only had the opportunity to ride it once as the weather here is turning wet/winter, but has anyone tried a system in these bugs, or will the suddenness of a big lift pull you past the rails without taking the bug with you ?

countless factors here... the side rails are mostly designed to hold you in place under normal circumstances (kite pulling from the side). I think typically an OEB is more likely to happen when the kite pulls you in the opposite direction that the bug is traveling, or if the bug comes to a sudden stop. I think with these factors you will be separated from the bug. but depending on the design and fit of your side rails the bug may also stay with you for a bit. these are all things that need to be considered if you are trying to prevent the possibility of an OBE, not just the AQR. I have padded and adjusted my seat to help keep my butt planted with lots of side load but it is shallow enough I could easily be pulled out the back, top or front wards. I don't do all the trick stuff so the possibilities are more limited.

Quote: Originally posted by jantie

why need a QRS?? in case of a windincrease/OBE you'll never be quick enough to release. if the situation occurs were you don't want the kite to pull no more you grab hold of the brake-lines for as far as you can reach an pull them towards you. no matter how big and overpowerd you fly the kite will/can't do nothing and just hang like a piece of clothing on an dry-line. and this way you still have your kite with instead of running after it because you released it... my 2 cents.

we are discussing an "Auto Quick Release" releases automatically when you lift from your seat. nothing wrong with trying to improve on safety.

I received my Splitter MK Race "Auto" not "manual" Quick Release today from Germany, and after a quick inspection I can confidently say that this thing is brilliant! one thing that I did not realize from the info and pics available online is that it releases you from the kite and the tether connected to your bug simultaneously! friggin brilliant how it does this, I have been wracking my brain on this very issue and now it is solved.

Quote: Originally posted by MDK

It is a little pricey but let's ask Josh Walsh what he would pay for it. I was a little concerned But after receiving it and knowing the quality now it is well worth the money

Not discounting the value....

There is for lack of a better term "a sticker shock ramp" that has to be climbed.

It exists for kites, photography equipment, knives, tools.... pretty much anything once you get deep enough into things.

ATB,
Sam

Looks good so far.
Mike, can you show the parts that connect to the buggy? What holds the red strap in place before it deploys?

Now the big question, what is the total cost so far? (and when can I try it out?):evil:

Yeah Sam I knew where you were coming from, I was just sharing what I had to keep telling myself as I hesitated to hit the send cash button

Jeff, this system leaves it up to the owner to come up with a suitable anchor to the bug. I suspect I will be doing something very similar to your anchor system. the black tether is what is used to connect to your anchor. in the last pic you can see where the chrome ring fits between the post and tapered pin, when pulled through it slides the spring loaded top hat back releasing the splitter pin releasing the kite only, the splitter stays with you. and the carabiner then is able to slide off the open end of the red loop releasing you from the bug if needed. this is also good if you forget to disconnect getting out of the bug, it will release automatically (but be aware it will also release your kite). I paid 283 EUR to my door. I don't recall USD maybe I don't want to know

$375.00, ouch. Then add the cost of the modification to the buggy, $400.00.
But if it works, it will be worth every penny.

If you use KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s with your kite, you wont be able to spin your handles even if the QR does allow you to spin them.

yeah I won't be spending $400 on any mod My local welder would build me a buggy for that thats true with kite killers but I don't use them.

yeah I saw that too, its in the vid I posted up top. just not sure how much confidence I would have in it, It obviously works but getting over the mental part

Quote: Originally posted by betosoria

Hi, I was wondering if you have seen the release http://kiteattitudefr.votreboutiquepro.fr/largueurs/kit-larg... What do you think about it? Saludos. Alberto

Hola Alberto.
441lbs is a lot of weight before it deploys, or more it says. That works out to be me, my buggy, my kite and Levi along with about 120 extra lbs. Also they recommend to replace it after a year, might be the rubberband breaks down and wont work after that.

This reminded me of Alvord. Mike how did the QR work out? I didnt get a chance to try it out, but I did play with it a bit and picked it apart.
Mike, tell us please.:D is it a or a or :dunno:

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

Quote: Originally posted by betosoria   Hi, I was wondering if you have seen the release http://kiteattitudefr.votreboutiquepro.fr/largueurs/kit-larg... What do you think about it? Saludos. Alberto Hola Alberto. 441lbs is a lot of weight before it deploys, or more it says. That works out to be me, my buggy, my kite and Levi along with about 120 extra lbs. Also they recommend to replace it after a year, might be the rubberband breaks down and wont work after that.

I think this is a manual release and the translation is saying even a load that high won't prevent you from being able to release it. It doesn't indicate automatic anywhere.

the MK splitter worked very well. with a couple tweaks it will be very reliable. I will post more about this later when I'm not supposed to be working

A video may help

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

Quote: Originally posted by betosoria   Hi, I was wondering if you have seen the release http://kiteattitudefr.votreboutiquepro.fr/largueurs/kit-larg... What do you think about it? Saludos. Alberto Hola Alberto. 441lbs is a lot of weight before it deploys, or more it says. That works out to be me, my buggy, my kite and Levi along with about 120 extra lbs. Also they recommend to replace it after a year, might be the rubberband breaks down and wont work after that.

The release certainly deploys under a slight charge. It deploys even under heavy loads like 150kg(330lbs). I think that this is what Jeff is taking about.

You can take a look at

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UClfLWizk0johCFls8TLlR4Q?feat...

http://vimeo.com/70873060 pass:autolargueur
https://vimeo.com/70870011

Quote: Originally posted by MDK

My local welder would build me a buggy for that

:o:o:o What is he building it out of? I can't even buy the material for that price. Unless it is steel...

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

Quote: Originally posted by MDK   My local welder would build me a buggy for that :o:o:o What is he building it out of? I can't even buy the material for that price. Unless it is steel...

Yeah I was exaggerating,

Quote: Originally posted by popeyethewelder

also, the rig doesn't like salt water...!

Hello my name is rico ..i m french sorey for my language.

translation
the width is a width for kite surfing .. not planned for salt water?
it is a real normed 52-503 width under load tested in the laboratory .. and works even in manual.

Popeye .. reminds you of me? you had a system copy (hard copy) ...
width that it works as a CE

Quote: Originally posted by rico

Quote: Originally posted by popeyethewelder   also, the rig doesn't like salt water...! Hello my name is rico ..i m french sorey for my language. translation the width is a width for kite surfing .. not planned for salt water? it is a real normed 52-503 width under load tested in the laboratory .. and works even in manual. Popeye .. reminds you of me? you had a system copy (hard copy) ... width that it works as a CE

I must apologise if this system is ok with salt water, I was given this information 2nd hand, obviously wrong. I must confess I am struggling with the rest of your post

Quote: Originally posted by betosoria

The advantage is that it releases even when it is full of sand. For example , a Wichard will not release under load with sand in it.

Not true... You have been using the WRONG one. A torsion Wichard does not have a pin. It will release with heavy load and covered with sand.

I am having trouble with rico's posts but if he is comparing to the MK splitter, the MK splitter does not use a wichard. The biggest advantage of the MK splitter is that the rigging stays with the pilot and is not released with the kite. my previous set-up (similar to the one above) nearly broke my jaw while testing it. as far as how the MK splitter holds up to sand and water I wouldn't know, my playground is in the desert and once I used a small amount of lube I had no trouble with it. Popeye, did you have any trouble with sand? when I received the MK splitter my first thought was that it was a little heavy and how was this going to affect things, well it didn't much, I swapped my strop for a little heavier one to prevent twisting and the extra weight was not noticeable. Also does the KA come with a pulley? that will account for some difference in cost. with the MK the swivel and pulley ride on replaceable sealed bearings. please know that I am a consumer on this and am not paid or compensated for my opinion on the MK splitter. BTW MK does not stand for Mike Kenley

Are we entering into a global warming debate
I have no doubt that your system works like you say.
We can only debate the differences:
1. the most significant is the fact that with the MK splitter the rig stays with the pilot.
2. the MK QR is built into the pulley system.
3. the pulley rides on a sealed bearing, not open for sand and dirt to get in.
4. the swivel rides on a sealed bearing as well.
5. no multiple connections.
6. no whichards to jam twist or hang up.
7. no ropes & balls to tangle.
8. there are more than 100 units currently being used around the world.
rico your system looks like it works very well and I commend you for developing it.

you will need to contact the MK splitter manufacture to answer your questions about lab testing. I do not chuckle at the MK splitter, but I have chuckled at some things that have been tested in labs. ok ok if you insist I will do a load test on the MK splitter but you may regret the outcome because the pulley carrying the load splits I don't think it will take much at all to trigger the system, no matter the load. I will even dump sand and water on it. the things I do....

Quote: Originally posted by MDK

ok ok if you insist I will do a load test on the MK splitter but you may regret the outcome because the pulley carrying the load splits I don't think it will take much at all to trigger the system, no matter the load. I will even dump sand and water on it. the things I do....

lol....unfortunately I don't think there is anything else out there that you can buy that comes remotely close to the quality and execution of the MK Splitter, and there is nothing you can say or do to convince Mike and I any differently, anyone who is lucky enough to own one would never use anything else.....the designer of the system you are referring to rico suggests changing it every year....?? why is that?

I have no idea if the splitter will open on sand but I would suggest it would without much trouble.

I only use the tether when conditions warrant it, high wind, gusty conditions, the moment my back side leaves the seat a few mm more than I have set the tether, the kite is released.... I still even at this stage, if it has not caught me out by too much of a surprise have hold of the handles, and could still possibly control and land the kite, if its just too much or I am completely taken by surprise, the kite is gone, and I am still sat in my buggy, alive without broken bones.

Even in a buggy flipping situation, the kite is gone, so in that case which possibly could be the only case for it getting covered in sand, I am already safe, and the kite would have deflated to a crumpled mess on the floor.

Rico if the parts of your unit are made of aluminium and the designers suggest changing it every year, then in the long run the Splitter will be cheaper, but cost is immaterial if you value your neck and back.

I am not indorsed by MK in anyway either, you have just stumbled upon two extremely happy people with a quality product that we have come to rely/depend upon for rare but unwanted OBEs. (The MK does not stand for popeyethewelder either )

Quote: Originally posted by rico

the big difference , that I have nothing to sell. I have nothing to sell.

neither do I..., I am thrilled you are happy with your system, lets leave it at that ehh because we are just going around in circles

Quote: Originally posted by popeyethewelder

Quote: Originally posted by MDK   ok ok if you insist lol....unfortunately I don't think there is anything else out there that you can buy that comes remotely close to the quality and execution of the MK Splitter, and there is nothing you can say or do to convince Mike and I any differently, anyone who is lucky enough to own one would never use anything else.....the designer of the system you are referring to rico suggests changing it every year....?? why is that? you had to necessarily make your load tests .. your real tests of ejection .. voluntary or involuntary. I hardly doubt. can you see them? for me .. below 100 euros .. I have my account .. does it work that fits me very well MK on it is the warranty? for life? 275 .. I hope it is swollen but I hope for you. you control your security system all year? this is the only contractual guarantee that makes you KITATTITUDE POPEYE that uses the width MK is not for me, not a guarantee. POPEYE you pay the width MK how ? can be a gift ? I have nothing to sell, I 'm not sponsored . no deal with kiteattitude ... it is just concluding tests .. I have hidden in the kidney powerkitenet forum that popeye know well .. it just occasionally take things ... in such an automatic width that I thought in 2009 .. it should be on the forum ;-) popeye how many have you sold MK France ? or are your return experience ... ? only some cameras have allowed to sell the MK ? it is very strong .. almost .. the lobing sorry , I have nothing to sell Continiation good to you ... cordially for all those interested I'm available on the french forum .. I only speak french .. but I make an effort to meet you personnaly