Power Kite Forum

What could have prevented this accident?

generotti - 10-2-2013 at 03:56 PM

What is he doing wrong, and how can accidents like this be prevented other than staying out of high winds with a lack of experience?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeztcqfpKog

MDK - 10-2-2013 at 04:06 PM

you answered your question. :) loop the kite to keep it powered up, but it looks like it was a fixed bridal kite, not the best choice for jumping big. so to answer your question everything was wrong, wrong kite, wrong wind, wrong pilot.

WELDNGOD - 10-2-2013 at 04:25 PM

This happens when people DON'T listen to the OGs. " I wanna jump" and " I don't want to waste my money on a little kite". darwin comes home to roost sometimes.... LOL

generotti - 10-2-2013 at 04:56 PM

Haha thanks guys!

bigkid - 10-2-2013 at 05:07 PM

Do a bit of research here on the forum, and you will find the answer to your question.

Sorry, now that the button has been pushed..........the fact that you have to ask is nothing more than the simple proof that you are not, should not, and will never be, a person I would want to fly with, around, or in the same town with. The only thing that the idiot had on his side in the video is the fact that his legs stayed under him upon impact. Imagine his head being the first thing to hit the ground.
I Could go on and on about this, now search the forum and get a clue my friend.

But since you asked what could have prevented this accident, NOTHING. WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT, I CAN COME UP WITH 15 THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE EVENT. nuff said.

zero gee - 10-2-2013 at 05:36 PM

That's the edited version. The original had them freaking out running to help (camera at the ground, I think) and him gasping for air and moaning in agony. I think someone calls for ambulance (camera shuts off). YUP, Stupid! :thumbdown:

generotti - 10-2-2013 at 05:42 PM

I've been on the forum for a while now and have done plenty of research. I just wanted some more opinions.. The best way to stay safe is prevention, he never should have been in the position he was in. What I was asking more or less is what can be done if for some reason you catch a gust of wind during a jump and are put into a similar position. What do you do if you are in the air higher than you feel comfortable?

Kamikuza - 10-2-2013 at 05:58 PM

Said it before and I'll say it again - you're mad to do that kind of thing and asking for injuries.

It looks to me like he was lobbed by a gust so there's nothing he COULD have done - the lines would be slack at the crucial moment, like someone said. So you couldn't loop or redirect the kite even if you wanted to... dirty wind doesn't help at all.

You want to jump big? Get a board and get on the water... the landings aren't so punishing. Or jump off sand dunes in light wind with a big kite.

MDK - 10-2-2013 at 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by generotti
What do you do if you are in the air higher than you feel comfortable?


pray for a soft spot to land. really that's it. you increase the risk of this happening if you choose to do the jumping thing. except the risk or choose a safer kiting activity.

BEC - 10-2-2013 at 06:47 PM

The answer is a 1.8 meter kite until he knew how to handle himself a little better.... that is how that could of been avoided...

As you get better and better flying you don't have to ask a question like that...you already have the knowledge. :crazy:

Helmets help too! Wear one....

Kober - 11-2-2013 at 12:32 AM

accident |ˈaksidənt| noun
1 an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury:

.... it happens to the best ....... You can find some videos where seasoned kiters do stupid mistakes or conditions change unexpectedly ..... and its easy to see all don'ts when you watch video and dont know whole story....
... So.... this guy maybe is a very good kiter .... maybe he kite all day long with this kite on this location and never was able to jump higher then 3' .... then wind start blowing ... he jump 4' ... then 5' ...... all excited ..... and finally single stupid gust lift him up and drop like a rock ..... its hard to prevent accidents like this .... I am just sad that I dont see hamlet on his head ,,,,
... It almost happened to me .....
I was flying 19m when after all day of straggling wind picked up .... It was so much fun ...... then one gust lift me up ..... then another ...... I pull safety just in time before next big 55mph gust ..... there was 10 another kiters that get lifted by this one ...... high .... very high .... thankfully nothing happened to anyone ....
After arriving home I check wind data ,,,, Thin whole day wind did no go above 20mph ...... except those 3 gusts .....

....For me its very important to wear protective gear , try not to kite alone, know you limits, and keep eye on changing wind conditions ....

