Power Kite Forum

Where do I attach the Leash?

Proletariat - 1-12-2012 at 06:40 PM

Hiya,
More newbie LEI questions. I have a chicken loop with a chicken finger (Donkey Dick?), and one of the new HQ harnesses. Where the hell am I supposed to attach the leash?

If I attach it to one side of the bar, I can't spin the bar to unwrap it. But if I hook it directly to the chicken loop, I don't really see what benefit that provides... it's still the same distance from loop to bar with or without the leash.

Can someone please give me some guidance? I'm not really even sure if I'm using the chicken finger right. I just put the loop on the hook and then put the chicken finger through the hole in the front of the loop.

Thanks, and sorry for the noobness :)

Snake - 1-12-2012 at 06:47 PM

Pictures would be helpful. There are so many different bars and leash systems, and we don't know which one you have.

Proletariat - 1-12-2012 at 06:50 PM

Good point. Lemme see if I can scare some up.

shortlineflyer - 1-12-2012 at 06:51 PM

thats the problem with lots of bars when they are combined with a leash. I plan to put a new loop on my slingshot bar because I cant spin the bar easily due to a leash.
check out the airrush smart bar chicken loop or north kites chicken loop

Proletariat - 1-12-2012 at 06:54 PM

Here is my bar:


Here's my harness:


and here's my leash:


Thanks!
-dave

Snake - 1-12-2012 at 07:16 PM

I think you may be using the leash wrong. The leash is used the to keep your kite blowing away when you activate the safety. It sounds like you are using it to keep the bar closer to you. Also the chicken finger is used to prevent you from becoming unhooked. First you hook in, then you stick the chicken finger through the hole in the hook. This traps the chicken loop between the top of the hook and the finger.

Proletariat - 1-12-2012 at 07:56 PM

Hiya Snake,
Yeah, that's how I'm using the chicken finger, so that's good.

The guy I bought the kite from told me I could either attach the leash to the metal ring on the chicken loop, or alternatively connect it to the metal ring on one side of the bar (which would then spiral the kite to the ground if I release the chicken loop.)

I just don't like not being able to spin the bar, so I wasn't sure if I was doing it wrong, or if there was a better way to do it.

Snake - 1-12-2012 at 08:47 PM

Where is the metal ring on the chicken loop? Will it depower the the kite if you activate the safety?

van - 1-12-2012 at 09:25 PM

Attach it to the ring on the side ( brake lines). That way it will flag when you pull your safety. This bar is not designed so you can spin the bar and use the leash. You can choose between safety and convenience. Can't have both with this bar.

The ring on the chicken loop is for unhooked riding ( experience kiteboarder), it will not flag your kite. It's just so you don't lose your kite when you let go of the bar , unhooked. Most kite will have 90% power when the leashed is hooked in this way.

Snake - 1-12-2012 at 10:15 PM

Thats what I was thinking van. I have seen bars where a 5th line it attached to the chicken loop and it flags the kite on that. I was fairly sure it wasn't but thought maybe it was a frankenbar with the 5th line attatched to another line.

You could have a spinning leash setup with the leash attached to the end of the bar. I have my leash attached to the end of the bar and it works really well. You need the black thing on the spreader bar shown in link:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=23832

van - 2-12-2012 at 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Thats what I was thinking van. I have seen bars where a 5th line it attached to the chicken loop and it flags the kite on that. I was fairly sure it wasn't but thought maybe it was a frankenbar with the 5th line attatched to another line.

You could have a spinning leash setup with the leash attached to the end of the bar. I have my leash attached to the end of the bar and it works really well. You need the black thing on the spreader bar shown in link:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=23832



I have a best bar also and it's setup for a 4 line kite. You will need one of those spinning thing that Snake mentioned or you can change out the chicken loop to the type where the chicken loop remains behind when you release. There will be a ring on the loop that spins that you can attach your leash too. My PL 07 bar is setup this way.

Bladerunner - 2-12-2012 at 01:39 PM

4 line kites go to safety 1 of 3 ways. I can't see what one applies and just maybe Waroos different ?

When you pull the red release at your CL it will allow the bar to run away . If you are flagging on one line then there will be an attachment ring on that line for your safety leash . it could be a single front or back line depending on how it is set. The bar should run free up that line ( a stopper at full flag length stops the bar from shooting too far up the flag line. optional ) and the kite will flag out.

Connect thhe red end of your safety leash to your handle pass loop around the back of your harness. If it is too short then it looks like you have an attachment point just below your spreader hook ? Pull the red knob on your safety leash to fully release yourself from the kite.


