Power Kite Forum

Why no flotation devices?

pongnut - 17-10-2012 at 07:41 AM

Something that's been buggin' me for while - I grew up being taught that anytime you’re out doing water sports to wear a life vest of some sort. Why do so many kiteboarders seem to be out there ripping it up without any floatation? Are they just too "cool" to wear anything? Is it because the harness interferes with a vest?

I hardly ever see jet-skiers, boaters, water skiers, etc. without a vest of some sort.

erratic winds - 17-10-2012 at 08:12 AM

For kiters in saltwater, the harness is often enough flotation device for many. I don't have any good excuse for freshwater riders.

van - 17-10-2012 at 08:37 AM

I wear a kitesurfing floatation vest when I ride. Not only does it helps with floatation , it helps with impacts to the water or sand ( when I'm too close to shore). Most people don't wear them because they say you look like a newbie. I rather be a live newbie than dead pro. Its your choice. And yes, the harness has alot of floatation also but not enough to keep your head out of water.

tridude - 17-10-2012 at 11:43 AM

yes Im too cool.....................buoyancy is built into my harness

joedy - 17-10-2012 at 03:26 PM

It depends on the location. At kite place ("point"?) near Hatteras on the sound side, the water is rarely deeper than 4 feet for a very long, long way from the shore. Since you can stand up in most of the locations, having a floatation device seems counterproductive.

-joedy

Call me a geek then...

crazyherb - 17-10-2012 at 03:48 PM

Full wetsuit with hood, booties, and a Dakine Surface vest...for me..anyway. Maybe overkill and not as "pretty" as the other riders..but I'm floaty!!

shaggs2riches - 17-10-2012 at 04:49 PM

I questioned this a long time in the past. I was never cool so why start now? I wear a Neil Pryde high hook floatation aid. Not that I've been successful on the water yet, but I will happen. I just think that sure I can swim, but not as much if I get hurt, or get knocked out for any reason. Each to his own however.

Kamikuza - 17-10-2012 at 07:28 PM

Cos none of them will fit? :(

stetson05 - 17-10-2012 at 10:21 PM

I wear one every time. It has helped as an impact vest and provides reliable rest during a swim it. Working in ER I just can't ignore the risk. This is a personal choice for me and I don't think any less of those that don't wear one. At my skill level, wearing one is still the best choice.

Mostly Harmless - 18-10-2012 at 03:39 AM

I don't wear one because it's too restrictive. I know I am bit of an idiot to say that, specially since I almost drowned once before while kiting, but at my current level I need to be able to move my body around. But recently if I know that I am going to be trying a lot of new tricks I will put on a helmet.

I will agree that wearing one is always a good idea, specially if you are kiting alone.

lives2fly - 18-10-2012 at 03:41 AM

I am wearing an old kayaking one while learning as i'm still spending a fair amount of time in the water though this is getting less and less per session.

Not sure if I will continue to wear one once I get more competent. The reason being that a 5/4 wetsuit gives you plenty of floatation anyway. I'm pretty sure I will though

I think I would need to get a kite specific one as the kayak one is quite bulky though it doesn't really get in the way - It also helps keep me warm which is getting more and more important as the water temp is down to 11 Celcius now and air temp is in single digits.

Like all safety gear if you can get something that is comfortable you are more inclined to wear it

mdpminc - 18-10-2012 at 06:30 AM

On water (fresh water); helmet and kitesurfing specific vest always !, even in ankle deep flat water.
In area close to major marinas, CG (coast guard) hangs around, so you could get fined for not wearing one.

On frozen lakes; helmet and vest early winter and late winter when ice thickness is questionable
On land ; helmet, knee and elbow pads always

I make a living with my head (or whats inside of it) so I am protecting it :-)
Recovery time from injuries after 40 is also much longer than in my mid 20's

In the end it is a personal choice !

BeamerBob - 18-10-2012 at 11:08 AM

In saltwater it's just not necessary for me. The buoyancy of the saltwater and harness are plenty. I roll around in the water enough to have tested this theory. I had a kitemare this summer and floated along the shore for maybe 2 miles and swam in at least a quarter mile with no vest. My younger son was beside himself the whole time but I was never in danger and even came in with the kite. In freshwater, no way I would be without my kayak vest. Very buoyant and stays out of the way.

Kober - 18-10-2012 at 06:37 PM

I use Dakine impact vest that give me plenty of flotation .... I am not a good swimmer so I will never ride without it ...
One session with my X19 ended up with me swimming to the shore for 1/2 hour dragging kite full of water behind me ... I would never do that without my vest ...
When drooping from hight it will absorb lots of impact and minimize pain ...
I will never need it if I have kite in air .... problems starts if you drop kite and there is no wind to relaunch it ... Try to deal with that for 1/2 hour.... and if unsuccessful try to go back to the shore if you use close cell foil kite ..... Thats why I prefer to use pump ups ... it helps to del rescue a lot ...

Jaymz - 18-10-2012 at 09:00 PM

I would only wear a vest if the area was over chest deep. After an "issue" over the summer in Assateague, I will always wear one now.
I asked a local kiter about the area. Was told it's pretty much all shallow. WRONG. Was about 1/4 mile from shore in the middle of the bay and crashed leaving my board 30' upwind. Wind blowing one direction and tide ripping the opposite, I spent 30 minutes body dragging and wasn't gaining ground. It was hard to keep my head up to see the board and got a few gulps of water fighting the knee to waist high chop. Miserable. Vest would of helped ALOT.
Finally gave up and body dragged to shore. Spent.
The next morning I kayaked the downwind shoreline without a find. As soon as I got back to the truck, the phone rings and a fisherman found the board....UPWIND.

tridude - 21-10-2012 at 06:43 AM

No, I am cool, really................

PistolPete - 11-4-2013 at 09:40 PM

No, really, this is cool

indigo_wolf - 12-4-2013 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pongnut
I hardly ever see jet-skiers, boaters, water skiers, etc. without a vest of some sort.


Jet-Skis and boats of all flavors are considered to be "vessels" or "wessels' (if your name is Pavel Chekov @1:29).



Hence, they are governed by the USCG rules for flotation devices.

Water-skiers are seen as an extension of their towing boats and fall under the rules umbrella for those vessels. Due to the likelihood of injury of a jet-skier they are restricted to only using passive flotation devices that don't require inflation.

Here's where it gets fun....

The US Department of Homeland Security & US Coast Guard do consider a kiteboard a water vessel with the same requirements for flotation devices.

However, it's one of those laws/regulations that are in place but not often enforced with any real consistency. It's far enough in the nooks and crannies that a lot of USCG personnel wouldn't know that it was there to be enforced and would be more likely to go with the local status quo of what regulations had or had not been enforced in the past. As proof of that, the officer responding to the letter request (linked above) had to research the matter before responding to the inquiry.

Some random thoughts:

@Pongnut: In addition to the cool/not cool factor, flotation devices are a reminder that things can go wrong, and it's human nature to believe we are the heroes of our own lives and nothing ever truly bad happens to the hero. Anything else is just blasphemy.

Impact vests are classified as 50N flotation aids, not flotation devices. Which are ironically intended for sheltered water where help is "close at hand." The distribution of foam is pretty uniform on most of them, so there no buoyancy bias. You float how you float... face up or face down.

There's not a whole lot of clamoring for better gear, so there's not a whole lot of incentive for manufacturers to develop products that might be better but carry the marketing liability of higher final cost to the consumer.

In a perfect world, an impact vest could exceed it's 50N flotation rating using SPX, flexible syntactic foam, etc. It could be "alloyed." Using foams with similar impact characteristics, but more buoyant foam in front, less buoyant foam in back so that a disabled rider would be turned face up. Could either stay as a Class I-III flotation device or incorporate bladders for worst case scenarios as long as they could be user reset. Wouldn't think it would be impossible to do this within the constraints of cool/trendy apparel.

OK... that's enough pondering the belly button for one session.

ATB,
Sam

PistolPete - 12-4-2013 at 06:37 PM

Thanks Sam, agree with all your points, + great USCG find!








WELDNGOD - 12-4-2013 at 07:34 PM

And yes ,Tridude is COOL! LOL :thumbup:

PistolPete - 12-4-2013 at 10:42 PM

:yes:

revpaul - 13-4-2013 at 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pongnut
Something that's been buggin' me for while - I grew up being taught that anytime you’re out doing water sports to wear a life vest of some sort. Why do so many kiteboarders seem to be out there ripping it up without any floatation? Are they just too "cool" to wear anything? Is it because the harness interferes with a vest?

I hardly ever see jet-skiers, boaters, water skiers, etc. without a vest of some sort.

i wear flotation ;)
i imagine i'd have a very hard time swimming or keeping my head (mouth/nose...air intake(s)...) out of the water when i'm knocked out cold or broken badly.
people have drowned in 6 inches of water (or so I've heard).

-i was a field tech for a pipeline service company and i built/'rebuilt' in-line inspection tools. building was fine cuz everything was new and clean but rebuiling was a very dirty job (absolutely pitch black from finger tips to elbows).
after a couple years or so one fella( a customer of the day) asked me what the hell i was doing.
what do ya mean i says? well why the hell aren't you wearing gloves or anything?
i can't do this work with gloves on and besides it's just oil i says.
just oil he says...man you've really got no idea what your soaking in do ya.
he explained some things about the "oil" and it struck a chord.
anyhoo...i started wearing gloves (the big free/bulky/company provided leather palmed with cloth ones).
it was crappy at first but...eventually i could do everything and operate every any smallest of the smallest hand tools i did before.
all the other techs (there and at other jobs since) were amazed and always asked how i could do the work with the gloves.
i'd always explain why i wore them but they never chose to wear them for the same reasons i didn't at first...it's a personal choice.

Bladerunner - 13-4-2013 at 12:28 PM

My very 1st session on my own after 3 lessons went very bad !

A series of mistakes found me stuck hooked in to my static loop and Kite looping down the bay . Getting lofted and slammed with every loop. Until I managed to crash the kite. I was fortunate in so much as I chose a very shallow , very large bay.

I was not wearing any vest . Most people didn't back then. When it all stopped I had been winded repeatedly and almost knocked out. Just breathing and gathering myself was a struggle . I was very glad I could do it in a heap. If I was out over my head I still can't imagine how it would have turned out. I bought an impact vest right after that and now own 2. I think I was effected by that day and it influenced my evolution from the water.

I use the Dakine impact vest out on frozen lakes now for obvious advantages but restricted motions. I decided someplace along the line that when I wake up from being knocked out it should be on grass , sand or snow . Like I'm used to ! I am a poor excuse for a Pisces ! :smug: