Power Kite Forum

Keeping a Blade IV 8.5m?

Proletariat - 16-2-2013 at 04:26 PM

Is there any reason to keep this kite if I'm not really interested in static jumping? The only other reason I can think of to keep this kite is for freestyle buggying, but I've never actually driven a buggy (I sat it one once... they seem pretty awesome).

I'm not a speed freak, but would like to catch a little air here and there under very controlled circumstances. However, it seems like you'd might as well just use a depower if you really want to get some float in a buggy (or other land traction stuff).

I'm really enjoying flying depower kites -- More so with every outing, so I'm leaning towards building the quiver in that direction, but I'm still pretty new. Depowers seem a little safer for inland winds, though, once you become a decent pilot.

What do you guys think? Does a 40-year-old have any business owning an 8.5 Blade IV?

bourgeois.jason - 16-2-2013 at 04:36 PM

No, you should just send it to me! :D

I don't really know. My biggest fixed bridle is 6m, but I imagine your kite would be good for relatively low winds, depending on the rolling resistance of your riding surface.

I have bigger depower kites and think that they would be better for jumping.

jeepersjoey - 16-2-2013 at 04:58 PM

You can ride my buggy tomorrow. Join us in Stapleton?

Free burgers and dogs!

abkayak - 16-2-2013 at 05:13 PM

You need a bug... I thought I didn't..I was wrong..now I get no work done on my house.. Addiction for sure

Proletariat - 16-2-2013 at 05:45 PM

Nice. Thanks, JJ. I have RSVP'd yes for tomorrow, but now I'm torn because lake Dillon looks pretty good at 10-15 (and I have skis).

Bladerunner - 16-2-2013 at 06:48 PM

8.5 Blade is a nice low wind engine.

What do you use in under 8mph winds if not the Blade ?

It is the gap between 13m and 3m FB that you need to look at.

Baluk - 16-2-2013 at 06:56 PM

If you do any snowkiting, it would be a great low wind kite... other than that, I'm with bourgeois.jason , except you should send it my way.

Smeagol - 16-2-2013 at 07:14 PM

I traded my Blade V 8.5m for an Apex III, but I do sometimes miss that beast of a Blade. ;)

Proletariat - 16-2-2013 at 07:39 PM

I originally bought it for a low wind jumping / ATB engine, but I found that I haven't flown it in months and keep coveting new ARCs (or LEIs... the jury is still out). It definitely flies great in 5-15 mph, but so does the Guerilla... well, and so does the Waroo.

I'd almost rather have a 7-9m LEI or a 10-13m ARC, but I just wonder if it'll be one of those things I regret later, like Smeagol is talking about. I mean, is it wistful, nostalgic reminiscence of a fantastically engineered foil or is it like, "dammnit, I would totally fly the Blade if I had it... Oh well, I guess I'll just settle for this __________ kite?"

Snake - 16-2-2013 at 08:00 PM

I'd sell it and get a 10m or 13m venom I. A venom II is good too, but a venom I has way more customization because you can add the mods you like and not have the one you don't like. I modded my venom up to a venom II but left out the TET as it removed to much top end. My venom 13m gets me at 15mph all the way to 25mph.

Bladerunner - 16-2-2013 at 08:22 PM

I hold on to my 9m Blade II but mostly because it's more valuable to me than it is in $$ . It has paid for itself and yet still performes. I keep it to loan out and to fly in conditions that are hard on the kite. It always pleases me when I turn to it.

I think your situation is different. There is some $$ value in your kite. If you are truly getting the low wind performance from the other 2 that you need then ??? It would certianly help fund another depower.

Proletariat - 16-2-2013 at 08:30 PM

Thanks guys. Your input helps a lot.

RedSky - 17-2-2013 at 07:50 AM

Some guy on the kitecrowd forum was asking about the VPS depower system for the Blades which I think was offered by flexifoil many years back. That post reminded me of a guy in Switzerland that offered a universal depower system (UDS) for almost any fixed bridled foil including the Blades.

I contacted him a few years ago and he confirmed this. In the end I never bothered and I've never seen or heard of anyone using a depower Flexifoil Blade but it would be very cool.

Might be an idea! :)

http://www.paraflysurf.ch/

emidub_4 - 17-2-2013 at 05:35 PM

I initially converted my Flexi Blade 3 with the super blade mod to increase the turning speed and allowed the kite to be flown more on the A lines. After this I progressed to the awesome modification for the Blade 3 by Loco4viento which gave the kite the capabilities to have some depower whilst using a bar. The next progression made by Gridlock and Sflinux was to incorporate the PIII line plan onto the Flexiblade. This mod not only made the fast retain the speed it has but allowed for more progressive depowering . For the 3:1 Pulley System, Z-Main 45 cm, Z-pigtail 44 cm, C-Main 11 cm, Front-Pigtail 11 cm, A/B-Main 67 cm, SPL 123 cm, knot for SPL on C-Main 4 cm.

Proletariat - 17-2-2013 at 11:18 PM

Wow, RedSky, that's a brilliant idea (if it works.) The theory looks legit. I decided today that I'm going to keep the Blade, even though it tried to kill me (twice!) and also tried to kill John (only once). Honestly, I think I realized I have to keep it as soon as I saw the Rasta colors. It is by far the best looking kite I own, and I don't even listen to Bob Marley! :) Thanks for the tip. I'll keep you updated on how it goes.

Also, emidub_4, I was kind of confused by your post. I didn't realize there were lots of published mods for the Blade (IV?). Is this the list that you've done to yours?

1) Super Blade Mod
2) Loco4 Mod for bar use
3) PIII line plan (made by gridlock and sflinux?)

Then the measurements of the bridle lengths are for that last mod? Also, where do you get info on these possibly great mods? Is there a www.bladeflyers.net or something? I'd be very interesting in working on some mods past the AAA bridle adjustments.

emidub_4 - 18-2-2013 at 12:17 AM

Hi Proletariat,
This is a list of mods done to my blade 3 spanning a few years. If you search http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6155. There is a fantastic topic on adding the mixer from the psycho III mixer to the blade III. The Super blade mod changed the A,B,C lines so that the kite would turn quicker without the tips collapsing and allow for no collapsing when depowered. The Loco mod was the first, a simple depower mod By use of a small line between the A,B and C,D lines. The final mod used the same pulley setup as a Psycho III (Similar to the UDS that RedSky spoke of). This mod was done way back in the days of ’06, I’m still using my Blade III today with this mod. Hope this helps and sorry for the confusion

Proletariat - 18-2-2013 at 02:52 PM

Nice! Thanks a bunch. Now that I'm keeping the Blade forever, I'll totally check into modding it with some of that stuff. I'd love to see less tip-collapse, and that depower mod looks great!

Proletariat - 18-2-2013 at 03:33 PM

So that PIII mod looks like the best. Any idea where I can answer a few questions, like:
- can I use just any old bar or is there a specific type that works better?
- what are the mod specs for an 8.5 BIV?
- how to rig the safety line?

Thanks! I'm totally doing this. :)

RedSky - 18-2-2013 at 04:54 PM

I emailed the guy from Switzerland back in March 2010 with some questions. Two email replies below-
It seems that you must supply a suitable depower bar or they can sell you one.



Hai Tom,

first of all - Thanks for your interest in our products.

Yes the UDS is still available and we sell a lot of it,
most for Flysurfer Speed pilots.

If you are interested in a conversion for your Blades,
send your kites to us and we will convert and tune them for you.
Send the kites with bar and lines, because bar tuning is part of the complete tuning.

Dont forget to write on the package and papers :

Warranty Repair and Return

If you forget, we have to pay taxes for your kites and we will add this amount
to your invoice.

Kindly regards

M.Müller

****************************

You can change your power-rate inflight, no problem.
The more you pull the trimmer of your bar ( if you have one)
the less power your Blade will have.
The wind range will increase dramatically in both directions.
Sorry, I dont have a Wind Channel in my home, so I can not give you any data.
No kite is too small for a conversion, I have an UDS-converted JoJo RM+ 4.0 for Buggy-races,
and a U-Turn Nitro-6.0.
I think 3.0 is the limit for depower. Smaller kites get too nervous for an even lower angle of air attack.

Kindly regards

M.M.

Proletariat - 18-2-2013 at 09:12 PM

Wow. That's great. Thank you. Any idea about what they charge for the mod / tuning?

This is the guy at http://www.paraflysurf.ch/ , right? I'm okay with losing some window to either side if it means I could have an *actually* depowerable foil. That just means I'd get to fly it more.

Thanks again for helping me breathe new life into my blade.

RedSky - 19-2-2013 at 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Proletariat
Wow. That's great. Thank you. Any idea about what they charge for the mod / tuning?

This is the guy at http://www.paraflysurf.ch/ , right? I'm okay with losing some window to either side if it means I could have an *actually* depowerable foil. That just means I'd get to fly it more.

Thanks again for helping me breathe new life into my blade.


No problem. I'd love to know how this pans out. The guys email is paraflysurf@gawnet.ch

I don't know the cost but it's worth shooting off an email to find out. What ever it costs it's surely going to be worth it.
You're going to be just one of a select few people on the planet with a depowerable blade!

Imagine flying the 8.5 in 25-30mph winds while others are on 2m-3m.

To spur you on into keeping your blade, check out Chris Calthrop' website K48.com, if you haven't already.

I've met him a few times at my local. He uses Blades to kitesurf!! He was the first to kitesurf Jaws in Hawaii using a 3.3m Blade Mk1 on 40ft faces with a homemade board...also he was the first to cross the English Channel by kite. (Guinness Book of Records)

There's an interesting bit on Blades vs Inflatables too.

They said: "Kitesurfing is absolutely, definitely not for 99.9% of the population...." They were right. Now things have moved on.... "BLADES are absolutely, definitely not for 99.9% of KITESURFERS...." BLADES ............. JUST SAY NO!



With a depowerable blade, kitesurfing with one is definitely possible. It would also make a sick jumping kite. Either way, if you're into your Blades then check it out. :)

http://www.k48.com/homepage.htm

tridude - 24-2-2013 at 12:14 AM

great low wind buggy motor..........in 5 mph wind, PLBF on a 8.5 B3, upwind and cruising...............

Proletariat - 24-2-2013 at 12:11 PM

I know I'm going to <headslap> but what is PLBF?

And yes, tridude, now that I have actually ridden a buggy, I could totally see how the blade would be phenomenal (especially, I'm guessing, with respect to apparent wind.) Before I send it off to get depowered, I'm definitely going to do some buggying on handles to see if it's more my thing. I just realized that I only have 2 FB foils left in the quiver, and 1 seems like too few. :)

dirtslide - 24-2-2013 at 12:13 PM

never get rid of your blades .I had a 4.9 mark I back in the day a wish i still had it ,the person that i sold it to never uses it and that makes me sad so i have asked to buy it back but he doesnt want to sell it . i now have a 6.6 blade III and one of the VIP 8.5 and will be hanging on the the two of them.:cool2:

tridude - 24-2-2013 at 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Proletariat
I know I'm going to <headslap> but what is PLBF?

And yes, tridude, now that I have actually ridden a buggy, I could totally see how the blade would be phenomenal (especially, I'm guessing, with respect to apparent wind.) Before I send it off to get depowered, I'm definitely going to do some buggying on handles to see if it's more my thing. I just realized that I only have 2 FB foils left in the quiver, and 1 seems like too few. :)


PLBF is Peter Lynn Bigfoot Buggy...........I prefer FB foils on handles stropped in the buggy........ but if need be I can go depowered with the Zephyr or Silverarrow 2. FB stropped gives a real connected feeling and grunt that I love............

tridude - 24-2-2013 at 12:45 PM

Apparent wind builds nicely with the big blades in light wind.........with 6/7 mph winds you can easily reach into the low 20s on the 8.5 B3 (GPS verified) on hardback at the beach...........

B-Roc - 24-2-2013 at 07:51 PM

I sold my 8.5 blade III for a 6m Bego which I eventually sold for my 14m Eskimo. I love depower and won't go back to FB foils. While the Bego was a cracking kite and had a better low end range than the 14m Eskimo because it was so light and fast, the jumps with the eskimo are soooo much more floaty and the depower makes me feel way more safe and comfortable. Keep it if you want as it is a great kite but if you can dump it and get yourself a big 14-19m depower, I don't think you'll regret it.

bigE123 - 5-3-2013 at 08:48 AM

Pulleys on order!! Operation depower VIP is on ;)

Proletariat - 5-3-2013 at 06:30 PM

Woot! Let us know how it goes, eh? I haven't started with mine yet, but I'm definitely leaning that way.

bigE123 - 6-3-2013 at 01:52 AM

Had the blade out yesterday, very light winds just to get a feel for it again as it's been a while since it was last out. Did some static flying as it really needed working to keep it flying. But when it powered up there's nothing like that big powerhouse as you lean back, the lines tension and start to whistle.
Will post some pics up and a review, weather is looking dire here for the next few days which will give me some time to make my UDS up. Just need the delivery.

Proletariat - 18-3-2013 at 10:13 PM

Here is a guy who modded a Blade IV VIP 8.5m and it looks pretty good. I'd like to see it in a little stronger wind and with more room, but ... nice!

not cheap from http://www.paraflysurf.ch/

skimtwashington - 19-3-2013 at 05:07 AM

cheaper to make homemade... but probably difficult. Even applying and tuning ready made is likely difficult.

They( http://www.paraflysurf.ch/) recommend you send to them to attach and tune.

The prices:shocked2::

- UDS-III ( Softkite Power Management System ) : 130,- EUR($200US)

- UDS-Kite-Conversion : 50,- EUR

- UDS-Kite-Tuning : 50,- EUR

bigE123 - 19-3-2013 at 05:54 AM

My VIP is now sporting a homemade UDS. Took a couple of flights to get it set-up but it now flies with de-power.
Full de-power kite flies a lot faster through the window, generating the power with speed, with less lift when sent up.
Full power kite is slower but generates more power.

First flight I just concentrated on making sure the A/B/C changes were as they should be. Second flight sorted the brake to UDS line length.

UDS prior to fitting:


First flight all fitted, static flying with handles:


From the initial flights I've had there is no detrimental effects or compromises to the flying, now I can control the speed / power

That's the ticket.

skimtwashington - 19-3-2013 at 08:01 AM

Any formula for making UDS? I suppose there's different dimentions for kites based on brand model and size?

Looks fairly simple once you know how...disregarding the fine tuning after.

Is it a pair of what is pictured you use?Brake and power lines both connect to one UDS?

It's intersting, very practical.... but still havent grasped the whole dynamics of it yet.:rolleyes:

Can you also take a kite that is NOT a lifty kite and make it lifty with this UDS(or another style), but adjusted alternatively(AOA) :puzzled:

*I'm sure the set up, dynamics have been discussed in old thread.......... but damned to find all that.

bigE123 - 19-3-2013 at 09:24 AM

First off the UDS it's self is generic. The Blade has four groups of bridles A/B/C for the AoA and D for the brakes, so it needed to cater for three bridle points plus brake line. The lines are not done by formula as they can be pretty much any length you want as long as it's long enough to work. The critical thing is that when the brake/power lines are together the A/B/C lines are the same length.
I have also set two limits to match the standard blade AoA adjuster which was +/- 2.5cm.

Try this link it shows a five bridle UDS. http://www.enrighthome.fsnet.co.uk/page3.htm

The picture shows just one side there is another one in blue :-)

As for making a kite lifty I don't see any reason why not but would depend on the kite.

Proletariat - 20-3-2013 at 10:12 PM

Brilliant! Thanks, bigE! Now I know what my next project will be. What line did you use for the UDS? I just got some 500lb Spectra and also some 400lb blueline. Think either of those would do the trick? Been thinking a lot about the blade lately, too. Great timing!

bigE123 - 21-3-2013 at 02:12 AM

I used 3mm dyneema 450kg. Maybe a bit of an overkill but I did n't want to introduce a weak link. Plus a knot in a line can half the breaking strain so don't skimp. I ordered 10m of red and 10m of blue, I probably used @7m of each. I used Riley RM302 pulleys but have also used Ronstan kite bridle pulley blocks.

Good luck let me know if you need any other advice

bigE123 - 21-3-2013 at 03:52 AM

Just measured my UDS to give you an idea of my set-up:
88cm from power line end to A bridle end
27cm from power line end to the knot where the other two pulleys join.

Looking at the pic bottom lhs is the power line end, rhs bottom (with the loop) is the "A" bridle point
The second looped piece is a stop to prevent overpower.
Black/yellow line top is the brake line, where it joins the red line that is the stop for limiting low AoA and stopping the kite overflying.

Proletariat - 2-5-2013 at 08:34 PM

Line acquired. Operation blaDepower commencing.

bigE123 - 3-5-2013 at 01:15 AM

Good luck :D drop me a u2u if you need any advice or post it up so everyone can see.

Proletariat - 4-5-2013 at 01:11 AM

Hrm... I went a completely different direction with my UDS. I took a ton of pictures, but let me see if it flies tomorrow. You didn't rewire the A,B, and C bridles Arty all, did you? I went back and forth, but I finally settled on leaving the stock bridle config intact, just rewiring the ABC terminators to my UDS bridle.

Also, before doing this, I never realized that the cross line (from C5 to the A bundle) was adjustable! It seems the blade has entire personalities I have yet to explore. Anyway, I'll post pics tomorrow as I finish wiring everything up.

bigE123 - 4-5-2013 at 02:15 AM

All bridling remains "stock" the UDS is connected to the ends of the bridles:
This is the AAA that was fitted, which is now replaced with the UDS :

My UDS replaced the AAA with no bridle mods, the pics of my UDS shows one end (plus the limit line) with a loop (for the "A" bridle) and two with knots, you'll see above why that is.

Proletariat - 4-5-2013 at 10:10 AM

Yeah, that's what I did also, but I considered modding the bridle to be in rows. Then I figured flexifoil knows their trade, so I left it alone. However, rather than replacing the AAA with real time adjustable AAA, I went for a full depower approach that adjusts full AoA like some of my other depowers. I'll post pics in just a few. This could be the worst idea I've ever had, but we we'll know shortly :)

Proletariat - 4-5-2013 at 11:02 PM

Still alive and it worked pretty much as intended, but not as depowerable on handles as I had hoped. I'll try it again with a bar on the beach in a few days, but I think the general premise worked. Still working on getting my photos up somewhere (who do you use, BigE?). The premise is this:

The entire kite pivots off the A bridle, which is tied directly to the power lines. Then, when you apply brake line pressure, D gets most of the force, C gets 1/2 of D and B gets 1/2 of C, and the travel distance diminishes accordingly.

It worked okay, but the "bar pressure" while using handles was almost more than I could handle in 16mph winds. Oh, and it was still incredibly lifty at the top of the window, but that's what a Blade is all about. I could sheet out and dump some of that power, but not as much as I wanted to.

bigE123 - 6-5-2013 at 02:10 AM

Brave man doing a test flight in 16mph winds!! I use http://photobucket.com for my image hosting, there are plenty who do free image hosting but I've not had any problems with them. Be interesting to see what you have done. I don't think you'd ever get the full de-power range of a pure de-power kite, but what you should get is a kite you can trim on the fly giving some de-power to cater for surges or lulls in the wind.