A more complicated method sees your leash attaching to a centre point of a ( landing ) strap connecting your 2 back lines. This is not what you have.


Once you have it all figured out be sure and actaully do some safety releases . Knowing where and how to pull your safety without thinking is important.

If that bar is like this bar http://media.bestkiteboarding.com/manuals/08_BEST_BAR_manual...

It is for an SLE and you will have to modify it to flag?

Proletariat - 3-12-2012 at 02:17 PM

Hiya guys,
So I was out flying the last couple of days and I learned a lot. Originally had my leash backwards (duh) so I wouldn't have been able to reach it anyway. I talked to a guy at the park and he told me basically what you guys are telling me. The leash goes from the handle pass loop to the right (or left) "oh #@%$#! handle," which is a velcro loop attached to the brake (rear) lines.

The chicken loop metal ring is right on the side of the chicken loop, and it's attached. I think it's just there in case you pull the red loop safety release on the chicken loop, but you don't want that chicken loop to get sucked up into the bar and having the kite go full power. That's more like an "un-safety" release :) Anyway, so I think you're all right that if I did it that way, it'd be the same as just letting go of the bar, which works a lot of the time, but not in an emergency (at least, that's what I started to realize yesterday).

Anyway, so I said goodbye to the awesome spinning bar solution and just hooked it up on the right loop, then I practiced a few releases, just to be safe.... lots of tangle. I didn't actually practice leash releases because I didn't want to chase my kite, but I know how it works and know where it is, so maybe I do some dry runs later.

Van: I'll definitely look into that solution. Any suggestions on brand?
Snake: So you bought that Venom? And your leash connection (black thing) just spins on the hook? I shall also investigate this.

That handle-spinning sure makes life a lot easier when you're not quite ready to kite loop in heavy winds :)

thanks, all, for the help! I think I'm finally almost close to being moderately near approaching the proximity of safety. I took a fall yesterday and whacked my head on the ground (Bern makes great helmets, btw), but just letting go of the bar gave me like 75% depower (a few feet of drag there). If the wind were stronger I definitely would have had to flag out.

Snake - 3-12-2012 at 05:13 PM

Yes, I bought that Venom. The black part is fixed to the spreader bar and there is a metal ring inside of of it that spins.

I actually had to use the flagout yesterday in an emergency. I was static jumping and got bored so I decided to do a 360 in the air. After about 10 attempts I was getting the spin but falling on the landing. I tried again but had the kite to low and didn't get the height. I landed with all my weight on my right foot and felt a sharp pain. I on a line and the kite went into a death spin. I flagged the kite and it gently floated to the ground. My foot is in bad shape though. I broke the 3rd bone between my ankle and toes and may have broke the 1st bone in the same place as well. I'm going to a foot specialist tomarrow to see how bad my foot really is.

van - 3-12-2012 at 05:16 PM

You have 2 options:

1) replace your chicken loop with one that has a spinning attachment. Peter Lynn 07 bars comes this way. A few others out there also has this feature. I don't have any names or models on the top of my head but I have seen them.

This is how my 07 bar is setup. Leash attached to outside line then velcros toward the center line and down to spinning ring on chicken loop. You will need chicken loop, red safety hat, and depower line to do the upgrade.


2) replace your spread bar with a spinning leash attachment. This method is good for you since you can keep your bar as is. Everytime you spin your bar, your leash wraps around your chicken loop since it's attached to outside line. Newer system has the safety line thru the center of bar. With this spreader, your attachment on the spreader can rotate, you can just spin your leash back out. The one pictured here is made by Naish, part of their UDS.

Snake - 3-12-2012 at 05:38 PM

The black thing on my spreader bar is like option #2 van posted above except it is removeable.

zalex820 - 2-2-2013 at 12:33 AM

Hey I'm a newb at this stuff to and I'm sorry for maybe making a dumb suggestion but you never know. Maybe it would make sense to attach the safety line to the chicken loop release handle? Don't know if it would be good but sounds like it might work. But then again it wouldn't flag out. Idk just an idea

RedSky - 2-2-2013 at 01:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Proletariat
Hiya,
More newbie LEI questions. I have a chicken loop with a chicken finger (Donkey Dick?), and one of the new HQ harnesses. Where the hell am I supposed to attach the leash?

If I attach it to one side of the bar, I can't spin the bar to unwrap it. But if I hook it directly to the chicken loop, I don't really see what benefit that provides... it's still the same distance from loop to bar with or without the leash.

Can someone please give me some guidance? I'm not really even sure if I'm using the chicken finger right. I just put the loop on the hook and then put the chicken finger through the hole in the front of the loop.

Thanks, and sorry for the noobness :)


Going by the picture you supplied, I see you have a red chicken loop grasp handle on the loop. That's your safety.

You can hook the leash to the Donkey Dick T-bar or if there's a ring use that instead. When you pull this little red handle the loop will open and detach itself from your harness and the kite will flag out on the leash.

Connect the other end of the leash to your harness hook.

Keep the push away secondary safety on the leash closest to you but don't use it unless you are in mortal danger, because you'll loose the kite downwind.

RedSky - 2-2-2013 at 01:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zalex820
Hey I'm a newb at this stuff to and I'm sorry for maybe making a dumb suggestion but you never know. Maybe it would make sense to attach the safety line to the chicken loop release handle? Don't know if it would be good but sounds like it might work. But then again it wouldn't flag out. Idk just an idea


You can do this, but you might find that the weight of a wet leash being dragged through water might pull on the handle and activate the safety. I suggest hooking the leash to the T-bar or ring on the chicken loop instead.

RedSky - 2-2-2013 at 02:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Proletariat
Hiya guys,
So I was out flying the last couple of days and I learned a lot. Originally had my leash backwards (duh) so I wouldn't have been able to reach it anyway. I talked to a guy at the park and he told me basically what you guys are telling me. The leash goes from the handle pass loop to the right (or left) "oh #@%$#! handle," which is a velcro loop attached to the brake (rear) lines.


Personally I would use this method.

Firstly using the handle pass leash ring as an anchor point to attach the leash can twist your body if you activate the safety in heavy wind. It's also a relatively slow way to kill the residual power in the kite.
You don't want to use the body twisting harness method on a landboard or buggy.

Secondly, attaching the leash to the oh-#@%$#!e handle is going to seriously get in your way and even risk bar tangles and accidental release of the velcro handle (death loop) worst of all the kite will do one or two powerful death loops before hitting the water before flagging out.

Combine the body-twist with powerful death loops and you see what I mean.

The oh-#@%$#!e handles are used for leashless riding. Old-Skool.

Proletariat - 4-2-2013 at 09:57 PM

Hi,
Thanks for all the great information, everyone. It's really helpful. I think I have the Waroo bar sorted out (see pic below and please comment if I'm wrong), but the Guerilla bar has me a little concerned. Here are some pics of my setup on the Guerilla bar (not actually a PL bar, I think, just something someone put together):

18m Guerilla Bar:
General Setup:


Detail of the Ring / Safety Config:


Then here is the Waroo bar (minus CL, which Van is fixing for me... thanks Van!).


And last, here is my HQ harness setup. I recently started attaching the leash to this nylon strap because it seems like a good place, but lemme know if I should be attaching elsewhere (my leash doesn't really reach the handle pass line on either bar).



Any tips are sure helpful and welcome.
Thanks!

Smeagol - 4-2-2013 at 10:51 PM

Hmm, yeah that Guerilla bar was definitely interesting. ;)

Did you check out the Guerilla bar section here? http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

I thought that looked like the same bar, but it was hard to tell from the small photo.

Oh BTW your 2nd pic is pretty small & hard to read the text, you might want to link the full size images.

-Mike

van - 4-2-2013 at 10:56 PM

Looks like your Guerilla bar is setup to flag off one of the middle line. One end of leash goes to ring on power line and the other end to a nice sturdy ring on your harness.

If you want the setup to be similar to your Waroo setup, just move the rings over to one of your brake lines. Arcs are much more flexible on which line you flag with while most LEI only flag off the brake lines. Certain kites like the Cabrinha Switchblade flag off the power lines.

Proletariat - 4-2-2013 at 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Smeagol
Hmm, yeah that Guerilla bar was definitely interesting. ;)


Yup :). Maybe I should just call the guy? I mean, his name and phone # are written in big letters on the kite. :) It works okay, but I'm skeptical about my ability to judge if it's safe enough to fly as is.

Quote:
Did you check out the Guerilla bar section here? http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm


I had looked at it, but now is a good time to look again since I have some hours on the kite and understand a little better. Thanks for the reminder!

Quote:
Oh BTW your 2nd pic is pretty small & hard to read the text, you might want to link the full size images.

Yeah, for some reason PKF keeps resizing them regardless of what size I upload (both Flickr and Picasa). Here are links to the actual pics with readable notes.

Overview of Guerilla Bar

Detail of Ring Safety System (Center Line)

Waroo Bar OSR Safety

Harness Detail and Leash Attachment Points

And Van, that's good to know about the Arc being able to flag on either line. I may test out the safety on the rear line (on a low wind day) for simplicity and consistency. Other than this one question, though, the bar is great. Carbon, big, light, smooth, etc.