....

bourgeois.jason - 11-2-2013 at 01:07 AM

Some of you are being quite harsh with the original poster. He was basically asking what you would have done in this situation. This isn't him in this video. He didn't cause the accident. I'm sure he doesn't want to be in a situation like this.

Gusts can be a bummer. I've never jumped like that, but I have had the kite ripped from my hands a few times. Even a 2' jump that is unintentional is not fun. If I feel like I am no longer in control of the situation, I am no longer enjoying myself, and I put the kite down.

Some gusts can eat your lunch.

joedy - 11-2-2013 at 04:15 AM

I agree with Jason. I don't think that the poster is a part of the video experience, but is using it as a tool for discussion.

Even the best of us have been spanked by the wind even in the most ideal of conditions, so it's not unreasonable to have a good discourse on what happened and what should have been done to prevent it. This is a good way for new flyers to learn of the dangers that our sport presents and to see first hand what can happen quickly and without warning.

Do you ever read any of the NTSB Accident Reports? They're fascinating to read not for their morbidity, but from the thought processes that they evoke. Simply put, it allows you to put yourself in that position and imagine what you would have done differently. When you're a new aviation pilot, the obvious solutions aren't so obvious, but as you gain experience, the wisest courses of actions become plain and evident.

In this case, the pilot was made a series of bad decisions.... no helmet, flying a kite that is clearly too large for the wind conditions, flying in gusty wind and so on. I cannot imagine that this person landed without any injury and if he did, I would be amazed.

-joedy

That's now a classic notorious kite video

skimtwashington - 11-2-2013 at 07:38 AM

And another below*.....

What if you didn't even want to jump and were coming in to put it down...(with lots of others kiting in same winds)...But.. what could you have done to prevent this?

*Anothor Scary classic kite video:


All new kiters should see these films just like I had to watch "Death on the Highway" film at driving school before I got my drivers licence at 16 1/2.

It might stop some from ever doing-not meaning to scare them off completely after watching-but it least they'll understand the cautions fully.

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

RedSky - 11-2-2013 at 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by generotti
I've been on the forum for a while now and have done plenty of research. I just wanted some more opinions.. The best way to stay safe is prevention, he never should have been in the position he was in. What I was asking more or less is what can be done if for some reason you catch a gust of wind during a jump and are put into a similar position. What do you do if you are in the air higher than you feel comfortable?


If you find yourself unintentionally lofted then you're nothing more than a passenger. Fate had already been written when you got up that morning to go jump.

Prevention is better than the cure. Gusty inland winds can and do kill. There's usually one fatality per year from static jumping.

The appeal of jumping is too strong for anyone to resist. Even now I like to static jump at the beach. It's great fun but I learnt the hard way about gusts. Back in 1999 I had to drive myself to hospital after being savagely lofted. I launched a Blade 4.9 in 35mph winds (dumb) and landed with probably about 30mph horizonal speed onto some exposed bedrock and busted my ankle wide open. I've never before or since felt pain like it. I admit that once I got in the car and away from onlookers, I cried with pain.

Avoid gusts like the plague. Myself and others have been through these accidents for you so you don't have to.


What makes a good pilot is not skill but understanding the wind.

Kites aren't dangerous, people are.

flyjump - 11-2-2013 at 08:07 AM

I do the same thing. Each time i start a new hobby or activity i always watch the worst case scenario so that I can be prepared mentally.

BeamerBob - 11-2-2013 at 09:07 AM

Big Kid that was a bit harsh (uncalled for) a response for someone asking a question about a video. He didn't make the video, fly the kite or even say he wanted to jump. The other responses have been right on target. More experience, better conditions, helmet. Knowledge not to be doing that in those conditions.

jpleo - 11-2-2013 at 09:21 AM

What bearmerbob said:thumbup: Being a newer member on the forum I have noticed that several forum members are rude when we ask questions. I am sometimes afraid to post a question out of fear of a bashing

Bladerunner - 11-2-2013 at 09:27 AM

I am happy to wake up to clearer heads on this topic.

I agree that dumping on this poster for starting a discussion on safety was very unfair. We all had questions getting started . It is the folks who don't ask questions like this but just go out and try to jump like on Utube that we need to get down on.

