Power Kite Forum

Building a shared quiver?

mahgnillig - 16-2-2013 at 10:10 AM

Hi all :)

I finally got to fly my new 7.5m Apex III yesterday... albeit in incredibly low wind conditions (4-5mph). I did manage to get moving on the snow, but when it came to turning to go back the other way, most of the time the kite just stalled at the top of the window and I had to land it then relaunch when a gust came along.

All of this was pretty boring for my hubby, who sat on a rock and watched (though he did fly the kite static for a few minutes). He's pretty interested in getting his own kite now, but I'm not sure what size to tell him to look for. I'm assuming what we'll want to do is get a range of kite sizes for different wind conditions so when the winds are low we can size up and when the winds are high we can size down. But for now, we're going to be on the lookout for one additional kite that will be suitable for dragging a 250lb guy on skis. Any thoughts on the size we should look for? 10m? 12m? At this point we're looking at foils since neither of us are really interested in kiting on water (we'll be switching to buggies or doomwheels in the summer).

Bladerunner - 16-2-2013 at 11:15 AM

It sounds like you are different enough in size that you can He can ride 1 size larger than you in the same winds. Once skills are there. The win lose is that you may want a 4 or 5 kite quiver so that you both have similar in size. 10m tends to be a good all round size . A good second kite. From there a 12 and then maybe a 5 if you find you need a smaller one ? Or 14 if low wind is your norm ' ?

If you have don't have a trainer kite make sure your partner has complete control of the 7.5 before stepping up.

John Holgate - 16-2-2013 at 02:33 PM

Quote:

most of the time the kite just stalled at the top of the window and I had to land it then relaunch when a gust came along.


If you were trying to turn the kite up and over, then yes, in light winds you'll stall the kite. Try turning the kite down - under - then back the other way (a downloop) instead. This way you use gravity to help keep the kite inflated and moving. You'll end up with crossed lines but you can down loop at the other end of the run or spin the bar to uncross them. Or loop the kite back the other way - the Apex turns just quick enough to get away with it.

Proletariat - 16-2-2013 at 04:12 PM

Also to fix that stall, I've found that you can pull the bar in a little to keep it from overflying the window due to too much speed (pull in == power, but pull in also == fly more slowly).

So, to add to Mahgnillig's question, I was thinking for LEI's (in order of acquisition), 13m, 9-10m, 6-7m and then I have pretty good coverage. Is this about the same as foils? I know a lot of people say to start on the Apex 7.5m or 10m, depending on your level of comfortabilityness (yes, I just made up that word... you're welcome.)

Is it a good idea to get a kite every 3-4m or so to begin?

mahgnillig - 17-2-2013 at 11:41 AM

Thanks for the tips :) I was having a lot of trouble with stalling, but I put it down to the incredibly light winds. Next time I will try down turns instead of up turns and see what happens... I was avoiding doing that because I didn't want to loop such a massive kite on my first outing with it! I also had trouble with the length of throw on the bar... I'm short (5'2") with short arms and wasn't able to push the bar out fully while skiing. Neither was I able to comfortably reach the landing/reverse launch line, but thankfully I could just about reach the primary safety. Is there some way to alter the distance of the controls while still allowing the kite to have it's full range of power/depower? I looked at the manual and it didn't really help my understanding any. I did try messing with the trim straps, but couldn't figure out if it was helping or hindering :dunno:

No worries about the trainer situation... hubby and I both have 2.5m Prism Snapshots with plenty of flight time on them. We just repaired his after a nasty kite vs tree incident a few months back, and it now works fine (he was doing all sorts of loops on it while I was setting up the Apex). We're starting slowly with the Apex 7.5 and will take turns on it until we're got the hang of depower, but he definitely needs his own kite! From what you guys are saying, it seems like we should be looking for a 10m depower foil rather than a 12m? Aside from another Apex or an Ozone Access, are there any other makes/models that we should particularly look for or avoid?

Thanks!

Snake - 17-2-2013 at 12:49 PM

Maybe you should get a peter lynn arc. They are good for gusty winds and they auto-zeinth. Auto-zeinth is where the kite will automaticly fly directly to zenith (12:00) and stay there when you let go of the bar.They do lose a bit of are so a 13-15 meter is equal to a 10 meter bridled kite.

A venom I or II, a synergy, and a phantom I or II would all be good choices. A guerilla I or II and a bomba are good choices to is you don't plan on jumping and don't mind a slow kite and slow turning. F-arcs, scorpions, and chargers should be avoided as they are for advanced riders.

John Holgate - 17-2-2013 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

I also had trouble with the length of throw on the bar... I'm short (5'2") with short arms and wasn't able to push the bar out fully while skiing. Neither was I able to comfortably reach the landing/reverse launch line


For some reason, HQ believes we all have really long arms....

A few of us in Aus have taken the chicken loop off and replaced it with a ronstan snap shackle or similar: that gives you back a few inches.

I like to fly with the bar about half way in - that gives me the ability to power up the kite when needed or to depower a little - I adjust the trim strap to suit the wind so that the bar ends up where I want it. If the kite loses speed or begins to stall - push the bar out. Once the kite is up to speed you can pull the bar in for some power. It's just like sticking your hand out the car window at speed and adjusting the angle...Ronstan snap shackle

Feyd - 21-2-2013 at 03:38 PM

I just had a lesson with two women in your size range and they also had issues with the reach on the bar and the brakes. John's solution is pretty good for shortening the reach but even if the CL was a little smaller it might help.

One of the most common mistakes new riders have is stalling the kite by perpetually pulling the bar in. Like right to the safety. We discussed this today as both students were doing it. Eventually we broke the habit and things got a lot easier and they were up and riding but it would have gone a lot faster if there wasn't the issue of pulling the bar in.

The other common error with first timers is accidental hat poppage. :rolleyes:

But bar reach has been an issue since the first Apex 1. God help you if you are in a waist harness.

krumly - 21-2-2013 at 04:43 PM

It's a bit of tinkering, but I have set up the bars I use with Arcs to use closed rigging thimbles instead of chicken loops, and a Wichard 2674 Safety Shackle on the spreader bar instead of the hook. There is a loop TIG welded to the shackle to fasten the leash QR to. It puts the bar a good 3" closer to my body. I also use a seat harness.

krumly

Wichard Shackle lores.jpg - 171kB

mahgnillig - 21-2-2013 at 06:29 PM

I definitely like the sound of replacing the chicken loop with one of those shackles... the chicken loop on the Apex is huge!

I don't have access to a welder, so welding stuff isn't going to be an option for me. But if someone could post up the exact kind of shackle that I'd need to buy and a picture of how to do it, I'm totally interested :thumbup:

My harness is a Mystic waist/seat harness, so the spreader bar isn't super low like some seat harnesses are. It does have an integrated strap to anchor the spreader bar down though, and if I crank that down tight it stops the bar from riding up when it's taking the strain of the kite. I do wish it had adjustable straps between the leg parts and the waist part though... that way I could make it sit on my hips like a backpacking hip belt.

Feyd - I haven't managed to tug the top hat by accident yet... I'm sure it's just a matter of time though :lol: