Power Kite Forum

flying style(s)

bigkid - 26-4-2012 at 08:13 AM

This came up in another post and wanted to respond here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Notice how completely different fellow PKD rider Jantie holds his handle and controls his kite !

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=22014

I used to fly your style but find this to be a far superior method. Kiteguru is somebody near you who's kite handling I admire. Very similar to Jantie.



Ken, Not to worry about the remarks about your remarks. I am in no way picking on you or anyone else, but wanted to get this out for discussion. You brought up a good point for batting around.


What a lot of us don't understand is that the abilities of the guys in Europe are very different from us here in the US. This applies to most of us, with a few who figured it out. Kites, and sometimes handles are really the only common denominator. Handles, lines, strops, how they are used, and a few other things are at times, quite different.
With all your fingers below the power lines you have more hand/arm power to use the brakes. To make things even easier, they use longer handles, which gives you a finer touch of the brakes.
Stephan VanBommel flys the 3.5m Combat on the large PKD handles, I don't use the large until I get up to the 12.5m, (I am working on changing my way of flying also to there style). That said the short strop is used because they use the brakes to turn more than we do. A little power movement and a bit more brake at full out, hair on fire, mach 10. That's one of the biggest reasons they are good at what they do. Watching Stephan and Dirix Mano, and the way they use the handles when they came in to stop was very uneasy at times to watch but they both showed they can handle the kites very well.

I have been ordering handles from PKD with longer stop lines because we don't like the short strops. Well cut them, put a knot in each end and add a strop to your liking. No big deal, using the strop with a hook spreader bar will cause you to replace the it anyway.

lunchbox - 26-4-2012 at 08:52 AM

I was just thinking about this topic yesterday afternoon. I tried it and didn't like it, but to each his own. Granted, I never fly with a strop but if I do, I will try it again to see if I like it.

BTW, are you just referring to using this style when using a strop or without a strop as well?

Also, when I fly my race kites, my break lines are already relatively tight so a little flick of the wrist is all I need to bring on more power, stall the kite a little bit, down loop, etc...

Interesting to see what others comments will be.

bigkid - 26-4-2012 at 09:05 AM

lunch, it doesn't matter whether it's with or without...but it might to some.

It depends on how I feel that day as to how I fly, with a strop, with out a strop, or with out a harness, or if I fly.
Last year at SOBB, I was out one day with no harness, just me, the handles, the buggy, no harness and a new med regiment,(I felt so good I was going to go beat up a guy who hit jellis jeep,....back to topic). There was 2 days at NABX that I didn't even think of getting the kite out let along getting out of bed, but that's for the other post.:smilegrin:

WELDNGOD - 26-4-2012 at 04:35 PM

I kind of discovered it on my own,I just don't like having to hold them Horizontally. I'd rather let gravity make em hang down ,but i still use the brakes to control the kite.

bigkid - 26-4-2012 at 05:03 PM

Donnie, s
the appex buggy has the side rails that hug the legs and another benifit of that style is there is room to operate the handles a bit more. with the high side rails you need a longer strop and you have to reach to move the handles instead of using the brakes.
I use the stock PKD handles and with my QR there is room to use the power to fly and if I want to use the brake lines to fly then OK.
I think what BB was trying to say is that it is better to use the brakes to fly than the power if you are racing or trying for speed. You can fly a bigger kite and have more control when you are using the brakes to fly.

WELDNGOD - 27-4-2012 at 06:07 AM

guess I do it more than I know:embarrased: https://vimeo.com/41143474

bigkid - 27-4-2012 at 09:48 AM

Donnie,
looking at your vid reminded me of the handles that Ozzy was selling that has the power lines connected to the top of the handle, making it impossible to hold the line between your pointer and middle finger. if it wasnt Ozzy, my mistake.

BeamerBob - 27-4-2012 at 10:19 AM

As I've been flying hooked in all the time a few things of my style have changed. I used to want to unhook to turn and that technique forced me to just strop into the hook. As I've gained skills, I've ridden for hours without unhooking at all.

On handle position, I've converted over to flying with all fingers below the power line leader. This is easy to convert to if you are hooked in all the time since you don't need the power leader to pivot between your fingers. You are pivoting on the strop and all fingers below give you more leverage and power to push/pull the handles if you need to or just small brake inputs to control the kite. In light wind conditions where I'm really underpowered and fighting to keep my lines tight, I fly unhooked and leader between the fingers, like I learned to fly in the beginning.

On strop length, I tend to like a longer one but not for range of motion. I like my handles to be outside my siderails for a less cramped riding position. At speed as said before, I steer the kite almost completely with brake input. The day I went 63 mph, Brian had my 2.7m and it was set up with those 500kg lines and the strop hooked in to the handles was a length I was happy with but there were stopper knots making the effective range of "throw" only about 3" either way. 6" section of line to run through the pulley in other words. I was fine with the range of motion and the handles were comfortably out away from my body. I felt totally in control of the kite and flew with fingers below the leader the whole time.

For handle angle, I tend to hold them in "bar" position but find that if things get scary, I'll revert back to brake leaders down for a sense of security and confidence.

Edit: The handles Jeff is talking about are "XXtreme Grips". I got 2 sets of them with kites I bought from Rip. The comfort of the foam grip is second to none. I need to change out the leaders/strop since they are set up shorter than is comfortable for me.

WELDNGOD - 27-4-2012 at 06:56 PM

Wow!, I just went thru some more footage from various times of day and I'm flyin "euro" and grabbing my right leader to take the pull off my shoulderagain and again.

ripsessionkites - 27-4-2012 at 10:50 PM

im not reading anything from the above, I was just told about this post

i did a blog about this last year as well.

Grant Flying back in the day : http://vimeo.com/12609316

Richard Flying always : http://vimeo.com/12609605
(I'm on a vapor 16 in light winds, but I'm shaking the handles a little do to a tip tucking)

there is no right or wrong method, but flying under the leader line gives you more leverage to turn the kite and also control it

why do you need to feel your power lines, when all your control comes from the brake lines.


bash way, i don't care.

BeamerBob - 27-4-2012 at 11:00 PM

I flew my 5.4 vapor tonight static in almost no wind with no harness. (Did about 3 360s with it!)

That kite is on the xxtreme grips handles with no way to put a finger above the leader. It was difficult to take tension off the brake lines when flying this way and NOT stropped in. This is my only kite I would fly very much not stropped in so I need to switch some handles around.

bigkid - 28-4-2012 at 12:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ripsessionkites
im not reading anything from the above, I was just told about this post

i did a blog about this last year as well.

Grant Flying back in the day : http://vimeo.com/12609316

Richard Flying always : http://vimeo.com/12609605
(I'm on a vapor 16 in light winds, but I'm shaking the handles a little do to a tip tucking)

there is no right or wrong method, but flying under the leader line gives you more leverage to turn the kite and also control it

why do you need to feel your power lines, when all your control comes from the brake lines.


bash way, i don't care.


:puzzled:
If you would have read the post from the beginning you would have seen that it was just being talked about as another way of flying. Not right or wrong, just different.
Besides, I was in agreement with you up until you asked for a bashing. Still don't get it.:puzzled:

bobalooie57 - 28-4-2012 at 05:22 AM

Man, I've been looking at quite a few euro-racing videos, and have seen both styles, (horizontal/vertical handles) often being utilized by the same pilot in different situations, so I guess the rule is whatever works! Anyway, why is this in the WBB Forum? Wouldn't Flying tips and techniques be better? Or are you insinuating something about us east-coast flyers? :flaming: :evil: Well, you asked for a bashing!:yes:

bigkid - 28-4-2012 at 08:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bobalooie57
Man, I've been looking at quite a few euro-racing videos, and have seen both styles, (horizontal/vertical handles) often being utilized by the same pilot in different situations, so I guess the rule is whatever works! Anyway, why is this in the WBB Forum? Wouldn't Flying tips and techniques be better? Or are you insinuating something about us east-coast flyers? :flaming: :evil: Well, you asked for a bashing!:yes:

:smilegrin:the topic came up from a post that was in the WBB section and I didn't catch it. No disrespect to anyone on the East Coast, or anyone else for that mater. Just thought the topic was worth talking about, not my intention to bash anyone, just interested in what others think.
From talking to a few people that have been at this awhile, they spoke of changing there style of holding the handles and being able to fly a bigger kite than they used to. Along with shorter lines, the control is better, So they say, and I have discovered they are right, for me anyway.
And just thought I would bring it up to discuss.

Edit, If it's not something to discuss, OK with me.
I changed many things in the last couple of years in regards to Kites, doesn't make it right or wrong, but in my life (as it is :no: ) a QR was out of the question, and it was all about speed. Low and behold things change, and life is suppose to go on. So I smile and "Kite On".
I'll be out of touch for the next few hours:no:so any response from me will be indisposed.

ripsessionkites - 28-4-2012 at 10:20 AM

This post sounds more like to KK or not to KK

the best method is handles out and using the middle of the handle

You can't do that if you're not harnessed in

No harness use top line flying

Go out and fly

WELDNGOD - 2-5-2012 at 04:37 PM

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com...