Nobody got all on BigKids case when he nearly killed himself. Why does he feel compelled to jump all over others that are entering the sport and asking the right questions?

cheezycheese - 11-2-2013 at 09:29 AM

The best prevention for that accident would have been a condom... ;)

bigkid - 11-2-2013 at 10:13 AM

I think about the response "a bit harsh" and I wonder how it feels to the guys mom and dad standing next to the kid in the hospital. A bit harsh, this is a sport that doesn't have a do over button. If we were talking about Chess or Monopoly, yes, I was to harsh.

I have to laugh at the condom post, because I was thinking in response to a few months later.
Better yet, Why ask us? Why not ask the person in the video, or at least the person who filmed it. That is what I would do, and along the main questing, I would ask a few others.
And I would go back in about 10 years and ask again. With all the pride and fearless attitude gone and replaced with pain and limited movement, see if he still has the same outlook.

I have bought kites that have arrived with the customs label of "TOY" on it, while others come with a full page of what not to do and a disclaimer basically saying, "kites can kill if you are stupid".
I think the "Toy" label is a bit harsh.

MDK - 11-2-2013 at 10:23 AM

Jeff was a little harsh, but I think most of us know Jeff and know that he is sort of a tough love kind of guy :) I hope the poster did take me wrong, just giving an honest answer. he did mention in his 3rd post "What I was asking more or less is what can be done if for some reason you catch a gust of wind during a jump and are put into a similar position. What do you do if you are in the air higher than you feel comfortable?" well jumping is like...... well inducing labor :dunno: what im trying to say is if he didn't take the jump it more than likely would not have happened, the handles would have probably ripped from his hands. so it's simple, if your going to jump....except the risks. and (off topic a bit) while on the subject of jumping, I always tell people who want to jump with the kite, to climb an 10 foot step ladder to the top and jump (without a kite), if they cant or don't have the physical ability to do that then they have no business kite jumping. again I know this last bit does not pertain to the question but wanted to get that out.

bigkid - 11-2-2013 at 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Nobody got all on BigKids case when he nearly killed himself. Why does he feel compelled to jump all over others that are entering the sport and asking the right questions?

Its funny that you live so close to me, I would have thought that you would have had to cover your ears because of the level of yelling and all the words that only truck drivers and killers use. You have no idea what I had to endure besides the "nearly killing myself", from my family members and not to mention my wife.
Do you think for one minute that I don't hear about that day, 24/7? You have got to be living in some lala land.
For what it worth, I was the bread winner with a very very comfortable life style that came to an end on June 13th 2010. After a ton of money and 2 business that are now gone, my wife is the bread winner.

"Nobody got all on BigKids case when he nearly killed himself", I would rather have had you all call me all kinds of names than have to put me wife and family through this.
It's one thing to go out and try to get big air, it's a totally different thing to get it unexpectedly.
I'm done.

skimtwashington - 11-2-2013 at 11:37 AM

Quote:

I launched a Blade 4.9 in 35mph winds
OMG!:o.....


Quote:

I always tell people who want to jump with the kite, to climb an 10 foot step ladder to the top and jump (without a kite), if they cant or don't have the physical ability to do that then they have no business kite jumping


interesting advice.

So....

I wonder if Generotti has jumped.... or plans to jump:puzzled:

shortlineflyer - 11-2-2013 at 12:10 PM

I dont agree with what big air jumpers do. its dangerous unless done right and most dont. the problem is the number of things that can go wrong. I do kite jumping shen i go out and i take as many precautions as possible(kne pads full face helmet, goggles). I dont go out when there are large gusts and I know my limits and when it is time to pack up. I think that is something that is necessary to kite jump. If you dont know your limits you will end up in a situation you cant control and something will go wrong.

Now there is another side. I usually do small jumps (under 5 feet) but things can still go wrong. even on great days with steady wind there will still be gusts sometimes. its happened to me. I was doing a jump and and i went up about 4 or 5 feet and started to go down and got a gust and shot up another 10 or 15. sometimes gusts just happen and you just have to ride it out.

shehatesmyhobbies - 11-2-2013 at 01:16 PM

I think the most important lesson taken from the video would be that, Mother Nature is very unpredictable. You can learn, you can watch, and you can prepare yourself the best with all the safety gear you want. Just remember one thing, Mother Nature always has an ace up her sleeve to trump you.

Know your surroundings, know the weather, rather jump on the beach.
This can be a dangerous sport, but when you use common sense and remember to err on the side of caution and live to fly another day, you can go out, have a few nice jumps and go home fine.

In all sports there are apparent risk, this is just one of ours.

MDK - 11-2-2013 at 03:13 PM

Quote:
Quote:

I always tell people who want to jump with the kite, to climb an 10 foot step ladder to the top and jump (without a kite), if they cant or don't have the physical ability to do that then they have no business kite jumping


interesting advice.

So....

I wonder if Generotti has jumped.... or plans to jump:puzzled:


Jumping while flying static is very tempting (guilty) and what I have seen is that people sometimes forget to think about their limitations and that statement simply makes them stop and think. there was a time where I could jump from 10 feet and be fine, not anymore and that is why I try not to give in to temptation. I don't mean to actually jump from a ladder, people typically know their limitations, some times they just need something to make them stop and think. does that clear it up? :) as clear as mud I guess :)

Bigbear97e - 11-2-2013 at 03:34 PM

Seems the guy in the Vid subscribes to Cheezy's life rule #4

WELDNGOD - 11-2-2013 at 06:58 PM

JUMPING W/NO LANDING GEAR (ATB) = BROKEN

generotti - 11-2-2013 at 08:07 PM

I have jumped a little bit in the past but it's not really my thing. I have a ATB that I usually fly with but my skills aren't all there yet haha

Bladerunner - 12-2-2013 at 07:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by generotti
I have jumped a little bit in the past but it's not really my thing. I have a ATB that I usually fly with but my skills aren't all there yet haha


This is the right time to ask questions. Before you buy the kite that can kill you.

This could have happened to some degree with any kite. It could also happen when jumping on ATB.

The kite is a 5m Ace . A knock off of the widowmaker. Too small for jumping and prone to collaps. IMHO

The only time something like this has happened to me I had a 10.8 kite and managed to ride it out thanks to having a good canopy above me.

Flysurfer say in their manual that if this happens relax and trust that you have a paraglider but they don't sell 5m kites.

pbc - 12-2-2013 at 08:59 PM

How to prevent it? Talk to people that jump 'cause they know how. Talk to people that don't jump because they'll tell you why those other guys are nuts.

Jumping has a strange appeal. People ask me about it almost as much as they ask that other question**. It pains me to answer it because I fear their motivations. The last thing I want to do is discourage someone from kiting but I want to discourage these folks, because I fear I will see them featured infamously in a youtube video some day.

It pains me also because I have friends who jump and do it well. They know their stuff, go big, and stay safe. I feel like I am saying they are dumb when I scare people away from kite jumping. Truth is some of the jumpers--the ones that consistently walk off the field--are very smart and very experienced.

And please no one jump to the erroneous conclusion that jumping will make you an awesome flyer. It is diversity of experience that makes an awesome flier. Jumping is but one facet in that infinite diversity. Jumping wil make you a better flier, but you better be a damn good one before you start jumping. Otherwise you'll be cripple before you achieve greatness.

Philip

**"How much does that cost?"

p8ntballsk8r - 11-3-2013 at 05:38 PM

I'm surprised there is not more info on what to do when you're in that "OMG I'm way too high" moment. Early in my kiting career I was showing my friend my kite for the first time. I found out my limitations that day when I jumped with a 12m kite on a 30 knot wind. I felt like I was 25 feet up (probably less of course because of my perspective and what not). As I came down for the landing, I did what logically made sense. I put the kite and 12 and pulled in the bar to increase lift. As I approached the ground I had my knees just slightly bent and prepared to relax them upon impact. Once My legs hit, I fell to the side and allowed my thigh, then him, then torso to hit the ground. I spread the impact out over as much of my body and over as much time as I could. My kite when looping and picked up and threw my twice before I could react and pull the safety. Overall I know that I was lucky. What else can be done with the kite to protect yourself on descent?

Watching the tophat video I'm wondering if he could have looped the kite a few times to bring him out over the water, how else can we soften the landing when you find yourself uncomfortably high, or out of control with your board/legs no longer under you?